Volt rateing on Lehner 5300

[poobee]

Hello guys,

How manny volts can put thru a Lehner 5300 safely?

Cheers!

[A4DTM]

NOT 14.4v

[poobee]

NOT 14.4v

awww.. what about a Lehner Basic 4200, would this be safe to run at 14.4v

Cheers! :)

[e_lm_70]

Somebody did 14.4V on a basic 4200, and he was happy ... still his ESC died.

A fully charge 4S lipo could run in no load over 68k rpm ... maybe is too much.

I think 3S Lipo is more safe !

As well a Basic 3100 and 4S is a good safe option !

e_lm_70

[poobee]

nice.. well i think ill go for a basic 5300 and 11.1v, if anyone thinks this will be unsafe please speek up. (it't for a 1/10 touring car)

thanks :D

[kufman]

Not safe. The limit is about 8 cells. Past that, the motor is get very hot no matter your gearing. a descent number to shoot for is 50,000 rpm.

[tcolesen]

It will get hot because efficiency starts to really drop off higher than 45,000RPMs. The ideal RPM of the motor is 40,000, where the motor is most efficient. The Lehner 3100 on 4s Lipo would be a very good choice (as e_lm_70 mentioned).

[poobee]

Ouch. its lucky i started this thread because i had the idea that 60,000 rpm would have been no problem, the 3100 on 4s lipo looks nice, but im thinking the 4200 with a 3s lipo would be more to my liking (46,000 rpm).

The Feigao 380S Brushless Motor 9 Turn @ 4386 rpm/v (48,684rpm @ 11.1v) looks even better with the cheep price attached. Would this be fine at 11.1v or would the 10 turn be a better option @ 3947 rpm/v (43811rpm @ 11.1v).

Would the two Feigao options i mentioned be ok at 11.1v?

Thanks for the help, much appreciated! :)

[Rtsbasic]

4200 on 3s would work well. I ran my 5300 on 14.4v a few times in my TC3 - it does get too hot to use long term, but was quite powerful. Didn't harm the motor but I only ran it like that mostly for drag racing at a local event and have ducted cooling setup in the shell to cool the electronics inc fans.

I have a 380S 9 wind that I run on 14.4v on a regular basis with no problems in my TC3, so on 11.1v it'd be good. I am overrevving mine a bit though (63K RPM no load). The 10 wind would give you better efficency but a bit less power. I run my two Feigao based motors upto 50-60K RPM on a regular basis with no problems, but your milage will vary (the other one I have is a 540 6S, but its slightly different to the normal one). Hope this helps you a bit.

[tcolesen]

The Feigao 380 10s would be the ideal motor for 3s Lipo. It would be spinning right at the most efficient spot, and would deliver good power.

[poobee]

I have a 380S 9 wind that I run on 14.4v on a regular basis with no problems in my TC3

b3racer,
what esc do you use with this setup?

[Rtsbasic]

Mtroniks Genesis Pro controller, it costs £140 or around $260. Very nice peice of kit, upto 4s lipo no problem.

[OptimaMan]

The 5300 isn't supposed to be much more than a 6-8 cell motor... Having said that, I've put 12 cells with a 12 tooth pinion in my Emaxx and it went 45 mph.. But after 5 minutes, it was pretty hot (about 200 degrees).

I got another 5300 in my T4 that I usually run with 3s lipo and occasionally 4s lipo. The 3s lipo goes 40-45 mph the way I have it geared and 4s I haven't tested mas speed yet - but it is over 50 mph. However, it has a tendency to overheat my controller.

So, my point is that the 5300 motor is a great 6-8 cell motor, but I have pushed it over 70,000 rpm before and it didn't blow up on me (yet)! Funny thing, with 6-8 cells, you'll never get their labeled 700 watts of power.

For a 1/10 TC, I'd stick with a slightly smaller motor - 380 sized. I have a Hacker C40 12s (3500 rpm/volt) that LOVES to be run at 14.8 volts. I have it geared for 50 mph and it gets there in a hurry (like 2 seconds if traction allows). You can get a Feigao 12s and adapter plate for around 70 bucks and get the same performance for 1/2 the cost. You can also try a Twist series motor - around 140 bucks. Get the Twist 37 or slower. Will work great in a TC. RPM will be close to 50,000 but you'll have way more torque (like 2 to 3 times!!!) than a 6 or 7 turn single brushed motor running on 6 cells. I have a Twist 42 (4200 kV) that I run 11.1 volts and sometimes 14.8 volts. But once again, on 14.8 volts, it thermals my U Force 75 quite often. However, with 14.8 volts, it really screams! With 11.1 volts, with my present gearing, it only goes mid 40's.

[poobee]

i seems whth the lower the turns the more rpm, so a Feigao 380S @ 6 turn should be really fast, i noticed the amp rateing was higher, so if i buy a controoler that can handle 69Amps.. would get an mgm80 or something.. at 14.4v over 90,000rpm i have a feeling this wouldnt work.

whats the lowest turn i could go, i want max rpm on 11.1v or 14.4v for a 1/10 car???

-6 turn, 6579 rpm, 69 Amps
-7 turn, 5639 rpm, 59 Amps
-8 turn, 4934 rpm, 51 Amps
-9 turn, 4386 rpm, 46 Amps

You guys have been a great help, Cheers!

[Rtsbasic]

The highest you could (safely) run on 11.1v would probably be the 8 wind. Anything less and sooner or later you risk the motor being damaged. This is still revving too fast to be very efficent though if your driving at WOT a lot.

[poobee]

The highest you could (safely) run on 11.1v would probably be the 8 wind. Anything less and sooner or later you risk the motor being damaged. This is still revving too fast to be very efficent though if your driving at WOT a lot.

Would the 8 wind be ok at 14.4v?

cheers

[Rtsbasic]

70K RPM with no load..the motor wouldn't last long so no you would need a lower wind. You could get a BK Wanderer motor that would rev that high without a problem, although its still not quite as efficent as keeping to 40-45K RPM.

[tcolesen]

Would the 8 wind be ok at 14.4v?

cheers

Just curious, have you ever run a brushless motor before? It seems like you don't know how powerful they are, even without taking them over their maximum voltage. One thing to remember is that the bearings usually have a maximum of 50,000RPMs, and so can be easily damaged above that. The problem with this is that the bearings in the Feigao motors are not at all easy to replace because of the sealed endbells.

Shooting for 40,000RPMs will keep the motor the coolest, as long as it is properly geared.

[OptimaMan]

poobee: tcolesen is absolutely correct. I don't condone over 50,000 rpm actually - just that I'm irrational and I always wanna push the cars, motors, parts to their breaking limit. Besides, somebody has to push it to the max and report it.

Highest I ever had a motor was a 1515 5 turn motor on 3s lipo with no load, it was at the Schulze controllers max RPM of over 120,000!!!! Yeah, that little motor was screaming to say the least.

For that 1/10 TC, get the C4012s or similar (around 3500 kV). Loves 11.1 volts and can handle 14.8 volts w/o dying and thermaling your controller. It'll still take it over 60 mph.

[poobee]

I have never tryed brushless, the fastest setup i have had was a 12 turn dobble brushed. I think the 8turn @ 11.1v would be nice (54,000 rpm) and i can also use my 7.2v ni-mh packs and still have 35,000rpm.

Cheers!

[SpEEdyBL]

The 8t brushless on your 7.2 volt packs will still be faster than your 12 turn! I am willing to bet that you would be fooled if I put the 8s sticker on the 10s motor and gave it to you to run on 11.1 lipo. Actually I am considering the 8s on 3s lipo for myself (for 50+ mph speeds in a xxx4). My main worry is heat if the motor exceeds 50000 rpm, so I may go 9s and gear a little higher. BTW, you can't trust kv. Lehner actually rates the feigao motors 10% lower than feigao does and hacker rates their very similar c40 motors about 5% higher than the feigaos. Who can you trust? My guess is that it depends on the load. Swami rc had a c40 8s on 12 cells. It went 60 mph but never exceeded 50000 rpm, but that was in a stampede with big heavy tires and high gearing. Actually, on only 8 cells with the same setup and lower gearing, rpm was pretty close, but speed was only in the low 40s.

[poobee]

That would be a verry safe bet, i have only been into rc's for about 3 weeks now.. so u could call me a nooob.. but its kool cuz thanks to you guys im learning lots and lots :D

i just wanna go as fast as i can on a budget, i think i have it all sorted now, for a little while there i was tempted towards buying an electric hellicoptor and using the 2 x 2500mah lipos + charger + brushless moter + 40amp speed controol that came with it $220 and i get to fly a hellicoptr.. :P

but instead im gunna go with the 8turn @ 11.1v and a TMM 8012-3s CAR esc from MGM Compro, i heard there were break problems with this esc and its since been fixed, is there a way of checking if the model im buying is the model with the fixed break problem?

[tcolesen]

The MGM controllers are all fixed now. They are also available in a "cube" form with a heatsink on top and a heatsink on bottom. Instead of wires coming out the sides, there are 3.5mm plugs. It is a much better setup than the standard airplane style shrink wrapped controller.

The 9s would be a better choice for 11.1v. The motor would last longer and wouldn't get as hot from being so far out of the best efficiency range. But I can't tell you what to do with your money, so pick whichever one you want!

[possent]

The problem with this is that the bearings in the Feigao motors are not at all easy to replace because of the sealed endbells.


Sealed = Glued

during last race I lost the endbell and bent the shaft of my plasma 4400, very similar to a Feigao 380 9s. Sent it to Mtroniks for a replacement.
Nothing to say about performance: great running 7 cells.
a little disappointed about the quality of costruction, but it's a good for the price.

i'm looking for a used Leher Basic 4200 for my controller; do anyone of you guys sell a 4200?

b3racer, do you think my genesis sport plus esc can handle a basic 5300 on 7 cells?

[poobee]

i'm looking for a used Leher Basic 4200 for my controller; do anyone of you guys sell a 4200?


I saw this on ebay, it may be of intrest to you:

Lehner basic 4200 brushless motor:
$90.00 buy price and $70 auction price.
4d 10h 35m to go!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5997565938&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

he is also selling a 5300 for the same price :D

also im looking at a Hacker Brushless Speed Controller (master car sport) rated at 60amps. would this be any good, i cant seem to find a manual for it.

[SpEEdyBL]

Poobee, one thing to take note of: The current 380 8s will not be able to mount directly into your car and will not have a heatsink. My guess is that new 380s (starluck will be stocking the 6s, 7s, 9s and 13s) will have a purple/blue heatsink (maybe similar to the c-series motors on feigaos site), which will not require an adaptor plate. Be warned that the 8s may over heat at that voltage no matter how you gear it. I am not for sure, but that's what I would expect. You can be the first test it. To say the least, you will have amazing power with lots of runtime! Let me know how it goes. And if it is the wrong motor, you can always get the 9s for $60 more.

[Rtsbasic]

possent, the plasma sport motor you have is exactly the same as a Feigao, and is the same motor I sometimes run on 12 cells (got one on the cheap from Mtroniks).

The ESC you have will do a 5300 on 7 cells no probs, IIRC you had it setup in a TL01B? I'd recommend running a fan ontop of the esc, but other than potential heat problems on the controller you won't have a problem! I sold my 5300 to a guy who uses the sport plus ESC in a 1/8 bike on 6 and 7 cells, he races it every week with no problem (although bikes have more air cooling to the controller).

[possent]

possent, the plasma sport motor you have is exactly the same as a Feigao, and is the same motor I sometimes run on 12 cells (got one on the cheap from Mtroniks).

The ESC you have will do a 5300 on 7 cells no probs, IIRC you had it setup in a TL01B? I'd recommend running a fan ontop of the esc, but other than potential heat problems on the controller you won't have a problem!

yes, it's a tl01b and there's a 40mm fan on the esc and a hole in the lexan body for air cooling.
i'm going to buy a 5300. thanks a lot , b3racer.

thank you poobee for your tip on ebay.

[chilledoutuk]

just thought i would let you know that i dont recomend the master car sport controller at all i got one when i bought my c40 8s about 3 years ago and it just didnt have the starting torque of modern controllers. I have a second generation master car comp and it is miles better than the old hacker controllers.
Also i have a mtroniks brushless controller which is super smooth but still has tons of torque.

[Rtsbasic]

Thats a whole 3 of us on this forum using Mtroniks brushless controllers...:) Shame they're so expensive outside the UK. Really smooth, very close to the LRP system which I've driven a few times recently. Still enough torque to flip all of my trucks onto their roofs when setup correctly.

[poobee]

hay again ppls,

just a simple question, would the Feigao 6Turn be safe @ 7.2v, 6579rpm per v (47,368rpm), im thinking this would save money on lipos, and not too high in rpms to distroy the moter.

thanks!

[Rtsbasic]

Yes it would, www.starluckrc.com are going to start stocking that motor at the weekend.

[poobee]

oh ty v much, i hope the verry good people at starluck will stock the 7wind (rated at 59 Amps), this looks like the way to go, as i plan on buying a 60Amp esc (HM-60) verry nice on my wallet.

so, any ideas what 40,000 rpm feigao brushless is equivlient to in brushed?

Cheers!

[Rtsbasic]

I think he has plans to stock the 7s very soon as well. The 7s motor would be very powerful, easily as fast as a 11-12t brushed motor but with a lot better acceleration. All depends on how you gear it. Gear low enough and 8-9 wind brushed will have trouble keeping pace on a tight track. Of course at this point its more drivers ability and traction than speed.

[SpEEdyBL]

Do not get the 7s if you plan on running 11.1 volts on it. 59 amps is the maximum safe continuous current. In other words, without heating up. On 11.1 volts it will definately draw more amps and heat up. On 7.2 volts it should be equal to a 10 turn brushed motor, easily. If you wan't to run 11.1 volts, even the 9s should outrun all turn mod motors on any track.

[poobee]

nice! well i am going to run 7.2v i may add another cell and make it 8.4 to get some more rpms, its only gunna cost $47 for the esc and $50-$60 on the moter... i think ill pass on the lipos at the moment.. and when the time comes for lipos ill get a new moter too :)

thanks alot fellas u'v all been a great help.. my car is gunna rocket.. now i just gotta get some nice wheels.. something that wont bukkel or chip/crack.. im thinking HGI LeMans Alloy Wheels.. little expencv tho.. anyways thanks agan.

:D :D

[Rtsbasic]

Don't get alloy wheels mate, they're more trouble than their worth. Get some RPM wheels, they don't chip/crack/buckle. If you manage to break them, they'll send you some new ones free. Some of them look very cool as well :)

[poobee]

Wow, Wheels that don't buckle... i gotta try these.. with my clumsy driving i alleyways seem to buckle wheels. And this send me some new ones free... that's just eriesistible! :D

[starluckrc]

6S, 7S, 9S, and 13S are in stock now. I am getting set up in our new location and getting them added to the site. Email should be up and running sometime today (starluckrc@earthlink.net).

Thanks!