Battery & Charger Questions

[renown]

I'm a nitro guy looking to get into electrics but things are starting to look pretty confusing and much more expensive than i have ever imagined. For electrics i have an RC10T3 that i got when i first got into the hobby but i really never got that technical with it, i just used some cheap 1500-1800 batteries and a low end 30$ charger. I also just got a vintage RC10 from a friend for free that im messing around with until i get my MF2.

Well anyways im looking to really get serious with electrics and i decided to go with a MF2 and a Novak brushless setup.. So now its about time to get a better understanding about batteries and chargers and decide what to go with. I really don't even know where to start i read so many different things about chargers and charging im just lost, All i here is that you need to spend a good 110-150$ if you want a decent charger so your batteries last more than 2 months.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000075818&I=LXCLD5&P=K

This is the charger i currently have for charging my NiMH packs for my nitro trucks, will this charger work or what? I am probly going to be using GP 3300s and i don't want my charger to ruin my batteries in 2 months. I'm guessing this charger is not going to work so if not can someone explain to me why this charger wont work? Also why do some of these high end chargers need a power supply? What do power supplies exactly do and how come cheaper chargers don't need them. I heard alot of good things about the DuraTrax Ice Competition Charger and i will probly go with that charger if mine is not good enough, what is a good cheap power supply for this charger. Do i need a high end power supply too or does it not matter all that much.

Also does anyone recommend going with lipos, i don't know all that much about charging and batteries so would it be worth the hassle/risk.

[SS Pede]

That charger you have will work just fine with GP3300's. However, it only charges at 3 amps max when its on AC power (plugged into the wall). That's a bit lower charge rate than most people use...kind of inconvenient as far as time goes. It will take over an hour to charge GP3300's at 3 amps. HOWEVER, that charger of yours will charge at 5 amps on DC power. So instead of getting an ICE, you could buy a 12V DC power supply and hook up your current charger to it. That would be less expensive than an ICE (which also needs a separate PS). By the way, DC power from a regulated power supply is "cleaner" than AC, so it's the preferred way to go...especially for high-end chargers.

So you need a power supply so you can charge at the full 5 amps. I have a Radio Shack 15 amp PS that costs about $70. You don't have to spend that much, but I'm not sure where to find the best price so you'll just have to look around for different brands.

[renown]

Hmm so really the only thing power supplies are for is so that you can charge at higher amps aside the benefits of cleaner power. So 5 amps is the max most people charge at, How long does it take to charge a GP3300 at 5 amps?

So the Ice is no better than my charger for flat out charging a battery as long as i get a power supply? I know there are tons of useful features that ICE has but im talken about a flat out charge, the ICE will not provide any better quality charge than my charger correct?

Also my friend uses some cheap 30$ 15 min quick charger and im picken up a couple of them gp 3300 batteries from radio shack this weekend and going to Gaylord with him and racing my vintage RC10.. How many times should i charge them GP3300s with a cheap 15 min charger to get a full charge because it doesn't tell you when they are full. Will it ruin the batteries or anything, not that i really care they are just some cheap 25$ batteries im picking up to mess around with my old vintage RC10 until i get my new truck and charger/batteries.

I think i may buy a ICE charger anyways because im considering selling off my nitro stuff, what are some of the good features ICE has.

Whats AC and DC stand for, i thought DC stands for discharge? Whats the difference between AC and DC power? Whats the difference between a pulse charger and a peak charger?

Sorry for all the questions i just cant stand being clueless about something im interested in.

Thanks guys!

[renown]

Anyone? I also picked up a couple GP3300s from radio shack.

[Duster_360]

I started with a Piranha digital charger too and noticed when I was charging at 3a on 120v, I had probs with it false peaking. I started using a separate DC power supply and the false peaks went away even at 5amp. The built in power supply in the Piranha (like a lot of others) is prob a little lacking at high charge rates. A little voltage variation is all it takes to set off a false peak.

AC stands for alternating current - its what comes out of the wall socket. DC is direct current - its what you get out of a batt.

I've since bought an ICE and use it now about 99% of the time. It has a discharge feature the Piranha totally lacks that will let you condition a batt thru cycling. I get busy at work and can't run every month, so I cycle batts to keep them fresh. Would have to have separate discharger to be able to do that with Piranha. Only one of many added features of the ICE. But yes, I don't think there is anything diff about 5amp charge rate from a Piranha or an ICE from a batts prespective. Current is current.

Fguring charging time roughly -3300milliamp-hours / 5000 milliamps charge rate = 0.66hrs or 39.6min ~ 40min. Note that 5000milliamps is 5amps. This assumes no batt internal resistance and the batt has absolutely 0mah stored in it when you start (which it doesn't, it will have some charge left and they all have some internal resistiance).

[renown]

Alright cool thanks for the info, also is it safe to charge at anything higher than 5 amps if i got the ICE?

Oh yea and what is the difference between a matched battery and a regular one?

Does anything think it would be a good idea for me to go with Lipos not having much battery knowledge or nothing. Is the risk of them things catching on fire pretty high if you don't know what your doing?

[SS Pede]

Alright cool thanks for the info, also is it safe to charge at anything higher than 5 amps if i got the ICE?

Oh yea and what is the difference between a matched battery and a regular one?

Does anything think it would be a good idea for me to go with Lipos not having much battery knowledge or nothing. Is the risk of them things catching on fire pretty high if you don't know what your doing?
Yes, it's safe to charge at higher than 5 amps. It just puts more wear and tear on the cells. Higher charge rate generally gives you a bit more power and a bit less run time. Racers like to charge at more than 5 amps to get a little extra boost.

A matched pack has all the cells in it matched up according to their performance numbers. They all have about the same voltage and the same internal resistance. Matched packs perform a little better than unmatched ones, but they are more expensive. They also become unmatched eventually (I'm not sure how long it takes) unless you invest in a special discharger that can discharge each cell individually. Matched packs are most useful for racers. For bashing, they aren't as important.

Ask a Lipo guy about Lipo details. They aren't overly dangerous if you're careful, and the performance increase is significant. They're just expensive and require a little more care.

[renown]

Hmm so really theres no point in getting matched cells if im not racing? Also how much longer runtime does side by side cells give over normal built cells (whatever you call them), is it a dramatic difference or is it really not a big deal?

Cause i bought myself a couple GP3300s from radio shack and they are very nice i was getting like 15 min run times driving WOT with a brushed setup. Is it really worth the extra 20$ to get side by side matched GP3300s over the 25$ radio shack GP3300s if im just a basher? I mean i race but not that much i will race here and there for fun.

Also i am just running normal plugs, what are the advantages of running say Deans plugs? What do they do that any other plug can't?

[SS Pede]

Hmm so really theres no point in getting matched cells if im not racing? Also how much longer runtime does side by side cells give over normal built cells (whatever you call them), is it a dramatic difference or is it really not a big deal?

Cause i bought myself a couple GP3300s from radio shack and they are very nice i was getting like 15 min run times driving WOT with a brushed setup. Is it really worth the extra 20$ to get side by side matched GP3300s over the 25$ radio shack GP3300s if im just a basher? I mean i race but not that much i will race here and there for fun.

Also i am just running normal plugs, what are the advantages of running say Deans plugs? What do they do that any other plug can't?
You could get matched cells/packs and buy a "tray" type discharger if you wanted the best possible performance out of your batteries. So there is a slight "point" in getting matched cells for bashing, but it's simply not a huge difference and not necessarily worth the money/effort if you're not racing competetively.

In side by side packs, the cells are connected by nice "battery bars" that conduct current better than the connections in stick packs. Run time might be a little better, and the power might be a little better, but no, it's not a big difference. It's more critical if you race a lot and you need to go as fast as possible.

I think you made a great choice with those Radio Shack packs you bought. Sure, they are not the best packs in the world if you want to race a lot, but GP3300's in general are very good cells. My 2 current good packs are GP3300 stick packs. I think my next pack will by a side by side IB3800 pack, but this is more for the runtime than anything. I am considering buying a Radio Shack GP3300 pack because they are great cells and those packs are cheap! I'm just a basher, by the way.

Have fun with those GP3300's! They are great batteries and they'll serve you well. Next time you need a pack, maybe do what I plan on doing and buy a slightly nicer side by side pack and see if you notice a difference! :)

About the connectors, the stock white ones (called "Tamiya" connectors) are not as efficient as Deans or Powerpoles. I used them for a while without problems on my good packs, but I switched over to Powerpoles (you can find them at Tower Hobbies and many other places). There are horror stories of Tamiya connectors melting together and stuff. They just have a relatively high resistance and over time they'll wear out, heat up more, and rob you of power! Use them for now, but consider Deans or Powerpoles for the near-ish future, if only as a precaution.

[renown]

Yea i think i will give those powerpoles a shot, are they as good as deans though? What are u supose to connect these things to all i see is female ends for powerpoles.

Hey Pede thanks alot man you were a vary big help!

[SS Pede]

Yea i think i will give those powerpoles a shot, are they as good as deans though? What are u supose to connect these things to all i see is female ends for powerpoles.

Hey Pede thanks alot man you were a vary big help!
For all intents and purposes, Powerpoles are as good as Deans. I believe the difference in resistance between Deans and Powerpoles is a thousandth of an ohm (Deans being every so slightly more efficient). This difference is, to put it lightly, not very big. I chose Powerpoles because I heard they can be easier to solder than Deans (no shrink wrap required, because the plastic housings cover any exposed wire), and easier to pull apart. Plenty of people like Deans though.

Powerpoles are "genderless." You don't have to worry about male and female ends. They all fit together. Just make sure all the blacks and the reds line up! :)

-SS

[renown]

Hey umm i forgot to ask, what does zapped mean? Does it make a big difference in run time and performance?

[SS Pede]

"Zapping" (I think there are other names for it too) is a process that battery matching companies use to boost the voltage of their cells. It tends to make a pack a bit more powerful...I don't think you'd notice the effect on run time. It'll make your packs better but again, if you're not racing you don't have to worry about it.

[tadium54]

if you have an older pack, it will give it a bit more life, but if its a newer pack, i'd say don't bother

[highroller]

Chargers will vary in price depending on features they have or don't have.
Reseach the different brands comparing price and features to what type of things you will needing. Normally a 5 or 6 amp charge rate is used in racing.
Research Duratrax, Futaba, Novak, Tekin, LRP (Associated), Integy, Orion, Competition Electronics etc.
Batteries: most racers are going with the higher capacity cells, IB3600, IB3800 and GP3700 then GP3300 would still be a good choice as prices are going lower even for matched cells with the introduction of the newer cells.
Read some of the care and maintance facts posted on some of these sites: SMC Racing, Pro Match Batteries, Hyperform Racing and a few others.
I hard wire all my racing vehicles, unless track does not have AC power then I used the Sermos (power pole) connectors which can be bought in 1pr up to 50 pairs. Only downside to using them is if motor spray gets on the plastic housing it becomes brittle, when using 12 or some 14 gauge wire you will have to cut off some of the wire strands for it to fit in the metal connector.
Invest in some other items to properly maintain your packs if you are trying to be on a competitive level discharge can be just a string of lightbulbs and a tray (equalizing) that will discharge each individual cell in the pack. A single lightbulb or discharge resistor can be used but doesn't quarantee the cells are properly discharged to the proper voltage levels but will do okay if finances are an issue.
If you are starting out, go the less expensive route first matched stick packs should suffice for awhile or you can disassemble them and build side by side packs later. The homemade bulb discharged is easy to build and cheap but you should buy a cutoff device (Racers Edge) to stop the discharge once pack reaches a certain voltage level (can be used with 4-7 cells). Equalizing trays (integy, novak, trinity) or pack equaliziers are a good investment in that it removes the remaining voltage from the cells. The provides several benefits when pack is charge each time after equalizing the cells charge close to the same voltage levels. performance remains the same, runtime remains good plus with NiMh the incidence of false peaks in reduced - but as cells degrade there is still some false peaking problems if cells become unmatched.