MGM 160/24 Programming Book of Q's

[danhfvcsd]

Hey all - hoping i can get some advice or tips or anything i can get! -lol- Got 3 problems here - hoping u guys are feeling merry and helpful! -lol-

#1
I am having some problems trying to program my ESC. It is an MGM-Compro 160/24 Plane ESC, but i am running it in a converted Team Losi LST, with 18 nimh cells and a lehner 2230 11 wind motor. I am using mechanical brakes, and a Futaba 3PM-FM 'Megatech' radio.

I have had the thought that the ESC may need a "Stick" radio to be used instead of the pistol grip radio? I am hoping i don't need to change from my pistol grip radio to a stick radio - if that's the case, i'll need to buy another controller to substitute, as i hate sticks for land vehicles -lol-

I've tried all my different throttle trim settings, but can only get one outcome, or the other... If i leave the TX alone, and plug in the batteries, it will just sit there and beep at me - i feel it is the "0.25 second delay" beeps.

*i am getting either of the following two 'outcomes'...

a) (with no throttle pressed) series of beeps (have a feeling it's the 0.25 delay constant beeps) OR

b)(with no throttle pressed) 2 beeps - 10 second delay - 3 beeps - bout 3 second delay - then 4 short beeps - then red LED turns off and nothing.

Usually i get 'outcome a' with the throttle trim at zero, and pressing nothing. If i change the throttle trim up to about 64 (towards brake) i get 'outcome b' - but with trim at 63 - i get 'outcome b'. Same thing with sub trim - one or the other.

Sort of as if there's no neutral or something? I've also tried ending with throttle max brake instead of leaving it sit - just do

I also get 'outcome b' with throttle pressed full the whole time...

#2
Having probs with the USB aswell.... the PC makes the lil noise (same one as when any USB device is connected) but when i connect the USBCOM - it makes a similar - but different noise - and i don't get the lil msg where i can click the bubble to install drivers for the device etc that usually comes up in the bottom right corner in windows XP. Is there a way i can manually do this?

#3
Crap - one other thing -lol- I have probs with the mechanical brake - When the TX hits Forward throttle - the ESC is forwards, but the brake servo is actually braking...when the TX hits brakes - the ESC hits brakes - but the servo lets go of brakes...

So they are swapped and reversed to one another if that makes sense.... from the RX - they're connected as this....
RX--->FailSafe--->Y-Harness--->splits to esc and mechanical brake servo.


Sorry for the encyclopedia of questions - but is there anything you fellas can do to help me out here on either of the probs i'm having? I am desperate to get this truck up and running - the wait has been too long already! -lol-

[danhfvcsd]

mannn - 40 views and no replies?

i hope u are fellas that have already seen my other posts - im desperate! spose it's pretty confusing the way it's explained tho -lmao-
From the looks of it atm tho - i might need either
a) a new ESC or
b) a new stick TX :(

while i'm here - early recommendations for a replacement ESC please just in case? -lol-

[Ventman]

First off, how did you end up getting an MGM 160/24 for a plane? Do you run a few and were hoping the controler could work double-duty?

The bad news is, most likely the controler is meant for a stick radio and would be a chore to get programmed up with a pistol-grip.

There is good news however, you can get the same controler with the car software installed at RC-Monster (http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=TMM160123sHCS01&cat=21) you'd have a much better time programming one of those with the radio you have.

[danhfvcsd]

First off, how did you end up getting an MGM 160/24 for a plane? Do you run a few and were hoping the controler could work double-duty?

Nope - It was actually recommended buy Mr Constructor, who did the conversion - i had never thought it would be a problem - just figured the ESC would know that the TX's throttle was in neutral - didn't see any other way to it kinda thing?

I can only get a 160/16 for cars, and i'm running 18 cells.... any other suggestions? :) or anyone wanna buy a 160/24 for their plane? -lmao- nahh - maybe i'll bite the bullet and grab a stick radio........................ gonna hold on those comments actually -lol-

[tcolesen]

Over on URC I suggested a spring so that you can simulate a "fully down stick" position by attaching the spring to the trigger and the area above the trigger to keep full brake/reverse on.

[danhfvcsd]

Thanks heaps tcoleson - i'll look into it later on tonight - going drifting now, and too early for me to be straining my tiny lil brain too hard -lmao-

mmk - i think i might save myself the hassles - and grab the NEW 160/24 controller for cars - it isn't listed on their website yet - but DOES exist - so might be a goer for me i think....i've just received 2 emails back from MGM (who btw replied within the first 24 hours of the first email - replying ON BOXING DAY - and then i sent em another email and they have replied again already - not bad if ya ask me -lol-)

mmmk - scrap above comment - editing half way through posting -lol-
I just also received an email back from Mr Constructor aswell....
SO - now i have a few conflicting theories - i think i had better have another look at it - i possibly have overlooked something hopefully?? I dunno - i will get back to you guys later on - just thought i better update - going rc drifting now, so will look at it later tonight -lol- If i cant get it myself - i might have a go at the new car controller -lol-

btw - thanks everyone for your input!!!!!

Here's the replies etc

***START FIRST EMAIL***
Dear Daniel,

it is no good idea using plane controller in the car. Car/boat controller is
available up to 160A nad 24 cells (on the www is 160A and 16 cells only). It
is no possible use plane controller with pistol Tx with neutral position.
See on attached manual for car/boats ESC possibilities.

Which 160/24 ESC you have? Is it Profi line or Expert ESC? Which SW version
is your 160/24 ESC?

Best regards,
Grisa


----- Original Message -----
From: <danhfvcsd@aol.com>
To: <mgm@mgm-compro.cz>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 7:43 AM
Subject: 160/24 ESC Programming Troubles!

***FINISH FIRST EMAIL***

***START SECOND EMAIL***
Dear Daniel,

TMM® 16016-3 CAR/BOAT (s)" ESC work only up to 16 cells, really.
Some modelers want car or boat controller up to 24 cell.
Therefore we started production a new ESC TMM® 16024-3 CAR/BOAT which work
up to 24 cells (8 Lipol) - it is no on www (and on the manual) yet. We will
put it on www arround half of January (together with some other news).
Dimensions is the same as 16cell/160A controller ("cube" version is
recomended). It is OPTO version without BEC.

If you have troubles with programming your plane 160/16 ESC Expert by PC,
download actual programm "controller" with actual data from our www. It is
possible you have CD (you buy it together with USBCOM module) with oldest SW
or data version then is need for your ESC.

Best regards,
Grisa


----- Original Message -----
From: <danhfvcsd@aol.com>
To: ""Ing. G. Dvorský"" <mgm@mgm-compro.cz>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: 160/24 ESC Programming Troubles!

***FINISH SECOND EMAIL***



***START MR CONSTRUCTOR***
So let´s come to the problems:

with any radio, fully trim it to neutral, any exponential out, the
trigger has to be 50/50 set, some radios have a very fine sub trim,
check this too.
The second version of beeps is the one you´re into the programming then,
(if this is done by having no throttle, then reverse the channel and
check the fine adjustments too)
I do know from myself that these esc´s tend to locate the neutral point
(even if settled to 50%50) a little in the backward section, this could
be trimmed off later, this might occur on some radios, but it is not a
bog thing, only trim it ba 5% or less and then you have the full neutral
at your mid neutral from the pistol radio.

I do use a pistol radio too, several others do use a pistol too, none of
them having any trouble, it is possible to use these esc´s with a pistol
radio.

The USB drivers have to be isntalled BEFORE the first connection will be
done, install them in the folder you prefer, i ´ll give you a manual
included in this mail, should be helpful.
then the controller needs to be connected to the usb com, then
everything into the pc, read the manual for further details, as some pc
kits might need the esc to be powered with juice from a battery pack and
are not powered from the usb port.

and as for the programming itself here are a few helpful tipps too: (see
attached pic for details)
A: normally leave the settled points, only if everything fails or the
esc isn´t useable on your radio, try to dial it in with these settings.
B: set it to 2 poles and the ratio to 1:1
C: best try to use it in basic mode, if that doesn´t fit fully your
needs go for aircraft mode
D: OK; it should be set to nimh/nicd off course, if ya run lipo and nimh
mixed set up the correct lipo mode (the nimh´s will not get fully empty,
but they´re on the safe side.
E: best: no brake, as the motor will not braked down as the tranny might
cause to fail if the motor will be breaked down too fast, if any break
must be dialed in, go for the softest you could.
F: the accleration is normally set to 0,2 sec (or around in the car
esc´s) so choose between these first values, too hard accleration might
damage the tranny, so try the 0,29 sec. setup first.
G: set it to automatic, this automatic wil be very good but in some
cases the motors will stutter at around 85 % of rpm when throttled to
full rpm, this could be solved when using the timing settings above 15°
H: a good starting point wich is safe for both lipo and nimh will be the
3,1V setting. the others will not empty the battery fully, but in some
times it´ll be better not to fully empty them, so use it as a safety
feature for not draining your batts too much
I: Is useless for us as this point normally will not be shown on the
opto esc´s

hopefully there are a few things cleared up.

a word on the programming: if you´ve entered it, the time between the
settings is unlimited !! and EACH setting will be done once, then wait
for the corresponding beeps that the esc has the right setting, then
it´ll go to the next point, the setting has nothing in common to many
other esc, they need to be pushed till throttle after having reached the
certain amount of beeps or similar, this setting is stressless, you
could easily wait and setup all paramaters you like, but best is when
you use the small table with all the para´meters shown, you could follow
the setup better and could mark up the settings you made !!

Good Luck.

Greetings from Hamburg and a happy new year !!
***END MR CONSTRUCTOR***

[danhfvcsd]

OK - so tried all that out last night - and got nowhere - i dunno what's going on! -lol-

I also tried the PC programming on another PC - got the USB working - but now it wont respond to the controller - i even went and downloaded the new USBCOM data from the MGM website - but still didn't work.

It's halfway there - i mean - it recognises the USBCOM now - but wont recongnise that the controller has been connected - this is following all directions from manual - and some of my own combinations of hooking it up. batts have been connected too - but it just doesn't recognise that it's there.... strange :?

i dunno what i'm gonna do - Mr C says it CAN be used with a pistol TX - as he or some ppl he knows uses it themselves - so it must be possible... i had a thought maybe it's the 3PM i'm running?? i've sent an email to ask which pistol radios were used with this controller...

Tried the spring trick on the throttle trigger too - didn't work either :(

Might end up just grabbing a 4ch stick radio - wanna get into planes later some stage anyways -lol- But might use the 4ch sticks for the mean time - and save for another controller that will work easily - i dunno yet... might even grab/test the radio that Mr Constructor uses on his over there...

will update when i get some more :) feel free to throw some more input - i'm so desperate! -lol-

[Mr. Constructor]

Hi Daniel,

maybe this might help ya :

get the esc to working, the neutral is set to -100 % right ???
now programm your radio like this:
the throttle way down to 50%, now make the setup to the esc, then (after thes esc has been programmed to the "wrong" 50% neutral) go into the menu of your radio and programm the trimming to -50% then you should have the neutral at the middle of the pistol and will still have the full forward throttle,
It´s like a math playing: first -50 % then dial it in, then trim the rest 50% and you´re there, the 100% forward will not be affected.
Sorry for beeing that complicated, but i never ever thought this might occur (i´ve had this on other esc´s, but not the MGM ones)

It is possible as the figures i show here might be used as a basement, try to get it done, it should show up a better (maybe not 100%) setup.
the setup might be -60 % first, dial in, then -45 % or whatsoever, it is anything in between these figures.

Hopefully it´ll function then !!

[danhfvcsd]

Thanks mate - i'll have another play and get back to you, cause i really am keen on using the pistol radio... what pistol radio/s do you use on this controller Mr C? :)

[Mr. Constructor]

I use a Multiplex Cars Master 707 Synthesized Radio.
extremely lightweight and due to high end liion cells (giving 7,4 V at 2400 mAh, the original nimh pack is 1200 mah) the running time will be around 10-12 hours !!

but the programming Options should be available on other computerized Radios too, i did not use the special modes this radio has (like servo delay options or several gas and brake servos mixed a.s.o.)

Hopefully it´ll function now !!

[aqualato1]

....with 18 nimh cells and a lehner 2230 11 wind motor.

Man that motor must have cost you a fortune. :eek:

[parttime]

danhfvcsd did it work?

[danhfvcsd]

-lol- sorry guys - got caught up last night/yesterday - will have to try tonight :)

[minitee]

Hi guys,will mgm 120 Esc fit in the xxx-4 without mods.?Do you know excact dimenssions of it?
Thanks,minitee

[parttime]

Hi guys,will mgm 120 Esc fit in the xxx-4 without mods.?Do you know excact dimenssions of it?
Thanks,minitee if you mean the 12012 its 69mmx31mmx16mm

[Mr. Constructor]

it will only fit on the upper deck, but even this will be hard, why are you using a 120A esc in a car that is only able to draw around 60A maximum???
Try to go for he smaller 60A version, it´ll be e better fit too.
(my 10th cars are all running 60-65 A esc´s )depending on manufacturer) and they´re well suited for this application)

[danhfvcsd]

OMG IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
It was a bit of a mix of the exponential and throttle trim settings i think - had to play a bit with subtrim on throttle - and exponential, as it was pretty sensitive around neutral throttle - so i think that was my problem -lol-

I havent run it yet, as i'm having that problem with the brake servo - it is applying brakes when i throttle on... tried to resolder the pos and neg wires inside the servo - but i think i screwed it, because it's not moving anymore -lmao-!!! I'll pick up a new servo this weekend, and have someone PROFESSIONAL screw with that.... prolly didn't help my iron is mega huge for the job -lmao- Not to worry - gotta learn someday right? -lol-

Another thing i noticed, was that when i went to brake (with brake servo disconnected) it would actually apply more throttle to the motor??? Is this something to do with the "Airplane" and "Basic" mode settings? or something else?

I still havent got into the PC programming - do i need the BEC to be connected with a y-harness aswell as the esc input to the USBCOM when programming with PC? The PC program doesn't seem to respond to the controller when it is turned on (batts connected) after i connect it....

I open "Controller" program ---> Plug in USBCOM---> Connect ESC to USBCOM---> Plug in batts---> No response? Does the BEC need to be connected aswell somewhere possibly?

But this is good - i'm getting closer and have had a major breakthrough with this tx! -lol-

[tcolesen]

My reply over on URC, just so others can (possibly) comment on my ideas:

Instead of messing with the polarity on the servo, how about switching 2 motor wires, and then flip the diffs? That way, the motor would spin the same way that the brakes would opperate, and then flipping the diffs would reverse the truck's movement. This way would be less expensive (potentially) than changing wires on the servo.

You may want to contact MGM about your USBCOM being recognized, but your controller not being recognized. The designed the system after all, so they should be able to give you some input.

That's great that now you at least have it programmed! How's the low-speed throttle control?

[danhfvcsd]

crap - that sounds the goods..... hmmm - should i reverse the channel on the TX first so the brake is moving in the right direction, and then play with wires and diffs?

My mind is a constant brain fart, and sucks arse with theory -lol- I'm gonna sit here for a short wehile and think on that one, then reply some more -lol-

[danhfvcsd]

mmk - at the moment - the motor is spinning right - but brake servo is wrong direction...

If i ONLY switch 2 motor wires - the motor will spin reverse.....and brake will be wrong direction still.... Motor must spin the other way - and so must brakes....

Therefor i should then reverse the throttle channel on the TX - and then brake will be right direction and so will motor....

Is this right?? -lol-

Right now - brake servo is wrong direction - and motor is correct direction.... i need motor to stay spinning in this direction - so if i reverse the channel and swap 2 motor wires - it'll still be spinning the right way right???

I totally forgot about the motor spinning in 2 directions regarding the 2 motor wires etc -lol-

You're tha fuggin MAN!!! -lol-

[tcolesen]

The MGM controller probably won't like it if you reverse the throttle channel.

I see that there would be a problem with switching the motor direction, as the tranny has one-way bearings that will just slip if the motor spins in the opposite direction.

I don't know which servo wires you switched around, but on your next servo try switching the 2 wires going to the servo motor. That way, the servo will spin in reverse. There shouldn't be any problems with doing that.

[danhfvcsd]

I don't know which servo wires you switched around, but on your next servo try switching the 2 wires going to the servo motor. That way, the servo will spin in reverse. There shouldn't be any problems with doing that.

-rotf - the wrong ones!!!

Yeah - i couldn't get down past the lil 'circuit board' in the servo - so i swtiched whatever 2 wires i could see - i'm pretty sure thats where i screwed it -lol-
I tried levering out the board - but it kinda made a small cracking noise - hence me going for the other 2 red wires which were wrong -lol-

never mind - i'll swap back the ones i had swapped - and see if it works again - hope so -lol-

How do i get down past the circuit board tho? it doesn't wanna come out without cracking....

Might even try that reversing thing anyways - if it doesn't work - at least i tried it - will save me a bit of hassles with the servo i guess if it works -lol- If not - i know the servo motor wires need to be swapped...

[tcolesen]

The only way to take the circuit board out is to unsolder the potentiometer. You will see 3 things slightly sticking up that form a triangle. You have to have the solder melted on each leg, and be pulling at the same time (it isn't easy!). I've done this about 4 times in the past 3 days, so I have some practice. But, to switch the servo's motor's wires, you don't need to access the circuit board. The motor is clearly visible. Just switch the two wires going to it around and the servo should spin in reverse.

[danhfvcsd]

nah - the circuit board is totally covering the motor - i'll grab some shots tonight when i get home :) Unless there's another way to get in to the motor? This is all going from underneath the servo - like - opposite side to all the gears etc.

But that's kinda why i screwed it - because i just un/re soldered the neg and pos wires that were visible - i just assumed they were going to the motor, but i guess they go elsewhere -lol-

I did notice there were alot more wires than i had originally thought there were going to be!! Who'da thunk it - never been inside a servo before when i think about it -lol-


*EDIT*
Just been informed about a "Servo Reverse Lead" that is used in planes alot - so might go that route - will be easier than trying to get in the servo i think -lol-

[Mr. Constructor]

Do not change any wires !! most operations will come to a fail at the ned !!

There are 2 ways:
1. buy a servo revering unit (a small electric unit that will change the servos position (may be available in big stores)

Or used this tip from Hitec USA (found in their troubleshooting guide ;-) )
But it might be functioning best when Hitec Servos are useed !!:

Here´s the Text:

Q. How can I reverse the direction of my analog servo?
A. The easiest way to reverse direction is to use the reverse switch in the transmitter. If you have two servos on a y-harness one will have to be modified for reverse rotation or a reversing y-harness used.

There are four wires that must be switched in order to change the servo direction. Two are on the motor and 2 are on the potentiometer. Switch the red and green wires on the pot and the orange and brown wires on the motor.

Hitec provides these instructions for information purposes only. Hitec assumes no liability when modifications are made to servos.

And here´s the attached Pic to this Text:

[danhfvcsd]

Thanks guys! I'm gonna look into the reversing lead - might save alot of hassles -lol-