TB-02 and Novak GTB 5.5R Brushless ??

[reefmaster22]

Hi guys im sort of new. I owned a TL-01 about 3 years ago and the diffs died after i ran a 15T motor so i gave up $$$ spending. Back into the hobby once again !!

Before I ask I have read plenty of threads, read the rules etc. i cant find any threads with some good insight and info on the Novak GTB + 5.5/6.5R Velociti Brushless setup.

I have just finished building my TB-02 it comes standard with balls diffs, fully ball raced, oil dampers, alloy shafts, ajustable toe-in/out, camber, caster etc.I have also just ordered the Novak GTB combo kit from ebay brand new $370AU. I must say thats a bargain, cant believe my hobby shop is selling this kit for a ridiculous $600AU.

Tamiya TB-02 Chassis :

http://tamiya.com/english/products/58338impreza2004japan/index.htm

My questions are :-


Can the TB-02 chassis handle this brushless setup, or do I need to hop up a few more things to get it up their first. Are the balls diffs able to handle this setup ?

Does anyone own this setup ? Would love to hear your options on it, Pros/Cons etc.

And the 2 most import things I really want to know are.

Rebuild/Maitanance wise ? How many runs before this brushless motor will need a overhaul/rebuild ?

I had a 15T Venom fireball years ago on my TL-01 it lastest about 5 full runs before the damn thing needed a rebuild.

Top speed with good gearing ? Would love to get some pinion/spur gear combos that you think will be a good choice to play/test with.

Thanks in advance guys hopefully other people will get some use out of this thread as well.

[SpEEdyBL]

The TB-02 should be able to handle this motor just fine. If your worried, you can adjust the parameters so the motor doesn't apply as much torque.

As far as maitanance, you can almost forget about this, but it's a good idea to check the bearings and make sure they're smooth every month or so.

Radio Control Car Action tested the gtb/5.5R in an HPI Pro 4 and it went 42 mph with novak's recommended gearing. Optimaman tested this motor in an Associated t4 and he got it up to 49 mph with 2s 8800 lipo.

[reefmaster22]

The TB-02 should be able to handle this motor just fine. If your worried, you can adjust the parameters so the motor doesn't apply as much torque.

As far as maitanance, you can almost forget about this, but it's a good idea to check the bearings and make sure they're smooth every month or so.

Radio Control Car Action tested the gtb/5.5R in an HPI Pro 4 and it went 42 mph with novak's recommended gearing. Optimaman tested this motor in an Associated t4 and he got it up to 49 mph with 2s 8800 lipo.

thanks speedy !!!

[hyperstang]

Well....

Here is my Hopped up TB-02 with all the Tamiya hop ups and the evo III hop ups as well. Even got the carbon fiber shock towers. Just installed my NOVAK 5.5 and she is already to go this weekend. Just gotta tune her up.

Be sure to try to stick with the gear ratio on the chart. I currently run the stock set up, but need to change to the higher spur and the 18T pinion to keep her within NOVAK's chart. Let ya know how she goes...

AAAWWRIGHTTTTT!!!!!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/TritonDRIFT/DSC01403.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/TritonDRIFT/DSC01402.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/TritonDRIFT/DSC01401.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/TritonDRIFT/DSC01400.jpg

[reefmaster22]

Well....

Here is my Hopped up TB-02 with all the Tamiya hop ups and the evo III hop ups as well. Even got the carbon fiber shock towers. Just installed my NOVAK 5.5 and she is already to go this weekend. Just gotta tune her up.

Be sure to try to stick with the gear ratio on the chart. I currently run the stock set up, but need to change to the higher spur and the 18T pinion to keep her within NOVAK's chart. Let ya know how she goes...

AAAWWRIGHTTTTT!!!!!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/TritonDRIFT/DSC01403.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/TritonDRIFT/DSC01402.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/TritonDRIFT/DSC01401.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/TritonDRIFT/DSC01400.jpg

your setup looks awesome... did you do any hopups to the diffs ?
also what ya reckon about the standard oil filled shocks that came with the kit is it worthy to upgrade them ?

Im thinking of going universal drive shafts and alloy motor mount before i install the novak 5.5 kit. Is their anything else you would recommend I hop up prior to running the 5.5 ? I dont want broken parts in like a week so recommend me something else that would be needed to handle the novak.

cheers mate

[reefmaster22]

let us know how she runs too cant wait :) im still waiting for my novak 5.5 gtb kit frome bay im in australia and its coming from the us so prob like 2 weeks :(

[hyperstang]

Thanks reefmaster...

I am actually going to start racing this bad boy in competition. In my opinion, the stock shock are great, but I decided to go with the TRF shocks. They are more tunable to my way of driving and gives me the option to do what I need to get ahead.
I actually am waiting for a mustang body off of ebay that I am currently bidding on....

I will definetly let you know how she performs..

thanks

[reefmaster22]

Thanks reefmaster...

I am actually going to start racing this bad boy in competition. In my opinion, the stock shock are great, but I decided to go with the TRF shocks. They are more tunable to my way of driving and gives me the option to do what I need to get ahead.
I actually am waiting for a mustang body off of ebay that I am currently bidding on....

I will definetly let you know how she performs..

thanks

sounds good mate... i will stick with the stock ones then im not really a racer. will bookmark this thread and check back for your results...

good luck !

[glassdoctor]

reefmaster...
I assume you old car had (plastic) gear diffs.... they suk as you found out.

You don't need to worry about a ball diff unless they are very poor quality... which yours aren't. Just make sure you have them adjusted properly so they aren't slipping like a slipper clutch, and they aren't so tight they are locked up.

As for how many runs before rebuild??? Let's just say that's the point of going brushless... there is no rebuild per say. If all goes well, you will be buying new batteries and maybe a new car before you need to mess with the motor. (except for the occasional check to see if the motor is getting dirty as Speedy said)

:D brushless makes you smile :D

[reefmaster22]

reefmaster...
I assume you old car had (plastic) gear diffs.... they suk as you found out.

You don't need to worry about a ball diff unless they are very poor quality... which yours aren't. Just make sure you have them adjusted properly so they aren't slipping like a slipper clutch, and they aren't so tight they are locked up.

As for how many runs before rebuild??? Let's just say that's the point of going brushless... there is no rebuild per say. If all goes well, you will be buying new batteries and maybe a new car before you need to mess with the motor. (except for the occasional check to see if the motor is getting dirty as Speedy said)

:D brushless makes you smile :D

MY GOD my dreams have finally come true are u telling me i get all that 5.5R raw crazy power all the time everytime without having to rebuild or maintain every 5 runs like a brushed modifed WOHOOO well thats great news so it should be too :P i paid alot of money for the setup.

glassdoctor my TB-02 ball diff is plastic is that a issue i was dissapointed.

I dont think you can get metal gears to replace the diffs internals ??

[glassdoctor]

glassdoctor my TB-02 ball diff is plastic is that a issue i was dissapointed.

I dont think you can get metal gears to replace the diffs internals ??

Well... I don't usually give touring cars a second look... and I have never been a Tamiya guy. So I'm a little lost on this, but...

The diff gear and maybe the outdrives are plastic, but there are metal rings and balls in it. It will be fine unless it is slips too much... and gets so hot it melts the gear.

Ball diffs are in general a huge improvement over old bevel gear type diffs in cheap 1/10 cars. Those old gear diffs would break and strip the internal gears...

Have fun with the new toys.

[hyperstang]

The ball diffs are fine. The TB-02 can handle the power of the Novak 5.5 with no probs. But with all the speed in this bad boy....I need a High Torque steering servo....right now....she pushes...BIG TIME!!!

Way to FAST!!!!!!!

[reefmaster22]

The ball diffs are fine. The TB-02 can handle the power of the Novak 5.5 with no probs. But with all the speed in this bad boy....I need a High Torque steering servo....right now....she pushes...BIG TIME!!!

Way to FAST!!!!!!!

you guys are teasing !!! i cant wait !!!! ebay hurry the hell up !! hehehe

guys today i also bought a radio system this one

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6024547263&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

and i bought this charger (im gonna be using 3800mah NiMH batteries)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6025820404&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

hows the radio and particulary the charger is it a good one ???

should i get a alloy motor mount for the brushless or will the stock plastic one be fine ??

thanks guys !

[hyperstang]

Bad news.....the ESC fried for no apparent reason. It was the second run on pavement and the motor started to pulse and she wouldn't go forward. Then all the blue and amber and red lights went on. Then I started to smell something burning. I mailed it in today to Novak, hopefully I can get her back in a couple of weeks. For now, I may just put back the Novak 5800 until I get the replacement.

[reefmaster22]

Bad news.....the ESC fried for no apparent reason. It was the second run on pavement and the motor started to pulse and she wouldn't go forward. Then all the blue and amber and red lights went on. Then I started to smell something burning. I mailed it in today to Novak, hopefully I can get her back in a couple of weeks. For now, I may just put back the Novak 5800 until I get the replacement.

man thats really dissapointing... im so pi$$ed for you. Seems like alot of people are having the same problem. Really dissapointed in Novak now thats really bad from such a company. nup sorry Novak officially SUX too many people are having too many problems for my liking

NOVAK SUX

[chilledoutuk]

i am sorry yes novak should have a current and/or thermal limiter stopping things like this happening but i like to think that novak products are designed well but manufactured less well and thus if you get one that works then all is well but if your unlucky to get a defected unit then it may smoke on you.
It may seem to people that there are a lot of novaks blowing up lately but then i think this is only proportional to the amount of units they are now selling.

Perhaps novak could share the stat for the amount of units sold that need repair under warranty as a percentage. I am sure that its very low and due to the shear number of units being sold the number of faulty units has also seemedly increased.

needless to say there have been a lot of mtroniks genesis controller sold as well and not many reports of problems at all. I still however think that sensorless is the future as it keeps the system simple and thus reliable.

The bigest thing i can say is that most of us have no way of knowing how these novak gtb systems are being used its entirely possible that they are being missused causing the failures. However the amount of R&D that went into novaks systems one would assume that they would make sure that the controller would protect itself from damage when certain current and temperature thresholds are reached.
From this is could be deduced that most problems are caused by manufacturing defects.

[reefmaster22]

i am sorry yes novak should have a current and/or thermal limiter stopping things like this happening but i like to think that novak products are designed well but manufactured less well and thus if you get one that works then all is well but if your unlucky to get a defected unit then it may smoke on you.
It may seem to people that there are a lot of novaks blowing up lately but then i think this is only proportional to the amount of units they are now selling.

Perhaps novak could share the stat for the amount of units sold that need repair under warranty as a percentage. I am sure that its very low and due to the shear number of units being sold the number of faulty units has also seemedly increased.

needless to say there have been a lot of mtroniks genesis controller sold as well and not many reports of problems at all. I still however think that sensorless is the future as it keeps the system simple and thus reliable.

The bigest thing i can say is that most of us have no way of knowing how these novak gtb systems are being used its entirely possible that they are being missused causing the failures. However the amount of R&D that went into novaks systems one would assume that they would make sure that the controller would protect itself from damage when certain current and temperature thresholds are reached.
From this is could be deduced that most problems are caused by manufacturing defects.

yep but its pretty bad i dont want one anymore... seriously guys ive read so many posts and threads and at LEAST 20 blowup or return for warranty horry stories on the GTB. That is too much for my liking. Im gonna risk getting negative feedback and im not going through with my GTB from ebay. I live in Australia and if mine fails then good luck to me sending it in for warranty in the USA what a hassle.

Nope. Im gonna pass im so pi$$ed off though now what the hell is my setup gonna be... back to the drawing board any suggestions

[hyperstang]

This is actually my second time returning a brushless motor. When the 5800 came out, I had a problem with the ESC and it fried. But I must say the NOVAK customer service is the best.

Not only did I get GREAT customer service, but I got a brand spankin new one within 3 days that they received the defected item. It was FEDEX which surprised the heck out of me.

I think I got one of the early batches and I think that Novak has the improved ones..hopefully going out to me soon. As far as user error....NO WAY. All I did was solder a dean's plug on and use the factory setting "1". I got 15years of RC behind my belt and I think my soldering techniques have gotten a heck of a lot better since then.

But I'll give it a go again when I do receive the package back. I really wanted to make this Sunday's race with my TB-02, but maybe It'll have to wait a week or two.

[reefmaster22]

ok say i go with a decent no turn limit esc and decent brushed motor say a reedy 9T for example how many runs will I get before i have to start cutting comes etc. details would be excellent.... im so dissapoint cant belive im actually asking this i really wanted the novak 5.5 brushless...

[glassdoctor]

If you go that route, I can tell you the Orion Revolution motors are great for low maintenance. I have a 12x2 and 10x2... in a B4 and T4 that I race off road. I ran my B4 at least 30 times before I even took it out of the car... and it seemed like I could have gone a lot longer. I just skimmed the comm... it wasn't bad at all. I put in fresh brushes but again they were still usable, and the motor was running fine.

The Revolution motors are known to last 30-40 runs on a pair of brushes without cutting the comm. You still should keep the motor clean, but the comm/brushes hold up awesome.

An 8 turn should do it. :)

[reefmaster22]

If you go that route, I can tell you the Orion Revolution motors are great for low maintenance. I have a 12x2 and 10x2... in a B4 and T4 that I race off road. I ran my B4 at least 30 times before I even took it out of the car... and it seemed like I could have gone a lot longer. I just skimmed the comm... it wasn't bad at all. I put in fresh brushes but again they were still usable, and the motor was running fine.

The Revolution motors are known to last 30-40 runs on a pair of brushes without cutting the comm. You still should keep the motor clean, but the comm/brushes hold up awesome.

An 8 turn should do it. :)

wow first time i see such a different approach thats pretty damn good 30 runs before maintanance... big smile... how much do they go for approx. say a 10 turn double. also what esc would u recommend as a combo. i will be running 4200mah batteries do u reckon i could break the 10 minute runtime barrier on a 10 turn ?

[glassdoctor]

They are just a typical modified motor so the prices are the usual $60 range with less expensive machine wound (dumbed down somewhat) versions about half that. I would recomend the $60 hand wound version because it has a nice full aluminum heatsink endbell to keep the brushes cool... for the long runtime you want.

You could get 10 miuntes easy with the new 4200 cells under normal racing conditions... but of course run time varies a lot depending on what exactly you are doing. Run full speed in grass and you could dump twice as fast as "normal".

You have to watch temps when you have long runtimes... a brushed modified might do fine for @6 minute races but 10-12 minutes nonstop could get it hot enough to affect bruhses/comm.

That's just a disclaimer, that it's possible to screw things up with poor gearing, abusive running conditions, etc.

Bottom line is yes you can get good reliable performance and long runtimes with these motors.

BTW there are relabeled versions of the Revs from Fantom and maybe others... in case your LHS doesn't have the Orions.

[reefmaster22]

They are just a typical modified motor so the prices are the usual $60 range with less expensive machine wound (dumbed down somewhat) versions about half that. I would recomend the $60 hand wound version because it has a nice full aluminum heatsink endbell to keep the brushes cool... for the long runtime you want.

You could get 10 miuntes easy with the new 4200 cells under normal racing conditions... but of course run time varies a lot depending on what exactly you are doing. Run full speed in grass and you could dump twice as fast as "normal".

You have to watch temps when you have long runtimes... a brushed modified might do fine for @6 minute races but 10-12 minutes nonstop could get it hot enough to affect bruhses/comm.

That's just a disclaimer, that it's possible to screw things up with poor gearing, abusive running conditions, etc.

Bottom line is yes you can get good reliable performance and long runtimes with these motors.

BTW there are relabeled versions of the Revs from Fantom and maybe others... in case your LHS doesn't have the Orions.

sounds good trying to find a online supplier thats either in australia or will ship at a decent price to australia.... looking for a decent esc also that wont break the bank preferably no motor limit and a reliable one.... any thaughts on that...

thanks again

[chilledoutuk]

dont get brushed they suck.
Get a mtroniks setup mine works a treat a mtroniks pro and one of those new feigoas is a spanking setup and ready for lipo as well.

[ElectricThunder]

I've noticed all the GTB threads, and I'm amazed. I have a feeling it's a faulty part. With any product, you're bound to find a handful of lemons. I'm sure Novak is taking care of it all. The same thing happened with the SS5800 system. Its thermal sensor wouldn't shut down the ESC, so eventually, for some people, it just fried. This is why I always wait about a year to get stuff, so they can work out all the bugs...:D ;)

[reefmaster22]

I've noticed all the GTB threads, and I'm amazed. I have a feeling it's a faulty part. With any product, you're bound to find a handful of lemons. I'm sure Novak is taking care of it all. The same thing happened with the SS5800 system. Its thermal sensor wouldn't shut down the ESC, so eventually, for some people, it just fried. This is why I always wait about a year to get stuff, so they can work out all the bugs...:D ;)

chilledoutuk do u know a online place were u can get that brushless setup that ships to down under


cheers

[chilledoutuk]

if i wanted to get a kickass 6cell setup i would get the following:
http://www.starluckrc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_28_58&products_id=129
http://www.starluckrc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_60&products_id=135

I am sure starkuck would ship almost anywhere in the world.

[reefmaster22]

if i wanted to get a kickass 6cell setup i would get the following:
http://www.starluckrc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_28_58&products_id=129
http://www.starluckrc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_60&products_id=135

I am sure starkuck would ship almost anywhere in the world.

how many turns is that thing

[ElectricThunder]

how many turns is that thing
6. The name says it: 380C-6T Where #T is number of turns.:D

[EvaderRacer76]

but it only says 5820kv. Thats pretty much the same as the Novak SS5800. Its less turns than the 5800, but its prolly not gonna have as much power as the 5800. The 5.5 will easily kill that setup in a race IMO.

[tcolesen]

The Novak SS5800 is rated at 5800 without a load. Under a load, it could drop to 4300RPM or less (depending on the vehicle load).

[ElectricThunder]

but it only says 5820kv. Thats pretty much the same as the Novak SS5800. Its less turns than the 5800, but its prolly not gonna have as much power as the 5800. The 5.5 will easily kill that setup in a race IMO.
The feigaos have stronger rotors, and hold their RPM under load MUCH better than the novak. Like tcoleson said, the novak Kv can drop down to 4300 or lower depending on what it's being run in.

[chilledoutuk]

but it only says 5820kv. Thats pretty much the same as the Novak SS5800. Its less turns than the 5800, but its prolly not gonna have as much power as the 5800. The 5.5 will easily kill that setup in a race IMO.

oh dear oh dear oh dear some people really should keep quite when they have no clue what they are talking about.

My c408s equivelent to the 380C-8T trops a load over the novak supersport when being controlled by either of my new controllers the new hacker master comp or the new genesis controllers.

You see the problem with the ss5800 supersport setup is that when you first use it your like wow it has loads of torque.
But what happens is that the system generates loads of torque at low speed but your torque and power kinda disapears when you get to the mid powerband and it takes much longer to accellerate to top speed.

Now with new genesis sensorless controllers the initial accelleration is still good enough to whellspin off the line but the powerband is much more consistant meaning the car accellerates hard right up until top speed is reached.

the 380C-6T will be a very quick 6 cell motor and should not trouble the mtroniks

I am not sure what the new velocity 5.5 would be like but it seems that its too much for novaks gtb that seem to be burning out all over the place even though they have a fan which i remember pointing out as being a bad omen.

[aqualato1]

For as many GTB systems that are out there I wouldn't be concerned about the lemons and let them scare you. If every person that doesn't have a defective system wrote a comment on here, these forums would be filled up.

Tower is just now starting to have them fully in stock. I remember when they just got in stock (late August?) and then there were backorders on them till late December, so there is alot out there that are working just fine. I myself own one and it works perfectly fine.

[Rtsbasic]

If you'd like to go by the numbers, I believe OptimaMan ran some tests a few weeks back that shown the Novak 5.5 and the 380C 6t to be on par, with the Novak being slightly more efficent. I have a 380 8s, and 380 9s, both have lower kv's than the SS5800 but they're both a bit more powerful, with the 380 6t being quite a bit more powerful than either of my 380's on 6 cells (mine being 4400 & 4900kv, the 6t is 6700kv).

[Jev]

If you'd like to go by the numbers, I believe OptimaMan ran some tests a few weeks back that shown the Novak 5.5 and the 380C 6t to be on par, with the Novak being slightly more efficent. I have a 380 8s, and 380 9s, both have lower kv's than the SS5800 but they're both a bit more powerful, with the 380 6t being quite a bit more powerful than either of my 380's on 6 cells (mine being 4400 & 4900kv, the 6t is 6700kv).

Bare in mind the novak is legal for the Roar/ifmar rules. It's also rebuildable and parts can be replaced. You also get very good support. I've not had a problem with my GTB,5.5 motor or 5800 motor. My first mtroniks blew up instantly.

Disclaimer : Both combos are good but neither are perfect. :p

[chilledoutuk]

obviously jev your mtroniks unit was a defective and in fact my favorite type of failure which is an instant one instead of intermitant and overheating which is much more time consuming and irritating.
on a whole though the mtroniks genesis controllers seem to be in general more reliable than novaks gtb which needs a fan to operate this i believe is not down to manufacture quality but rather the fact that the conroller seems to be stretched to much when powering the velocity 5.5.

[Jev]

I think the very big heatsink on the mtroniks may help it somewhat ;). But I've not seen evidence that the gtb failures were like what you have described, but rather similair to what I had with my first mtroniks.

obviously jev your mtroniks unit was a defective and in fact my favorite type of failure which is an instant one instead of intermitant and overheating which is much more time consuming and irritating.
on a whole though the mtroniks genesis controllers seem to be in general more reliable than novaks gtb which needs a fan to operate this i believe is not down to manufacture quality but rather the fact that the conroller seems to be stretched to much when powering the velocity 5.5.

[CharlieS]

I don't even know where to start, so I'll simply post our email as usual.

Tech@teamnovak.com in case you want any answers directly from us. :)

[reefmaster22]

I don't even know where to start, so I'll simply post our email as usual.

Tech@teamnovak.com in case you want any answers directly from us. :)

im dying to get one i want the speed and dont want brushed. got the money for it but im scared to get it off ebay fromt he us. What if i cant get warranty and send it all the way their.

[CharlieS]

So don't buy it from Ebay. There are many other places that aren't ebay that offer direct mail order sales.