HUGE distance problem!

[FlyerCAN]

I've had my 57MAGNUM for 3 or 4 years now and from then till now I still have my distance problem. It gets maybe 150-200 feet away then looses total reception. I have to walk towards the boat to get it to respond again. Great thing those failsafes! I started out with an AM hitec 2ch stick radio. Figured it was AM so I went FM. No diff so I now have a spectrum, totally in awe when it didn't make a diff again! WTH is going on here?! Can anyone give me some possibilities? I'm thinkin coil, but this was since day one with a brand new engine. 260pum-zen. I thouoght nothing wouold interfier with the spectrum radio? or so we are led to believe
I read somewhere that sparkplug noise interfierence would be a thing of the past with the spectrum radio. Wouldn't the coil noise be considered the same as sparkplug noise? I really need a solution here!

Thanks All!
Chris

[Chris LaPanse]

You're using the stock spektrum reciever?

Have you checked the batteries? Stupid question, but all I can think of at the moment.

I don't see what it could be, as my Manta Ray has never had problems out to about 2000 feet or more with a Hitec Aggressor CRX.

[Strykerjoe]

A buddy of mine got a spectrum and had the same problem! The antena in the reciever was not conected?He sent it back and still waits for a new one to come back! I also run a Hitec Aggressor CRX with SPECTRA,never had a problem with my race REVO or in my boat. Hope it helps?

[FlyerCAN]

I asked Tony and he told me to wrap the coil in tinfoil and see if it makes a diff. Well today tinfoil is made of aluminum but I did it anyway and I get a big diff in range. Not big enough, but very noticable. Maybe twice the range. Keep in mind this is still the spektrum which brags 3000feet. I got maybe 400feet with the coil wrapped in aluminum foil. So... Anybody have a coil for a 260zen?

Chris

[BoatDoc]

just out of curiosity...do you always run at the same place? i had a problem at a place once and it turned out to be the location! there was some funny signals going on there. high tension wires can throw a lot of interference out (for example). could be something like that.

[Chris LaPanse]

True. The location I run at has a lot of interference, and although FM radios work fine, an AM radio has about 10-15 feet.

[Doc]

Chris,
Odd. Aside from the problem very strong 'noise' can cause witrh radios, where is the antenna? Not really a problem with the 'Spektrum' but certainly a consideration with most AM/FM radios. Higher is always better (higher meaning outside of the hull in some cases). Doesn't do much for the 'looks', but does help with control/range.
I think the 'noise' thingy is the culpret, at least more likely. Good luck.
- 'Doc

PS - When you do find out what's doing it, I'd certainly be interested in knowing too!

[FlyerCAN]

No, not always in the same place. I ran my boat in 5 or more different areas. Always the same result. Now I only bought the spektrum this year so I've only tried that radio in one place, but my buddy stands beside me with his fm radio and goes as far as we can see there. those coils are expensive! I'll order a new engine before I pay full price for one of those. :)

[Ron Olson]

You mentioned using a failsafe. You shouldn't need it with the Spektrum and hope that you're not. If you continued to use it with the other systems, it could be the failsafe making you lose range, a big complaint of some of them.
Is the problem only when running or when you range check it?

[FlyerCAN]

No I don't use a failsafe with the spektrum. The receivers have them built into every channel. Which in a sense covers the cost of a receiver plus extra. I've never range checked it. Just happens while I run it.
Found a coil at HorizonHobbies for a mere $33.95 compared to others at $49.99. Ordered it today and hope to see it for the weekend coming. I don't mind not getting full range out of a radio, but I do want to be able to ride out as far as I want and turn around on my own free will and not the radios. 400 feet was a guess, but thinking of it now it seems more like 300. Not as much fun when the boat shuts down trying to do a speed run that lasts 5-8 seconds and then you have to turn around and do it again the other way. Next time i go I will make a video of the distance and put it on rcflix.com just so you guys can see what i am talking about. Its really only a 5second run away from me then it's out of range. Try imagining it like that. When I go boating I never turn around when I want to. It's always when it's getting out of range. It's been like that for three years with this boat and 3 radios. AM, FM and now 2.4GHZ.

chris

[BoatDoc]

maybe it's thoses nasty gremlins, again...little %*%^'s are always trying to ruin somebody's fun. but seriously, this is just wierd. can't say i've heard one like this yet.

[engineman351]

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days...If you have had this problem with three radios I would bet it is not directly related to the transmitter or receiver...as they have been changed. That said, the obvious culprits like metal to metal contact and wire routing are usually easy to eliminate, and I'm sure you are using a resistor plug in the Zen. Not so obvious is lack of receiver power and/or inductive interference. You haven't mentioned what kind of servos you use, but if it's a quarter scale, digital, or inexpensive high torque type, especially on the rudder, the current drain can really cause some glitches. On most of my rudder servos I use another servo plug and split the power wires off the servo (red/black) and plug them into a y-harness off the battery/switch slot and then plug the 'signal' wire from the servo into the chan 1 slot. Some guys just use the y-harness to plug the servo and the bat/switch into chan1 and the servo power (amp draw) will still bypass the receiver BEC yet the receiver remains powered through the chan1 slot. All this said I would also try different servos in case one is causing interference. I would also make sure that the travel on the servos isn't allowing one to over travel and stall (big current draw!). If you use NiCd or NiMh try another battery. Sometimes they look like they charge ok, but they could be weak putting out the volts n' amps. I've even seen corrosion internally cause a weak bat to bat connection that emanates interference. If you use alkaline and a 4-cell holder use the bats for 2.5-3 hrs of run time tops...and try a new bat holder too. Last, make sure the coil/plug wire is not corroded and fully seated in the coil. Maybe you will get lucky and the coil will fix it!! I hope you figure it out. Theres nothing more nerve wracking when driving one of these things than when you know at some point you may have less than 100% control!! Regards, RC

[BYBLYVA]

I am no expert, but did you cut your reciever wire? That could have messed up your range.

[Ron Olson]

Start with the process of elimination. It takes time but it's better than losing control of the boat and doing serious damage to the boat or property.
Check for a crack in the spark plug or replace it if it's been in there for a while, metal-to-metal contact all over. Shaking the boat while it's not running might bring out the problem with the radio system on.

[FlyerCAN]

Thanks for all the ideas guys, they are all great ones. I do have a Y harness on my 1/4 scale Futaba rudder servo, my antena wires have never been cut and it now sticks out of the radio box so its away from all power sources. It's my second steering servo and don't remember how many throttle servos have passed through it. I use white grease on my connections to avoid corrosion. I've tried all different types of batteries. NiMH mostly, but I tried alkaline too. Didn't help. I use a battery LED indicator to show battery power and always run it while it's in the green. It's my 4th or 5th spark plug. All stock type with the R in the model #. CMR7H I think. I did get a little more range now that my grey coil is wrapped in aluminum foil. This has been a problem since the boat arrived new so it can't be corrosion on the spark plug wire although it may be seated badly. I havent tried pushing it into the coil to see if it's loose. My coil is here in town, but it's at UPS office and can't get it t'ill monday now. Would you believe UPS wants 40% of the parcel value in a brokerage fee on items shipped from the USA 40%!!! Thats over 2X more than the government wants from me. The parcel was $50US and they want $12cdn in tx and then they want another $34 in fees! Are they crooks or what?!

Thanks for all your help guys

P.S.: I tried uploading the range test video to rcflix, but for some reason it never shows up after it's done. :(

[Doc]

FlyerCAN,
"Are they crooks...?"
Gov.: Of course they are, they're politicians aren't they?
UPS: Sometimes. That's cuz they're amateur politicians.

- 'Doc

[Ron Olson]

I'm guessing that they coil could solve your problems.
The next time, have it shipped via the USPS, a lot less hassle. Have the paperwork showing that the value is $15.00 or less or have them show it as a gift. Shipping to Canada is a pain in the butt for us here in the States. With iit being less than 200 miles away from me, it's easier and faster for me to ship to Germany than to the Great White North.

[Doubledog]

How hard to borrow an engine & drop it in the boat for one run? Maybe 20 minutes work at the water if that. See how the other guys engine does in your boat or even swap your radio for their boat . Thinking out loud.

[FlyerCAN]

I would like to have borrowed his coil, but his is mounted under his carb still and it's his new boat so I wouldn't dare ask to take out his motor before he ran it. His older boat had a homelite 30. He did upgrade to a 23zen, but it was fairly old and the coil was different then I guess. So I have to wait... :(

[RickE]

Another trick you might try is to replace the stock coil plug cap with one equipped with a internal resistor. They're available at most small engine/generator dealers (I use a small Honda generator cap on my boat) and this could reduce the "noise" given-off by the coil and/or the plug itself.

RickE

[FlyerCAN]

Another trick you might try is to replace the stock coil plug cap with one equipped with a internal resistor. They're available at most small engine/generator dealers (I use a small Honda generator cap on my boat) and this could reduce the "noise" given-off by the coil and/or the plug itself.

RickE


I did think of that as my problem but someone(a mechanic) told me that all caps were like that now so I didn't bother. Maybe I will try that tomorrow. :rolleyes:

Thanks RickE

Chris

[FlyerCAN]

:( Well its not the grey coil so its back to square one. :mad:

[Doc]

This is a real long shot so take it for what it's worth.
I just realized you're using a 'Spektrum' radio (not to observant sometimes). Does it have the receiver 'binding' reature and if so, make sure the 'binding' button isn't stuck in. That reduces the power to about 1/2 and might be at least part of the problem. I really doubt it, but maybe...
- 'Doc

[Ron Olson]

Oh boy, back to square one! I'll bet that you're having fun now.
Something is telling me that it has to be something that is giving off electrical interference in the engine or driveline if with all of the radio systems that you've used. it has to be a nasty one if it's messing with FM and the Spektrum radio.
I've heard recently that the Spektrum isn't made for boat use as the signals seem to be getting bounced off the waters surface but nobody bothered to tell the boaters until too late.
Keep at it as there are a lot of us that are curious as to what the problem is and put that sledgehammer down! :)

[BoatDoc]

dude...i just have to say that i'm surprised you kept at it this long! i too, am curious as to what it is. i think we've covered everything here in the forum. when you figure it out, let us know...me for one, i'm STUMPED!

[Doc]

Ron,
The bouncing off the water thingy with 2.4 Ghz is one of those 'myth' thingys. RF propagation just doesn't happen that way. The 'Spektrum' will work as well with boats as it will with any other type of R/C radio band use. I brought up the 'binding' thing because of the reduced power aspect, which could possibly cause something in the nature of what's happening. And as I said on that post, it's not really a very likely possibility. Oh well, maybe we'll find out what the problem is when he solves it.
- 'Doc

[RickE]

Here's another thing you might try. I once talked to a gasboater who cured a radio glitch problem by running a ground wire from the engine to the stuffing tube! He attached to one screw on the secondary coil and simply wrapped the stripped wire around the stuffing tube behind the connection between the engine and tube (soldering it might be an option as well). I know it sounds weird, but it's a quickie fix that might help.

RickE

[Ball Racing]

Yeah, I have had issues with my spectrum, lack of range-then going into failsafe......
I tried 3 different receivers, 2 different transmitter modules, then went and got rid of my M8, and got a M11,

Same problems, Nitro boats, villian electric, Shockwave 55, brushless deep vee, all the same, go about 300 foot, and glitch, some days better than others.

[FlyerCAN]

I'm gonna try my buddies radio in mine and my spektrum in his. Just to weed out another possibility. I havent tried the sparkplug cap swap yet, but all the other boats run with it so I will assume its not the problem. I still may try another type soon. I am also going to try and ground everything to the engine. My stuffing tube should be already grounded to the engine though. It has a WHH clutch on it and its all bolted together from starter to tube. OK! Just a thought, and a convincing one, but if it was a flex shaft/stuffing tube problem and I have a clutch. When the boat came to a stop out of range, as soon as the drive shaft stopped I would regain control, which I don't. So now I will exclude any noise made by my hardware past the clutch. I am going to have to try A distance test with the engine off so i can weed out another theory. Be back l8r with the results.

[FlyerCAN]

Sorry, but I didn't get a chance to do any of the above. My buddy bought his boat off a guy on ebay who puts them together and sells them. What a poor job of assembly. He has been trying to get a good run out of his boat since the ice left without any luck. Always something goes wrong. When he fixes one problem another surfaces. Its a never ending job for him to weed out all the bad assembly problems. Anyway my hull is really getting the cr@p beatin out of it and so I started disassembling it tonight and found that my header and muffler are always in contact and rubbing. This may be the cause of my radio noise that is interfering with my signal. Will fix this prob and put all back to see if this solves the problem. Will be back to let you all know the outcome.

Chris

[FlyerCAN]

I was out at it today. Was a waste of time. Still no difference. What's even worse is that I did the range test on land with motor not running and I got the same results, with the spektrum. I did put a new digital Hitec servo in there that seemed to go haywire now and then, but I don't think it was the problem. I guess that new motor I have coming was a waste of $$ as well. :(
gonna try the range test with my T-Maxx to see if I get the same results as the boat. It uses the same transmitter, but has its own receiver. I measured the distance in steps of approx 160 where mine are about 2.5 feet per which gives us approx 400'. That's 400' of wide open space, no obstructions or powerlines with the new Spektrum 2.4Ghz radio that claims no interference from engine noise and a range of up to 3000'. HMMMM. Mind you all, I don't get any better range with an AM or FM radio. I am ready to give up my gas boating hobby soon, if this goes unsolved. :mad:

Thanks all for the great solution possibilities!
Chris

[Ron Olson]

We're scratching our heads also. Have you consulted any of the big brains at radio service centers yet?

[Doc]

Chris,
I don't think you should give it up, but you might put it on the shelf for a little while (while you're still looking for the 'cure'). They say knitting passes the time pretty well. ('They' are sometimes full of it too!) Good luck, and if/when you do find out the problem I/we would certainly appreciate knowing what it is/was.
- 'Doc

[FlyerCAN]

Wow! Just read throught this post again since I last posted here. I have never found the problem and still have it. Haven't been using my boat much in the past couple of years. I am moving to a small town in north eastern Quebec, near NFLD. Lots of water around! Ocean is 100ft from my house and a few big ponds out back of town. I can't wait till next summer now. I was planning on putting the aircraft radio on it to see if i get the range I had on my first r/c boat I had. The shockwave air boat with a 46TG. It went far! out of site. I am gonna try my 7ch JR on it. Had a Futaba 2ch aircraft on the air boat back then. Still have that radio, but it doesn't have servo reversing switches so I don't like to use it on pre manufactured model where moving the servo is not an option. I could move the cable. What are the laws against using aircraft radios on land vehicles? Why are we not using them on land vehicles?

Wow its been a while....

Chris

[Doubledog]

No doubt Chris, great to see you. I'm out of touch with the boats as well though I still have a few. Maybe someone else will chime in that can assist with your issue. Take care & best regards buddy. -Jamie

[tadium54]

So you've tried the original tx with a new rx, and a new tx with original rx. Correct? Have you tried the new tx and new rx together?

[Ron Olson]

I'm still thinknig that it's the radio system. Spektrum has realized the problem (finally!) and has recently come out with a new receiver made for marine use.
I've seen too many of the 2.4 Gig radio systems glitching except for the Futaba FASST including 2 Spektrum's on the same day and a Nomadio equipped boat that I drove recently.
Check the spark plug also to see if it has an R on it which indicates a resistor plug. If not, get one.

[FlyerCAN]

Yes I have resistor plugs Ron. No i didn't swap rx with tx. I only have 1 of each. 1 am set, 1 fm set and 1 2.4GHz. spektrum Tad. Heard today that spektrum had issues with gasoline engines. Guy at hobby shop said he wouldn't sell a 2.4GHz to a guy to run on a gas boat. So when I get back east I am gonna take off the spektrum and put the FM back in it. No power lines anywhere near the place I will be running. Then if there is still no range I will be putting the A/C radio in the boat.

Chris

[FlyerCAN]

Hey Ron... The spektrum aircraft receivers look very similar to the marine receiver. Do you know if these 2 technologies are using the same principal? If so can I just buy and aircraft radio and receiver combo to run in my boat? Frequency and power are not an issue here where I am living now. I would be the only one in a 1000km radius with a radio like this. I am guessing there, may be even more!

[Ron Olson]

There must be something inside that's different.
It won't be the idea of nobody else being around you on 2.4 Gig as we've had the same situation here, not even a powerline nearby to interfere in a huge open park.

[FlyerCAN]

No I wasnt refering to that, I was refering to breakin air and ground radio laws. Using an aircraft radio on my boat. Was wondering if I just ordered the DX5e with receiver would I be getting the same tech as if it were the MR200 marine receiver except without the waterproofing?