Novak GTB Problems [Archive] - Radio Control Zone

viet_mafia

04-24-2006, 08:34 AM

Hi, I recently bought a second-hand GTB 5.5 Brushless System and I tried it out for the first time today but it was having these wierd problems. Sometimes the throttle would work, other times it wouldn't and the blue LED would blink suggesting a locked rotor.....but the drivetrain is completely free, the funny thing is that if i give it some throttle and push the car with my foot to get it rolling it actually gets power :confused: I have no idea what could be wrong with it....the setups are all ok, but it looks like the guy has tried running the brushless without a power cap and melted a bit of the plastic on the case, other than that once it gets going it works perfectly fine. Can anyone help?

Rocksalt

04-24-2006, 09:07 AM

Did you install a new power cap? My GTB fried the power cap and shortly after blew the FET board. Might have a few fet's gone bad.

viet_mafia

04-24-2006, 09:11 AM

Rocksalt

04-24-2006, 09:54 AM

You don't want to run them in series. The stock cap that came with my GTB was a 5600mf 10V with 2 transient voltage suppressors and 3 resistors. You should have no cogging problems at all. When my cap blew the car would take off slower, most of the punch was gone. You also need a cap with a low ESR or you will damage the ESC(something I read somewhere). What sucks is that if the power cap blows, does it mean it will damage the ESC? If so, this is a poorly designed system as caps will eventually fail quickly when tax'd. Be nice to have a failsafe for an open cap situation.

chilledoutuk

04-24-2006, 10:18 AM

wire capcitors in parallel to add up there capacity if you want to reduce there capcity then put them in series in the case of power caps on speed controllers wire them in parallel.

SS Pede

04-24-2006, 08:27 PM

That sounds like the same issue that some SS5800's have had. I have heard of several people on this forum or others that can't get their vehicle to launch from a dead stop, but it goes fine if you give it a little push. Weird. Maybe it's just a coincidence with the GTB, since it's such a different system than the SS5800. In any case, Novak's customer service is great if you want to contact them.

ElectricThunder

04-24-2006, 08:32 PM

yes i have a new power cap.....or more like a two 10v/4700uF power caps wired in series for a dual throttle look and some good cappage performance :D the motor also sounds like it has some rough cogging in the low revs....not sure if it has anything to do with the locked rotor detection problem or not...
Try picking up the cap harness thingy that the GTB system comes with. The GTB system is designed with that little cap bundle thingy so that the cap/bundle thingy is the first to go instead of the FETs I believe. Anyways, I'm thinking the capacitors may be the problem. If that doesn't fix it, send it in to Novak if you can. Odd problem though. :confused:

burnineyes

04-25-2006, 01:27 AM

i am having the same problem with my ss5800. its about five months old and has run great until the day it stopped a week ago. i hit the throttle, the green light comes on, if i touch the shaft it will turn normally. if i dont touch it, the speed control will flash the green and blue lights. also when i hit reverse, the speed control will flash the amber light very rapidly. it will always turn in reverse as usual, but it was starting to cog pretty bad in reverse the last few runs. the shaft turns freely, i checked all the wires, and the cap appears to be fine. the system was a gift and i dont believe i can return it without paying money i dont have. any help would be appreciated, do the capacitors go bad without showing it?

Rocksalt

04-25-2006, 08:34 AM

TAke the cap shrink wrap off and look for a broken cap lead. If you can't find it get an DVM(volt meter)(that has a reading for capacitance) and measure the farads of the cap(you might be able to go to radio shack and have them measure it.). Then remove the battery and measure the voltage across the cap. You should see battery voltage when disconnected. Measure directly from the circuit board and not the cap leads.

racer234

04-26-2006, 01:15 AM

Tell me about it...my GTB has "cogged" since I got it. Well I sent it back to Novak and here its 2 weeks later and haven't got it back. But not all of them are bad; my brothers 5.5 runs flawlessly. Of course I got the lemon!

dean76

05-01-2006, 02:25 PM

me too im on my third gtb first one worked fine for 2 months then just stopped working ,
all blinking lights and no throttle,second one lasted a week before it started getting really hot acting eracticly and smelling of burning so that one went back.
my third has run spot on now for 2 weeks heres hoping eh,i do hope it lasts this time as when its working its awesome.
i must say novak have been good and replaced every one ,although it did take a while as i live in the uk .
i think ill give this third system a chance and if it lasts ill stick with it as it is so good when working,but if this ones goes bad i think ill go back to brushed modifieds for now and give the brushless manufacturers a season or two to iron the bugs out, as its not just novak gtbs going bang, my friends lrp went pop last week and ive heard many different systems having problems.
i suppose what we have to remember is rc companys have been making brushed motors for years brushless is still in its infancy.
any how i a lighter note im currently racing a schumacher cat3000 4wd 1 10th buggy ive got 250 ish to spend on a new race car what should i get?
academy pro, kyosho lazer zx5 ttech predator, losixxx4 or xx4
im confused ive been running the cat for two years now and have tons of spares and know it like the back of my hand so im reluctant to swap butits getting a little long in the tooth now and is struggleing to be competative even with the working gtb in any tips guys n gals

Killer87

05-01-2006, 07:09 PM

Dean76: try using punctuation. It would be easier to undertand what you're trying to say. But I understood one section. Lazer ZX-5 hands down.

For everyone who has the push start problem:

The push start problem where the motor won't go in a certain spot is due to a burnt phase in the ESC. At least thats what one of the Novak racers told me and it was confirmed by Novak repairs when I brought it in.

chilledoutuk

05-01-2006, 09:33 PM

Please dont mistake the problems of sensored systems such as the gtb and the sphere with sensorless which mechanically has much simpler motors and thus proves a more reliable technology as there are no hall sensors to go wrong or sensor harnesses.

I have a hacker c40 8s which just keeps on going all my sensorless controllers have worked flawlessly for ages.

The problem is that the sensored systems from lrp and novak are designed around 6 cell operation and thus there putshing the limit on there controllers by using rediculously high kv motors that pull so much current that there controller needs a fan as standard.

All this whilst there making there controllers small enough to fit cars that seem to be designed by electronics space sadists.

The problem is it seems novak and lrp are burning there wick at both ends trying provide imense products for a very cheap price which in the end means for profit to be made in such a competitive enviroment production costs need to be reduced and thus an end result of some units becoming defective.

Just compare the build qullity of a german made brushless motor (hacker,lehner,kontroik etc) to that of the motors from novak and lrp.

raytracer

05-03-2006, 10:21 PM

What do you guys think of the super sport escand ss5800 combo? Any defects heard as of late? I might order it here http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=NOV3004/135.0.151.0.0.0.0

burnineyes

05-21-2006, 11:19 AM

well i had mine for five months and i was so in love with it. it was fast, and so reliable. but now it is useless. buy hey, in five months, as much as i abuse my cars, i would have easily spent more money on a few brushed motors and several sets of brushes. battery after battery after battery of running. just looking at a brushed motor makes me bored nowadays.

SS Pede

05-21-2006, 02:36 PM

I have had a great time with my SS5800 system. Still going strong since October 2003.

ElectricThunder

05-21-2006, 03:34 PM

I have had a great time with my SS5800 system. Still going strong since October 2003.
Ditto. It just needs to find a new home.. My t3 is still outta commission... :rolleyes:

Kden46

06-15-2007, 08:17 PM

Can someone tell what led's are supposed to be on?

I setup my GTB 6.5 and all works fine but I have had either the blue led or the blue and amber led stay on. They are not blinking and the esc and motor still work just fine. Although I have not run the car except a full blips of the throttle in forward and reverse as well as braking.

I am assuming since the lights are not blinking that there is not a problem? But wondering why these led's are staying on?

Mahalo for any info/help

Grizzbob

06-16-2007, 02:36 PM

Yes, I believe it's normal for all of them to be on solid, indicates all of the sensors doing their job & everything running fine. I think only when they blink will you have a problem(like the blue one will blink when the ESC does a thermal shutdown when the BL motor gets too hot)....:cool:

Kden46

06-16-2007, 05:34 PM

Much Mahalo's Grizzbob!!! :D

Got to run it last night with no issues so seems all is good!

CharlieS

06-19-2007, 07:45 PM

Charlie@teamnovak.com
Tech@teamnovak.com
cs@teamnovak.com
www.teamnovak.com

Phase is bad, when the motor is stopped the ESC is not able to start the motor, but when it's spinning it will give you partial operation as the remaining working phases are able to keep it rolling.

This has "nothing" to do with it being sensored, just a bad ESC is all.

Thanks Charlie@teamnovak.com

NovakTwo

06-19-2007, 08:35 PM

Just compare the build qullity of a german made brushless motor (hacker,lehner,kontroik etc) to that of the motors from novak and lrp.

Novak and LRP are constrained by a ROAR-mandated MSRP of $129.00.

Are the German motor builders offering their motors for $80.00 to the customers?

Novak motors are high quality, hand wound (in California!) racing products for the price we are allowed to charge.

ElectricThunder

06-19-2007, 10:06 PM

I don't own a Hacker, Lehner, or Neu, but I have to say, the build quality on both my Novak motors is good. Everything came from the factory in tip top shape; even my RMF HV4400 system. For the money, the Novaks are a pretty good deal in my book. I also marvel at how relatively efficient/cool running they are compared to how fast they spin. I've run my 5800 on 12 cells before, and geared pretty normal in a Rustler (so think....heavy truck already, plus an extra battery pack), the motor "only" hit around 170-180F (my MM5700 would run that hot with mashers geared somewhat conservatively). That surprised me to say the least. I figured it would have hit much higher temperatures on a summer day in Florida.

My two cents.

SS Pede

06-20-2007, 10:02 PM

Wow, yeah those temps aren't so bad for an SS5800 on 12 cells! Compared to the temps that people are worried about with Mamba Max systems at least.

ElectricThunder

06-20-2007, 11:00 PM

Tell me about it. My 5800 doesn't hit higher than 135F in my TT-01 on a hot day and after a hard run (using I think a 21 tooth pinion with the stock spur, or whatever the second largest pinion I can use with the stock spur is). Impresses me to say the least.

I may try putting the HV4400 in the TT-01 just for kicks though (dremel work ahoy!). I'd need a 3s lipo...ya know....for fun.:D

Kden46

07-14-2007, 07:46 AM

O.K. I was under the impression that the Newer GTB's that have the Sintered Rotor Motors also had the Lipo Cut Off built in?

But it seems that mine does not as I can not get to the programming mode that allows to turn the Lipo Cut Off on and off?

I am not to worried about it right now as I am not running Lipo with my GTB, but just wanted to know if it is supposed to have the Lipo Cut Off or not?

Grizzbob

07-14-2007, 12:46 PM

Yes, the newer GTB's(both regular & Spread Spectrum) are supposed to have it, but that doesn't mean the store(or online shop) you got it from would have it yet, they might still be going through older inventory. I'd check with whoever you bought it from first, & if neccessary, Novak may be able to help you get the right one....:cool:

Kden46

07-15-2007, 12:48 AM

ElectricThunder

07-15-2007, 01:22 AM

I'm sure they can do something for you on something like "out of warranty" grounds. But if you want to exchange it under warranty, that may be tricky unless you also have the original receipt.

porra

07-15-2007, 02:32 AM

ElectricThunder

07-15-2007, 02:37 AM

It's funny how Novak claims such a high AMP rating for their BL ESC. Has anyone opened one of their GTB ESC to see what kind of FETs it has? If so I would love to have the part number to see some spec on those FETs.

To be fair, it's a "per phase" rating (I'm guessing the "average" rating would be different, and would take into effect most or all of the components, and not just the FETs). Plus, the FETs could be rated up to 1000 amps, but if the traces can't handle it, then it doesn't really matter all too much.

I agree though; someone crack one of them suckers open and let's get an expert's (TheSteve...;)) opinion on what's goin' on in there. They have to be at least pretty decent with only .0003 ohms resistance (little more than the mamba, but still not too shabby considering the motors it can handle relatively well).

porra

07-15-2007, 11:47 AM

The reason why I said that is due to the components it self. Most silicons inside the components can hadle the max rating of the component, but the die can only handle in most cases 100amps maybe a bit more. If somebody has a dead GTB that the warranty expired, like ElectricThunder said, "crack that sucker open" to see what MOSFET makes it tick.

Here is a few links of what might be one of the most powerfull MOSFET out there. It is from International Rectifier, but the size of the components might not fit in the GTB:

https://ec.irf.com/v6/en/US/adirect/ir?cmd=catSearchFrame&domSendTo=byID&domProductQueryName=IRF1324S-7PPBF
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf1324s-7ppbf.pdf
https://ec.irf.com/v6/en/US/adirect/ir?cmd=catProductDetailFrame&productID=IRF2804S-7P
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf2804s-7p.pdf

This one has a different package then the ones above:

https://ec.irf.com/v6/en/US/adirect/ir?cmd=catProductDetailFrame&productID=IRF2804S
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf2804.pdf

NovakTwo

07-15-2007, 01:04 PM

Mahalo's again for the info Grizzbob!

That may be a problem for me as I bought the GTB from a friend. He bought an older GTB 6.5r from a lhs but had to return for another one where he got the newer GTB 6.5r with the sintered rotor. He did'nt need it anymore so sold it off to me for a nice price. But not sure I'll be able to exchange it or send it to Novak for the right one?

Maybe I'll get a reply from one of the Novak guys on here :)

Any GTB built with the lipo cut-off circuitry would have an instruction manual that explains how to enable this feature.

You can replace any GTB speed control (working or not) with any other remanufactured GTB version esc for the Option 1 price:

Novak's Non-Warranty Service Replacement Options (http://www.teamnovak.com/cs/web_options/index.html)

ElectricThunder

07-15-2007, 02:52 PM

Any GTB built with the lipo cut-off circuitry would have an instruction manual that explains how to enable this feature.

You can replace any GTB speed control (working or not) with any other remanufactured GTB version esc for the Option 1 price:

Novak's Non-Warranty Service Replacement Options (http://www.teamnovak.com/cs/web_options/index.html)

I'm curious, is the RMF GTB ESC without lipo cutoff circuitry? I'm assuming they're just "regular" GTBs, am I right? 130 bucks is still a good deal for that thing considering it goes for 175 for the "regular", and close to 200 for the spread spectrum.

Another question; how much cooler does the spread spectrum run vs. the "regular" GTBs? Is there any solid figures that are available?

Thanks NovakTwo.

NovakTwo

07-15-2007, 06:14 PM

I'm curious, is the RMF GTB ESC without lipo cutoff circuitry? I'm assuming they're just "regular" GTBs, am I right? 130 bucks is still a good deal for that thing considering it goes for 175 for the "regular", and close to 200 for the spread spectrum.

Another question; how much cooler does the spread spectrum run vs. the "regular" GTBs? Is there any solid figures that are available?

Thanks NovakTwo.

Actually, there are 5 different GTB speed control versions available as NW service replacements. The "original" GTB without lipo has an Option 1 price of $65. The other 4 versions all have an Option 1 price of $69:

1710 GTB Brushless/Brush ESC-original (also in systems #3000/01/02/03/07) (disc. Apr-07) $65.00

1710-L GTB Brushless/Brush ESC w/LiPo (also in systems #3000/01/02/03/07/08/10/13) $69.00

1711 GTB Spread Spectrum Brushless/Brush ESC w/LiPo $69.00

1714 GTB 4-Cell Brushless/Brush ESC (also in systems #3040/3043) $69.00

1715 GTB 4-Cell Spread Spectrum Brushless/Brush ESC $69.00

I don't have any info on the temp with the GTB SS---e-mail Charlie.

Where did you get the $130 price?

NovakTwo

07-15-2007, 06:32 PM

ElectricThunder

07-15-2007, 07:22 PM

Upon thinking about the $130, this is probably where you saw it:

Novak Electronics RMF GTB Racing Brushless/Brush ESC (http://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=S1710/135.0.7565.0.0.0.0)

This is the original GTB without lipo.

Note: This RMF GTB Racing Brushless ESC does not include the built-in Li-Po circuitry as the Newer version that is currently availalble. To use 2S Li-Po batteries with this ESC, use Novak #5470 Smart-Stop 2-Cell Li-Po Module.

Ok, that's what I was talking about. I wasn't talking about the other options (those just confuse the hell outta me.....:D). I can't believe I missed that part of the description.

Good stuff! Novak is winning me back; my mamba is cool and all, but I think I'm going to go back to my HV ESC and SS5800 (which now has a sintered rotor).:cool:

Kden46

07-18-2007, 07:02 AM

Any GTB built with the lipo cut-off circuitry would have an instruction manual that explains how to enable this feature.

You can replace any GTB speed control (working or not) with any other remanufactured GTB version esc for the Option 1 price:

Novak's Non-Warranty Service Replacement Options (http://www.teamnovak.com/cs/web_options/index.html)

Much Mahalo's for the information!:D

Yah I figured since the manual did'nt have the lipo cut off instructions that the esc probably did'nt have it. Was hoping maybe I just got the wrong manual ;) hehehe

Thanks Again!