1/8 Scale Kyosho Inferno GT to brushless

[seamaster]

hi all

im new in this area , so what should i use for set up to convert my inferno GT ?

motor ?

esc ?

lipol ?

pinon? i have 2 speed in it .

thank you all

[tcolesen]

What's your budget? You may want to consider removing the two-speed, as it might be difficult/expensive to keep it. It also wouldn't be necessary with the brushless.

[seamaster]

ok

about 400us

[seamaster]

how about Mamba Max/CMS-5700/ESC Motor Combo ?

[tcolesen]

The Mamba Max system is meant for 1/10 vehicles.

$400 isn't all that much for a 1/8 conversion. The cheapest items I can think of are:
-Mamba Max ESC (myself and others find this to work in 1/8 applications) $130
-Feigao 540C 8XL (untested as far as I know, but should work) $90
That leaves $180 for batteries (and a charger?). $180 (or as low as $160) would suffice for a Lipo setup, but if you don't already have the charger, then you won't be able to stay at the $400 mark. If you also need a charger and can't allow for a larger budget, you could go with NiMh batteries and a NiMh charger that's compatible with Lipo for the future.

[seamaster]

what pinon should i use ?

[Sedri]

Seamaster,

In case you're still interested in converting a GT, I run a brushless-converted Kyosho Inferno GT, and right now it still has the factory 2-speed intact. I agree with Tcolesen, though - the 2-speed is kind of silly with the rpm spectrum of the brushless set-up versus the nitro; I have plans to pull the 2-speed and go with a single speed set-up. By the way, the brushless GT is insane fun...I hope you are serious about your brushless plans!

[seamaster]

hey

what set up do you use ?

and what pinon do you use ?

any pictures ?

i am still looking for the right things .

thank you

seamaster

[Sedri]

Hey back

I run a Fine Design Kyosho Inferno GT:

1500W 540XL Feigao (Nemesis)
9920 BK Warrior
4S Lipo 400 maH
1st gear, 14/48
2nd gear, 18/44

Pictures, http://www.putfile.com/sedri/images/40019

[BobNovak]

Hey guys we at Novak have converted two different 1/8 Scale buggies. The first project was the OFNA Hyper 7 and the second one is the Kyoshio 777. All we did was build a new motor mount, a center slipper and two battery holders for the batteries. We could use either two six cell Nimh packs or two two cell Li-poly packs. The power plant was the HV 6.5 system. As it turned out both vehicles worked very well and are a lot of fun to drive. Being an 1/8 scale they are also very durable. A couple of months ago Charlie and I took the Kyoshio 777 to the speed run in Fontana and it turned 68 MPH with the 4.5 Turn HV motor. We didn't get a chance to run the 6.5 T motor. I think the 4.5 on a dirt race track would be too much HP. All an all It has been a lot of fun and I am glad that more and more people are trying this. It has been brushless systems that have made this possible. Of course I am partial to the Novak Systems but there are becoming more and more choices out there with both sensored and sensoless, slotted and slotless brushless systems to chose from. This can only help the Hobby in the long run.
Bob Novak

[Sedri]

BobNovak,

Yes, I agree about the 1/8 conversions - I have a Kyosho MP 7.5-based brushless conversion (the FDM Nemesis; sorry - I didn't know about the Novak at the time!) and the durability of a "nitro 1/8" design and components seems a must to withstand the torque and h.p. of such brushless systems! I'd love to see/have a Novak 6.5, 14.8v system in a 1/8 scale to compare it to the same with the Nemesis 540XL that I am running.

Kudos to you and Novak for pursuing this; I don't think the nitro crowd fully understands the talk about brushless vs. nitro - I myself didn't believe a brushless 1/8 scale could beat a 1/8 .21-powered nitro until I drove my FDM Inferno GT - it was just completely nutty fast and nearly impossible to control under full throttle!

[tcolesen]

Hey guys we at Novak have converted two different 1/8 Scale buggies. The first project was the OFNA Hyper 7 and the second one is the Kyoshio 777. All we did was build a new motor mount, a center slipper and two battery holders for the batteries. We could use either two six cell Nimh packs or two two cell Li-poly packs. The power plant was the HV 6.5 system. As it turned out both vehicles worked very well and are a lot of fun to drive. Being an 1/8 scale they are also very durable. A couple of months ago Charlie and I took the Kyoshio 777 to the speed run in Fontana and it turned 68 MPH with the 4.5 Turn HV motor. We didn't get a chance to run the 6.5 T motor. I think the 4.5 on a dirt race track would be too much HP. All an all It has been a lot of fun and I am glad that more and more people are trying this. It has been brushless systems that have made this possible. Of course I am partial to the Novak Systems but there are becoming more and more choices out there with both sensored and sensoless, slotted and slotless brushless systems to chose from. This can only help the Hobby in the long run.
Bob Novak

Bob,

I've read reports of the small 1/8" shafts breaking when used in heavy-duty 1/8 buggies. Have you experienced this at all? I'm also curious to know how hard it would be for you to produce one of the HV motors without the motor shaft reduction, so it would be 5mm in diameter (fits mod1 gears better).

[f2k]

I hope you don't mind me interupting here...

I'm also considering going BL - but with a Storm Racing buggy. I've got a 4.5 BL system, but I'm wondering: how do I mesh it with the center diff of the buggy? Do I need to use the original clutchbell, or can I use a regular pinion? Also, is a "normal" 4.5 system enough to power the buggy, or will I need a tougher system?

[glassdoctor]

You should get a mod1 gear pitch pinion and a plastic spur if the kyosho gears will fit the storm diff.

[Sedri]

f2k,

Different manufacturers have different shaft diameters - the Feigao (Nemesis) motor in my car has the 5mm shaft you are looking for, and Fine Design RC carries the "Nitro conversion" pinions that will direct fit onto the brushless motors. Also, they carry the pinions that will fit the Novak 1/8'' shafts as well. That way, you keep the same center diff spur gear, and then now have a "nitro clutch bell" type pinion gear that is designed to fit correctly.

Fine Design even makes "dual" pinions such as the one in my Kyosho GT so that I can run brushless with the factory GTW20 2-speed tranny.

[Rufus]

Hey guys we at Novak have converted two different 1/8 Scale buggies. The first project was the OFNA Hyper 7 and the second one is the Kyoshio 777. All we did was build a new motor mount, a center slipper and two battery holders for the batteries. We could use either two six cell Nimh packs or two two cell Li-poly packs. The power plant was the HV 6.5 system. As it turned out both vehicles worked very well and are a lot of fun to drive. Being an 1/8 scale they are also very durable. A couple of months ago Charlie and I took the Kyoshio 777 to the speed run in Fontana and it turned 68 MPH with the 4.5 Turn HV motor. We didn't get a chance to run the 6.5 T motor. I think the 4.5 on a dirt race track would be too much HP. All an all It has been a lot of fun and I am glad that more and more people are trying this. It has been brushless systems that have made this possible. Of course I am partial to the Novak Systems but there are becoming more and more choices out there with both sensored and sensoless, slotted and slotless brushless systems to chose from. This can only help the Hobby in the long run.
Bob Novak

Aha!, now I'm beginning to like the idea of getting a 4.5...
but as it has been asked previosuly, I would be concerned about the 1/8 shaft, and also about extended runtimes (heat)... Hope you guys can address those questions as well...
and a conversion kit from novak would not hurt either :)
The HV could become the ideal platform for 1/8 !

[f2k]

f2k,

Different manufacturers have different shaft diameters - the Feigao (Nemesis) motor in my car has the 5mm shaft you are looking for, and Fine Design RC carries the "Nitro conversion" pinions that will direct fit onto the brushless motors. Also, they carry the pinions that will fit the Novak 1/8'' shafts as well. That way, you keep the same center diff spur gear, and then now have a "nitro clutch bell" type pinion gear that is designed to fit correctly.

Fine Design even makes "dual" pinions such as the one in my Kyosho GT so that I can run brushless with the factory GTW20 2-speed tranny.

Hmm, I'm hearing a lot about Feigao - are they really that good?

The system I bought is a used Novak BL. Isn't that usable for a 1/8 buggy?

[Sedri]

f2k,

"Good" is a bit of a difficult question to answer simply - there are, perhaps, at least three parts to that answer:

1. cost - the Feigao (or, Nemesis, which is the "blue can" version of the Feigao) is considerably less expensive compared to other brands such as Hacker for a similar motor

2. performance - I can only vouch for my Nemesis 540 XL, which has, for my car, an insane amount of torque and power - er, that is, it has ~2 hp @1500 watts on a 14.8 Lipo battery pack.

3. quality/durability - as of yet, this I don't know. I've heard said that the Hacker motors, although more expensive, have superior reliablity, including a capacity to deal with higher sustained rpm's. I've heard people say that their Nemesis 540's came apart - that is, self-destructed - when pushed past 50,000 rpm for too long. For me, this is not a danger, as my brushless setup hits only around 40,000 - 42,000 rpm's at maximum voltage from the 4S (14.8 volts) battery I use.

Is your Novak useable? You ought to shoot that question at BobNovak! It will depend on the type of motor you have:

540S ?
540L ?
540XL ?

I bet he can set you up with the info you need...

[killaj]

Hey guys, check out this thread:

http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?t=225698

There is a lot of good information about how different brushless systems work in 1/8 scale applications.

[f2k]

Sedri,

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to you. But uni has been killing me lately - way to much homework to do...

Anyway, the system I bought is a GTB 4.5. It's only capable of handling 6 cells, but I figured that I wouldn't be able to fit more cells into the car anyway...

However, I've talked with my local RC-pusher about the possibility of using a prop-adapter fra an airplane to mount the clutch bell onto the motor. It should work, but he was very hesitant about it and wondered if not the motor would be working way to hard. Well, I've never tried to power a 1/8 scale car with electrics before so I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but given the large increase in rotating mass I'm inclined to believe him.

Is he right? And if he is, then what can I do?

I was thinking of dropping the front and center diff and then use an E-Maxx gearbox to drive the rear wheels. With two GTBs driving the gearbox, the car should still be plenty fast without the motors getting too heated. Or...?

[chilledoutuk]

mamba max + feigoa 540c motor = a setup that will work in 1/8th
Novak GTB 4.5 = NO chance in 1/8th

[BobNovak]

Bob,

I've read reports of the small 1/8" shafts breaking when used in heavy-duty 1/8 buggies. Have you experienced this at all? I'm also curious to know how hard it would be for you to produce one of the HV motors without the motor shaft reduction, so it would be 5mm in diameter (fits mod1 gears better).
Sorry for not getting back sooner but we are crazy busy here at Novak trying to keep up with all the brushless orders. No I have not broken any of the 1/8" shafts. I think it is because of the center slipper that we designed and built for the vehicle. I have heard of this problem ( fortunately there hasn't been that many) and we have talked about going to the larger 5mm output shaft but since the system is designed mainly for the E-Maxx which under certain circumstances would not allow the E-Maxx to be geared low enough using the 5mm gears. Thus we would have to make this an upgrade kit with a different rotor and front end bell with the larger bearing.
Bob

[tcolesen]

Sorry for not getting back sooner but we are crazy busy here at Novak trying to keep up with all the brushless orders. No I have not broken any of the 1/8" shafts. I think it is because of the center slipper that we designed and built for the vehicle. I have heard of this problem ( fortunately there hasn't been that many) and we have talked about going to the larger 5mm output shaft but since the system is designed mainly for the E-Maxx which under certain circumstances would not allow the E-Maxx to be geared low enough using the 5mm gears. Thus we would have to make this an upgrade kit with a different rotor and front end bell with the larger bearing.
Bob

What is the "average" guy supposed to do who can't get a slipper setup (not saying I can't) and wants to use one of your motors? I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to sell a different version of the motor/rotor, and I would think that the 5mm motor/rotor would be less expensive than the 1/8" version because less machining has to be done to the rotor.

[vad]

Anyone have an idea how to make one of these slipper clutch systems to install into an IGT or mp-777?

[killaj]

I have an idea and wondered why it hasn't been done before (or at least not posted)..

Why not machine a shaft that is large enough to go over the electric motor shaft and secure with a set screw, while the other end of the shaft is shaped to accomodate a normal flywheel, clutchbell and clutch shoes. Obviously the flywheel could be machined to cut down on rotating mass. With all the different types of clutch shoes and springs, traction could be optimized. As well, there would no longer be a need to buy plastic spur gears or constantly replace "hardened" pinions..