New project to start soon :)

[glassdoctor]

That's all I can say right now... ha ha ha...........

New car to convert... will post pics when some progress is made.

:wave:

[tcolesen]

1/5 scale? 1/8 scale on-road?

[glassdoctor]

Not too far from my other stuff.... another 1/8 offroad.

Although a 4wd 1/8 on road wouls be really cool. Delta Mfg. is here in my hometown so a 70+mph BL Delta would be sweet.

Update soon................................... :D

[ElectricThunder]

What a coinky dink. I'm planning out a project too. However...it's not brushless:( (at least once it's done it won't start with a BL motor.... However...! :bang: ).

[glassdoctor]

Eight

[glassdoctor]

A few pics of the project. The layout shown here is just a rough idea... I have changed a few things... the battery will be forward more and the esc will probably go behind the battery so the wires can be nice and short.

The layout is actually balanced pretty well, although that's the biggest problem with a layout like this. I'll have to deal with it but it's close enough to work well I think. This setup gives the most options for battery size. It's about the only way to go that will let me use standard size packs.

Check out the size of the steering blocks with XX$ ones. :eek:

I almost have the motor mount done... but there is a lot of work to do. And I might do two different layouts while I'm at it... maybe.

Gotta get back to work...

[schenck77]

now that should be sweet. I finally saw the losi eight in person this weekend and it looked great. Only thing is I am an electric guy. with the price of lipos coming down and the mamba maxx it might make me try something like this.

[GTB_USER_ERIK]

:teacher: Keep us abrest on the progress Doctor

[glassdoctor]

I got the motor mounted... that's the biggie. Pics tomorrow...

I decided to keep this basic layout for a number of reasons, mostly due to simplicity of the conversion. So I can repeat it without too much labor. I'm keeping the diff in it's stock location... no drilling new holes in the chassis and no modded driveshafts, etc.

It's not easy to compromise but I want it done kinda quick and painless while still "working" well.

[glassdoctor]

Sorry guys... I have some pics I need to post and updates..

I already have at least a couple buddies who want to do a car like this for next summer so we can throw down....

[GTB_USER_ERIK]

Hey Glassdoctor.
I do not regonize that chassis, What is it???

[glassdoctor]

Sorry... did I not say what it is? :cool: Losi 8ight....

The pics above show how the parts are similar to the losi xx4 parts, only gigantic :)

Let me get some updated pics here...

[glassdoctor]

:teacher: "pretty pimp no?" :D

[schenck77]

looks great keep us updated. also did you make the motor mount? thanks

[Rtsbasic]

Looking sweet :) Is that a mamba I see in the corner :D I like the motor mount, so simple, but looks like it'll work great.

Looks like you might wanna run another strap to make sure the battery doesn't eject sideways though, with a battery that tall it looks like a distinct possibility.

[GTB_USER_ERIK]

How is the balance??
It looks heavy on the one side. I see you dremal-ed out an area for the spur, Yes?
Simple lay-out I like it.
Keep us up-dated.

[glassdoctor]

I'll let you guess which side is the slightly heavier side.... might surprise you.

That tiny green thing in the corner is indeed a MM. Must have done something wrong to get stuck in the corner like that. hee hee

Yes, the battery will be secured before running, either will a side strap or little bumper like on my other car. Plus it will have velcro on the bottom that makes it almost impossible to move anyway. If there is one thing you want to do, it's protect a $200 twinkie-tough battery. :D

Yep the spur area was "dremeled" with a pnuematic cutoff wheel... 3" I think... first time I think I have ever used real air tools on a r/c. :huh:

[GTB_USER_ERIK]

You'er saying the Motor side is the Heavy side??
But it looks like you have 2 packs there??
What gives...

[glassdoctor]

Yep, the motor side is actually the heavy side as it sits. Of course the balance depends on the size/weight of the battery but with a 6000-8000 4s lipo as shown, the lipo side is lighter. The battery in the pic is a pair of 2s 6000s (saddle pack configuration for the 777 buggy)... in series for 4s 6000.

I think it will be dead by replacing the 1515 with a 1512... and 8000mah lipos.

I really want to try the Kokam 4800s in 4s but they are lighter yet and I don't think they would make 30 minutes.

If I could I would love to try a 1509 and the Kokams... a light fast setup good for 20 min I would guess.

[trd]

hey doc may I ask you how much do these conversions actually run?

[glassdoctor]

About the same as a high end .21/clutch and throttle servo ;)

The stuff I have:
Speedo: $135 (about cheapest controller out there but very good)
Motor: $225 (you can go cheap here but I don't recomend it)
Bec unit: $15
Battery: $150

I make the motor and battery mounts etc: $0 usually.

Making the nitro guys say it's not fair they have to race against you: Priceless.

[trd]

About the same as a high end .21/clutch and throttle servo ;)

The stuff I have:
Speedo: $135 (about cheapest controller out there but very good)
Motor: $225 (you can go cheap here but I don't recomend it)
Bec unit: $15
Battery: $150

I make the motor and battery mounts etc: $0 usually.

Thanks for the heads up doc! And yeah it is the same as a high end .21 because thats how much I spent on my 1/8th buggy.

Awesome work doc!

[glassdoctor]

I edited the above post... added one more line. :teacher:

[schenck77]

good to hear that the weight is pretty even with the 4s 6000mah pack. I am really interested in this setup and currently have 2 8000mah maxamps that i would like to use. I look forward to seeing your buggy all finished and hear how it compares to the nitro version.

[schenck77]

any updates? have you tried it on the track yet?

[glassdoctor]

actually yes.. I did a little track time with it at a race last weekend. It runs really good. I put the 1512 in it and a maxamps 8000mah pack. It feels pretty balanced and it worked great ont he track.

The track was new to me and it was a loose and not swept etc and it was pretty big... not what I'm used to running on. But the car is very good... I ran it geared 15/46 and it still had too much punch for the conditions... way more than the nitros that's for sure. :D

Top end with this setup was close to the fast nitros but not the fastest car on the track I don't think. I had some guys that hadn't seen me run before say they couldn't believe how fast it was....

I had to bail early so I didn't get as much feedback as I wanted and didn't get video like I planned either... bummer.

I'll get some updated pics etc and hopefully I can race agian before long.

The outdoor season is done now and the nearest indoor 1/8 track is 200miles away... but I will make it there again sometime....

[schenck77]

good to hear that its working good. I am currently doing a hyper 8 but am waiting for my motor mount and 4s pack from truerc.

[H-Trainer]

Hello Glassdoctor,

I must say you've done a great job on this conversion, looks very clean.

I've got some ideas for a conversion myself and am in the process of researching the subject.
What is a "standard size battery" for you? (in metric if possible).

The Neu motor seems to habe an open front, is this no problem for offroad use? What is the maximum power output of these motors?
What kind of power do these Ultra Plugs stand up to? I was plannung to use 4 mm gold connectors to make series wiring easier.

I'm interested in converting a 1/8 buggy and would like it to be competitive on the race track (<4 kg, if possible <3.5 kg, up to ~60 km/h) and have crazy power for bashing. How much power does a 1/8 buggy need for that?

What points do you have to keep in mind to get an efficient power plant? (e.g. maximum revs on the motor, more vs less windings, high volt vs high ampère etc.)

What is the difference between a 250€ Lehner or Hacker motor and a 110€ Wanderer (or Feigao) motor that would justify the price? (more efficient, better quality,...)

I hope you don't mind answering so many question, I would really appreciate it.

Greetings,

Thomas

[schenck77]

question about the motor mount. Did you make the whole mount or just dremeled it up from something that is used on the gas version?

[glassdoctor]

"standard" battery to me is one similar to a 6 cell nimh pack... there are many lipo cells in this @ 45mmx140mm range.

My buggies tip the scales at 3.6kg with the 8000mah lipo (that's 8lbs for us americans :) )... I need to check the 8ight again, it should be just under 8lbs actually...

The real efficiency is based on the quality/design of the motor... some motors are just more efficient (neu/pletty) than others (feigao/hacker imo) and so they run cooler and are easier on the esc. Some say the lehners are very good also. The Feigaos are a Chinese knock-off of the Hackers... most guys have no problems with them. For $90 it's hard to complain, and a good place to start on a budget. I think the Neu and Lehners are worth the cost esp if you want to get long runtimes.

Just don't go too "hot" with a motor. A low-wind/high rpm (high kv) motor draws a lot more current than a lower kv motor. I think some, myself included, have gotten into trouble trying to use a hot motor.

I've been using motors rated just under 2000kv... and rated 90%+ efficient.

schenck, I made the motor mount from scrap carbon fiber pieces I got from a local shop... 6mm thick. It is bolted to the center diff mount with three screws, and I put one screw coming up through the chassis (under where the motor is)

[schenck77]

okay now that I look closer I can tell you bolted it to the diff mount. at first I thought it was all one unit. anyways the buggy looks really good, think I will have to do one. currently I have a hyper 8 but thnk I would prefer to go to the losi.

[H-Trainer]

Thanks for the answers so far. ... You missed some ;)

The Neu motor seems to habe an open front, is this no problem for offroad use? What is the maximum power output of these motors?

What kind of power do these Ultra Plugs stand up to? I was plannung to use 4 mm gold connectors to make series wiring easier.

[glassdoctor]

haa haa

IMO the open can is not a big deal, although I would prefer a sealed can. We have been racing open can brushed motors for many years... I have never had a problem with those. I cover the holes with some tape just to be safe. Others have made a little lexan cover for them.

I don't know the exact ratings for the 1512 and 1515 but it's around 2000W.

IMO the Ultras and 4mm golds are both very good... never seen either one ever get warm/ not handle the power etc. I use Ultras on the battery and 4mm on the motor. I have even used 3.5mm on the motor and they worked fine. Just be careful with polarity if you use golds on the battery. ;)

[nicholcgn]

Any updates on this. Have you been running it? How is it holding up?

[Rotary Rocket]

Doc, really nice set up...totally different. I'm still amazed that no manufacturer has picked up on this market opportunity!

Do you have a Plete motor? If yes, how do you like the Nue vs. Plete?

I need a good motor for my BL e-maxx on 4s 8000.

[glassdoctor]

Thanks...

No, I never got a Pletty... wish I had one to compare but I doubt I'll get one at this point. I like the Neu, esp since there are more kv choices and sizes to choose from.

[glassdoctor]

It works great.... but I haven't run it much. Outdoor racing season is over. I raced a few weeks ago but had some issues I think were battery related but I haven't been able to mess with it since to see what's up.

But the car, setup, etc is very good. :)

[fourfun]

Hi I am new on this website. doc, that very nice set up. i have ultra lx comp and want to conversion to bl. I decide don't want nitro anymore. why? because i am deaf and i have really hard time to tune up the nitro. i always took it to hobby or track have the people listen and tune up for me until i saw this bl 1/8 buggy and i say to my self wow i will never have to mess with the tune up again lol. ultra lx comp good? can turn to bl? thank nick :D

[socalBash]

fourfun ...

Id suggest dressing up that Ultra LX and selling it on ebay - then, use the proceeds from that to aquire a good used Hyper 8 or Hyper 7 rolling chassis and hen convert THAT to brushless. Ultra is a pretty dated chassis design - Hyper 7 is getting to that point as well.

I suggested those two - as there is still parts abundance, and theyre both still fairly competitive buggies - the Hyper 8 especially [love that ride!]

talk to member SCYAN in these forums - he makes some nice conversion kits and mounts. Supre nice guy - even though he is Canadian :-) j/k SCY!!!!

[Muck]

Hi I am new on this website. doc, that very nice set up. i have ultra lx comp and want to conversion to bl. I decide don't want nitro anymore. why? because i am deaf and i have really hard time to tune up the nitro. i always took it to hobby or track have the people listen and tune up for me until i saw this bl 1/8 buggy and i say to my self wow i will never have to mess with the tune up again lol. ultra lx comp good? can turn to bl? thank nick :D

One of the challenges with the Ultra LX is that the chassis is so narrow. I have one of the old LX buggies that I setup as a secondary buggy. It only has enough room for one battery pack (unless you get real creative). I always have trouble with my lipo pack over heating at the end of the run. There are some new generation packs that might be good for this setup. Otherwise it's not too bad. One really good thing about it is that it is fairly light weight. I don't race it so I don't know how competitive it would be, but it is a really fun setup to drive, because it is so light wieght.

I'm using a Mamba Max controller and a Neu 1512- 2000 kv motor. The lipo is a 4s Kokam 3200.

[schenck77]

car looks great. I just picked up the rtr 8ight and will be converting it similar to yours. the only thing I think I will change is trying to get the esc away from the battery. Will probably end up switching its location with the receiver.

[Demon-TC3]

Hi guys,
been following this thread and am a little bit of a newb when it comes to BL technology...

well i am thinkin of converting a 8th scale BL but before i even consider buying anythin i want to know what there is...so far i have justified that the MAMBA MAX is the ESC to get and the price seems reasonable...jut wondering why it is so cheap in comparison with other esc's out there and if it really is safe to use it for 1/8 scale use?

As for a Motor i was looking at the Feigo motors.
i am wondering about the numbering of these motors, is it the same as the brushed technology where higher turns translates to more torque but less revs? if so if i want to make a truggy basher, what motor should i be looking at, (running on 2 packs of 6 cell MAXAMPS 4k nimh cells). would teh Feigo 540 10l motor be a good move or would i be looking at the feigo XL range of motors?

I dont mind if its not the fastest thing in the world, if it has some descent torque and can have nitro - resembling speed im happy!

(sorry to bring back an old-ish thread and ask so many questions but after a week of reading threads i decided to ask a question)

[alpinesky1]

glassdoctor , i want to do the same.... help heres what im doing it for...look here for my story,
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?p=2239335#post2239335 ,
i want to make my losi 8ight t truggy brushless/lipo, im getting the mamba max esc, and im a quadrapaligic/handycap so its hard for me to start my nitro truggy and tune it/i always need some with me to help start,tune,etc.
so i really want to turn my losi truggy into brushless/lipo and run like the nitro engines/or faster... i need some help

[GSMnow]

Here is a link to a JPG of the Feigao brushless motor spec page.

http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/85838/692728/0/1082223033.jpg

If you open it in a large window or print it, you can read the numbers. These are all 36 mm OD in the three lengths S, L, and XL. The number down the left side, from 6 to 34 is the number of turns just like a brushed motor, but that does not tell the whole story. Like a brush motor, more turns will give more torque for a given current, but will also turn less rpm. Low turn motors pull huge currents and are very hard on ESC's and batteries. With brushless motors, the losses are far less, and you can calculate a fair idea of performance from the other constants. The RPM/V or KV gives you a good idea how fast it will turn for a given voltage supply. By definition, this is without load, but with very low resistance in your batteries, ESC, and motor, you can get pretty close to the theoretical rpms.

This is an approximate constant for any highly efficient brushless motor. 1352 / kv = oz in of torque per amp.

The IO(A) is the current it takes to spin the motor with no load, so the output torque is from the current over the IO(A) figure.

Let's take the 13S for example (easy to read off the first column)

13 turns, max current 50 amps, 0.016 ohms , 2730 KV and 2.0 amp IO.

So on a 4S LiPo (22.2 volts nominal) you will get about 60,606 rpm volts x KV

1352 / 2730 = 0.495 oz in / amp
At the constant rated 50 amps that would be 24.7 oz in.

50 x 22.2 = 1110 watts into the system, or about 1.3 hp give or take some efficiency and losses. The IO of 2 amps takes away about 1 oz in of torque, so lets say you still have 23 oz in making it through the gears.

1/8th buggies run tires about 4.4 inches tall. So if we gear for 50 mph top end you need to spin those tires at 3820 rpm. 60,000 / 3820 = 15.7 overall gear ratio, or 23 x 15.7 = 360 oz in at the wheels. 360 / 2.2 (tire radius) = 164 oz of push, or over 10 pounds of thrust on an 8 pound car, or better than 1G acceleration from basically a stand still to 40 mph or so, and it will keep pulling hard to about 50 mph. All on just 50 amps so you can get away with 10C 8000mah LiPos and run for a good long time.

This looks like a pretty good fit for a fair performing 1/8 buggy, not a rocket though. At 50 amps, the motor IR of 0.016 will disipate 40 watts of heat off of the motor can, not bad for an 1100 watt system.

I went through the math to show you how to work it for other motors. Basically, if you can top 1G, it will drive. My 1/10 truck is over 2G and is a total rocket with wheelspin or wheelies at will and a 34 mph top end using the MM5700 package on 6 cell NiMh.

[alpinesky1]

can you calcuate the 8XL for me? im looking at this motor on 4s lipo 8000mah on a mamba max. this is what im looking to put in my losi 8ight T Truggy....
btw i just got the mm5700 for my t3... now want to make my 8ight T be as fast if not faster then a modded .28/3+hp...