45 Minute E-Truggy Project???

[Craps]

OK! I am asking here some opinions with money as no object on what will be the best parts to use to build a first class E-Truggy?

I was think of either starting with the new Mugen Prospec CRT or even waiting on the new Losi 8ight truggy to come out with a great centerline of weight distribution?

As far as motor goes I was thinking of a Plettenberg Big Maximum with the fan to cool it built in the motor.

Batteries I was wanting to parralel to 2 Polyquest 5S1P 5000 mah packs to give me 10,000 mahs of run time. These packs are suppose to have 5000 mah with one single cell. The packs would be mounted on each side of the truggy to balance it out.

The big question is what ESC to use? I was considering the Schulze 40.160W or the 32.170W, but is there anything else that can handle this kind of abuse in a smaller package and easier to mount. I have owned a 40.160 that I had in my 1/8th scale buggy that was large and was really difficult to mount in a tight area, but the truggy has alot more room. Any other suggestions on ESCs?

I will custom fabricate a motor mount for it and should have no problem finding pinion gears for it now.

OK give me some suggestions on my winter time E-Truggy project?? Criteria has to be to blow everything off the track and do it for at least 45 minutes non-stop!!! This will be a race vehicle and not built to bash around.

PS. Don't anybody suggest anything Chris Fine sells with Fine Design, I would perfer to deal with more reputable people in the RC business!!!!

[tcolesen]

MGM makes a controller that can do 16 NiMh cells/5s Lipo and is rated at 160amps. They also make a 24 NiMh cell/8s Lipo version. Both should be quite a bit smaller.
The specs on the 16016:
http://www.mgm-compro.com/index.php?tid=brushless-controllers-tmm-16016-3-car-boat
Unfortunately they don't have specs on the 16024.


http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=TMM160123sHCS01
http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=TMM160243sHCS01

[RobK]

Craps--I know you know your Lipo stuff (you convinced me to make the switch last year :), but are you sure those packs can supply the amps that moter needs, especially surges? Are you going to run 10s1P or 5s2p with 2 packs?

-Rob

[tcolesen]

Those packs he posted are rated at 20C continuous. He'll be using two cells in parallel, which will give a 200amp continuous rating for the pack, and would be very capable of bursts to 300amps assuming that the wires and connectors could take that much current.

[RobK]

Oh ok, that makes sense--sounds great, actually!

-Rob

[Hingepin]

oh man craps is at it again

[glassdoctor]

Hey Craps welcome back. I already have a first class "45 minute" truggy. :D

I have run it well over 30 min and estimate runtime right at 45 min, but never actually ran a 45 min race with it.

I suggest looking into the Neu motors, and the Quark 125B for your setup. This controller has been working very well for some in trucks like this and it can do 5s.

Believe it or not, I would recomend trying the Mamba Max if you run 4s... I have no idea what would happen to it on 5s though.

My setup:
Jammin X1CRT
Neu 1515 (1700kv)
Mamba Max w/ubec
Maxamps 4s 12000mah
geared 12-14 pinion with a 49T plastic center gear

Here's a thread from when I first got the truck built... pics don't show the electrics etc I run in it now. I need to find some more recent ones...

[Craps]

Thanks for the info everyone!

I am leaning towards the new yet to be released truggy with the better center of gravity than anything else out along with Adam Drake winning the Nats today with the prototype.

The MGM esc looks like a better esc than the schulze. I quess I will need to take a UBEC to use on which ever esc I go with.

Motor wise, I don't know the Neu motors that good, but the Plettenberg Big Maximum is a 6 pole motor with a built in cooling fan that is designed for a 5 cell li-po system. The more poles the smoother the motor and the easier it will be to drive.

Battery wise I want the 5 cells because I have used 4 cells that was not enough and went to 6 cells that was too much, so I am going to settle on 5 cells with 10,000 mahs backing it up.

Keep the ideas coming everyone, this will be a winter time project for me.

[GTB_USER_ERIK]

Oh :teacher: 's
I have no ideas to add, but I do watch and read everything you all post here, so I can use the knowlage my self, So I wait with baited breath for more :wave:
Peace and Goodwill

[glassdoctor]

Craps I have my eye on that new truck too. :D

The Neu motors are very high quality and very effecient. We have just recently started using them in our conversions. The 160mph car you saw at the speed challenge ran Neu 1509. THey have a bunch of open holes in the enbells you have to seal off to keep dirt out but other than that they are awesome. Of course the Plettys are good also. I had wanted a Maxximum for a long time but now I don't need it... ha ha.

I'm curious what you had your old buggy geared at with that C50 10XL when it was on 4s lipos. It's a 1600ish kv motor... and it would have to be geared really tall to get some top end out of it. My 1900kv motor is geared 14/46 and only hits low 30s, which is fine for my small track. Geared 18/46 (huge pinion) it runs 43mph and is a nitro killer. More than enough power and speed to make the nitros jealous.

I agree that more volts is better... in fact 6s is what I plan to go to once the Mamba Monster is out assuming it can do 6s. You just need a lower kv motor for 6s... something in the 1200-1500kv range.

I don't like the 5s just because it's an odd # and can be a pain for running saddle packs like we do. My motor would like 5s though...

I'm partial to the Mambas, but... since you need 5s...

I would go MGM before a Schulze. There have been serious brake issues with MGMs but that is supposed to be fixed or non-existent on the new models. I have an old style MGM120 that has horrible brakes... it's tolerable for bashing but impossible to race. IMO their amp ratings are a bit overrated... Other than that the controller is smooth.

[superchief]

Has anyone tried this controller? Power Jazz 63V I remember seeing this posted along time ago but, I don't think it is available over in the U.S..

http://www.kontronik.com/index2e.htm

[Muck]

I'm a little leary of the MGM now since I've owned their controller and it kind of sucked. The whole non-freewheel freewheel was tough to drive. I will say that my mgm esc ran fairly cool but, I would want to hear from someone that their controllers were great before I sent money their way again. I could send my unit in to have it updated, but I'm not sure it is worth it. Also, I didn't like how the 3.5mm plugs came out occasionally. It was a little frustrating.

[cart213]

Just an fyi, but the Neu motors are four-pole and are really smooth. I've got a newly converted Thunder Tiger ST-1 truggy with a Quark 125B and a Neu 1512 (2000kv) motor geared 46/16. I'm running 4s2p A123 cells right now, which gives me a top speed of 38 mph, great for racing. I plan to add a third 2s2p pack for bashing only that will give me a 6s2p setup that should run almost 60 mph. Btw, since the voltage of the A123 cells is lower than lipo, a 6s A123 is roughly equivalent to a 5.5s lipo, if such a thing existed.

Here's a few pics:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/cart213/DSC02938.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/cart213/DSC02940.jpg

[GTB_USER_ERIK]

Cart
that is a very nice layout in that vehicle, Which one is it????

[cart213]

Thunder Tiger ST-1 truggy

[Shawn Palmer]

Craps - there are no better truggy motors than Neu right now. Long term power without generating excess heat needs an insanely efficient motor, and the Neu's fit that bill. You'll pay for them, but the best is always worth it.

I'd give a serious look at the Kokam America packs for the same reasons. Long runtimes, lots of power, no worries about longevity and being "optomistically" rated. glassdoctor is helping us with a truggy conversion, and those are the packs going in it ("undisclosed" cell counts of Kokam America 2p 3200's and single p 4800's) for Monster Max testing.

Shawn

[GTB_USER_ERIK]

Cart
Thanks

[glassdoctor]

Sweet... I've been talking to Kokam but haven't got anything yet.

I have run my truggy for 30+ minutes non stop on the track and the motor and esc temps peaked around 160 if I recall and was actually lower right at the end of the run. (with one fan blowing on both)

That's a far cry from thernalling at the 6 or 7 minute mark with my previous setup... Mtroniks truck and Hacker motor

[cart213]

So far I've run my quark/neu truggy for 20 minutes non-stop with no thermalling. The quark doesn't even get hot, just warm. It is bolted directly to the chassis, which acts like a giant heat sink.

[glassdoctor]

Nice... that's what I was doing with the Mtroniks and it seemed to help a lot. I used some cheapo thermal paste between the case and chassis too.

[starluckrc]

Hey Craps.....I'm back from vacation now. The Maxximum/BigMaxximum motors worked well at RC Madness. I have a 5S5000mah pack here for my next round of truggy testing since the Quark didn't like 6S very well. I also have a new truggy project in the works that you may be interested in. I'm hoping to hear from Shawn soon too (hint, hint). Just give me a call when you get a chance.

[jhbronx]

I don't see how one can make use of the Losi 8ight truggy's weight distribution for Brushless. The motor would be more centered but the batteries would be even more off center than a conventional 1/8th scale buggy.

[glassdoctor]

It's not ideal... but it can be done a couple of ways. I'm doing an 8ight and it's actually balanced pretty well. It just looks funny imo... but it works.

[nicholcgn]

Well start a thread on the 8. It would be interesting to see. I would also like to dee runtimes and handling opinions.

[glassdoctor]

I have one... "New project to start soon :)"

maybe I can change the title now.....?

[Craps]

Hey Craps.....I'm back from vacation now. The Maxximum/BigMaxximum motors worked well at RC Madness. I have a 5S5000mah pack here for my next round of truggy testing since the Quark didn't like 6S very well. I also have a new truggy project in the works that you may be interested in. I'm hoping to hear from Shawn soon too (hint, hint). Just give me a call when you get a chance.

Jamie
What ESC do you recommend with the 2 5S5000 packs together to make 10,000 mahs using the Big Maxxximum with the fan? MGM, Mamba, Schulze, Quark...????

I am considering making some extra diff tower mounts for the Losi that will be replacing the current diff tower with a new one that is going to be one piece of metal incorporating the motor mount and will have a cap to access the center diff real easy. There will need to be 1 hole drilled in the chassis for additional support of the mount. Is there any interest in these?

[scoob]

Jamie

I am considering making some extra diff tower mounts for the Losi that will be replacing the current diff tower with a new one that is going to be one piece of metal incorporating the motor mount and will have a cap to access the center diff real easy. There will need to be 1 hole drilled in the chassis for additional support of the mount. Is there any interest in these?

Tim, I would love to build one but I just don't have the funds right now. I definately want to check yours out when you get it done. You think these guys around here will let you race with them?

[Craps]

Tim, I would love to build one but I just don't have the funds right now. I definately want to check yours out when you get it done. You think these guys around here will let you race with them?

Local club races Yes, Big point/money races No!

On Carolinasrc, they are giving me a hard time, but don't mean it and they know club racing is just for FUN. Besides driver is 80% of it on off road no matter what kind of fuel or motor is used. I will make stop and go 5 second pit stops just like they do to make it fair.

[chilledoutuk]

it can never be fair really as there cars are continuasly getting lighter whereas yours stays the same weight all the time which could be an advantage or disadvantage.

Nothing stopping them from getting bigger tanks and going the whole race on one fill unless thats against the rules which is proberly is knowing nitro.

[JDT]

Nothing stopping them from getting bigger tanks and going the whole race on one fill unless thats against the rules which is proberly is knowing nitro.

This is what I argued before also, if an electric guy gets a bigger battery they need to get a bigger tank, lots of friction around here most of the guys winning are using nitro cars but eyes have been opened by some recent conversions and around here its basically a pow wow before the race to decide if mandatory stops are going to be required for bl lipo cars, IMO this sucks, there lack of preperation is not my responsibility, some of them big old airplane tanks would hold enough nitro for an hour long main lol.

[kvrc]

one thing to consider on the pit stops or not thing. if there are only one or two electrics in a feild of 20 or so cars then you should play by their rules. i race a "revolt", electric revo in my local monster class. i am the only one of about 20 trucks so i gladly play by their rules. if the time comes where there are only a few gas and most of the cars are electric then they should play by the rules set for electric as closely as possible.
if you dont beat them by their rules, they will never give electrics any respect.

[chilledoutuk]

ok in that case the only answer is to use lighter lower capacity cells with very high discharge rates and then use the pit stops to change the packs.
Obviously you would need to make a quick release mechanism for the packs.

even if you didnt use lighter packs you could alternatively gear higher or use a more power motor and then swap for a new pack at these stops.

[JDT]

if you dont beat them by their rules, they will never give electrics any respect.


I think the forced pitting is a sign of respect, they know the future is upon us and it isn't nearly as noisy as they would like.

[ScottB32]

Ithe future is upon us

I can't agree more. This forum has impressed/overwhelmed me with the engineering skill on display. I forgot where I saw it (I think it was evworld.com - electric full size cars), but new battery technology is making electric vehicles close to equal with gas cars if range is limited to 150 miles (cost aside). The fact that electric rc cars are keeping up/surpassing rc gas cars is a reflection of this. Great work - this makes me want to jump aboard the electric band-wagon.

[JDT]

glassdoctors 777 was the first conversion I saw in person, I got to see it after the mm and neu motor and it was faster than any buggy I have ever saw on the street or track, it had crazy power, able to drift on concrete at will, donuts so hard it looked like a helicopter taking off after about five rotations. I only saw his jammin truggy in mock up form for some light running and it seemed to have good power and that was when he had the 1512 in there, the 1515 has to be better.

[Ball Racing]

I have 10XL, is that enough power for say a LST conversion, if I don't care about lots of MPH?
Thanks.

[Reinhard]

for the controller:

there is the new Kontronik 63Volt-controller..

so: instead of using 5s 10000mah and sucking some SERIOUS amps
go for a Neu-Motor and 10s 5000mAh

besides:
the Kontronik Power-Jazz can handle
63Volt (45 NiMh-cells, or 15s Lipo)
120A continouse (for time of 2400mAh)
200A for 15 seconds
its http://www.kontronik.com/Grafik2006/PowerJazz800.jpg

the Jazz is "verpolsicher" (when you mix up plus and minus it will not go up in smoke) - Reverse polarity protection
and Short circuit protection
and the Jazz is 100% water-proof

price is also nice for such a controller..
(considere: 63Volt and 200A peak --> that are 12000WATT Peakpower !!)

your truggy would run great with a 10s setup
50A peaks would be equivalent to 1750Watt !

oh.. and maybe there is a special car-version of the Power-jazz also coming