Fuel-Cell Powered R/C Car On Tap For 2007

[B4Maz]

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/15/0,1425,i=159210,00.jpg

"Horizon Fuel Cell Technologies is developing a drop-in, hydrogen-powered fuel-cell unit to replace a standard battery pack in a popular line of 1/10th-scale remote-control cars."

Full Article here (http://mazdeathblossom.blogspot.com/2006/12/fuel-cell-powered-rc-car-on-tap-for.html)

[evst 360]

Coooooooool!!!!! Ever since I got a fuel cell kit for christmas, I have been hooked on this technology, and wondering why it is taking so long to actually be useful. I would put one of these on backorder if it wasn't for the $1500 price tag :D

[Demon-TC3]

Now thats progress...sure enough soon our rc cars will soon run on water!

But for 1500...i would rather buy a whole bunch of battery packs...at least that burns through the atmosphere not my wallet! :D :p

[bxpitbull44]

Did you fellas happen to read the top speed? 35 km translates to about 23 mph. That is SLOW! 35-40 minutes? I get 35 minutes running my GTB/4.5 in my Pro 4 on 6000 Li-Po from MaxAmps. So what is so special about this fuel cell that one would pay so much more for so much less?

[evst 360]

It is a really cool new technology that runs off of hydrogen and oxygen. I know it is not practical yet, but it is just cool. I am sure that this will spark more interest and better systems will pop up. All technology has to start somewhere.

[bxpitbull44]

It is a really cool new technology that runs off of hydrogen and oxygen. I know it is not practical yet, but it is just cool. I am sure that this will spark more interest and better systems will pop up. All technology has to start somewhere.

Cool is one thing. But if you are going to break ground, you have to make it comparable to whats currently available. Touring cars are really taking off with Li-Po and if this is the "next best thing", I figure it would have more of a BOOM. This a bit more of a poof

[Grant Tokumi]

bxpitbull44,
I'm sure the company and many of us understand what you are saying. I do not think they expect this product to take the r/c consumer world by storm and make a killing with this product. The typical r/c backyard basher/racer may not even be the target audience.

But it does looks to me like its just a single step of many into a possible larger brighter future in fuel cell technology. This is how many new technologies start out. Some technologies make it, some don't. I think its a good idea.

[ElectricThunder]

Gotta crawl before you can walk, gotta walk before you can jog, and you gotta jog before you can sprint (errr...figuratively speaking....yeah). Technology seems to be the same way. Start slowly, and then it just takes off if it has the demand and the technology has use. This is one of those technologies that could very well take off once performance is brought up to spec (IE- they simply need to start refining the existing system and/or design a new, more powerful system). I love technology!

[mugenX5]

Gotta crawl before you can walk, gotta walk before you can jog, and you gotta jog before you can sprint (errr...figuratively speaking....yeah). Technology seems to be the same way. Start slowly, and then it just takes off if it has the demand and the technology has use. This is one of those technologies that could very well take off once performance is brought up to spec (IE- they simply need to start refining the existing system and/or design a new, more powerful system). I love technology!

Exactly.

Just look at lipo batteries and brushless motors. Lipoly batteries will eventually BE legal for ROAR races, just when the technology gets to the point that nimh batteries are at, which isn't too far away.

Look at all of the maintenance with brushed motors and nitro engines and all of the waste associated with them ( and racing too), brushes, commutators, clutch bearings, glow plugs, fuel, electricity to power the batteries and on and on...

If we can drive an rc car with no effect on the environment and little to no maintenance, then why not?

[bxpitbull44]

Well, considering that brushless/Li-Po hit the scene, they hit with a boom. It was a bit rough, and took some tweaking. That being said, they came out fast, a bit unreliable and a bit pricier. This is much more expensive than several vehicles, slow, and who really is concerned with the environment? All of a sudden everyone is concerned with the environment? I bet everyone who is squawking that drives an SUV, uses aerosols of some type and/or smokes. Fellas, lets concentrate on the groundbreaking stuff we have now and let it get a bit of burn before we jump on this fuel cell thing. Flamers welcome.

[evst 360]

Well, considering that brushless/Li-Po hit the scene, they hit with a boom. It was a bit rough, and took some tweaking. That being said, they came out fast, a bit unreliable and a bit pricier. This is much more expensive than several vehicles, slow, and who really is concerned with the environment? All of a sudden everyone is concerned with the environment? I bet everyone who is squawking that drives an SUV, uses aerosols of some type and/or smokes. Fellas, lets concentrate on the groundbreaking stuff we have now and let it get a bit of burn before we jump on this fuel cell thing. Flamers welcome. :eek: :eek: :eek:
I care about the environment. In short, nature cannot function without the environment. You should know how important the environment is, it is taught in the 8th grade. Any harm done to the environment will affect life on earth in some way. Please, do not get me started on this. There are many major environmental problems today as a result of man using pollutants. Hole in the ozone, acid rain, greenhouse gasses causing global warming which is shutting down the North Atlantic Current. People are now realizing what is happening, and we are develpoing hybrid cars. Most people today are aware and concerned about the effects of pollution, including the people that drive SUV's. I am shocked to hear you say you do not care about the environment. Now that I have let off some steam, who else thinks fuel cell cars are cool?

[ElectricThunder]

Well, considering that brushless/Li-Po hit the scene, they hit with a boom. It was a bit rough, and took some tweaking. That being said, they came out fast, a bit unreliable and a bit pricier. This is much more expensive than several vehicles, slow, and who really is concerned with the environment? All of a sudden everyone is concerned with the environment? I bet everyone who is squawking that drives an SUV, uses aerosols of some type and/or smokes. Fellas, lets concentrate on the groundbreaking stuff we have now and let it get a bit of burn before we jump on this fuel cell thing. Flamers welcome.
I think the fuel cell technology has more power to offer than your typical 6 cell packs or even lipo packs.

Also, when brushless first came out for cars, it sucked. It would cog, some controllers weren't very smooth, and it was almost not worth it because of that high price tag. Now, after refinement and advancement of the technology, look at where we are now (mamba max is 212.99, has a usb link, and is pretty controllable, and it doesn't break the bank compared to some other setups!).

If this technology has no worth or merit, it will simply die off. If it is a hit, more time and research will go into it to produce more powerful units, smaller units, etc.

[Toycar]

I would stick to batterys. Storage and handling of the fuel, the nature of hydrogen as a fuel source makes it dangerous. LiPo batteries are bad enough when charged incorrectly. The older ones can ignite in a white ball of flames. Conventional NiMH batteries will heat up and melt your radio box and receiver but Hydrogen burns super hot with an invisible flame. If there's a problem the handler will be a crisp before anyone including him know it. Kind of like those pit lane fires in stockcar/indy racing but worse. Ever thought about a propane powered R/C car!

I use to work for the premier Hydrogen fuel cell Co., Ballard power systems 10 years ago. They have been trying to commercial this type of fuel cells since the mid 1980's. It still hasn't happened yet. Many car company's were working with us Ford, Mazda, GM, Toyot, Daimler Benz (aka Mercedes). I've heard they've all backed out now. Not one of those companys has released a viable PEM Hydrogen fuel cell vehicle for sale anywhere in the world. Before you see it in the R/C world it will be in full sized cars first along with many other applications. What the problem was and what I think still is is the PEM gets corrupted by positive ions which haults the chemical reaction and stops the generation of DC electricity. Yeah, this if fine and all you need to do is replace the PEM which happens alot. This will add up to very high costs. Along with stoppage of electricity production the temprature in that cell will increase beyond the normal 80 degrees celcius. This temprature increase is another danger along with the danger of the hydrogen fuel itself. The temprature can get high enough to melt the PEM and then Hydrogen + Oxygen + Heat = Death. Do you want this.

Yes, it can be put in a R/C car but along with a fuel source and fuel cell and speed control. It's need a system to control fuel flow, measure the operating parameters of the fule cell, and safety systems for shut down for failures. Even then do you have the knowledge, skill, and ability to rebuild the fuel cell when it fails. What if you take apart the fuel cell and possiby injure yourself. When we sold one of our fuel cells to a customer it went along with an on-call customer service representative that flew anywhere in the world to maintain it.

I admit I was wrong earlier implimenting Horizon hobbys when they are not associated with this company but playing around with Hydrogen fuel is a dangerous requiring many safeguards.

[Toycar]

It's been 10 years so my memory comes back slow. The fuel gases need be humidified else no reaction but heat (heat=death). It's similar to our lungs except that it can't be wet but needs 100% humidity. This means there must be a water supply, pump system, and method of exchange (the PEM works). I remember the fuel supply was a consistent pressure preasured flow-through system. This means there needs to be a regulator for preasure. Pressure can be supplyed by the pressure vessile. Funny thing is the pressure vessile needs to be 2000psi for H2 to liquid. The flow through system is the fuel source goes in preasured and exits the fuel system. Not all the hydrogen is consumed as it passes throuh the fuel cell. Either the exhaust is fed through the fuel cell agiain or it is vented to the atmosphere. One way equals extra mechanisms and the other equals danger.

[ElectricThunder]

Out of curiosity, where did you pick up that this is a Horizon Hobby thing? :confused: The article said Horizon Fuel Cell Technologies.

[bxpitbull44]

:eek: :eek: :eek:
I care about the environment. In short, nature cannot function without the environment. You should know how important the environment is, it is taught in the 8th grade. Any harm done to the environment will affect life on earth in some way. Please, do not get me started on this. There are many major environmental problems today as a result of man using pollutants. Hole in the ozone, acid rain, greenhouse gasses causing global warming which is shutting down the North Atlantic Current. People are now realizing what is happening, and we are develpoing hybrid cars. Most people today are aware and concerned about the effects of pollution, including the people that drive SUV's. I am shocked to hear you say you do not care about the environment. Now that I have let off some steam, who else thinks fuel cell cars are cool?

Hey slim, I didnt say I wasnt concerned. I asked, "Who is really concerned?". Dont go and give me the 8th grade and all this other crappola. And, for the price of what they are quoting, is anyone THAT concerned with the environment that they are willing to pay 1500 dollars for a car that goes that slow? Do R/C cars pump out that much pollution that Canadian Geese in Alaska are now endangered? C'mon man, lets be realists here!

[bxpitbull44]

Out of curiosity, where did you pick up that this is a Horizon Hobby thing? :confused: The article said Horizon Fuel Cell Technologies.

Mis-read it and filled in the "blanks".

[bxpitbull44]

I think the fuel cell technology has more power to offer than your typical 6 cell packs or even lipo packs.

Also, when brushless first came out for cars, it sucked. It would cog, some controllers weren't very smooth, and it was almost not worth it because of that high price tag. Now, after refinement and advancement of the technology, look at where we are now (mamba max is 212.99, has a usb link, and is pretty controllable, and it doesn't break the bank compared to some other setups!).

If this technology has no worth or merit, it will simply die off. If it is a hit, more time and research will go into it to produce more powerful units, smaller units, etc.

Thunder, I usually agree with you, but this time, you kicked yourself unconscious. In case you didnt read their website, they are talking 35kmh. That translates to about 23mph. And while the system might be safe, it's EXPENSIVE! Early brushless systems were costlier than brushed, but not in the THOUSANDS. If it were helping the environment, speeds in the neighborhood of what we see now and was a few sheckles more, then I could possibly see it giving li-po brushless a go. But, their initial costs, coupled with slow speeds and untested reliability, nah man.....

[Demon-TC3]

Guys remember that is 23MPH from a 27 turn stock johnson or mabushi...which isnt bad...

That said, for about 20 bucks you get urself a 7 cell pack, save urself 1480$ get urself a descent charger for about 40 bucks...hell why not get 20 packs, and a charger, you saved yourself a whole $1,000 AND you dont need to refill it after every 45 mins...just change the pack! :P

good idea...but impractical

[evst 360]

Hey slim, I didnt say I wasnt concerned. I asked, "Who is really concerned?". Dont go and give me the 8th grade and all this other crappola. And, for the price of what they are quoting, is anyone THAT concerned with the environment that they are willing to pay 1500 dollars for a car that goes that slow? Do R/C cars pump out that much pollution that Canadian Geese in Alaska are now endangered? C'mon man, lets be realists here!
bx, you do have a point about the price, but it is a new technology that has great potential. This is nothing more than another energy source, squeezed onto a rc car. This could make it easier to power rc's with out having to recharge batts alot, and yes, they do pollute. Many power-plants that make the power to charge batts pollute like hell. This pollution affects much, much more than just one species on earth. I will stop there with the environment, but please realize that this is just a new tech starting out, and it is not mass-produced so it is not the best for the dollar system on earth.

[ElectricThunder]

Thunder, I usually agree with you, but this time, you kicked yourself unconscious. In case you didnt read their website, they are talking 35kmh. That translates to about 23mph. And while the system might be safe, it's EXPENSIVE! Early brushless systems were costlier than brushed, but not in the THOUSANDS. If it were helping the environment, speeds in the neighborhood of what we see now and was a few sheckles more, then I could possibly see it giving li-po brushless a go. But, their initial costs, coupled with slow speeds and untested reliability, nah man.....

I read the site. I read the speed. It's still not too bad speed wise (cost sucks!). At that speed for 45 minutes, I could definitely have some fun though. The important thing with this release is the technology, not its current specs IMO. If there is demand for such a product, the company will (if they want to make money and are even remotely smart) have to refine their product to get more performance out of it. If there's no demand, and it dies out, then that's fine too.

It's all about the technology to me. If the energy source can be refined technologically to the point where it can handle/produce much higher current for something like a brushless motor and they can build an ESC that runs off of hydrogen (or a fuel cell that'll power existing ESCs), then imagine the potential. THAT is what I'm getting at. I still ain't paying 1500 bucks though just like everyone else here won't too...;) (For the record, I'm not concerned with this technology saving the earth; I just want the power it can potentiall release. I still drive my gas guzzlin' small block anyways....:D:D)