jamesbernatchez
01-03-2007, 08:43 PM
I wanted to post a semi informative thread about rock crawling since it seems to be getting so popular. Im sure alot of people would find this useful. Maybe we can pin it to the top so its easy to find?
Welcome everyone to the addiction that is known as rock crawling. This post is to help inform you about getting started in rock crawling. Im going to assume you know a little about crawling. It can be done very cheaply or it can get very expensive. But no matter what road you choose there is fun to be had :D The great thing about building a crawler is there is no right way to do it. There are some basic parts you will see throughout many different builds though that are a staple of rock crawling. The info below pertains to 2.2 class vehicles although some(motors, speed controls, servos, etc. will carry over to the Super Class Rigs.)
#1 - 2.2 Class Rigs
These rigs are called that because of the 2.2 size rim that is used. They are around 1/10th scale and use the same scale bodies. These size rims are found on most stadium trucks. The rules state that a 2.2 class competition legal rig must have a wheelbase no longer than 12.5 inches. The width must also be no wider than 12.5 inches. 2.2 rigs also are only allowed 2 wheel steering. The rear axle must be locked out.
Axles: One of the staples of rock crawling is the Tamiya TLT. This is pretty much the basis of most custom rock crawlers. People purchase this in order to use the axles and hardware. You will want to lock the diff inside the axle case for rock crawling. There are a few ways to do that either by JB Weld, hot glue, or adding another gear to the diff. JB Weld is permanent while the others can be reversed with little to know damage.
Chassis: There are soooo many aftermarket chassis' that it would be insane to list them here. A few popular ones that come to my mind are Bender SW2, Bulu 2, plus more that I cannot think of. These are all competition worthy chassis. I personally have a SW2 and love it! You can check out www.bendercustoms.com for that chassis.
Links: The best option is to get some all thread rod and some traxxas rod ends and go nuts! This way you can make custom links to suit your wheelbase. Its very simple to do and cheap. You can even sleave them with aluminum tubing or graphite rod for that trick look. On the other hand you can use the stock TLT links for upper links and Traxxas 105mm links for the bottom.
Transmission: One of the most proven transmissions and one that most people rely on is the Traxxas Stampede/Rustler/Bandit tranny. It is effective and is easy to find. You will want to lock the diff to give the front and rear axles equal power.
Driveshafts: These connect from the output on the tranny to the output on the axle. You will need two driveshafts. Ones that are effective and pretty cheap are Traxxas sliders. People have used driveshafts from the pede, revo, jato, etc with success. The pede driveshafts are probably the most used. One thing to mention is you will need yokes, which is how the driveshafts are attached to the tranny and axles. Traxxas makes plastic yokes along with there metal yokes. For a crawler I reccommend the metal yokes. They cost alot more(usually around $15-20) but are well worth it in strengh. The plastic ones under the extreme torque and stress of crawling are likley to snap while the metal ones should never break.
Shocks: Youll find that the "standard" is usually around a 4" shock fully extended. Duratrax, Integy, and Traxxas are a few companies that make shocks that work well for crawlers and scale vehicles alike.
Tires/Wheels: Most people run Proline Moab 2.2's for rock crawling. They are the best overall I feel. Some people like the grip of Masher 2000's also. There are a few different options from Proline and Imex so search around and see what works best. As far as wheels, many people use front electric stampede wheels all around. Cheap and effective. Any 2.2 size wheel will work but some might need adaptors so as to not rub at full lock. www.RC4WD.com makes some nice beadlocks also. They come in a few different widths. They are more expensive then plastic wheels but there is one thing that is great about them, you NEVER have to glue your tires. The bead of the tire is held in by the outer ring of the rim. This lets you play with weights in the rims for a better center of gravity. You can run cut foams, airsoft bb's, stick on lead weights, lead shot, etc. There are many options. To many to cover here.
Brushed Motors: In a crawler you want torque over speed. Slow is better(usually). Many people run lathe motors. These come in 35, 45, 55, 65, and even 75 turns. The more turns the more torque but the lower the top speed. I think for crawling a 45 or a 55 turn motor is great. Plenty of torque for when you need it but also it will be able to give you wheel spin if needed. For a bit more speed and still some decent torque look at silver can motors. They are pretty cheap and are a good all around motor. I would personally use a silver can motor for a trail rig, something that will see a bit of everything. Mud, water, rocks, etc.
Brushless motors: These are pretty new to rock crawling. People have found that they weigh less than a lathe motor(2 ounces compared to 6 or so ounces) and have just as much torque. These require a brushless compatible esc inorder to use them. The common brushless motor that is being used is a 400 size outrunner. There are different kinds and im just begining to use them myself. So far I have nothing but praise for them. One thing to note about these motors is because there are no brushes to wear out they are more efficiant then brushed motors and that in turn can lead to longer run times. For more info and a great place to purchase brushless motors and esc's visit John at www.holmeshobbies.com He has been running brushless in crawlers for a while now and is a great guy to deal with.
Speed Controllers for brushed motors: The nice thing is that almost any electronic speed control designed for a car/truck will work in a crawler with a brushed motor. Some favorites to use are Novak Super Rooster, Novak XRS, Mtronics lineup of esc's, and others. One thing to note is what the BEC is rated for on the esc. Many esc's BEC is around 1 amp(Novak XRS for instance). The higher the better. If your running two high torque servos along with the motor then you want something that will be able to power everything at once. With a low BEC....Trying to turn 4 wheels(if using 4 wheel steering) could take all the power away from the motor and vice versa. Im running a Super Rooster and a Novak XRS and havent had any problems with either in my 2.2 rigs.
Speed Controllers for brushless motors: Again, brushless motors need a specific speed control for them. One of the most popular is the Mamba 25 by Castle Creations. It was designed for 1/18th scale vehicles but works great in a crawler too. Its a very small lightweight esc and can handle small brushless motors no problem. Im using one in conjunction with an outrunner brushless motor in a rig I have and it is everything I hoped it would be. For more info on these check out www.holmeshobbies.com
Batteries: A big part of your setup is your batteries. They come in all types, sizes, and capacities. Im gonna focus on NIMH battery packs. These are widely used in elelctric rc cars. A standard 6 cell pack is made with Sub C size cells. They come in capacities up to 45oo now. The higher the capacity the longer the runtime. The downside of Sub C size cells is that they are heavy. I personally run a 6 cell Sub C pack in one of my rigs. I run it over the front axle to get as much weight as possible up front. Some people run 2/3 batteries or even AA size batteries. Im running custom 7 cell AA 1650mah packs in my tuber. There are many options. One thing I recommend with all batteries are Deans connectors. They have alot less resistance then standard Tamiya plugs. Check out www.cheapbatterypacks.com for Custom packs for great prices!
Servos: Any standard size servo will do.....but a good servo will last on the rocks! You would want to look for something with at least 80oz of torque for a 2.2 rig. I personally run a 200oz and a 133oz servo respectively on my rigs. Id rather have more than enough power than not enough.
Radios: Any 2 channel radio will work in a 2.2 class rig. I personally run Spektrum radios and receivers so I dont have to worry about frequency conflicts. A cheap radio that works is the Traxxas TQ2 or TQ3.
Bodies: People run 1/10th scale bodies on there trucks. Jeeps, Fords, Chevys, Dodges..it doesnt matter. As long as you like it.
#2 - Super Class Crawlers (Work In Progress)
Websites
www.thecrawlerstore.com - Everything you need for crawlers
www.RC4WD.com - Aluminum beadlocks along with other items
www.holmeshobbies.com - Brushless motors and speed controls
www.ultimatehobbies.com - TLT Kits
www.bendercustoms.com - Competition chassis and accessories
www.rcpcrawlers.com - Everything you need for crawlers
www.cheapbatterypacks.com - Place for everything batteries
Pictures always help me get motivated to build so I figured I would post some pictures of my crawlers along with some of my past scale vehicles.
2.2 Rig Pictures
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Branford%20Point/20061230_454.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Branford%20Point/IMG_0012.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Branford%20Point/IMG_0004.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Branford%20Point/20061230_432.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_0016.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_0141.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_0023.jpg
Scale Trucks(2.2 and 1.9)
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_0057.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/DSCN4695.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_8431.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Tamiya%20F-350/DSCN4467.jpg
Welcome everyone to the addiction that is known as rock crawling. This post is to help inform you about getting started in rock crawling. Im going to assume you know a little about crawling. It can be done very cheaply or it can get very expensive. But no matter what road you choose there is fun to be had :D The great thing about building a crawler is there is no right way to do it. There are some basic parts you will see throughout many different builds though that are a staple of rock crawling. The info below pertains to 2.2 class vehicles although some(motors, speed controls, servos, etc. will carry over to the Super Class Rigs.)
#1 - 2.2 Class Rigs
These rigs are called that because of the 2.2 size rim that is used. They are around 1/10th scale and use the same scale bodies. These size rims are found on most stadium trucks. The rules state that a 2.2 class competition legal rig must have a wheelbase no longer than 12.5 inches. The width must also be no wider than 12.5 inches. 2.2 rigs also are only allowed 2 wheel steering. The rear axle must be locked out.
Axles: One of the staples of rock crawling is the Tamiya TLT. This is pretty much the basis of most custom rock crawlers. People purchase this in order to use the axles and hardware. You will want to lock the diff inside the axle case for rock crawling. There are a few ways to do that either by JB Weld, hot glue, or adding another gear to the diff. JB Weld is permanent while the others can be reversed with little to know damage.
Chassis: There are soooo many aftermarket chassis' that it would be insane to list them here. A few popular ones that come to my mind are Bender SW2, Bulu 2, plus more that I cannot think of. These are all competition worthy chassis. I personally have a SW2 and love it! You can check out www.bendercustoms.com for that chassis.
Links: The best option is to get some all thread rod and some traxxas rod ends and go nuts! This way you can make custom links to suit your wheelbase. Its very simple to do and cheap. You can even sleave them with aluminum tubing or graphite rod for that trick look. On the other hand you can use the stock TLT links for upper links and Traxxas 105mm links for the bottom.
Transmission: One of the most proven transmissions and one that most people rely on is the Traxxas Stampede/Rustler/Bandit tranny. It is effective and is easy to find. You will want to lock the diff to give the front and rear axles equal power.
Driveshafts: These connect from the output on the tranny to the output on the axle. You will need two driveshafts. Ones that are effective and pretty cheap are Traxxas sliders. People have used driveshafts from the pede, revo, jato, etc with success. The pede driveshafts are probably the most used. One thing to mention is you will need yokes, which is how the driveshafts are attached to the tranny and axles. Traxxas makes plastic yokes along with there metal yokes. For a crawler I reccommend the metal yokes. They cost alot more(usually around $15-20) but are well worth it in strengh. The plastic ones under the extreme torque and stress of crawling are likley to snap while the metal ones should never break.
Shocks: Youll find that the "standard" is usually around a 4" shock fully extended. Duratrax, Integy, and Traxxas are a few companies that make shocks that work well for crawlers and scale vehicles alike.
Tires/Wheels: Most people run Proline Moab 2.2's for rock crawling. They are the best overall I feel. Some people like the grip of Masher 2000's also. There are a few different options from Proline and Imex so search around and see what works best. As far as wheels, many people use front electric stampede wheels all around. Cheap and effective. Any 2.2 size wheel will work but some might need adaptors so as to not rub at full lock. www.RC4WD.com makes some nice beadlocks also. They come in a few different widths. They are more expensive then plastic wheels but there is one thing that is great about them, you NEVER have to glue your tires. The bead of the tire is held in by the outer ring of the rim. This lets you play with weights in the rims for a better center of gravity. You can run cut foams, airsoft bb's, stick on lead weights, lead shot, etc. There are many options. To many to cover here.
Brushed Motors: In a crawler you want torque over speed. Slow is better(usually). Many people run lathe motors. These come in 35, 45, 55, 65, and even 75 turns. The more turns the more torque but the lower the top speed. I think for crawling a 45 or a 55 turn motor is great. Plenty of torque for when you need it but also it will be able to give you wheel spin if needed. For a bit more speed and still some decent torque look at silver can motors. They are pretty cheap and are a good all around motor. I would personally use a silver can motor for a trail rig, something that will see a bit of everything. Mud, water, rocks, etc.
Brushless motors: These are pretty new to rock crawling. People have found that they weigh less than a lathe motor(2 ounces compared to 6 or so ounces) and have just as much torque. These require a brushless compatible esc inorder to use them. The common brushless motor that is being used is a 400 size outrunner. There are different kinds and im just begining to use them myself. So far I have nothing but praise for them. One thing to note about these motors is because there are no brushes to wear out they are more efficiant then brushed motors and that in turn can lead to longer run times. For more info and a great place to purchase brushless motors and esc's visit John at www.holmeshobbies.com He has been running brushless in crawlers for a while now and is a great guy to deal with.
Speed Controllers for brushed motors: The nice thing is that almost any electronic speed control designed for a car/truck will work in a crawler with a brushed motor. Some favorites to use are Novak Super Rooster, Novak XRS, Mtronics lineup of esc's, and others. One thing to note is what the BEC is rated for on the esc. Many esc's BEC is around 1 amp(Novak XRS for instance). The higher the better. If your running two high torque servos along with the motor then you want something that will be able to power everything at once. With a low BEC....Trying to turn 4 wheels(if using 4 wheel steering) could take all the power away from the motor and vice versa. Im running a Super Rooster and a Novak XRS and havent had any problems with either in my 2.2 rigs.
Speed Controllers for brushless motors: Again, brushless motors need a specific speed control for them. One of the most popular is the Mamba 25 by Castle Creations. It was designed for 1/18th scale vehicles but works great in a crawler too. Its a very small lightweight esc and can handle small brushless motors no problem. Im using one in conjunction with an outrunner brushless motor in a rig I have and it is everything I hoped it would be. For more info on these check out www.holmeshobbies.com
Batteries: A big part of your setup is your batteries. They come in all types, sizes, and capacities. Im gonna focus on NIMH battery packs. These are widely used in elelctric rc cars. A standard 6 cell pack is made with Sub C size cells. They come in capacities up to 45oo now. The higher the capacity the longer the runtime. The downside of Sub C size cells is that they are heavy. I personally run a 6 cell Sub C pack in one of my rigs. I run it over the front axle to get as much weight as possible up front. Some people run 2/3 batteries or even AA size batteries. Im running custom 7 cell AA 1650mah packs in my tuber. There are many options. One thing I recommend with all batteries are Deans connectors. They have alot less resistance then standard Tamiya plugs. Check out www.cheapbatterypacks.com for Custom packs for great prices!
Servos: Any standard size servo will do.....but a good servo will last on the rocks! You would want to look for something with at least 80oz of torque for a 2.2 rig. I personally run a 200oz and a 133oz servo respectively on my rigs. Id rather have more than enough power than not enough.
Radios: Any 2 channel radio will work in a 2.2 class rig. I personally run Spektrum radios and receivers so I dont have to worry about frequency conflicts. A cheap radio that works is the Traxxas TQ2 or TQ3.
Bodies: People run 1/10th scale bodies on there trucks. Jeeps, Fords, Chevys, Dodges..it doesnt matter. As long as you like it.
#2 - Super Class Crawlers (Work In Progress)
Websites
www.thecrawlerstore.com - Everything you need for crawlers
www.RC4WD.com - Aluminum beadlocks along with other items
www.holmeshobbies.com - Brushless motors and speed controls
www.ultimatehobbies.com - TLT Kits
www.bendercustoms.com - Competition chassis and accessories
www.rcpcrawlers.com - Everything you need for crawlers
www.cheapbatterypacks.com - Place for everything batteries
Pictures always help me get motivated to build so I figured I would post some pictures of my crawlers along with some of my past scale vehicles.
2.2 Rig Pictures
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Branford%20Point/20061230_454.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Branford%20Point/IMG_0012.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Branford%20Point/IMG_0004.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Branford%20Point/20061230_432.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_0016.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_0141.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_0023.jpg
Scale Trucks(2.2 and 1.9)
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_0057.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/DSCN4695.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Scale%20RC/IMG_8431.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Tamiya%20F-350/DSCN4467.jpg