Brushless motor for stampede

[glacierangel]

i am thinking about getting a brushless motor for my stampede.
I have been looking at the novak ss5800, and the castle creations mamba max.
I don't need insane power, just about 35-40 mph top speed and the power to pull wheelies :D
I do still want to get decent run times, and reliability.
Which one is a better choice overall?
and what Kv is better with the mamba max?
is the low one (4000 something Kv) powerful enough?
thanks for helping :)

[cooleocool]

I like the SS5800! You can get them from Novak directly for only $170! Mine was $240 way back when I got it a few years ago. On seven cells, it would be right in that range... And boy will it wheelie in a 'Pede with sticky tires!

Great run time and reliability too!

[JDT]

bishop power products sell the mamba setups for $187.99 shipped, get the 4600 and 3s, if you can't afford a lipo I would get the 5700 and 7 or 8 cells. I tried 7 cells and the 5700 in a pede, way more than the masher 2000s could handle on most terrain. It would wheely easy but mostly just ended up on its lid when it got traction. The ss 5800 is a good system just not in the same league as the mamba setups IMO.

[glacierangel]

i know that the mamba max would be more power, especially because you can run lots of cells, but as i said before, i dont want too much overkill.
Sounds like the ss5800 is a good choice.
thanks

[Rtsbasic]

The SS5800 is years old and doesn't use the best quality materials in its construction. I've read quite a few reports of the system easily overheating.

If your only after a "mild" brushless setup, a Mamba Max 4600, or a Mamba Max/Feigao 380C-6L would be a very nice combo. Both can be run on higher voltages if you so desire in the future, but on 6 cells will give power output fairly similar to the SS5800, while being a lot more capable, and (new) a bit cheaper.

www.starluckrc.com stocks Mamba & Feigao setups btw, great shop to buy from.

[cooleocool]

My thoughts...

I look at is as that the Novaks have been tested and trued. They're not new, and the bugs are pretty much worked out. I have no intent of ever going beyond seven cells in these vehicles and at this current time, don't even own a seven cell, so the Mamba's high cell count limit doesn't do it for me. Castle creations also hasn't been making BL motors for as long as Novak has, so I give the edge to Novak there, personally. Then the Novaks are sensored, so there is no chance of cogging. Many say that the Mambas don't cog, but they're still sensorless, so they probably do from time to time.

When I take out my Rustler with the SS5800, I'm perfectly happy. Lots of low end power, pretty decent speeds, and great efficiency so I get long run times! The low to mid 30's on six cells does it for me and where I run. Anything over 40 would probably get pretty hairy in a truck like the Rustler I'd think. I can barely get traction on my race track as it is. When I take her out at my college's parking lot, she still turns heads! I've had the system for a few days short of three years now and it's been all I've ever needed for all this time!

That's just my two cents worth...


-Tom

[TunaCan Charlie]

How about being able to control every aspect of how your car reacts when you pull the throttle back or hit the breaks?

You were talking about control, go with the Mamba Max. Program your own ESC profile according to track conditions. More power at start, more punch, drag brake, voltage cutoff, etc. all programmed with included software, and software updates from Castle are freeeeeee!

[cooleocool]

I don't need to be able to "control every aspect." I just need it to work when I want to take it out. No plugging it into my computer, no messing with settings, etc. I just want to put a battery pack in, have good reliability and performance, and that's it. The SS5800 is probably the perfect set up for me and anyone else who wants power, efficiency, and reliability! Don't forget no cogging!

[CharlieS]

Thanks Cool, Couldn't have said it better myself. :)

[Rtsbasic]

Look at it another way, why get an SS5800 when you can get the newer Novak system for virtually the same price, if you think Novak are the be all & end all of brushless?

I'm not disputing the SS5800 is a good system, I just can't see why you would spend good money on one these days when it has NO advantages over more modern systems, which have much more overhead for expansion, allow much better software programming, and are overall more efficient & responsive. And when you want one new with warranty, they cost pretty much the same.

Saying the SS5800 is perfect because you just plug the battery in & go is a bit of a cop out - I plug my Mamba in & go every time I use it. Just because you can go into depth via the USB link doesn't mean you have to, its a very useful addition and I doubt I'd buy an esc without it now but you can just plug & go like any other system.

[glassdoctor]

You mean the Novaks have NO adjustments????????? No programming at all?????

Cool. ;)

[ElectricThunder]

I think there's nothing wrong with the SS5800 motor. The ESC it comes with just sucks...:D. Running the 5800 on my HV maxx ESC is great! I love the smoothness (it's smoother than my mamba, and is more "comfortable" and "easier" to drive IMO) and responsiveness. Since I run the HV maxx, I can always jack the cell count up to 12 if I really want to (which I've done before with the stock rotor... a sintered rotor would probably be killer).

I've actually been contemplating the purchase of a 3s lipo, UBEC, and sintered rotor (have the velociti rotor in there right now), and run that in my TT-01. That'd be insanely powerful/fast, plenty of torque, and quite smooth.

I MUST say that the adjustability of the Castle stuff is a HUGE plus though. All the adjustments I can make via the computer have really made it easy to fine tune the mamba to my liking, which I love. The Novak is too static in that area: it's simply more limited in what you can tweak; which is a turn off.

Overall, either system can be formidable. My HV maxx+SS5800 combo is basically a sensored version of a high voltage, sensorless setup with three relatively simplistic, but useful, profiles built into it (it's nice not having to program the profiles, but then again...I'm now spoiled by the mamba). So higher voltages are quite possible with the Novaks, and you're not necessarily limited in that sense (the catch is....you gotta buy an HV system to get the ESC, and the HV ESC itself is quite large). If I were to run a 7.5 with the sintered rotor, or 6.5 with the sintered rotor on something like 3s lipo, I'm pretty confident it'd be evenly matched with an MM5700 on 3s lipo. I've yet to test that inkling yet though...;) (who wants to donate money to me to help me test this???:D:D:D:D)

[cooleocool]

Thanks Cool, Couldn't have said it better myself. :)Yeah... You guys just be sure to keep making good products and I'll keep saying good things about them! Been running a Novak almost since day one and have never looked back, though I do have some Non-Novak ESCs now :eek: . I was a little bummed about fact that you guys aren't servicing the older Roosters anymore though. I love mine, but attempted to replace the motor leads and that didn't go so well. Good soldering skills, but not when it comes to an ESC!

Anyway, back to the point. We're talking about the Traxxas Stampede her folks. Not some super tune-able race truck. It's just a Stampede. What average basher needs to be able to program all of those things or even just have the ability to program those things? What average basher needs to have a cell limit that he or she will never run or think of running? What average basher needs a system that will tear up their vehicles transmission like the Mamba's do (from what I've heard)? I'm sure they're all nice to have, but I don't see the point.

How long as Castle Creations been around? Anyone? Now how long has Novak been around? In the brushless world who has had more experience between the two brands in question here? That one's easy! [Novak].

Now, please do not take my posts out of context. I am not saying that the Novak SS5800 is THE brushless system to have. There are other great systems out there for many different applications! In my book, the Novak SS5800 (aka 8.5) is good for the same thing that the Stampede is good for and that is all out bashing! You plug in the battery, flip the switch, and you're off, knowing that you've got the backing of Novak's great customer service and also experience.


-Tom

[Rtsbasic]

Castle have been doing brushless a lot longer than Novak...they don't just do land vehicle products you know.

Each to their own, your happy with it so thats great, but for the same money better equipment is available, so I don't see why the SS5800 can still be recommended. Unless your on a real tight budget anyway, they go for what, $100 on ebay?

[kschauwe]

I posted this in another forum:
I don't beleave Castle Creations were making brushless motors before they release their first 1/18 scale motors in early 2005. They made BL controllers first for Aircraft and marine (released in 2000). Novak ss5800 was the first Car/Truck system designed from the ground up, for land use. The other systems are converted aircraft ESC & Motors.

btw, CC first BL Esc was the Dragon 35, which was sensored, for Aveox BL motors.

[scoob]

The 5800 would work well. Same goes for a MM4600. I have both and have run them both in various vehicles including my pede on 2s lipo. The performance is pretty close. I'd give the 5800 the advantage in low-end and the 4600 had a bit more speed because it could handle taller gearing without overheating.

If I were going to pick a BL for mine right now, I'd get the Mamba esc/ 380c 6L combo from Starluck for like $185. It may be a little too much power though depending on what you want.

[glacierangel]

lol now i really can't decide...
Cool, have you noticed the motor heating up? Someone mentioned that.
Or any esc problems?
What exactly can you program on the Mamba Max?
the amount of torque vs. top speed? or more...
Also I agree that it is very unlikely that i will ever want more than 7 cells. I am having fun now with the stock titan 12t and a 6 cell battery.
Is the novak really such old technology?
the mamba max does seem quite a bit more expensive (about $40).
thanks for the help! :)
I also saw on the traxxas forum someone said that the mamba max 4400 (or maybe 4700 i forget) is a good choice. How fast does that one go on 6 cells?

[novakman5800]

I have the ss5800. bought it when it first came out. i have done nothing to it, except for switch to deans plugs which i recommend gets more power to the motor. i have had mine overheat and the thermal protection killed all the function like it is suppose to. after about 5mins or so it was fine. this happened when i got my RS4MT stuck and gunned it for about 3 mins to try and get it out. but other than that for the entire life of the system it has been great. the novak does have 6 different settings on it for certain amounts of power and functions. has 5 for brushless motors and 1 for brushed motors. i recommend the novak great system.

[glacierangel]

yeah i am leaning towards the novak...

[CharlieS]

You guys sure get "fired up".... :)

GTB with SS5800 is the best basher combo in my "novak" opinion. GTB has all the programing you need, VIA a button and some lights. Really though, most of the adjustments you need are in the radios, and practice time.... :)

You can always email Novak Directly with questions. tech@teamnovak.com Thanks Guys.

[mud 4 me]

I have the ss5800 and i love it. It is fast. I think it is fast enough for the pede for just every day bashing. I have no problems yet.

[90MPHTC4]

Well I've got the novak and the mamba max. I have run both in my tuned TC4. Thus my nickname. the mamba IMO is the better choice. You can purchase the Mamba ESC and run any sensorless brushless on it. Where the novak you have to run their motors. I like the "plug and play" that the novak uses but sometimes it just doen't get the job done. The novak runs more like a brushed motor than a brushless which to someone that may have never driven a brushless setup before would be more comfortable with. Me I'll take the mamba hands down. I am picking up the new pede today so I can have another basher and it'll get the standard upgrades that it need with the Mamba ESC and the Trinity Neo 1. On a 2s lipo should see around 35+ easy geared for climbing.

[glacierangel]

what exactly do you mean by it runs more like a brushed motor than brushless? It's too smooth for brushless? lol :D

[glacierangel]

I just ordered a ss5800 system from tower hobbies. Can't wait for it to get here!
It had better be good or it's your fault cooleocool :D just kidding... lol
can't wait for it to get here!

[ElectricThunder]

I just ordered a ss5800 system from tower hobbies. Can't wait for it to get here!
It had better be good or it's your fault cooleocool :D just kidding... lol
can't wait for it to get here!
I think you'll like it; especially when you run a decent 7 cell pack on that sucker. Hope you ordered a small fan to put on the ESC's heatsink though (it tends to get..."warm" shall we say?). Don't forget the deans/anderson connectors!:D

Happy Brushless-ing;)

[glacierangel]

Do you need a fan for it? I plan on using 15 tooth pinion, 86 tooth (the stock one) spur.
I don't think i should have much heat problems with that.
Is there a rule of thumb for esc heat?
I know for motors it is 3-5 seconds without swearing :D
also i don't plan on running 7 cells.

[ElectricThunder]

Do you need a fan for it? I plan on using 15 tooth pinion, 86 tooth (the stock one) spur.
I don't think i should have much heat problems with that.
Is there a rule of thumb for esc heat?
I know for motors it is 3-5 seconds without swearing :D
also i don't plan on running 7 cells.
I think for the ESC, the 3-5 second no-swear rule should work out fine too (though I swear just so I can use the fan....:p).

Running 6 cells, the ESC will run cooler than on 7. I also see that you're in Washington, which should be a good deal cooler year-round compared to where I live (South Florida), so you may not notice the heat issue as much as I have. I'm paranoid when it comes to ESC heat, so I put a fan on all of my ESCs (even on my Mamba Max!).

A fan wouldn't hurt at all though (keeps things nice and cool- a good thing in electrics for sure!). Give it a test run though and see how it does without the fan. If you find you need it, then get one (no biggie really).

[SS Pede]

My truck runs fine geared 16/87 without a fan. Pretty close gearing to 15/86 I guess. But as ET said, a fan won't hurt.

[ElectricThunder]

My truck runs fine geared 16/87 without a fan. Pretty close gearing to 15/86 I guess. But as ET said, a fan won't hurt.
I also said I'm paranoid.

[glacierangel]

ok. ill try the touch rule and see. I've never even had an esc be at all warm, but i've only used the xl-1 with the stinger and the xl-5 with the titan...
After a full pack with the xl-5 and titan the esc is cold, and the motor is hardly warm. With the stinger though lol, the motor didn't even pass the 1 second touch test :eek:
lol

[cooleocool]

You should like it... I would have got the refurbished one from Novak, but oh well!

I don't have to run a fan on mine... I can make over 18 minute runs with out it over heating on six cells!

[glacierangel]

ok, i dont think ill need a fan then. What battery were you using to get 18 minute runs?

[SS Pede]

Probably GP3300's...cooleo seems to be a fan of those! In any case, I've gotten runs that long on GP3300's before.

[glacierangel]

It got here! I already broke a camber link :eek: got to get used to the power. Luckily I have extras lol. After about 5-7 minutes of running both the motor and esc are cool to the touch. Very powerful!
My only concern is that it makes a sort of clicking noise when running, but it sounds like it is the drag brake, so i don't think it is a problem.
I've got some cheap 3500's, ill see what the full runtime is with them.

[SS Pede]

I would check out that clicking noise. I'm guessing it's something related to the truck's drivetrain or maybe the pinion set screw is hitting the spur gear. I can't imagine an SS5800 clicking unless there was something very wrong!

[ElectricThunder]

Clicking is usually a bad thing... Although my Rustler does click (motor? no, but drivetrain stuff? yes), but I think it's just the outdrives and the CVDs (there's some play between the dogbone end and the outdrives obviously, so that's probably it, meh).

[glacierangel]

Well its not really so much of a clicking now. I think it is the normal sound of the drag brake. Does the motor need to be broken in somehow?
Can't wait for my swami-bar to get here :( they got backordered for like a month, should finally arrive in the next couple days.

[SS Pede]

No there's no need to break in the motor. I don't have any drag brakes set on mine (can you do that with the SS+ ESC?) so I dunno what that would sound like. Your motor is probably fine, just make sure the noise doesn't get any worse.

A Swami Bar will be a big help. :)

[ElectricThunder]

The swami bar has saved my Rustler's rear many a time. The only down side in my experience... if you like to offroad or have some fun on the beach it tends to get caught on some stuff (seaweed, weeds, etc. dependant upon terrain). No biggie though. I bought it as more of a motor guard more than anything else when I was running my HV4400. :D

[glacierangel]

The sound stopped, i think it actually was the pinion screw hitting the spur, now sure though. The swami bar got here this morning and is working great! Looks awesome, and works awesome. I think the super sport plus esc is the one with drag brake, it come with the newer ss5800 systems. Even after 2 packs in a row with a very short break in between, the motor and esc are staying cool. I think the next step for me is to get some masher 2000s. The talons don't have very good traction once there is more power :D

[ElectricThunder]

The sound stopped, i think it actually was the pinion screw hitting the spur, now sure though. The swami bar got here this morning and is working great! Looks awesome, and works awesome. I think the super sport plus esc is the one with drag brake, it come with the newer ss5800 systems. Even after 2 packs in a row with a very short break in between, the motor and esc are staying cool. I think the next step for me is to get some masher 2000s. The talons don't have very good traction once there is more power :D
Be careful with the mashers (they are BIG and HEAVY). The Novak is powerful...but mashers still bog it down some (first hand experience). Gear on the more conservative side at first, and then see what you can get outta the little motor.

[glacierangel]

are the mashers really sooooo much better than the talons?

[cooleocool]

Yeah... GP3300's...

[Start random rant]Someone has my cell phone number and keeps calling asking for George... I'm not George... It's the same person who called me on Tuesday when I was in one of my classes at college! Wrong number dude![/End random rant]

[glacierangel]

lol my dad for a few months had the library keep calling saying to return his books. Apparently the person with his number before didn't keep good track of their books :D

[retrogameroom]

I know I am getting in on this a little late. Is anyone running the new Novak Havoc Sport (8.5) in their Stampede?
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVWB9&P=SM

I am considering purchasing one soon. If anyone is running this system, how is yours geared and how do you like it?

[SS Pede]

Well, I am now basically running that motor because I put the sintered rotor in my SS5800. I haven't used the Havoc ESC, but it should perform the same or better than the old SS or SS+.

So, the motor is great with the sintered rotor, it pulls taller gearing and runs cooler (according to others...I don't have temperature gun). Mine is geared 16/87 at the moment with Proline Moab tires. Honestly though, I haven't really been able to test what this thing can do because my batteries are too old and tired.

[retrogameroom]

I did purchase the Novak Havoc system for my Stampede and it works great now that I figured out the menu system settings. It is geared 18/87 and does not overheat. This is my first brushless system and so far I am happy with it. (not that I have anything else brushless to compare it to) If anyone is interested, I have a very short video of my newly brushless Stampede. Unfortunately I broke it just after I took this video. Once it’s fixed I’ll post a better one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykUWu0CdXxk