Mamba Max Or U-Force 75 for Racing ?

[Husky]

Hi All It's been sometime since I posted here and used to go under the name of Danielson, however I lost my password and no matter how many times I tried I could not retrieve it. Any help on this would be appreciated.

Now to to the reason for my post. I 've been racing an Xray with a U-Force 75 and Fiegao 380 6 turn motor with great results over the last 14 months, but when I updated my batterys to IB 4200s I started to get problems with thermaling in the last 30 seconds of the race. I tried a fan and ventilating but still had problems and in the end I damaged my uforce, while it was away being repaired I went out and bought the MambaMax and 7700 motor combo. After a few packs with the mamba it seems great but would like some feedback on how it goes with racing and it does not seem at all water resistant. The Uforce / feigao combo does seem to have more initial power and pickup, that maybe to the fiegos smaller armature ?. Your opinions and feedback would be appreciated. I will be selling of one of the units once I have made up my mind which one to keep as my uforce has now returned and looks as new.
Thanks in advance
Regards Daniel

[dhauch]

hi,
i can only speak about the the Feigo & U Force.
i've been running a 9c motor on 4200mah Nihm's and 6000mah Lipo's for two years and still working beautifully.

i can run 25 minutes straight on the Lipo pack and the ESC is just warm.
running it on a 2wd buggy, and geared high even.

dh

[tcolesen]

The Mamba Max does have a water resistant coating. It also costs a lot less than the U-Force 75, CC has better customer support than Schulze (at least for those in the U.S.), and it can handle more amps. I don't race, but I can say that the Mamba Max is quite amazing, as it works very well in converted 1/8 scale vehicles :D.

[TheSteve]

Mamba Max is better in all respects except for driving certain motors. One such motor is a Hacker 12 turn C40, the Max can drive the motor forward fine but is useless when it comes to braking.
The Max can apply the power faster, has double the fets of the U-Force and has a USB interface with great options.

[glassdoctor]

My MambaMax runs great with a Feigao 380c 7s... why don't you try running your Feigao with the Mamba... you might like that the best.

[bdebde]

My MambaMax runs great with a Feigao 380c 7s... why don't you try running your Feigao with the Mamba... you might like that the best.

I was gonna say that.

[Key]

What about 4 to 6 pole motors like the pletty's - which ESC would be better suited?

[NIC]

Hi,

Mamba Max is better in all respects except for driving certain motors. One such motor is a Hacker 12 turn C40, the Max can drive the motor forward fine but is useless when it comes to braking.

In what way useless ? I noticed som odd pulsing during breaking when a friend of mine tested my C40-10S on his MM. Is that what you´re referring too ?

Husky,

Smaller and lighter rotors have a quicker spool-up. It takes less energy to get the rotor spinning. The battery voltage doesn´t drop as much when accelerating a smaller rotor because it´s easier for the battery.
In touringcars I only use 380 size motors, bigger rotors than that is in my opinion unnecessary. The 380 ones has all the torque needed for todays lightdriven touringcars, especially your Xray. They are a little more nimble and up on their toes sort off and they communicate better with you what´s happening with the car. Easier to drive and not soo "sluggish", especially coming from a full throttle straight and going to a partial throttle medium tight bend you can feel the momentum of the heavier rotor.

On the U-Force you could try to reduce the snappy acceleration with the Feigao a little by using the "Time until full throttle" function. If you have it set to the fastest 66ms try 100 or 120ms, this will be a little bit easier on the esc and you will probably not notice any big difference in acceleration unless you are driving in VERY highgrip conditions, like on carpet with foams for example. Use the softest timing and 8kH frequency if you aren´t allready.

Feigaos and MM works good. The MM is a more powerfull esc than the UF. It won´t thermal with the Feigao. However since it´s a bit more powerful and can give your motor more juice than the UF before it shuts down you have to remember to watch you motortemp. The motor then in this combo becomes the weakest link.

NIC

[TheSteve]

In what way useless ? I noticed som odd pulsing during breaking when a friend of mine tested my C40-10S on his MM. Is that what you´re referring too ?



For the most part yes, this is what I am talking about. With the 12 turn it was so extreme it sounded like it was stripping the gears every time I touched the brakes. It relates to the brake frequency the Mamba Max is using. I have asked Castle to give another brake frequency option but nothing so far.

[glassdoctor]

The brakes make chatter noise with the Neus also, but it doesn't hurt anything that I can see. I asked Shawn about it and he said it's fine... doesn't hurt anything.... they know it does that.

I think it varies with the particular motor and gear ratio.

Maybe you are seeing something different?

[TheSteve]

I think it simply varies with the motor, with the Hacker C40 12turn its scary. Its not as bad with a Hacker c40 6s or 7s.
I can swap ESC's between the Max and the U-Force without touching the car/motor, the issue follows the Max.

And I can assure you, it is most certainly harmful to the drive train of the car when used with a C40 12s.
I believe Castle was going to look into the issue further, but now that Shawn is gone I doubt it will happen.

[Husky]

Thanks for all the feedback Guys. I have decided to go with the MM for now. The Uforce is on ebay and has just been serviced and repaired by Schulze.

Nic I don't have the PC link for the UForce but used the Traction control and throttle curve on my KO EX1 radio to suffice which works well. If not using something like that it is almost impossible to control on low traction surfaces. I will keep the fiegao and do some testing with both motors.
Regards Dan :D

[NIC]

For the most part yes, this is what I am talking about. With the 12 turn it was so extreme it sounded like it was stripping the gears every time I touched the brakes. It relates to the brake frequency the Mamba Max is using. I have asked Castle to give another brake frequency option but nothing so far.

Ok, then we are talking about the same thing. Yes, stripping gear sound is what it sounded like. You were probably running 3S with the 12turn and we tested the 10turn with a 2S geared very low. I´m sure yours sounded even more then ours. It scared me abit and gave me the same chills as when you run your fingernails across the blackboard at school.
I really hope CC does something about that for the Monster Max. I REALLY do.......

Husky,
I´m sure you will enjoy the MM, it´s a really good esc despite this little thing. It works good with the Feigaos.

NIC

[TheSteve]

Ok, then we are talking about the same thing. Yes, stripping gear sound is what it sounded like. You were probably running 3S with the 12turn and we tested the 10turn with a 2S geared very low. I´m sure yours sounded even more then ours. It scared me abit and gave me the same chills as when you run your fingernails across the blackboard at school.
I really hope CC does something about that for the Monster Max. I REALLY do.......

Husky,
I´m sure you will enjoy the MM, it´s a really good esc despite this little thing. It works good with the Feigaos.

NIC

Exactly the setup I was running, 3S LiPo with the 12s C40motor. I keep a U-Force 75 on hand for when I need to run that motor. On a smaller track the Mamba Max 4600 motor with 3S is way too much. The C40 12S also gives double the runtime and is still very fast.

[Husky]

A few more Questions.. I have been tinkering around a bit more and found the MM to have a fairly large deadband (area from centre point of trigger is to where the speedy begins to operate the motor) it's about 25 out of 150 on my radio. I overcame this with the schulze buy using fixed neutral point and then adjusting my trim forward. At present if I try this with the MM I then lose my Drag brakes. Is there anyway to adjust the deadband ? :(
Thanks Dan

[splode]

Smaller and lighter rotors have a quicker spool-up. It takes less energy to get the rotor spinning. The battery voltage doesn´t drop as much when accelerating a smaller rotor because it´s easier for the battery.

Although you are technically correct, I would suggest that you run some numbers before you make such claims. All you need is a very basic understanding of Newtonian mechanics for some very accurate results. I suppose you could use partial diff eq to get near perfect calculations, but at the speeds you need to consider I doubt relativity will play big role. I known this is off topic but, it is always a major groaner for me whenever I read statements like this.

[TheSteve]

A few more Questions.. I have been tinkering around a bit more and found the MM to have a fairly large deadband (area from centre point of trigger is to where the speedy begins to operate the motor) it's about 25 out of 150 on my radio. I overcame this with the schulze buy using fixed neutral point and then adjusting my trim forward. At present if I try this with the MM I then lose my Drag brakes. Is there anyway to adjust the deadband ? :(
Thanks Dan

What radio are you using? I have seen one or two other people with large deadbands when using Mamba and Mamba Max controllers, I believe in most cases it was with a Spektrum DX2 or DX3. Using my Futaba with FM or Spektrum modules I have very little deadband.
There is no way to adjust the deadband in software like there is in the U-Force.

[glassdoctor]

You need to set the drag brake via the MM software so it's like you want with the throttle trim as close to 0 as posisble to minimize the deadband.

This isn't unique to the MM... it pretty much goes with any esc.

I may be misuderstanding what you are saying, but it sounds like you are actually using negative throttle trim to get your "drag brake".. so when you set the trim forward to eliminate the deadband it also takes away your brake.

If you want little deadband AND drag brakes, you need to use the drag brake setting in the software, not simply turn back the trim.

[Husky]

I have setup the dragbrake in the MM and found if I used my throttle trim to eliminate the deadband I would then lose my dragbrake. So if my throttle trim is at centre then dragbrake works but I have a large deadband. I found another way around it by using what is throttle punch in my transmitter. By adding a higher value in this setting as soon as I touch the trigger the car begins to move and I still get dragbrake. Problem solved..
Cheers Dan :D

[glassdoctor]

I have setup the dragbrake in the MM and found if I used my throttle trim to eliminate the deadband I would then lose my dragbrake. :D

Still, it should not be like this. The deadband shouldn't be there to begin with, drag brake or no drag brake. I would start over and try to make it right.

But if it's working ok for you like it is that's cool.

[chilledoutuk]

Yes i agree with splode while nic's claim is perfectly technically correct and has a perfectly valid explanation and is based on a very well made observation from multiple parties, I too would like him to waste his time making calculations to satisfy splode's mathematic anality.

sarcasm ends here....

I would keep the mamba max as it can take more without overheating i always wondered why they didn't make a uforce 100

[Husky]

A couple moroe questions if I may . Is it safe to desolder the motor wires off the circut board and hard wire the motor to the speedy > It looks like it is made to do so but wanted to see if it has been done without any probs. Also whats the best method of softening the power delivery ? I don't like changing the curves much as I find that when the curve goes upward it makes a point in the power delivery where you are more likely to break traction. Is punch or cutoff voltage the better option ? I also wanted to ask if anyone knows where I can buy a fiegao 380 6turn as mine is getting a little tired.
Cheers Dan :D

[TheSteve]

I've changed the power wires no problem before. Just take the case off first so you don't melt it. The punch control may be more effective depending on your batteries. My batteries hold voltage very well(Kokam 3200 20C cells) so using a custom LVC doesn't do much.
btw, as long as the solder connections to the plugs are done well and the plugs are kept clean you'll never notice any difference with or without them. They do use quite a bit of room though

[SpEEdyBL]

you might be able to find a 380c 6t (same motor but rebuildable with a heatsink and regular 540 mounting holes) at rc-monster.com or you can ask jamie @ starluckrc.com to special order one. The 7t is in stock for sure.