New Cat On The Block

[Tuslow1]

I was back and forth all over the internet looking high and low for my next Cat. I called places that I had no clue what they were saying nor knew what they were even talking about. I did come to learn to that Zellen Kot Bout in someway means battery powered Cat boat. Anyways some hotshot boat slinger up in the little bitty north eastern states by name of Steven got my sights fixed on the Jolly Hull. I think she is a work of art and for once my Wife even said "that is a really pretty boat, looks like someone took thier time making it" then turned, shook her head and walked away. I looked it over about a thousand times and nice to say they leave very little for a small brain like me to mess up. All I need to do is add a motor, ESC, cells, radio, prop and wait for the pond to melt... I think I will whoop on my son's SV27 kinda bad...

[BoatDoc]

those are pretty boats. i've been thinking of one for a dual drive. i'd have to get it without the output installed. i'd also have to find room in my budget! what kind of power are you going to use?

[Tuslow1]

I was going to use a SV27 system, Steven laughed and said it won't work the hull is too big. So I'm going 13 to 14 XL with a 440, 442, 445 and 447 props on 20 cells.. It's only job is to Whoop on a LiL'Red...... Think I can do it now Doc???

[Tuslow1]

BoatDoc, I was looking at what you told me was a piano wire drive and it is kinda thick and the stuffing box has two slight bends in it. It makes me nervous just looking at it, making a streight rod go into a bent tube. Question is eventhough the rod is stiff do you think it will break???

[BoatDoc]

i think a cable might be a better choice for that set up.

[Fluid]

A wire drive likes a slight bend in the stuffing tube. From the photos the bend doesn't look too severe - is it a single bend or an "S" bend? For your kind of power, a 0.077" wire would probably be best. If you have not used wire before, a 0.150" cable might be a better choice. Do not use a 0.130" cable!!


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[Tuslow1]

The more I looked at it, it only has a slight bend in the stuffing tube under the hull. And to help clear my mind I stuck the wire in and out about 100 times to see if the it would bend at all and no, everytime it came out it was streight as a arrow. But I do believe a cable is in the future for the boat....

[Tuslow1]

The thing I'm having the hardest time doing is finding 20 IB4200s, I don't need them matched, zapped and sent to the moon and back because thats overkill for my backyard pond. Everyone with a good price has NONE!! And those who do have some wants $7.50 to $10 bucks per cell.(I guess thats why they still have them..LOL) My wife seen me ordering the motor, ECS, prop and cooling system for the boat and I thought she was going to stab me on the spot!!! But all she said was "damn boat getting a lil money hungry" So for her I refuse to spend another $350 for cells and a charger... But for me I might... I'm starting to understand why I don't see a hell of alot of these boats around.. From now on I think I will stick to my cheap RTR's

[Fluid]

Okay, for your use IB4200s would be overkill. Not only are the remaining 4200s high-priced, they offer you more than you need. A decent alternative are the IB3600s offered by Battlepacks for $3.95. http://www.battlepack.com/loosecells.asp

These cells have plenty of power and will last longer than the more fragile 4200s. Other alternativesa are the EP4500s, but I don't know who has them or how much they cost. Sport boaters do not need racing cells.


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[Tuslow1]

Fluid, true I'm not looking for knockout power but I wanted the higher mAh just for longer run times

[zakerid]

check this thread out... i dont know if the deal is still going on though.
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?t=234606

[Tuslow1]

Thank You Zakerid, that is cheap, so cheap it is almost scary.. LMAO!! I will call and get 25 before days end...

[Tuslow1]

UPS guy came again today, parked outside the door and my heart jumped!!! I seen a small box in his hand and rushed to the door.. I opened the door and said "thats for me", He replied "sorry its going upstairs"... What a bummer :(

[Tuslow1]

Went into the LHS and was looking in the battery case when I heard "Ken are you ready to build your cells for that new boat" I told him sure, but I don't know how. He replied "me neither, but I got all the stuff to try with. And get away from those cheap packs. I got 4200's and 3600's and they are virgins".. LMAO!!! I asked for 20 4200's and he said I've seen the way you and your kids trash sportpacks, the 3600's are more rugged for you. So I got 20 3600's. Got home and the grimlins set in. #1 you can't get 10 cells in the tray if your life counted on it. #2 I can't seem to get the solder to stick anything... :huh:

[BoatDoc]

steve has 2 good articles on building packs under the "tips" section on his site

[Rex R]

looks to me like you would have problems fitting the cells into the trays in a side by side configuration(no room for wire/battery bars). second what doc said. steven has a good tutorials on building cell packs.

[Tuslow1]

Took another painsaking trip to the LHS, where he told me I had plumbers solder and that wont stick... (boy is he the brainchild, well he had one more up on me.. LMAO) he gave me some Deans solder, and like magic........... it stuck!!!!!
Please don't bash me for my green cell work and my Idea of making the boat run off 14, 16 or 18 cells without changing packs. the cells are made up as 9 cell sticks by way of 7 and 2 and a junction loop that will add all or bypass cells as wanted...

[Rex R]

guess you had more room than I thought, sry. problem with plumbing solder is that you need to use flux. rosin core solder has it built in(so to speak), it is possible to get 'electrical' solder that does not have flux(for use on circuit boards, I think), where you need to use soldering paste/liquid. looks like a fairly neat job. better than some I've seen.

[Tuslow1]

Ok Rex, now you are getting all Sci-Fi on me now. LMAO, I thought the Flux thingy was from Back to the Future.... :D

[BoatDoc]

since you've decided to wire your packs this way, you'll have to pay extra attention during charging. if you bypass the cells like you are talking about, you'll have to discharge them to the same point as the other cells in the pack...then balance the pack...then charge the pack. otherwise, you run the risk of overcharging the by-passed cells. it shouldn't be hard to maintain, just a little extra effort.

[Tuslow1]

and what might your charger of choice be??? I was thinking Triton2.....

[BoatDoc]

i don't have any experience with the triton. i have an astro 110d that has never done me wrong.

[Tuslow1]

Parts came in the mail today and let me tell you I've been at this boat all night... Got it all together (I Think?) short a antenna tube and a charger to heatup 18 cells. But I was so excited I got it together I popped in one of my sons 7 cell sticks and out the backdoor I went. Eased her in the water, gave her a slight nudge away from the edge and opened the throttle as she glided away... got into the middle of the pond and shut off!!! Did I mention I had no antenna tube so the antenna wire was still tied together next to the receiver...LMAO!!! The night is super calm (no wind) so it took about a hour and a half to drift to the other side of the pond.. But lemme tell'ya that was five seconds that was worth GOLD. :D

[Tuslow1]

It's almost mind blowing the way she runs on 14 cells, I can't wait to get the new charger so I can put in all 20 cells in her.. My Twin Pulse only charges 14.. I'm also wondering about the way it runs, kinda bouncy and I aldeady have the cells sitting up pass the center of the hull. I'm thinking the extra 6 cells will help plant it more, I don't want to stick lead weights on it... Take a look and tell me what you think? In the second video I moved the cells about 3 inches further foward..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1373988878168765591
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6192010809595458343

[Tuslow1]

Went out to run her on 18 IB 3600's today and on the GPS it ran 38.1 mph.. I was expecting more speed. I do have it slighty under proped with a X442, the mfg says 18 to 22 cells with a X447... Do you think the extra 2 cells (not going over 20 cells) and two steps up on the prop will bring it into the mid to high 40 mph range or should I just be happy with the way it is? I'd hate to spend the extra money on the prop and cells and only go a mile or two faster...

[Tuslow1]

Anybody??? Anybody???

[Tuslow1]

while playing with the FE Calc it is saying that the Prather S215 will take the boat with 20 cells into the mid to high forty's..... how close is the FE Calc??

[Tuslow1]

I still have not hit 45 MPH or better, but that wall is comming down!!! I noticed the other day while running it that it was kinda learching foward, when I opened the hatch I noticed that the small copper bushing on the end of the stuffing box was black and I could see that the wire took on some pretty good heat. Not only did it take on heat it welded itself to the wire(I was surprised I didn't smoke the ESC) So I ran down to the LHS to see what could be done. Shop owner said get your hardhat on we gotta do some ugly pulling to get it out. Well we did and it was locked on like a pitbull, never the less we got it out, as I asked for a replacment he laughed and said for what? "so it can freeze up again, you don't need it" I asked what was it there for and he replied " to stop water, but you will do just a good of job if you don't let the boat sit in the water for hours at a time". We checked the wire against a streightedge and other than the hot spot it was fine. I also grabed two 3600 10 cell sticks( I know my wife is going to beat on me for it but they were calling my name ) ran out back and WHOA!!! She went 41.8 MPH!!! I'm now thinking she will do atleast the 45MPH I want with the X447, if I ever get it...(HINT) If Offshore ever gets it in stock... (HINT, HINT) If Steven would just give me the dang prop... (HINT,HINT,HINT) LOL

[BoatDoc]

just a quick suggestion...you may want to move your RX away from the drive line a little more. i like to keep mine as far away from moving parts as possible, within reason, of course.

[Fluid]

If the boat is still pulsing/porposing like in the video, it is losing a lot of speed. Keep the prop solidly in the water and that speed will go up with no prop change. I'm not familiar with that particular cat, but try raising the prop an 1/8" at a time, keeping it parallel to the bottom of the sponsons. Adjusting the CG for and aft may help too. You may have to keep at it for awhile, but get it to run flat and smooth and it will be faster and run longer with less heat.


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[Tuslow1]

I purchased the hull with all of the hardware pre installed, the only adjustment I have is to move the battery trays back and forth to transfer weight. It is however running like a champ now!! I raced my son today with his SV27 (LMAO) needless to say he got mad at me. LMAO!! But with the aid of this forum and the wits of you guys we got the SV up to 35mph on 12 cells and 38.4mph on 14cells my 17 year old son made the vid but he didn't know what he was doing so when we came in to view it there was three 2 minute vids one of his finger, one of him walking to the other side of the pond and one of my younger son running to get his boat out of the water. My wife said she will do it but now my son don't wanna race me... LMAO.

[Kirker]

What did you do to up the SV speed on 12 cells? :confused:

[Tuslow1]

Beleive it or not replaced the cells. Stop using the cheaper 3000 mAh sport packs and now use the IB 3600's. BoatDoc told me somewhere in one of these threads about better cells, mainly speaking on the IB 4200's but my LHS said that they were a bit fragile for our beatings because the kids tend to run the packs till the heat melts and even burst cells. I guess you can say if I got LiPo's in this house sombody is gonna get hurt! And after seeing the 3600's come back in blazing hot, cool off, take several charges and keep powering the boats like the dickens they are the cells for me. Just for records in the past month NONE have been damaged yet and we charge and drain them five to six times a day. The 4200's might give a little more kick but I don't think they will take the baseball bat beatings we give out... :cool:

[Kirker]

And you haven't cooked anything yet with 14 cells?

[Tuslow1]

LMAO, nope the SV is killer on 14 cells.

[Tuslow1]

Son must have hit a fish and wife was a hatefull cam person as usual so vids are crappy and short but enjoy......
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8746726736506287637
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1452384052121566834
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3133001020529585902
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7239267552447777900

[Kirker]

If your son was running 14 cells, how many cells on your cat do you think would be a good race?

[Tuslow1]

Kirker, It don't matter I put my cat together to DOMINATE that lil red SV.. He poked fun at me many times after beating on my Nitro RTR's... But if it does matter, the Jolly has 20 cells in it but it is also heavier and longer.

[Tuslow1]

My son hung his boat out to dry and grabbed the cam for a 3 minute shoot of the Cat and here she is..... :wave:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4677812694060264891

[zakerid]

you should be able to get more speed if you can get the boat to run smooth... maybe change the batt placement.

[Tuslow1]

I'm finding out more and more about the boat the more I run it. The battery trays have been from as far back as they can go to so far foward the boat rides like a brick. The new mishap I'm seeing now is that I've had the drive wire has been in too tight, so tight that it is melting the teflon spacer infront of the drive dog. I added a lil play about 1/32 of space and I'll post the results if any.. The only other thing I can see to do is to change the prop(Go Bigger!!) or prop angle and I don't foresee that happening because it is molded in place and I refuse to hack on the boat to get another mile or two out of it and possibly screw it up. But all in all it's a blast, even skipping along at 42mph!!!

[Tuslow1]

Just went 43.2 MPH!!! I also noticed that the chop in the roostertail stopped as she came up to speed.

[Jeff Wohlt]

I have a replacement wire drive when you need it. I make them for bigger boats using .078 and .093 wire. They are solid.

[Tuslow1]

Jeff, how do I get intouch with you? And she just hit 46.1MPH, bouncing around like a basketball and yes I intend to do more playing around with the weight transfer. I guess the last time I had the cells full rear was when the bushing on the wire seized up. I'm starting to think it might hit 50 MPH with the X442 and who knows with the X447... :eek:

[Fluid]

Rather than going way up in prop diameter (and possibly suffering the negative torque reactions larger props sometimes causes on narrow cats) why not try an x640 or x642? These have greater pitch and for the same rpm will go faster while keeping the prop diameter under control. Worth a try.

It appears from the photos that you can't raise the strut or change its angle without major work - too bad. That would be the easiest way to get rid of the hopping. About all you have to play with is the CG and prop designs.


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[Tuslow1]

Thank you Fluid,
As you know, this is all new to me, and even though I'm a learner in progress, this boat tickles me pink and I really do appreciate all of the knowledge you guys pass on to me.
The MFG suggestions were all I mainly had to go on, so I went slow with that and now you got my brain tweekin again. I used FE Calc to ballpark the boat but never thought to try different props with the Calc, so I stayed along the X4 lineup. Now that I've got the boat running faster then the FE Calc says it should, I thought the only other option was to go with a bigger prop because I had no idea that there was a such thing as a BETTER prop. Now insted of the X447, I did Calc figures on the X6 line and the X642 and X645 might take me where I want to be with speed.
Now for the recap of today, so far I think I have a good setting for CG because the hopping is less and the low speed bouncing is a little more under controll. whith the CG where I have it now the boat runs 45.6 MPH. But if I throttle up too fast the boat starts jumping out of the water. I wish I could just lower the prop but my unskilled hands won't be doing any cutting on that hull. :confused:

[Tuslow1]

The best I can do with the setup so far @ 46 MPH..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7244103125282706624
but have no fear I'm happy as a, happy as a, well let's just say I'm happy. LMAO :D

[Jeff Wohlt]

You can catch me at jwohlt5362@yahoo.com

That drive line is taking a beating with it hopping like that.

[Tuslow1]

Well all I'm happy to say 50MPH fell and thats faster then I wanted it to go. This FE boat is a monster... 50.8 MPH!!! KILLER, and now I'm getting bored with it. I'm now thinking about a Hersteller Lindenau Cat but I have no clue where to get the hull, Anybody, Anybody??? :wave:

[cpee]

how did it do??

[Tuslow1]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6638178729122621122
If anyone is interested, I will post the final build tally and total cost... But trust me, it aint for the faint of heart.

[Tuslow1]

I got a question for anyone who can help..
Are you supposed to grease the Piano wire?? it is so smooth I don't see why but I will if you guys suggest it.
Why is it that the faster the boat goes the more problems I have with the driveline. the 2- 3mm set screws no longer want to hold. I got some case hardend set screws and that cured that but then the wire came out of the shaft.
I think I'm bout to stop trying to make it go faster and try just making it run a lil more stable and a lil more reliable. By the way she went 54.6 MPH and pulls beautiful SAW's with the X447/3 but as always turning it is a bouncy event. And as I watch the watt meter she is drawing over 94 AMPs, thank gosh I didn't get the 80 Cuda I think it would be toast by now. :D

[BoatDoc]

stable and reliable = good! keep the speed in check, and make sure it handles well and you'll be rockin'.

[Tuslow1]

I mean I'm willing to go back down in prop size and cell count to get it back to where it was fun and my son had a chance to beat me. I think I want to try my hand at putting together a MeanMachine, 12 to 14 maybe 16 cells max. Any ideas on a good setup? BL motor, cell count and prop size?

[Jeff Wohlt]

Yes you should grease the wire. Also a good lube on the stub shaft is a must.

I like to grease the wire and then drop some light oil down it and then install it.

If the stub came apart I can probably fix it for you. I also make them for SAW racing with a double lock...Locite and a set screw on the wire. They won't come apart.

You also need more than one set screw on the wire from the coupler. The one I sell has 4 on the wire and 2 on the motor. The wire needs a light flat side on it to hold better.