Spring powered cars

[TT-01 Mamba]

So my rocket power will not be allowed but has anybody ever tried some really strong springs in their car to get it up to 150 at the last 100meters?

[Mod Man]

Like a slingshot? ;)

Yes, I know what you mean. I am just giving you a hard time. :D

Am I using enough smilies yet? :) ;) :D

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

yes you are using enough smilies and i mean the springs to power the wheels not to launch the car. if you get some powerful springs and use them at the last 20 meters

[NotWalkinBlind]

I'm not sure what you mean by "springs to power the wheels," but it sounds like something that probably isn't allowed... it doesn't sound like something that can be controlled by the transmitter.

[TT-01 Mamba]

like your leg you push with your leg
coil up a spring then when you want it use a servo to let it go and it pushes like a lever or paddel on the wheels to make it go faster

[NotWalkinBlind]

Yeah, do that... that oughta get you up to 150 in a hurry. :cool: :D

[TT-01 Mamba]

thanks for the sarcasm

[NotWalkinBlind]

Dude... don't you think you deserve a little sarcasm? The way a spring that powerful would unwind would make the tires go up in smoke... there's no way to control it.

[TT-01 Mamba]

How am i supposed to know all the workings of the world when i'm only 13?
Explain that to me

[NotWalkinBlind]

No one said anything about your being expected to know all the workings of the world... but if you're thinking of something that is probably outside the rules... or on the edge at best... you should probably consider how you would build a prototype and think through it first.

Then, if it seems like it would or could work, post your idea. To just throw out an ill-conceived idea the way you did wastes everyone's time.

[TT-01 Mamba]

I was just trying to give people some ideas to help them go faster like jets and springs.
I can't exactly test the "ill-concieved idea" because i don't have the money or a workshop to buy a jet and make a spring prototype

[NotWalkinBlind]

If "jets and springs" were within the rules, people would already be using them.

[TT-01 Mamba]

so why didn't someone say that springs weren't allowed instead of giving me some stupid, pointless, unthoughtful, "ill concieved" sarcasm?

[fasterthanspeed]

Why arent springs aloud. Never saw this in the rules. you can just tighten it back up.

[Mod Man]

This is not really a bad idea, all things considered. Actually it is a controllable mechanism. The biggest issue I can see would be related to the released mechanism as well as the method to control the spring uncoil rate.

Honestly, just because something hasn't been used, doesn't mean it would not work. I run a heli tail gyro on my steering to stabilize it. As far as I know, no other top speed runner runs one. So, from that logic, mine shouldn't work. But, it works wonderfully!

Many people may think a spring does not have enough power or enough duration for something like this. But, 10 years ago, no-one would have thought that electric would ever surpass nitro in power and reliability. But, they have.

Never say never. :)

Opps, another smilie! ;)

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

Thanks for your support.

[Mod Man]

Sure. :)

I sent you a PM too.

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

Sure. :)

I sent you a PM too.

Matt

Oh yeah thanks. ;)

[NotWalkinBlind]

"The biggest issue I can see would be related to the released mechanism as well as the method to control the spring uncoil rate."

Dude... I don't know if it's the biggest issue, but it's certainly a huge issue... it's not something anyone is gonna waste any time on between now and the contest... especially not knowing if running a car with a spring and starting down near the traps would even be allowed under the rules as they are now stated.

I'm so convinced the spring idea is a total waste of time to consider, that I'll back up my position by issuing a simple challenge here.

If anyone can 1) GET A SPRING-POWERED OR SPRING-ASSISTED CAR PAST THE RULES and 2) GET IT ABOVE 100 MPH...

I'll personally ship you a case of your favorite beer... and this challenge is issued for next year and and all following years of this contest.

Or, in the case of Mr. Underage Mamba-Dude, I'll just mail you an R/C product of equal value of your choice.

I don't imagine I'll have to pay up. :D

[TT-01 Mamba]

"The biggest issue I can see would be related to the released mechanism as well as the method to control the spring uncoil rate."


If anyone can 1) GET A SPRING-POWERED OR SPRING-ASSISTED CAR PAST THE RULES and 2) GET IT ABOVE 100 MPH...

I'll personally ship you a case of your favorite beer... and this challenge is issued for next year and and all following years of this contest.
:D

1. i implied get it upto 130mph with motors and use springs to help pust it up at the last 50 meters.
2. If i can get it upto 20mph just on springs/elestic bands ( these act like pull springs and are cheaper) alone (beating the top speed of a stock tt-01 )within 3 months and post a video will you send me the beer?
PS i don't care if i'm underaged i think i deserve a beer if i can get a 100%

[NotWalkinBlind]

You said 150, not 130... also, you said the last 20 meters, not 50. Also, based on what I see, you never said anything about motors first, and springs for a fast finish.

None of it will happen... my challenge still stands.

[TT-01 Mamba]

So my rocket power will not be allowed but has anybody ever tried some really strong springs in their car to get it up to 150 at the last 100meters?

Oh yeah you really think someone will be able to get their car upto 150mph in 100 meters? the tyres would need phenominal grip.


Let me explain it in BIG LETTERS FOR YOU THEN.
YOU USE A MOTOR TO GET IT UPTO ABOUT 130MPH THEN USE SPRINGS TO HELP YOU GET THE LAST 20 METERS.

ALSO MY SPEEDS WERE JUST RANDOM FIGURES PICKED OUT OF MY HEAD.

Jeez, are some people just walking blindly not using their common sense?


Spring powered toy cars can easily go upto 10mph and these are for 9year olds. I've got a mini toy car made from bionicle with a wind up motorthat can go way faster than running speed.

[Mod Man]

You said 150, not 130... also, you said the last 20 meters, not 50. Also, based on what I see, you never said anything about motors first, and springs for a fast finish.

None of it will happen... my challenge still stands.

Man, you really need to lighten up. This is a public forum. You are being quite rude. This is a kid who is actually thinking outside the box. He merely asked a question. Cut him a little slack.

Matt

[quick5pnt0]

Man, you really need to lighten up. This is a public forum. You are being quite rude. This is a kid who is actually thinking outside the box. He merely asked a question. Cut him a little slack.

Matt

I agree. The idea wasn't really all that bad, and if engineered correctly it could work. Even if it didn't at least he gave it a try rather than doing the same old thing.

[NotWalkinBlind]

Hey, I'm fully lightened up... I'm ready to send a case of beer in celebration to anyone who can make an R/C car go really fast with "some really strong springs!"

ROTFLMAO

I'm the one thinking outside the box! LOL

[TT-01 Mamba]

Thanks Mod Man and quick5ptn0 for your support again.
I origionally intended this to be a posotive forum like my jet and rocket powered cars but instead notwalkinblind is challenging my every move.

[quick5pnt0]

Hey, I'm fully lightened up... I'm ready to send a case of beer in celebration to anyone who can make an R/C car go really fast with "some really strong springs!"

ROTFLMAO

I'm the one thinking outside the box! LOL

Put down the beer and step away from the computer. :teacher:

[TT-01 Mamba]

notwalkinblind, Just because you have the experience of 3600+ posts doesn't mean that you don't have to listen to people with less than 200 posts.

[NotWalkinBlind]

I did listen to you, dude! It's cool to think outside the box... I just don't think anyone can figure out a way to control "really strong springs" in such a way they could be used to boost a car's performance near the traps.

I also don't think "really strong springs" would get past the tech inspectors.

Don't feel hurt... it's not personal.

quick5, I was totally sober when I posted that. I feel sorry for you if you have to be juiced to have fun.
:D

[fasterthanspeed]

There wasnt any inspectors last time.

[TT-01 Mamba]

It's easy to harness to power of springs. There are little k'nex models that use elastic bands to power the drive shafts connected to the wheels. they had good acceleration and travelled for about 5 meters.
I don't know any rules involved. i have only been intrested in RC since christmas.

[Mod Man]

OK, I want to lay a few things out here.

#1 This is really not a bad idea. I do not know that it would accomplish the goal, but I think it has some merit.

#2 The rules do not exclude this other than one rule that states that the car must be driveable after the run. So, a spring only car would not work. But a spring assisted car (I think) would pass the rule book.

#3 This is a 13 year old kid who is really trying to come up with fresh ideas. That, alone, is worth something. I remember being in his position (lots of ideas, but too young to do anything about it). I spent MANY hours in the family garage with a hack saw, drill, and scrap aluminum trying to make a drag car chassis and mod my RC cars with very little success. Now, I manufacture my own helis and do all my own machining in my small hobby CNC machine-shop.

We need to encourage our future mechanical engineers. :)

Keep coming up with ideas, Bud!

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

Thanks again for peoples' support for this idea/me.
My dad worked all his life installing massive diesel engines in power stations and i fortunately have all of his knowledge.
I wonder how many 13 year olds know how a tuned pipe works, why jet engines are always rotating, know the difference between out-runner and in-runner motor and know that Julius Ceasar was never an emporer of Rome.

[Mod Man]

Heck, I'm 35 years old and still have no clue about how jet engines run.

Inrunner versus outrunner is an easy one, though (I'm a heli guy at heart, plus I have a monster truck with a huge outrunner). ;)

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

Heck, I'm 35 years old and still have no clue about how jet engines run.

Inrunner versus outrunner is an easy one, though (I'm a heli guy at heart, plus I have a monster truck with a huge outrunner). ;)

Matt


I wasn't talking about how jet engines run, i'm saying why they have to keep running.
Lol i just put down anything that came into my head.

[ajlovering12345]

Thanks again for peoples' support for this idea/me.
My dad worked all his life installing massive diesel engines in power stations and i fortunately have all of his knowledge.....

I thought the Dali Larma was the only guy who inhereted the knowledge of his forefathers!

:D :D

I agree with Modman, Keep up the ideas

[ajlovering12345]

Springs can power cars but they have a very low power to weight ratio. The energy stored depends on the strength of the spring and to get the power required the spring would weigh around 4-500lbs.

A little better is a gas cylinder. Compressing a gas is the same as compressing a sping. The problem is to ge the pressure you need a strong container and this would also weigh a lot.

There are busses in Scadinavia that run on a spinning weight. A 5 ton weight is spun up to 15,000 Rpm overnight and the stored energy is relased through hydraulics. On braking the energy is transfered back to the rotating mass.

The problem is that when the bus crashes the stored energy is released. The 5 ton weight comes loose and detroys the nearest bulding... LOL. There are also problems handleing the bus as the gyroscopic effect tips the bus over in the corners

Anyway engineers have toyed with stored energy systems for a while and they are not practical.

You need to get 5-10HP in a small package so your limited to whats available. Either a brushless motor with LiPo cells or a 2 stroke glow motor are the best technologies available.

You could use MAGLEV and this will give you 3000 mph in a few seconds but the vehicle runs on rails and its externally powerd so breaks the rules as do rockets and jets :D

Can you have wheel drive cars with jet or rocket assist?

Cheers

[TT-01 Mamba]

Thanks ajlovering12345. That's the kind of reply i like. No sarcasm or funny stuff.
PS check out my new idea called "yet another idea"

[ajlovering12345]

Thanks ajlovering12345. That's the kind of reply i like. No sarcasm or funny stuff.
PS check out my new idea called "yet another idea"

You didnt see my post about the Dali Lama then?

LOL

[TT-01 Mamba]

Yeah i did see it lol. But that was a joke. :D

[trailranger]

I once saw on JunkYard Warz spring powered bikes. Teams had to build bikes soley propled by springs. If they ran out of go, they had to re-crank down the springs before going again. I think the winner used a garage door spring, and the other team trampolines?

But what I could gather, governing the springs to give out the energy would be hard.
\
My Borther-in-law teaches physics at a High School and they build spring powered cars. They are called mouse-trap cars. With ball-bearings, tapered winding drum and precision alignment those cars can travel over 200 Feet really slow at first, but then about 7mph tops.

A compound bow shoots arrows pretty fast, so if you can find a way to store 300#'s of draw into you car and have an nocked peg bolted into the ground I guess you could shoot your car at 200MPH....or misfire it into the drivers stand.... :eek:

[TT-01 Mamba]

Lol, i never thought about bows or anything else that can store energy.

[marinearmeni]

I realize this is an old thread buuuuttt..... what about using a spring to get the car moving? You know, so you could pull a higher gear ratio (thinking nitro motors). It'd be like pushing your car to give it a little send-off and into its powerband.

[NotWalkinBlind]

Most guys wouldn't go for it because they don't want people laughing at their car when it goes BWANNNNNNNNNG as it jumps off the line.

[somedudeandanrc]

The idea may be plausable... but the springs required to hold that potential energy would be massive and heavy, simply slowing the car down in the first place.

BTW I did reconize that you were talking about using the springs after using the motor for the majority of the run... guess some people think different than others, heh :P

[somedudeandanrc]

oh yeah... tomorrow were gonna try rockets... they have a couple advantages..

No recharging no pushing :D oh yeah... the farther down the track you get... the less the car weights since it's burning up it's fuel.

oh, that was three :/

[TT-01 Mamba]

Most guys wouldn't go for it because they don't want people laughing at their car when it goes BWANNNNNNNNNG as it jumps off the line.

but people wouldn't be laughing if you fly past them

[NotWalkinBlind]

but people wouldn't be laughing if you fly past themAin't gonna happen.

1) Nobody's gonna come up with a spring design that'll work either for takeoff, or for a burst of speed at the end... too heavy, too hard to control, too complicated... if you don't believe me now, you will eventually.

2) These cars go down the track one at a time... this is a top speed competition, not a drag race.

:cool:

[somedudeandanrc]

Heck, I'm 35 years old and still have no clue about how jet engines run.

Inrunner versus outrunner is an easy one, though (I'm a heli guy at heart, plus I have a monster truck with a huge outrunner). ;)

Matt

It's ok, there's always wikipedia for everyone!

[wqqdster]

Ain't gonna happen.

1) Nobody's gonna come up with a spring design that'll work either for takeoff, or for a burst of speed at the end... too heavy, too hard to control, too complicated...

:cool:

Although I tend to somewhat agree with you, you gotta keep an open mind. Just because the knowledge or technology doesn't exist now doesn't mean that someone, somewhere isn't working on it. The technological advancements I've seen in my too many years causes me to NEVER say "It can't be done".

There's a outdoor 'garden train' club (I believe in the UK) who run spring powered large scale locomotives. They have these machines tuned to the point that they know exactly how many winds to put on the clock springs so that the train pulls right into the next station and stop at the loading dock.

Hey, Fasterthanspeed.....thanks for the servocity link. Lotsa cool parts there!

[TT-01 Mamba]

Ain't gonna happen.

1) Nobody's gonna come up with a spring design that'll work either for takeoff, or for a burst of speed at the end... too heavy, too hard to control, too complicated... if you don't believe me now, you will eventually.

2) These cars go down the track one at a time... this is a top speed competition, not a drag race.

:cool:

1 the idea is not to literally fly past them. it's not really that complicated.

2 but they will be watching at the drag strip side watching you


3 try and keep an open mind

[NotWalkinBlind]

There's a outdoor 'garden train' club (I believe in the UK) who run spring powered large scale locomotives. They have these machines tuned to the point that they know exactly how many winds to put on the clock springs so that the train pulls right into the next station and stop at the loading dock.Cool.

Not that it has anything to do with the RC Car Action World's Fastest Challenge.

It doesn't.

Unless someone wants their car to run down the strip and pull right up the timing light and stop.

I'll try to keep an open mind, though... you never know... someone might actually want to do that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gif

[TT-01 Mamba]

Was that a joke?

[somedudeandanrc]

Was that a joke?

Well... it must have flew over my head.

[trailranger]

In high school I built for a science competition a gravity powered car. The goal was to make the car move by force of gravity and stop at a predetermined distance ranging from 10m to 20m without touching the barrier.

I won! Distance was set at 15m and first attemp was 14m 99cm. I made the car from an old mousetrap car and constructed a tower ontop of it. Attached a pully hung my 1Kg weight and tied it to the drive axle. I used roll out to caluclate the number of wraps on the axle.

The same thing could be applied to a spring powered car. I even seen on JunkYardWars a spring powered bike race. Just the power to weight ratio is not good enough for really fast speeds.

[NotWalkinBlind]

Just the power to weight ratio is not good enough for really fast speeds.

But if you use really strong springs, it will go really fast.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/BeaverCleaver.jpg

Won't it?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gif

[ajlovering12345]

No......

[somedudeandanrc]

oh beaver.....

[ToeKneeD]

Why not try building an RC car using Zero springs?

[fasterthanspeed]

Wow what an inovator! Sounds like a good idea to me! ^^^^^

[balang_479]

Hey, I'm fully lightened up... I'm ready to send a case of beer in celebration to anyone who can make an R/C car go really fast with "some really strong springs!"

ROTFLMAO

I'm the one thinking outside the box! LOL

mhhhh

anyway... cool idea! i like it, you could have like a strong spring connected to a reel.. as the spring is released it could pull a string which is wrapped around a reel and therefore power the wheels, and you could setup the gearing so that by the time all the springs potential energy has been released you are at the end of the 1/4 mile.. but you would need incredibly low gearing, as the strong spring would only move like 2 inches while the wheels would need to spin at a very high RPM. Also very rigid chassis and reel would be needed to take the stress of the uber powerful spring..

[NotWalkinBlind]

Yes!

Build it, somebody!

PLEASE! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/LOLdude.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/binky.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/bitinggif.gif