Why isn't top speed more popular?

[Mod Man]

So, it sure seems strange that top speed running and competition isn't more popular. This forum is quite slow, with only a few regular guys posting. I have also done alot of searching on-line and there is really not much out there in the way of advice or even other people doing top speed research. Nic and I have discussed this at length. One thought I have is the difficulty and expense of building a top speed car that is capable of tripple digit speeds. But, the callange is half the fun!

Of course it may be that we are just on the threshold of this hobby really taking off in popularity. You never know.

What do you guys think?

Matt

[fasterthanspeed]

I think it is that people dont want to destroy a car by running it into the wall, and wasting all the the time and money in it. So their hesitant abgout it.

[ajlovering12345]

That never stopped me starting IC racing! I wrecked my car ever time i put it on the track for the first season. LOL..

Like Modman says its not very well promoted and there are very few organised comps. If I can find a decent place to run it might take off. I am hoping the local drag strip will hold a regular meeting for us maybe during the week when they are testing or something.

Cheers

[GT Freak]

could be cause of the cost of everything these dayz.

[trailranger]

Maybe because these events are held exclusivly by one publisher. Kinda hard to let other know about the event if the only read xtreme r/c and Driver..ect.

This event just needs to be hosted by a non biased party no concerned with sales.

If you want, talk to APRCRA to get the ball rolling to charter something. I would think they could do more for a speed event that RCCA>

[Mod Man]

Interesting.

So, what about just the average Joe building a car to mess around with? It seem like everyone views super high speed running as sort of a black art and they stay away.

I can attest to the fact that a 100+ mph car is NOT easy to build, that's for sure!

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

I think people are put of by the amount of money and all of the technical areas of high speed RC. Most people (like me) just want to bash around and post some ideas for people to try and not to be shot down by people who think that they are superior than others.

[Mod Man]

Personally, I am not big on organized competitions. I just like messing around by myself. I have a little disposeable income to work with. So, the cost is not a big factor for me as long as I do it a little at a time. I also have a small machineshop (CNC and manual mill and lathe). So, I can make pretty much anything I want. :)

I just like having bragging rights for the fastest car in my area. :D

Matt

[DrtFrds1]

Matt,IMHO,1st like some of the other guys,cost is probably the biggest factor.Familiarity with the equipment available might be another.I'm not saying the younger guys don't know about High-speed stuff,but alot of the mainstream RC'ers
are more apt to do TC racing,MT's,crawlers etc.Even in the power dept,you have brushless equipment from Novak,mamba,and LRP,out there and advertised.Unless they know already,some don't know about the Lehners,hackers,or more specialized equipment. :huh: I kinda think it's alot more of being around,and being involved in certain areas of the hobby alot longer,and knowing whats out there and available.I guess you could call some of us 'oldtimers'. ;) .............then there's X-Box,and I-pods popcorn


Dan

[Mod Man]

Good point!

I have a side business manufacturing RC helis and upgrades. So, I am very familiar with RC in general and specialized equipment as well. Helis are far more involved from an equipment familiarity standpoint. There is more time involved learning about the equipment than building and learning to fly a heli. So, you make a good point.

It is funny, I enjoy the building and research end of this. In fact, now that my car is done, I do not have quite as much urge to drive it because the technical challenge has been conquered. :D

Matt

[Eli the rc guy]

I just think that people want to go fast... but not ballistic like 100 MPH + cause then its not really fun anymore.

[zueslilbuddy]

Ya not like your gonna go 100mph and then be able to take a corner......now that would be cool.

[TT-01 Mamba]

You might be able to take a corner at 100mph, if you had a 1 mile turning radius. :)

[DrtFrds1]

I'd think about that a little,just check Cliff Letts 111 mph pass at the speedway.He's running into the corner going passed the radar gun I'd gather over 100 ;)

[Mod Man]

I totally agree that cornering is important too. My top speed car also corners wonderfully! It will not win any touring car races at 90+ ounces. But, it handles great and runs over 100 mph at 60% throttle. :D

I think top speed is cool. But, lets make sure the car is driveable too.

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

errrrrr... WHY? I am looking for the fastest top speed. I have a car that goes around the corners thanks..

[Mod Man]

I know. The whole point is for maximum top speed. But, my personal project goals include this being an actual RC car that can be driven around. I do not believe top speed cars should be required to handle corners well. But, that is my goal. :)

Matt

[nitrohead5300]

I think you should put a nascar body on that chassis and do ultra high speed oval racing on the banked veladrome tracks. I think it would be spectacular to see these cars running around the track at 100mph+

[Mod Man]

The closest oval track is 4 hours from me. I would love to do it, though. I have over 1 G of cornering (sustained circle, skid pad style) with my car. It would be cool to run it on an oval.

Matt

[nitrohead5300]

Most of the bike tracks are not being used anyway

[nitrohead5300]

Modman is your car 4 wheel drive??

[Mod Man]

Yes, it is running TC4 driveline components.

Matt

[nitrohead5300]

And your diffs are holding up to that much power?? Are they ball diffs? Did you do anything special to them??

[Mod Man]

They are totally stock ball diffs with nothing special done to them. I am absolutely amazed at the durability of them. :)

Matt

[nitrohead5300]

That is amazing!!

[fasterthanspeed]

Damn they must of changed the design, because on my tc3 the stock diffs melted together making them solid in the first run i had them with just a mod motor.

[Mod Man]

That may be the case. Mine are not even really tight. I am absolutely thrilled with their durability.

Nic Case had some issues with his recently. But, he was running more power and more weight.

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

Diffs only have to do some work when the car turns the corners. As your running up and down in a straight line they are not doing anything

Cheers

[Mod Man]

Actually they do alot under accelleration.

If, for example, the left rear gets more traction, the car will want to veer to the right (under accelleration). This rightward direction change will load up the left rear and give you even more traction there which will make it veer to the right even more and so on. Without a diff, the car becomes VERY difficult to drive with any amount of horsepower even in a straight line. I even tried a spool up front and the car would not track straight. It was far worse with a spool at the rear.

Nic and I did alot of testing and collaborating about this as well. If I could eliminate the rear diff, alot more possibilities open up for custom drivelines.

On a very narrow drag car, a live rear axle works well because of the very narrow rear end and long wheelbase. The leverage action of one tire hooking a tad more than the other is not very noticeable. But, with a wider car, it is a big deal.

Matt

[trailranger]

The 4WD drive cars really have a chance at laying down the most ponies.

I agree with Mod on yes you need diff action to prevent spin outs. My 1/12 scale pan cars will always spin out on me on asphalt if I goose the throttle and that is with a 27T stock motor. So i set the diff lose with some slip for about quarter second. On carpet, there is no slip or slide its full on traction all the time.

Now knowing that spin outs happens with stock motors, add 4+ more ponies and the same will surely happen at more than just the first 5 feet of acceleration.

For 4WD drive, I would assume you could set them up like a dirt oval car with a loose diff in the rear and a spool in the front.

Or you can just go three-wheeler and just use one rear wheel...no diff.

[Mod Man]

Even a spool up front affects straight tracking. I run my diffs as described in the TC4 manual. They are not too stiff, but stiff enough to hook well. :)

I would really like true active traction control.

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

All 1/8th cars run solid axles and I have one in my fast car. You can get the car to track straight by having 2 degrees of toe in. When the car veers to the left the weight is transfered over to the right loading up the right wheel that is trying to steer it to the right due to the toe in.

No need for a diff!

It does get a bit hairy when you loose front wheel drive as the back want to let loose and spin but with a longer car its not a problem

Cheers

[nitrohead5300]

If you are talking about 1/8 scale on road cars they usually run one-way diffs up front not spools and solid rear axles in back. If you look at a Serpent 1/8 scale onroad car you will notice that the front wheels are alot smaller than the rear wheels how do they get away without having the front end fighting the rear?? By using a one way diff. . The rear wheels have more drive that the front wheels because of a overdrive situration which is created by the side pullies which are of different sizes and the difference in diameter between the front and rear tire. When you take off the front wheels are turning over faster than the rear wheels but when the rear wheels match the speed of the frontwheels the oneway bearing in the front diff causes the front wheels to disengage and free wheel giving you more topend speed because the front wheels are free wheeling less drag. So in essence when you first take off and you need the extra grip you are 4 -wheel drive then when you get up to speed your 2-wheel drive because the one-ways in your frony diff disengage and freewheel. This might be something you may want to experiment with later after the event oneway diff has less rotating mass too.

[Mod Man]

I have run diffs and spools with up to 2.5 degrees of toe in and down to no toe in on two different cars. They do not track straight without diffs. However, part of that is the crazy horsepower I am running. With less power, diffs are far less needed. That may be why the 1/8 scale cars are not as sensitive to it. They are heavy and have alot of traction. They do have alot of power, but their horsepower per pound and per square inch of tire contact patch is not as high. Their horsepower is better matched to their chassis and suspension.

Even running a steering gyro, all the high powered setups I have tried do not work well without diffs. I am able to get on the throttle alot harder and the car is much easier to drive with diffs than without.

Matt

[nitrohead5300]

Spools and one-way diffs are not the same!! You said that you car weights about 90 ounces that is appox the weight of a 1/8 scale On road vehicle. I had a 1/18 scale Hpi Micro electric that I used to drag with I had a high performance motor in it running off of 8 cells and a oneway in the front . I smoked everyone I raced and my car was clocked at 50 mph. It was very fast in a straight line no pulling tracked straight and true but don't hit the breaks and turn instant spin out a oneway only gives you 2 wheel braking. Hey wait a minute Overdrive effect only works on belt cars not shaft my bad.

[Mod Man]

This is just my experience with my cars. But, again, I am speaking of my personal experience with my personal cars. Others may have a different experience than I.

Oh, also, I do not use oneways because braking is lost. :)

Matt

[nitrohead5300]

Good Luck ModMan I hope you go to the challenge and I hope you win!!

[TT-01 Mamba]

Good luck

[trailranger]

This is just my experience with my cars. But, again, I am speaking of my personal experience with my personal cars. Others may have a different experience than I.

Oh, also, I do not use oneways because braking is lost. :)

Matt

I would rather use a layshaft or center onway with a front diff than a
one way diff in the front... Seems if you tap the brakes at any turning angle you spin out. With center oneway, the car just feels more responsive on slicker tracks for off power steering, and on power steering is the same as without since you still use the stock diffs front and back.

So the front spool with rear diff doesnt pull the car in the steering direction? that is odd, it always seemed to work for me in dirt oval, and i would consider that a slick track and so would the right type of asphalt.

[Mod Man]

I am talking 100% about straight line accelleration. from my experience with numerous cars, for a very high power setup, differentials front and rear are needed or the car will wander badly under accelleration. This has nothing to do with cornering. I am talking about stright line acceleration on pavement with high powered cars.

I truely wish I could eliminate the diffs, I could do so much more with my cars from a custom driveline perspective without them. :)

However, I have tried it with a number of different cars and with a wide car that is high powered, diffs are needed front and rear to get the car to track straight under hard accelleration.

Matt

[rccardude04]

Mod Man... What heli company?
-Eric

[B4 Stealth]

I think it could be that it is very exclusive. think about, Top speed is all about just that, cars that go really fast can't do much of anything else but go really fast in a straight line, that gets real boring real quick unless you are an engineer who wants to try and figure out how to go faster, then it presents a challenge. you have to remember, challenges aren't fun if you don't have any idea what you are doing. same reason drag racing isn't very popular, at least where I live, because they only do one thing, and it is a lot of money for something that goes really fast in straight line, then turns around and tries again. just my opinion, :teacher: please no flames :wave:

[Mod Man]

B4,

Apparently you haven't read much of my posts regarding my car. It accellerates, brakes, and corners fantastically! It is, by no means, a straight line only car. I agree with you that it is not quite as fun 9for me anyway) building something that is not a good cornering car. My car will run 100+ in a few hundred feet every time, while remaining reliable and very good handling. That was my personal goal. I have no problem with people building long streamliners. But, for me, I wanted a normal, good handling RC car.

RCCARDUDE,

www.ballistictechnology.com

:D

Matt

[trailranger]

streamliners are not fun till they get going really really fast.
One little bump and you could have an airborn lawn dart.

Plus, with the long body, you can bumper stickers on the sides.

[If you can read this, you are driving too fast and too close]

[Honk if you are worthy of passing]

[What long, Hard and about to put the friction on]

[Want to know how to keep an idiot busy, read other side]

[Want to know how to keep an idiot busy, read other side]

[Incase of emergency, the last thing going though a road kill mind
could be my rear tires]

[I am wasn't speeding, it was the other guy infront of me]