A new CF supercar is born.

[Mod Man]

Well, I have been talking about this for a while and I felt it was time to show my car. For those who just want to know "How fast is it?" The simple answer is--------- I don't know. That is, I haven't had it wound out fully yet. I have seen 115mph on 6S while still accellerating big time. On 12S (different motor), the car went by at 100+ while wheel spinning an indicated 140 mph (4wd). Since then I have installed BSR cap tires. These tires hook very well. With the caps, the car has run 83mph at less than 30% throttle (in two seconds) and 100mph at 60% throttle. The weather stinks right now and the car has officially become faster than my street will allow. So, I am looking for a suitable runway to really wind it out.

Anyway, the car setup is as follows;

-Neu 1515/3D
-Thunder Power 2070 Extreme cells (12S)
-Castle Creations HV110 ESC
-Spectrum DX3 (love this radio)
-Futaba GY502 Gyro with digital steering servo
-TC4 drive components (basically stock other than a modified center driveshaft and 1 inch stretched wheelbase).
-BSR cap (radial) tires. AWESOME tires!
-Complete Eagle Tree data logging system with all accessories.
-Venom Speed Meter for wheel speed data (I have a radar gun too).
-CNC machined carbon fiber/plywood laminate chassis. This is an item I designed and made in my shop on my CNC with 7mm thick CF/ply laminate that is made to m y specs by my CF supplier for my helis products.
-CF body. I hand made the CF body by making a foam mold and laying the CF over the mold. The body by itself weighs 10.5 ounces. I need to thin it from the under side to shave a couple ounces.
-All up weight is 93 ounces.

The aerodynamics of this car are such that I have good downforce, but low drag. I did a HUGE amount of research and testing to come up with the final design. The front wheel wells are needed for front wheel steering clearance. I did quite a bit of testing to assure that the net drag of those wheel wells is zero. Also, the nose of the car went through numerous changes (hence the added body weight) to achieve the correct downforce/drag ralationship. I am not going to devulge the specifics of what I found as it is too lengthly to get into here.

The power system draws over 3800 watts continuous at full throttle. Also, the car accellerates at over 2.6 Gs (2.98 peak) and corners at roughly 2.5 Gs. (This is all data I have logged on my Eagle Tree).

Originally I speced the car for a Neu 1512. However, that motor built up with too much heat. So, I went to the 1515 you see with a finned can. That gave me a tad more power with a large improvement in heat dissipation. I also mounted two fans to the ESC and one to the motor.

When I got the car to the running point, I quickly found the motor heat issue and secondly, traction. Oh, also, the foam tires only last a few runs. So, I contacted John at BSR tires. He set me up with some touring car caps. These tires have good hook while allowing some wheel spin to protect the driveline from all the horsepower. They are also very long wearing. I am thrilled with the caps! Now, I just need to see if they will handle full speed. :)

I have about 30 to 40 hours in the body and about 30 to 40 more hours in the rest of the car (fabrication time only). Then I have about 5 hours in component programming and setup. Beyond that, I have about 100 hours in two previous TC4 setups to learn the drive system and what is needed for world class speed. So, this car has been hugely time consuming to develop.

At this point, the car has crazy horsepower (4.5hp), is super fast, handles (corners) very well, is reliable, runs relatively cool, and is very stable at high speed.

By far the most difficult part of the project was matching all components to work together, matching the drive system to the weight of the car and the CG, and getting the aerodynamincs matched to the chassis and capabilities of the car. When you are pushing the edge of the envelope, matching equipment and individual component setups is super critical!

Oh, I have so much power that gearing has proven to be only minimally important. I have gone up a few teeth and down a few teeth with very little affect. Basically I have it geared for 150 mph at full throttle under load. We shall see what it will actually do. :)

Anyway, I think that is it for now. I will give more information as questions are asked.

Matt

[streetforcegp2]

holy.......dang that car is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.........

[Mod Man]

More pics. :)

[streetforcegp2]

oh sweet more pics....

[masterchief06]

how sick is that thing?! Sweet rig, and I cannot wait to see that thing destroy the record! Good luck, good job, and even if it goes 0mph, it looks like its going 1000.

Congrats

[Mod Man]

Thanks. :)

I just got in from a few test runs and I have some interesting data;

The tires are absolutely, positively, PHENOMINAL! I would HIGHLY recommend these caps! I did a few full throttle, funnycar blasts up my street and the tire performed beyond my expectations. They left long black marks down the road and heated up to over 130 degrees (burned my finger on them). These tires really hook when heated up.

Also, this motor is alot more efficient than my previous Neu 1512. It really puts out alot of power and draws less current. I like it! And the dans on the ESC are really a great addition. Wonderful.

I am excited about this. I cannot believe how well it is running right now. I am almost frightened to really open it up and let it wind out. The big issue for me is that I am still running on public streets waiting for cars to go by between runs. That alone keeps me from winding it out.

I just had fun with it too. I drove it around and had a good time. It runs really well as just a plain old RC car, but really hits HARD when opened up. :D

Matt

[fasterthanspeed]

Your body looks really good. Is it like working with fiberglass? Damn ur chassis looks sweet. I might have to go through outfrontframes to get my cf cut properly.

[Mod Man]

Yes, CF is alot like fiberglass to work with. I did not use a vacuum bag or heat curing. I used normal room temperature epoxy (E-Z Lam) and CF cloth. The body has about $150 of materials in it.

As I mentioned the chassis is made from 7mm thick CF/plywood composite that I made on my CNC. The chassis is actually larger than the table travel on my CNC. So, I programmed and cut it in 4 steps, left front, right front, left rear, right rear with a refixturing between each step.

Matt

[GordonFreeman]

Very nice (Borat accent.)

Between You and B4Maz, we gonna have a show down! Let's get it on! 12 pack afterwards, ok?

Need to see some new records!

****!

[ajlovering12345]

Modman you have excelled yourself. That car is everything you said it would be and more. I cant wait to see the top speed. Dont wreck it before the official run!!

Can you give me contact details of where you got those tyres from. I am still looking for some capped 1/8th tyres.

Thanks

[B4Maz]

Wow, that thing looks like something from NASA. Great job ModMan. I'd love to see a video of that sweet thing in action.

[nitrohead5300]

Nice work Modman!!

[Mod Man]

Thanks Guys.

AJ,

Go to BSR tires and contact John. You can tell him I referred you. It will take him a couple days to get back to you. But, he is a wealth of information on tires. I do not know what he can do for you as far as 1/8 tires. But, it is worth a shot.

Overall I am very happy with this car. I wanted to wait to post pictures and a build thread about it untill I could get some hard numbers as far as top speed. However, I am still in the hunt for a suitable area for top speed testing. My street is 1400 feet long. I have never used the whole street. I use about 1000 feet of it at the very most (usually about 800 feet). In that distance, the car will exceed 100mph and stop again. So, it hits 100 in less than 500 feet. Not bad for a 93 ounce car on public roads with no traction compound. :) The biggest problem with my street is cars coming and going. Not only is it not long enough to wind the car out, I never seem to have a good opportunity to run it without any worry of cars. That is the biggest speed testing hold up for me.

Anyway, a friend of mine is a private pilot instructor. He is looking for a local airport with a suitable runway or taxiway for testing.

Matt

[nitrohead5300]

You have created a monster!!!

[Hard Case]

Excellent job Matt !!!

You’ve created a work of Art.
I'm glad you went with BSR caps. The Body looks great. It's good to see someone else's car with all the electronics stuffed into it.... LOL

You know what they say......
"Records were made to be Broken !"

Cheers
Nic Case

[fasterthanspeed]

You shouldnt do it on an airport. There are little and some big potmarks ll over it. Find a dragstrip with the coating on it.damn forgot what its called.

[NotWalkinBlind]

:eek: :eek: :eek: Badassss.

:huh: Stop running that thang on the street because the chances are wayyy higher you'll bust it up.

Also, don't dare paint it... it would cease to be Mr. Badassss if you did.

Maybe if you gotta have a little paint on it so you can see it better, paint the nose and sides some bright fluorescent color.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/NotWalkinBlind/BadazzTopSpeedR-Cb.jpg

[nitrohead5300]

Reminds me of a version of the batmobile that used to appear in the 50's comic book.

[balang_479]

absolutely outstand.... i wish i could come to the US to see this event and watch these bullets run...

[ajlovering12345]

absolutely outstand.... i wish i could come to the US to see this event and watch these bullets run...

I'm building mine in the UK. Come over in August when I got her running :D :D

Cheers

[Mod Man]

My wife's words when she first saw it---- "Wow, the Batmobile!" One email from a friend said "Holy Batmobile!"

So, I guess it is universal. :)

I considered bright colors on the sides (Bright yellow?). The green looks cool too. I have to think about that.

When I saw the body with clear resin smoothed out I was
determined to leave it all CF. So far it is relatively easy to see.

Nic,

I tried calling you the other day. I will touch base with you from Minnessota this weekend (at my in-laws' house). I want to throw some ideas and data your way. Man these caps get HOT from the wheel spin, but they hold up to the abuse VERY well!

I am also curious how your stuff is coming along.

Matt

[Mod Man]

You know what they say......
"Records were made to be Broken !"

Cheers
Nic Case

You and I both know how hard it is to see really big numbers. Is this car capable of exceeding 135mph? Well, I designed it to do just that. However, it hasn't seen that speed yet. It hasn't even seen full throttle for more than 1 second. So,that is hard to say. Also, who knows what other project cars are being built right now that may drastically exceed the prformance of my car. You are probably one of them. ;)

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

I just got word from Rockingham Raceway http://www.rockingham.co.uk

They said I could run my car there!!

If you have google earth try looking for Rockingham Motor Speedway near Corby Northants UK. You can see the track in high detail

[nitrohead5300]

Man I am crazy about the design of your car body!! That should slip right thru the air.

[DrtFrds1]

matt,The car is "SICK" :wow: ;)

[Mod Man]

I am goin out of state on vacation tomorrow through Tuesday. I will, most likely, bring the car to do more testing and tweaking. Maybe I can find a decent area to run it there.

Anyway, the car has turned out good enough that I am having companies start to send me freebies to run. :D

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

Thats when you know your doing the right thing!!

[Mod Man]

True enough. :)

Anyway, if I never break Nic's record, I have still really enjoyed the development of the car and refinement of the various systems as well as getting to know Nic and B4Maz (and a few others).

It is easy to throw around expected (Hoped for) performance numbers. But, untill those numbers are realized, they haven't happened. So, untill this car sees 120, then 130, and maybe beyond, I am not going to get too excited. It was designed to exceed 140 and be driveable and reliable. The latter has proven itself. Now I need to find a good long, secluded area to see if the speed is there. That is something I really am not sure about.

Lastly, like I mentioned earlier, even if I break the record, who knows what projects others have been working on that may be far beyond my car.

I think the potential is there for much greater speed than my car is capable of. There are many areas such as longer wheelbase, less frontal area, lower CD, etc. that would really push a car faster. Again, I wanted to make the fastest regular, good handling car I could. The question for me is "How fast are other regular layout RC cars compared to mine?"

Matt

[ki smoke]

man that is the ugliest thing i've seen yet.you need to just pull that body off...
and then send it to me,lol.excellent work so far and good luck with the record.

[Mod Man]

I am working on it, believe me.

Another issue is getting to the comp. The car is pretty much done other than some refinement. But, basically every weekend for the next couple months I am either out of state, or have big family events happening. So, flying out to Cali may not happen. Nic is hounding me to go and I would love to be there. But, it is possible that I may not be able to make it. My parents live in AZ, about 3 hours from CA. If I can swing it, I will fly to their place and my father and I can run out to the comp in July. But, I won't know untill the last minute.

So, all the speed I achieve may mean nothing to many of the guys on this board if I cannot make it. :(

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

Matt.

Come over to the UK in October for a run, I'll send you a ticket, seriously! I have 1/2 million air miles with Air France to get rid of

I got the 3 engines in the other chassis today and the carbon top deck arrives tomorrow. I should be ready for a low speed run in a week. I'll make some vids and take some pics

Cheers

[Mod Man]

Cool!

I would love to see it together.

So, when are your tires going to arrive?

Matt

[NotWalkinBlind]

Matt, do you think you'd gain anything from smoothing out the bottom... by gluing a thin sheet of lexan on the bottom of the chassis to cut drag?

Or do you need it to be open so the upward diffuser effect created by the body is maximized for downforce?

[ajlovering12345]

Cool!

I would love to see it together.

So, when are your tires going to arrive?

Matt

I dont need the tyres yet as I am using the normal foam ones until I have tested the car at low gearing and everything is OK then up the gearing and change the tyres.

I have some high temp solder on order to make the custom exhaust manifolds. The drive train is in the way of normal ones.

Cheers

[Mod Man]

Good observation!

The previous layout of this car (with my Vette body) had a smooth undercarriage. That was great untill the nose came up even a tiny bit. At that point, the car would blow over violently. Nic Case advised me to leave the bottom open to reduce the chance of blow-over. Not only does it diffuse the air under the car, but is does increase downforce a bit by creating a vacuum effect from the low pressure region behind the car drawing air up through the openings in the chassis underside. Of course, that makes this thing a 100mph vacuum cleaner! It does get a bit dusty when it is run. So, I have to clean it more often. But, that is the price you pay. :)

Oh, also, this car has so little air undernieth it due to the low ride hight and chin spoilers, that a smooth undercarriage really would not do much if anything to reduce drag. Now, if the car had a 6 or 7mm ride hight, that would be a different matter. But, at 3mm ride hight, it doesn't make a difference.

Great question!

Matt

[Mod Man]

I dont need the tyres yet as I am using the normal foam ones until I have tested the car at low gearing and everything is OK then up the gearing and change the tyres.

I have some high temp solder on order to make the custom exhaust manifolds. The drive train is in the way of normal ones.

Cheers

Cool.

Man, I can tell you from personal experience, you will be soooo tempted to open it up when you run it for the first time with your new engines! I have to fight not to wind mine out every time I run it. But, I just keep in mind the time and money invested in this thing. Also, I know, for example, that the car will run over 100 while still pulling nearly 1G and only running at 60 to 65% if its RPM limit. So, that gives me a rough idea of how fast it will go. But, I still want to crank it!

I am excited to hear your results. Honestly, there are do few people working on top speed (competitive top speed) that I am interested in every car project I hear about.

We are a very small club of enthusiasts, that's for sure. :)

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

That's a sweet car, that thing has got more electrics than a full size car,
Take the excess electric off if you do decide to do high speed, good luck on winning :)

[Mod Man]

True enough. There is about 6 ouces of uneeded electronics for testing. That would give me about 10% better accelleration. :)

Matt

[trailranger]

mod, yeah when it comes to judgement day, ditch the excess baggage. Till then, no harm knowing what your car is doing and how well it does it.

My wifey bought me a radar gun a few years back when I bought my first brushless system. Before then I used to have a venom speed meter. I took the rear drive cup and with a 1/8" dremel endmill bit i recessed a spot for the pick up magnet. I then shoegooed the pickup sensors right under the drive cup. It worked very well, the wires stayed out of the way, batterys didnt bump it.

That mgm compro 8012 is long dead from a soldering mishap and the 4600 motor is gone too. But my TC3 did get a chance of going into the 60's with that setup. Now I run just the NOVAK 4300 and 13.5T, I really thought NOVAK would be as fast as the MGM setup since it was sensored. I was wrong, I'll be lucky to pull off 30mph on the 100' with 13.5T and 40's with 4300.

[Mod Man]

I just got in from another test run. I still haven't found a decent place to open it up. But, I was having a blast running it up and down the street. At one point, I did a couple top fuel type launches (not nearly full throttle, though). On the second launch I let off because I thought I burned my ESC because of the smoke I saw coming out the back of the car. Well, the ESC is fine. Turns out it was tire smoke! Very strange to see an RC car smoking the tires on a normal run. On that run, I gave it about 25% throttle to start and ramped up to about 35% as it accellerated.

This thing is a BEAST!!!! :D

The only consistant problem I am having is the darn pinion set screw loostening up. I Loctited it, but it still loostened up. I will have to see what I can do about that. Maybe a slightly deeper flat on the motor shaft would work. Anyway, no biggie. I can easily sort that out.

This thing is wicked!

Matt

[Jayboy]

I just got word from Rockingham Raceway http://www.rockingham.co.uk

They said I could run my car there!!

If you have google earth try looking for Rockingham Motor Speedway near Corby Northants UK. You can see the track in high detail

Cool!
I live quite near Rockingham (in the Northants area)!

[ajlovering12345]

Its either there or Santa Pod Dragstrip!

:D :D :D

[Jayboy]

Thats funny too....i literally live 1 village away from Santa Pod!
It would be great at 'Pod, but you will be limited to just the drag strip, whereas at Rockingham, you could use a fair bit of the track.

[fasterthanspeed]

Wait, I thought you said you were doing a rc12l. Not a tc4. Hmm, maybe im thinking of somene else.


YES!!!!!!!!!! 500TH POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rustla]

that thing is sweeeeet, but i would probly get lost in all them wires lol

[Mod Man]

I do have an RC12L3 that I run as well. But, this thing is a blast! I also have an RC10L4 to build up. ;)

I have found 4wd is much easier to put the power down and to drive well at the limit than a 2wd. That is why I focussed on this car primarily.

Wait till you see my next 4wd car.

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

I uploaded a pic to the site, how long does it take to get on the forum?

Cheers

[myndseye]

Great looking car! If you are ever near Birmingham, Alabama, give me a shout. I have the perfect place for you to stretch that thing out.

[Mod Man]

That would be cool. I have no idea when I would be out that way, though. ;)

Matt

[Mod Man]

I have been doing more testing today. I crashed the car for the first time. I was running about 40mph or so when I had to abort the run. The car pitched sideways and caught the sod on the side of the road. No real damage other than a couple cracks in the body. Not bad for a barrel roll incident. :)

The body needed to be thickened in those places anyway. So, I will take the opportunity to do some other body work to it.

The crash was interesting. The car saw 6 Gs of load on impact. Cool data.

Oh, the tires are still holding up!

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

My car is all ready for a run tomorrow. All three engines in place and a wicked shell on. I managed to dig up some old small exhaust that fir nicely.

I'll take some vids and pics. i posted a pic but its not appeared on the thread yet

Cheers

[Mod Man]

That is very cool! I am excited to see how your car runs.

As for me, I just need a better place to run. The car is screaming for more distance so I can wind it out. Even at 100 and above (with decent downforce) the tires imediately break loose if I go full throttle. If I hold full throttle for 1 second, the tires smoke. Man, I never thought I would say this but, I have too much power! I have begun to have small niggling issues such as loostening set screws, things coming loose in general, and I have had a couple components come loose (servo tape let go) just from the G-forces of accellerating and braking. This thing must be a bit like what top fuel guys go through trying to debug their cars. :)

Matt

[Mod Man]

Oh, I am already designing my next car. I have everything I need on hand for it. The next car will be longer, though the same 190mm width, a bit heavier, more powerful to compensate for the added weight, and far better traction. I have a number of corporate sponsors for that car already and I am looking for a few more. Though I have everything on hand to build it, I would like to have better equipment for a few areas of the car.

As with this car, I will start a build thread for it when it gets going. It will take about 3 months to build, though. But, I have this car to run now, and the second car will be a longer project.

Matt

[Mod Man]

I'll take some vids and pics. i posted a pic but its not appeared on the thread yet

Cheers

Shoot me the pics on email at shumaker@owc.net and I can post them for you. :)

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

Shoot me the pics on email at shumaker@owc.net and I can post them for you. :)

Matt

Mail sent.

Yeah I was looking at your car and it does need to be longer.

Sponsors?? Now thats what I need! I'm just about to order the good engines and they are $700 each and I need 3!! I got all 3 of the practice ones for that!

The carbon comes today so I can change the aluminium top deck, that should look a bit better

Cheers

[fasterthanspeed]

Hey ajlovering12345, are u going to the comp this year? Ive probably asked, but forgot.

[ajlovering12345]

Hey ajlovering12345, are u going to the comp this year? Ive probably asked, but forgot.

Sorry cant make it. I'm working all July and then on hols with the family. I'm very interested to see what sort of speeds the cars get. I dont see any other IC cars so it would have been good to race.

If its a yearly thing I'll plan to come next year


Cheers

[Mod Man]

Some of AJ's pics.

[TT-01 Mamba]

that thing is (borat accent) "very nice"

[fasterthanspeed]

Do those perry pumps intercoolers keep it cooler, or do you see ant difference in performance?

[apollo]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h265/hpinitroracer/speedcar.jpg
?

[ajlovering12345]

Do those perry pumps intercoolers keep it cooler, or do you see ant difference in performance?

??? ***??

[ajlovering12345]

Apollo

The pipes have been replaced with small cone shaped ends so it should be better. I didnt actually start it with the straights on.

I had all 3 engines running today and I made a video but the camera is a weird format and I'm trying to read it. I'll try another camera tomorrow. Anyway it was pretty awsome! I put it down outside the house but I couldnt engage the cltches without spinning the wheels. It was slightly damp but i think I need to loosen the clutches

The carb came loose on one of the engines so thats it for today. I'll fit the telemetry speedo tonight and test it out.

More testing tomorrow

Cheers

[NotWalkinBlind]

Oh, the tires are still holding up!

MattDo you have another set you plan to use for the competition, if you are able to go?

It would be a shame to have one of the tires in this set crap out on you when you're really goin' for it.

[fasterthanspeed]

Hey Ajlovering12345, if you wanna send it to me i can convert it for u. My email is speedchallenger13@adelphia.net
It looked like u had the intercoolers on ur engines from perry pumps.

[Mod Man]

Yup, I have more tires. :)

These caps are phenominal.

Matt

Do you have another set you plan to use for the competition, if you are able to go?

It would be a shame to have one of the tires in this set crap out on you when you're really goin' for it.

[ajlovering12345]

I took a look at the perry pumps and they look good. Do you know of anybody who uses them?

I cant get the video out of the camera as I dont have the software that recognises the file format. I'll take some more video tomorrow on a digital still camera with video

[ajlovering12345]

Tested the car today. The road was dry so thought i could get away with some more speed. I gunned the throttle and the car took off but stripped the pulley on the middle drive. The belt was a bit loose and the pulley was a little worn so I have ordered new steel re-enforced ones with aluminium pulleys for more durability. Delivery is a week.

I was surprised how much more acceleration the car had with 2 engines running. I didnt think it would be that noticable. It went from sluggish to balistic!... Whats it going to be like with 3 going? These are still the practice engines and I havent optimised the exhausts, Engine Tuning, gearing and clutch settings. This car has some good potential!

I have stiffend the sides of the shell with carbon fibre rod so it doesnt flap around at High speed. The shell is badly in need of a paint job.

Cheers

[TT-01 Mamba]

Just one quick question.

When people go in for top speed with nitro engines, on their run do they run the nitro engines as rich as possible to get beset performance?

[ajlovering12345]

For top speed you will run your engines leaner than you would if you were racing a final. This will give you more top speed but the engine will overheat. This doesnt matter if your only on full power for 15 seconds

My settings will be to drop the head clearance and use a cooler plug with 35-50% nitro. Drag racers use 50-70% nitro and lower the head right down and use a very cool plug. The engines dont last like this though

My prep for a run takes ages.

Start engine 1 and tune. Run from start over measured distance and tune engine for max performance

Stop engine 1 and repeat above for engine 2

Stop engine 2 and repeat for engine 3.

Start all engine and run for top speed.

Adjust clutch, 2 speed change point, gearing, engine settings and repeat.

About 1-2 hrs of prep before a decent run

Cheers

[fasterthanspeed]

would it be bad to take the head off completely?
ill be runnin 40% odonnel.

[FninjaP90]

Wait so why is ajlover posting all his stuff in this guy's thread?

[ajlovering12345]

Modman you want me to start my own thread?

I'm as interested in your car as seeing mine go as fast as it can.

(see my thread)

Cheers

[Mod Man]

No big thing. ;)

I figured since there is action on this thread, it is fine to post other pictures.

Oh, I just got in from some test running at 6AM before traffic built up on the road. I have come to a very interesting conclusion-------------- It is indeed possible to have too much horsepower. I am up to 4.54 HP (I keep squeazing a tiny bit more here and there) and the car just won't hook in the distance I have to work with. I ramp the car up to 85mph, then sqeeze the throttle and the tires smoke. They don't just spin, they SMOKE! I also ran off the road twice and rolled the car. One roll gave me over 18Gs of load! I torn off the chin spoiler on my body in one wreck. That is fine because I want to lengthen it for more nose downforce and I will make Lexan side dams that are larger than my CF dams for more rear downforce. These changes are needed for more traction and more straight line stability. I also need to get my high end gyro fixed. This gyro is not happy above 100 and my steering "Feel" goes completely away at that speed. My other gyro never felt vague as this one does at super high speed.

Anyway, this top speed thing is really alot harder than it looks. I know I have the horsepower and aerodynamics for EXTREMELY high speed, but I am overpowering my street and even my radio. My Eagle Tree is picking up alot of glitches even though they are not coming through my ESC and servo.

At any rate, the driveline held up, the power system held up, the chassis and all other components help up fine. I just need to get he power to the ground and regain my straight line tracking.

Oh, have been nervous to run the car on this street with so much power, weight and speed. That is a problem as well. I need a better place to run.

Matt

[B4Maz]

No big thing. ;)

I figured since there is action on this thread, it is fine to post other pictures.

Oh, I just got in from some test running at 6AM before traffic built up on the road. I have come to a very interesting conclusion-------------- It is indeed possible to have too much horsepower. I am up to 4.54 HP (I keep squeazing a tiny bit more here and there) and the car just won't hook in the distance I have to work with. I ramp the car up to 85mph, then sqeeze the throttle and the tires smoke. They don't just spin, they SMOKE! I also ran off the road twice and rolled the car. One roll gave me over 18Gs of load! I torn off the chin spoiler on my body in one wreck. That is fine because I want to lengthen it for more nose downforce and I will make Lexan side dams that are larger than my CF dams for more rear downforce. These changes are needed for more traction and more straight line stability. I also need to get my high end gyro fixed. This gyro is not happy above 100 and my steering "Feel" goes completely away at that speed. My other gyro never felt vague as this one does at super high speed.

Anyway, this top speed thing is really alot harder than it looks. I know I have the horsepower and aerodynamics for EXTREMELY high speed, but I am overpowering my street and even my radio. My Eagle Tree is picking up alot of glitches even though they are not coming through my ESC and servo.

At any rate, the driveline held up, the power system held up, the chassis and all other components help up fine. I just need to get he power to the ground and regain my straight line tracking.

Oh, have been nervous to run the car on this street with so much power, weight and speed. That is a problem as well. I need a better place to run.

Matt

Uh oh, it looks like I'm going to have too much power then, Matt,lol. I'm using a Neu 2215 on 12s. If I pull 130 amps on a run, I will be making about 5300 watts (7hp).

http://nick.maslowski.googlepages.com/CIMG1218_small.JPG

[nitrohead5300]

Please find a better place to run. If you could get some tires that are slightly wider for the rear it may help your traction problem. Since you have an excess of power it should not slow you down that much.

[ajlovering12345]

Hi

I stripped the side belts on my car today for the 2nd time. I also have too much HP. I have ordered new 10mm wide 5mm pitch belts that can take 74lb instead of the measily 10lbs on the 2.3mm pitch ones I used.

Heres a vid of the 3 engines working. Sorry about the sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnyDXLX0vfw

Cheers

[TT-01 Mamba]

You've removed the video?

[ajlovering12345]

The sound was messed up so I uploaded a better version. I changed the link so should work now

[Mod Man]

I have the body off the car and I am going to lengthen it by 1.5 inches, increase the chin spoiler leading edge length, and increase the height and length of the side air dams. The side air dams will be Lexan instead of CF because of their size (for esthetic reasons).

With the body off, I decided to do some gyro programming and overall drive train torture testing. In my testing (60 to 65 mph on the street in front of my house), I learned more about the car. #1 This is actually a great drifting car as long as I stay under 25% throttle. #2 The cap tires grip phenominally when they are very hot. #3 Cap tires have a higher chance of failure when hot. ;)

I blew out my right rear cap doing some drag car launches. I was trying to get a better feel for the car under accelleration. My wife was watching when I told her "See that accelleration a crazy wheel spin?"-----"That was less than 50% throttle." Then I gave it about 75% throttle in a good solid launch. That heated up the tires (and layed some big black marks). On the next run, I gave it 50% for 1/2 second or so, then ramped it up to about 75% throttle and promptly blew the right rear cap. The tires were crazy hot and gummy. That is what blew it out.

At any rate, I have a spare pair of caps. Plus I am ordering 4 more.

I have been learning quite a bit about this car. Once I get the body modded, it will be ready for testing at a better strip.

Matt

[Mod Man]

I went out and did some more testing. I decided to run the car on 4S and do some bashing around with it. What I found is interesting.

First of all, the car accellerates with very similar characteristics on 4S as 12S. That is, the traction never changed even though the voltage did. The car still accellerated at a peak of over 2Gs and an average of 1.5 to 1.8 Gs throughout the run. Also, the car handled the power in a very similar manor to running 12S. Therefore, I can safely assume that 12S is not too much for the chassis to handle. On 12S, the power system draws over 3800 watts on 12S and 1000 watts on 4S.

Now for some more numbers;

The car wound out at an indicated 57mph on 4S. That is probably closer to 60mph because I have a slight fudge factor of about 3% to 4% to allow for wheel spin. So, that 57mph is a very conservative number. I was quite surprised. I thought it wouldn't break 40mph with the motor KV and gearing I have on such a low S count. Very encouraging! Tomorrow I will do some more testing on 6S2P to see how the car does. What I am trying to do with this is get a better baseline on what the chassis is doing without having 4.5HP to deal with. In case you are wondering, driving a super powerful car is not a matter of simply having good throttle control with your trigger finger. It is extremely hard to hang onto that much power. AJlovering will have this same problem. ;) Of course, too much power is a fun problem to have!

Well, I think that is about it for now.

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

Hi

Your going to need the extra HP above 100mph. The problem is how to handle all the torque bdefore you get there. Try setting the throttle servo speed very low as suggested earlier. if you calculate it will take 11 seconds to get to top speed time the throttle response and adjust the settings so that it applies 0-100% in 10 seconds.

With all your electronics i'm sure you can adjust the curve as well. Have you got multi point adjustment on the curve?

Imagine the problems I'm having. Your motor is guarenteed to produce the stated power and its a direct connection to the drive train.

I have to deal with tuning the engine (Low middle and high needle settings on all 3 carbs), Exhaust lengths for peak power, Head shimming, Nitro content of fuel, Plug type, Clutch settings (Spring rate, Clutch gap, Clutch weight), 2 speed engagement. The there is all the same problems your having with car setup etc.. All the past years of 200mm racing are coming in handy.

Figuring all this out is the fun part for me.

[Mod Man]

Figuring this out is 90% of the fun for me too.

The funny thing is, with a 2hp power system, the car runs very well up to 95mph. With 3hp it runs up at 115mph. With 4.5hp, I ramp the car up to 85 or 90 mph then roll on the throttle. The car breaks 100 easily, then smokes the tires. I have only touched full throttle a couple times with this power system and only for a split second. The issue is that at 100mph, the car is so hard to see because it is covering a couple hundred feet per second. So, it is difficult to time the throttle just right.

Yes, throttle ramping would be good. My MGM ESC I was running on 8S was wonderful because it had ramping built in.

I am also looking at making a slipper clutch. That would be a great cure for this. If nothing else, this is a greater challenge than any other RC project I have ever had.

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

I've just finished my rc18t with mamba 6800kv and it's all the power and speed ill ever need.
But good luck both of you in the race.

[ajlovering12345]

That makes me wonder. My original idea was to re gear a 1/8th car and use just one engine. It has 2.5HP and weighs 2.2 KG so more like your car. The only reason i didnt do it was I have always wanted to build a multiple engined car. Some people in the know have said a multiple engine car will not go any faster than a single engine, I might just prove them right. Even if it doesnt its fun finding out!

[Mod Man]

I totally agree! I really enjoy the development process. Nic Case and I have gotten to know each other. He and I think VERY much alike. The difference between the two of us is, Nic is focussed on top speed 100%. He wants to see the numbers. I like the development process. That is one reason why I may never top his speed wether with his previous car or any future car. Nic is focussed. It will be VERY difficult to beat him. I am not as focussed on the top speed number only.

Do not get me wrong, I would LOVE to see some huge numbers with my car. However, I am also just enjoying development and running my car on the 1500 foot road outside my neighborhood. Yes I want the highest top speed I can achieve. But, I also want to see how fast I can go with the street I have to work with. I also want to find the limits of each component.

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

double post

[ajlovering12345]

I'm pretty new to this but top speed is the goal. My car cant turn around in my road as its too long and has a very large turning circle. This is to give it stability at high speed, dont care about the handeling at low speeds or how good it handles the corners.

The most frustrating thing is waiting for parts!! 7 days before i get the new pulleys and belts:(:(

[ajlovering12345]

I found some tyres!!

Made by an Italian company for rally cross cars that do Rally Game. They come on a standard rally cross rim but are solid molded rubber and very soft. I didnt measure them but about 3 1/2" dia. The rubber is about 1/4" thick and the tyres about 50mm wide

I'll get the details tomorrow but they look ace for what we are trying to do

Cheers

[Mod Man]

I am working on some cool stuff behind the scenes too. I have been talking to a number of people regarding our traction issues, throttle control, drivetrain/traction/aerodynamic interaction, etc.

The more time I put into this whole top speed thing, I more I realize the huge amount of variables there are to this and the science involved in making power, getting it to the ground, and making the car willing to be punched through the air at stupid speeds. :)

Matt

[TT-01 Mamba]

Make sure the police don't see you going 100+ mph down the road or you'll get a speeding ticket :)

[ajlovering12345]

For top speed i'm afraid electric cars, properly designed will always beat an IC car. Electric motors are more reliable and produce 100% torque the moment they start to turn.

I am seriosly thinking my next project will be an electric car (spit.... spit...)


:D:D:D

[fasterthanspeed]

For top speed i'm afraid electric cars, properly designed will always beat an IC car. Electric motors are more reliable and produce 100% torque the moment they start to turn.

I am seriosly thinking my next project will be an electric car (spit.... spit...)


:D:D:D

I cant believe you said that!!!!!!!!:eek::eek:
You can go wash your mouth out with soap for saying things like that.:mad:
I shall never join the electric crowd. I have a tc3, and i hate it. Thats why im selling it.

[ajlovering12345]

Yeah your right, soz!

I have a RR12L3 and a Yokomo Bd with a 3.5 turn Novak Brushless in it and 4900 Lipos. I only use them when the weather is crap and we have to race indoors.

BTW the pulleys and belts arrive tomorrow:D:D:D

I will have the car up and running by the weekend.

Have any of you guys registered with The Guiness Book of Records? i registered and told them about the speed attempt and they gave me a form to fill out.:D

[Mod Man]

I have run nitro and electric. There are benefits to both. This is just like the Ford versus Chevy debate. Its all good.

My mindset is, whatever you've got, gear it up and go out and run! :D

Matt

[fasterthanspeed]

Im almost done with my car!!!!!!:D
Ill be showing my car either tomorrow or Friday.
Im so happy. Its almost done.

[ajlovering12345]

IC or Electric????

[fasterthanspeed]

Nitro. Need a challenge. jk.

[ajlovering12345]

How many engines an what size?

[fasterthanspeed]

one engine. Its an AXE Rossi Maranello .21.

[ajlovering12345]

Well the new pulleys and belts arrived and as I hadnt modified the layshafts to take the 5mm pitch pulleys I fitted the 2.5mm pitch ones I had ordered previously. As the pulleys were much larger and have more contact area they would be a lot stronger.

I started the one engine and was nice and free with the clutch engaging and spinning the wheels perfectly. A few blips of the throttle and I opened it up for more speed and the belt snapped!!

DAMN!!!!

Thinking it was probably a duff belt I fitted another and tried again. Same again! After a few revs a bit more speed and SNAP! BOTH belts failed!!

After some investigation it dawned on me what was happening. As the speed increases the 2 speed clutch on the layshafts connected to th engines that are off suddenly engages and the gears go from 0-15,000 rpm instantly. This loads up the belts and breaks them.
To run the car with only one engine you have to dissengage the 2 speed on the other engines.

I think the belts are slightly under strength so have decieded to fit the 5mm pitch belts. These take 74lbs load instead of 14lbs. This and only running the car with 3 engines running will solve the belt issue

[Mod Man]

Cool.

Matt

[trailranger]

Aj, I saw your car, looks way better than my basla mockup ($5 to find flaws is cheaper than $200 in CF)

Shouldn't you try to exhaust your pipes out the rear and cover the top?? Venturi Effect to reduce rear drag?

Yes Electric would be the way to start next time. I would think a 1/12 car streched just a tad like the 1/12 oval cars would really zip on with the novak 3.5. Funny, I have spare novak 3.5 and spare CRC 6pack 1.12 car. Just bolt on the longer motor pod and some Cap tires and I should hit 100 easy.

[ajlovering12345]

I have taken the Red pill so I need to see how deep the rabbit hole goes!!

This car is the beggining. Lets see how fast it goes and why it cant go any faster then fix it or redesign it or come up with a different concept all together.

Cheers

[Mod Man]

Aj, I saw your car, looks way better than my basla mockup ($5 to find flaws is cheaper than $200 in CF)

Shouldn't you try to exhaust your pipes out the rear and cover the top?? Venturi Effect to reduce rear drag?

Yes Electric would be the way to start next time. I would think a 1/12 car streched just a tad like the 1/12 oval cars would really zip on with the novak 3.5. Funny, I have spare novak 3.5 and spare CRC 6pack 1.12 car. Just bolt on the longer motor pod and some Cap tires and I should hit 100 easy.

Stretching a 12th scale car is a good idea.

From an aerodynamic perspective, low frontal area is the key. But, traction is an issue with 12th scale tires. Also, don't assume 100 is that easy to hit. 80 is easy to hit. 90 is doable with off the shelf stuff. 100 requires quite a bit of experimentation and alot more power.

There seems to be a barrier, first at 90, then at about 108 or 110. I found 88 to be pretty easy to hit with enough power. Beyond that, true aerodynamic testing was required.

Again, starting with a 12th scale car is a great way to hit big numbers. For one thing, equipment is cheaper, you automatically have less frontal area, and the cars are pretty simple. However, traction is an issue and so are the bodies. 12th scale bodies are very thin and deform badly at high speed. I have a 12th scaler with a Neu 1112 on 4S. It hits 90 easily, then the body deforms and the tires struggle.

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

Im working out of this guys basement. He has a tethered racer he built in 1958 and he got 80 mph out of it before the tether broke!!

The engine block was hand cast from moulds he made himeself! I wont feel justified unless I reach 120-130

[ajlovering12345]

Man what a day! The new Alien Ware laptop went down and I lost everything on the HD. I am just back up and running.

I have installed the high speed ratio on the car and got the new capped tyres. I tried them on the car and they grew by 3mm at low 1st gear revs. I dont know if they will hold up.

I also got the new speed gun I won on ebay! Dead cool!

I modified the TX with 2 x 3300 Nimh stick packs at 7.2 volts each plugged into the bottom. The voltage shows 16.7V and it works perfectly. I also changed ot 40Mhz and will test the range later.

I ran the car with 1 engine but due to the tall gearing and heavy car the clutch was spinning so much it heated up and meted the 1st and 2nd spur gears. I changed them out and tried again with all 3 engines and they seem to work OK.

Off to Mallory Park Race Track on Thursday to run the car down the back straight.

Cheers

[NotWalkinBlind]

I have installed the high speed ratio on the car and got the new capped tyres. I tried them on the car and they grew by 3mm at low 1st gear revs. I dont know if they will hold up.Were you performing that test/measurement with them running free in midair? I don't think they deform much when they're on the ground.

[ajlovering12345]

Just back from the track. I managed 79 mph on the 3rd run. The capped tyres were shredded after 2 runs on the track. I'll be using hard normal tyres from now on.

I was just getting the hang of it and the starter box blew up! The gearing was too tall so I intend to swap the pulleys over at the back so its 16t - 18t

I was happy with the handling if a little twitchy but I can sort this out. I removed the front roll bar but didnt get to try another run. Next test will be with rear roll bar and harder springs.

[TT-01 Mamba]

When is the actual competition because i can't wait to see what speeds people get.

[NotWalkinBlind]

http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?t=237608

[Mod Man]

It has been a while since I posted any progress on my car. But, here is some info;

A week ago I blew out my rear end gears. They did not strip, they melted! This happend as a result of numerous hard launches after a bunch of normal running on my street. Basically I torture tested the car to see how long it would take to blow out the driveline. Now I know. :D

I also found that my Thunder Power 2070 cells are not up to the tast of pushing this car so hard. I needed just a small amount more capacity. So, I went to Kokam. However, they are out of the cell capacity packs I need. So, I ended up ordering Flight Power 2170 cells (three 4S packs). These cells should give me 4000 watts of power and have a bit more tolerance to the abuse than my TP cells had.

I also went way up in ratio. The tallest the car has ever been is 2.17 to 1. Now it is 1.86 to 1. I have also done a bit more to the body (bodies) for better aero. These changes should net a decent increase in speed.

All this is a moot point, though, untill I find a longer place to run the car. I only have 1300 feet and really only about 1000 that is useable. About 115mph is the maximum I have been able to wring out of that street (accelleration and braking combined) with the traction I have. So, I need more room to run it.

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

Hi

I see we are have cars that are evolving after each run. I have just fitted the 4ed system and will be testing the car in a day or so. Dont forget to poast pics and vids of testing guys!

Cheers

[Mod Man]

I got my Flight Power packs today. Oh, it is my 36th brithday today too! :D

Anyway, I will be working on it more this weekend.

Matt

[fasterthanspeed]

Happy birthday Matt. I hpoe you have a good birthday.
I hope those cells are good enough. lol.

[Mod Man]

Thanks Man!

The cells should be fine. Basically I need about 5 to 10 percent more kick than my TP cells were giving. These are right there. ;)

Matt

[rezenclowd3]

Yup, Flightpower LIPO's are EXCELLENT! Good choice.

[ajlovering12345]

Just back from testing the car. See the vid at http://ziggy12345-myspeedattemptcar.blogspot.com/

Cheers

[rezenclowd3]

I want to see MOD MANS post a vid!!

[ajlovering12345]

Yeah me too. Wheres the vid Modman????

[ajlovering12345]

BTW I contacted the Guiness Book of Records and got this

The current record is:
<p>The top speed ever reached by a battery-powered radio-controlled model car is 178.63 km/h (111 mph), set by the 1:10 scale Team Associated RC10L3 Oval Racer car at the Irwindale Speedway, California, on 13 January 2001. The car was driven and built by Cliff Lett (USA) of Associated Electronics.</p>

[Mod Man]

Yeah me too. Wheres the vid Modman????

I know, I know. I am bad about video because of needing a second person while I run. I do about 99% of my running alone. With my new cells here, I think a vid is a definate possibility very soon. ;)

Matt

[fasterthanspeed]

Hey Matt, how do u set up the gyro on the controller? ve got the gy401 gyro, 9650 servo, and 3pk radio.
I just dont wanna ruin my radio or gyro. lol.

[Mod Man]

You wont ruin anything if you set it up wrong.

Basically, plug the servo into the gyro, then plug the main gyro plug into your steering port on your reciever. After that, plug the remote gain plug for the gyro into the third channel on your reciever. You will adjust the gain (sinsitivity) by that third channel. :)

Matt

[ajlovering12345]

I got the 45 shore tyres today and they are slightly larger than the 37 ones I had at 79mm. I fitted the 18T pulley on the front layshaft giving me 4% overdrive to the front wheels with 72mm fronts.

I managed to sort out a spare engine. A team edition JP R03. All thats left is to machine some aluminium shoes for the centax clutches as the V6 ones might not get here in time. The radio gear is sorted so looks like i'm all set!

Cant wait!!

[ajlovering12345]

I made a bright red parachute for the car today. It deploys on operation of the 3rd servo. I dont really need it but thought it would look cool at the end of the run.

I got the V6 clutches but need to mod the chasis so they fit. I'll leave them till after the event.

Cheers

[ajlovering12345]

Had a bit of an "off" today. Into the grass and through the air at 88mph. I let go of the button that reduces the steering to 15% and it shot straight left.

I broke a few parts and lost a few opther. Nothing major. It will be up and running again tomorrow

[alpinesky1]

You wont ruin anything if you set it up wrong.

Basically, plug the servo into the gyro, then plug the main gyro plug into your steering port on your reciever. After that, plug the remote gain plug for the gyro into the third channel on your reciever. You will adjust the gain (sinsitivity) by that third channel. :)

Matt



Mod Man, i have the futaba 109 gyro to help my steering but it looks just like the d-box an has a pot to adjust it from 0-100% an i cant do it on the fly, if i get the gyro u have basicly i can adjust it by my 3rd channle?
btw whats the name of your gyro?

[Mod Man]

Yes, you can adust it on the fly. I run a GY611 gyro. If that is too expemsive for you, a GY401 will work too.

Oh, the D-Box is a relabeled 190. ;)

Matt

[fasterthanspeed]

Plus the g190 is like $20 cheaper than the d-box. Thats what i put on my dads car. Works great.

[alpinesky1]

WOW thats alot of money, i have a brushless truggy an ride it off road an on a track, i do some high speed runs on my road, so my g190 helps keep the truggy stright durring high speed runs & makes if fun driveing offroad, i think ill stick with my g190, if i ever get a onroad car i mite spring for the gy401...

is there a big diffrents from a g190 vs a gy611 controling wise?

[Mod Man]

Yes, a HUGE difference. But, part of that is the gyro and part of that is the servo it comes with.

Matt

[rezenclowd3]

To truly appreciate the gyros, fly helis or jets;-)

[Mod Man]

You can say that again!

I have flown my heli without a gyro. Oh, MAN! Talk about difficult.

Matt

[rezenclowd3]

And imagine that thats how the pioneers started the heli hobby...without gyros.

[Mod Man]

Hmm, without gyros, without collective pitch, without decent engines, without decent radios, etc. etc. etc. :D

Matt

[rezenclowd3]

Haha, yes very very true....Im so glad I never had to! Have you checked out the new JR gyro with servo.. Ive heard that its amazing...though it seems like its meant for smaller applications. (only guessing by price)

[Mod Man]

Haven't seen it. But, it is about time more focus is put on gyros for smaller helis. :)

Matt