which of these two things will make my truck flip/roll over easier?

[blueb8llz]

im very curious to know this...when you reply, please state if your thinking or if its a fact so i know.
question is, option 1, if i raised all my shocks to the highest mount on both the top and bottom shock mounts and say it gave me one more inch of ground clearance. ( i have stock tires on at this time) or, option 2,
if i was to get tires that are one inch taller than stock tires and have the shocks mounted so that i have the exact same ground clearance as option one?
when i mean roll/flip, im talking bout just turning at high speeds, etc..
and while we're on the subject, which one would give me better handling??

my choice is option 1 would more likely make my truckk flip easier and option 1 would give me better handling.

just in case...this is for the new emaxx 3905.

[z-man280]

moving your shocks will cause you to roll over faster.

As you move your shocks toward the center of the chassis, they become more verticle. Your truck will become very "flexible", as it requires less effort to move the shock shaft. Less effort, easier for the shock to move thru its entire length of motion. With this, your truck will become "tippy" for lack of a better word. Laying your shocks down, or, furthest inboard posttion top, furthest out bottom, will lower your truck ( which you already know) but with the shock in the laid position, its much more linear in its movement, requiring more suspension movement to compress. Therefore, it slows down your action, making the truck MUCH more stable. If ground clearance is what you need, but stil lwant it to handle, move the shocks out, then re-gear, and run bigger tires.

[rccardude04]

The shocks will have a worse effect on the handling than the tires, but both of them will not exactly help it turn. Anything that raises your ride height will make the truck roll more easily in turns, and Z-Man hit it on the head.

However, with bigger tires, your servos will have trouble turning them, and the truck will almost have to be thrown into corners due to the huge amount of rotating mass, which can cause it flip over also if you have enough traction. Big tires NEVER help with handling unless what they're replacing is just too small to begin with (ex. 1/10 buggy tires on an E-Maxx).

In the case of the E-Maxx, you're pretty much at the limit on size out of the box. If you went with some standard size Maxx BowTies (Pro-Line) on normal size Maxx wheels, you'd probably get about as good of a tire combo as you'll find for all-around use. Most of the racers seem to use the narrower, smaller diameter tires; almost the size of what they use for 1/8 buggies for on the track. Lower rotating mass creates a lower gyroscopic effect and allows the car to make easier left-right transitions.

If you want it to handle well, I would try moving the shocks out at the bottom and in at the top like Z-Man said and see what you think. It won't make a HUGE difference, but you should be able to tell that something has been changed.
-Eric

[swannco]

clip the chevron treads on the emaxx tires at an angle on the outside edge and the truck will be much less prone to flip. they will wear out this exact same way with use anyway, especially on pavement.

[blueb8llz]

very well explained guys. it answered my question. but yea, more ground clearance was what i wanted so if i ever choose to, i will be getting the bigger tires and lowering my shocks instead. do you guys think i will need new servos or at least a new servo saver if i went with 40 series rims and big joes?

[7urb0_c471]

What is with you and this fear of roll-overs? The 3905 E-maxx is a very stable vehicle, more so than the already planted 3906. The best way to determine how a vehicle handles is to just go out and try how varying shock angles and ride heights affect your truck because, ultimately, only you know the conditions under which you run your vehicles and how you drive them. Those two factors will play significantly into how your truck handles and whether it will flip; the above are only general tendencies.

And with the wheels and tires, my god. Seriously, you are obviously either ocd or paranoid about spinning a hex, so you may as well just get the 23mm for less than $30 for all four, and never ever worry about it again. 17mm is fine as well, but hardcore bashing with brushless can strip them too. You don't need a new servo saver for new wheels and tires. Yes you will need to gear down. Yes, you will flip. No, I don't know for sure about offset. Yes, the beadlocks are expensive. No, I don't know whether Big Joes are better than Mashers in the mud. No, I don't know which one is taller. Yes, the Mashers are good and wear is good. Yes, raising ride height will cause you to roll more. Yes, flipping will be more evident.

God, just go out and drive it; that's what rc is about. This sounds exactly like the same fools who 'bench race' their full size cars on the dynos - all talk.

[blueb8llz]

hahaha thats the funniest ish i have heard all day. nah im not ocd but parronoid maybe. tell you the truth, i have only flipped my truck twice. so i dont flip it rarely ..but thats the thing..i dont want to. so yea im pretty lazy in not trying to just adjust the screws myself ..but why do that when i can ask the board cus im sure the people on hear have all the answers already.
not only that., i can save lots of money by asking on the forum first...instead of buying and trying. if its not neccesary why buy. so am i suppose to buy all the things im considering and just finally run the best combo and just use the rest as spare parts...heck no. thats what the forums are all about..getting knowledge. if its not me asking..im sure a guy out there will ask the same question one day. so you maybe irratated at me cus its all one dude asking but its gonna be asked regardless you like it or not cus my questions are never stupid.
but hay thanks for your help though..you have answered a lot of my threads

[hajile97]

now all that wasnt needed...GEESSSH!!!! lol The only thing stupid is a questioned not asked!!!

Try your truck out and listen to Eric and the others above and ignore the foolishness....You have every right to ask questions...It's how you learn.....Good luck

[7urb0_c471]

I acknowledge the value of asking questions, I mean that's the real reason these forums even exist - to ask questions and talk to further broaden our individual knowledge. I also know that we don't want to purchase one set of wheels and tires, learn that they are not good, then have to buy another set to be happy with our rc car. However, asking the same questions over and over in various threads becomes tiring. He knows darn well members' opinions on wheels and tires, hex sizes, and various manufacturer alternatives; he has even explicity said he chooses to ask questions which have probably been asked in older threads, but he chooses not to use the search function. Concerning the shock geometry, it is no different from a touring car; the annual Touring Cars edition of RCCA always covers this, and it is covered in numerous threads here as well.

So am I distraught that someone is trying to be informed about rc purchases and general rc? Of course not! I only know general things and particular tidbits about the cars I have, and I am more than happy to help others here. However, if someone doesn't feel like searching and just wants the easy answer, I mean come on.... there are only so many different ways to say the same thing. So I apologize for my attitude, but I would appreciate it (and I am certain others would as well) if you took a more active method to garnering information about your E-Maxx as opposed to a decidedly passive one. Either that or post pics!

[hajile97]

speak for yourself and ONLY yourself....there is no precondition to asking a question on this forum and YOUR attitude is what needs to be checked NOT the fact the he asked a question like he did and may or may not have done a search first....Is is it really that serious??!!!.

Everyone may not have the benefit of reading a magazine or some other resource and may need to come here to ask whatever questions they feel is needed FOR THEM...if you disagree then ignore the thread and move on.....
There would not be a need to apologize if you checked your attitude in the first place .....

EVERY forum I am on has millions of questions from people who do not search first GET OVER IT.....as much as I hear mods etc whine about it it doesnt change a thing....

[7urb0_c471]

Nothing quite like another kid on an rc forum artificially puffing their ego up by taking an authoritative stance and asserting their point of veiw when nobody cares. Maybe it's your immaturity, or maybe you're just a class-less tool, but if you didn't notice I attempted to make amends and encouraged blueb8llz to continue to search for help, albeit proactively. I also encouraged him to remain an active member here, which is truly what these boards need, not individuals such as yourself spewing uninformed and clearly inflammatory remarks about. To boot, you didn't even offer one element of help ("I'll just police this thread right here!"), whereas I offered my opinion, directed him to other sources, and encouraged active involvement to test different setups. So, you don't like me? I have been here significantly longer than you have (guess how) and have helped more than you have. So go ahead, criticize me, see if I care. You spending your time doing so only proves how foolish your behavior and attitude truly are. I'm off to help elsewhere.

[hajile97]

now you have certainly removed all doubt of your immaturity.. I am no kid btw and how long you have been here matters only to you......and policing the thread was your first move kid.....

the annonymity of the internet saves another know it all bipolar kid again.......cheers

[davec-nitro-rs4]

I tried to re-read the original question and see what came to mind.

Wants higher ground clearance and better stability through hi-speed tuens.

Generally the two don't come easily with one change. He doesn't say "racing" so can we presume this is a fun-runner, and not a racer...perhaps.

So, what is a possible solution? Without lower center of gravity, high speed cornering is tough, sorry, but you might want to just consider changing ride height when you want more clearance, and lower it when you want hi speed stability, but ALL monster trucks have a cornering-COG limits.

Definately not an easy proble/question to answer, and definately not a question that deserves the flaming arrows it has gotten here. Ask your questions! I find that questions that don't deserves answers go unanswered. Those who would rather shoot flaming arrows, maybe they should think about saving their keystrokes and simply remain silent?

Say something constructive, or say nothing. A good rule to follow, I feel.

[BLUETHUNDERPEDE]

Agreed, so find out where the other guy lives and then go at it not on an rc forum.

40s are great to play with moabs are a great tire with velosity spoked rims or bead locks if you want ( they are heavier and may not flip as easy ) .

[7urb0_c471]

I just want to speak my mind once more and I will drop it, regardless of whatever is poster thereafter. I will follow it up with something concerning the OP's topic.

I find it somewhat frustrating that some people don't bother searching and skip immediately to beginning numerous threads concerning, effectively, a single topic. Was my op out of line? Yes, it was. But I still infused it with some help. Then hajile jumps on the opportunity to criticize me and belabor my op, then I defend it and effectively apologize and he yells at me. Then others jump at me?

Explicitly: my pov is that I would appreciate active searching, but also want others to ask questions. I enjoy helping others and like searching for info for others. I don't want negative feelings between myself and other members here, so I apologize to everyone else, but also to blueb8llz for my inappropriate op. If you have any other questions, you know my aim, and I'm always on so ask away.

So that's that.


Okay, so if you were to go with the 40-series, you'll have a higher outside diameter (OD) for the tires but also a higher OD for the rim. This will effectively raise your truck up a bit over stock, but you will also benefit from a lower-profile tread, which will result in less tread movement in cornering. This is important because a large-profile sidewall will give rise to rolling of the tread, and subsequently roll of the truck. With 23mm conversion and 40-series Big Joes (which are pretty stiff treads in comparison to Moabs) roll of tread will be fairly low, but you will want to lower the truck a bit by removing shock preload spacers or perhaps knocking the ride height setting down a notch.

If you go with 17mm hubs and truggy wheels and tires, you will benefit from race rubber built for truggies, still very strong hubs (not quite as beefy as 23mm), but a smaller OD for tires and wheels. I think the truggy rubber will tend to roll less and keep you planted better than 40-series will (aside from road rages on asphalt), but you will lose the ground clearance for serious bashing. Another consideration is weight, and my 40-series mashers on beadlocks are 2 pounds each, and truggy dishes and pins will be significantly lighter, so you will achieve better acceleration and handling (transitional as well as bump handling). Imo, wheels and tires constitute a huge percentage of setup success or failure, so deciding exactly what you want to do with your E-Maxx is important.

Together, I believe you can successfully run 40-series and 23mm (or without 23mm, 40-series can use stock hubs) without any real rolling issues as long as you lower it slightly. They will afford you better ground clearance and rough-environment traction over the 17mm setup, but the 17mm path will attain much better handling on more prepared surfaces and in general.

I hope this was helpful and alleviated at least some stress between myself and a couple other members. if anyone ever has any questions, I'll be more proactive in helping going forward.

[blueb8llz]

dont worry bout it, apology accepted. oh and thanks to the people that spoke their mind, i really didnt want to stir up a mess though. but yea, i came to the conclusion that bigger tires and lowering the shocks will give me the better handling opposed to just raising the shocks with stock tires. although i may lose the intial torque in the beginning..its nothing dropping to a 16t pinion cant change.
again thanks for your tips guys

[rccardude04]

Changing the gearing will help, but the tires still have a higher moment of inertia (rotating mass) than the stock tires. It will be slower regardless of what you gear it. You will either lose top end or acceleration, or both.
-Eric

[Gereke]

After I lowered the ride height on my Savage, and put on some 40 series pin-type tires (Pro-Line Crime Fighters)- Handling improved significantly. I am quite pleased with the set up, can crank the wheel at full clip without worry of a turn over. I don't do any heavy bashing so the loss of ground clearance isn't an issue.

As far as search functions on forums.. They are not always as helpful as some allude to. I've used search functions plenty of times, and results are not always what you are looking for. So sometimes It's just quicker to flat out ask the question, and get answers direct.