Losi Speed 8 vs Traxxas Rustler VXL vs HPI E-Firestorm

[whiteman]

I'm looking into of getting a 1/10 truck with brushless RTR, and I noticed there are 3 out there: Losi Speed 8 vs Traxxas Rustler VXL vs HPI E-Firestorm. Which one is the best one for the money?

Thanks

[GSMnow]

What are you going to use it for? If you want to race, it is a tough call between the HPI and Losi in my book. I really like Losi and I can buy the parts locally, but I have heard that the Speed T does not have a diff, it uses a spool. I have not been able to prove that, so I am not certain. The Traxxas is fast, but needs more upgrades to race. The HPI comes with a Castle SideWinder which is a great fully programmable ESC. I just don't have a good source for the parts, I would have to order anything besides the basics, at least they do stock some basic parts around here. I can get Traxxas parts as well, but it is more of a basher truck. It is solid built and great from beating around the yard, and certainly fast, but they just don't have the handling of the more race bred chassis like the Losi or HPI. If I didn't already have a Losi XXX-T I would probably opt for the HPI due to the known power system. The Losi Exelorin system does look good on paper, but I have never seen one run. I have a Mamba Max in my XXX-T an d that is just a big brither to the SideWinder in the HPI. The Traxxas Velineon system is also a power house that has the advantage of also running full sensored mode so it might be better to run in the Super Stock class that is mandating a sensored 13.5 turn motor for next year. ROAR is eliminating 19 turn and making super stock brushless only. That is a big step for them, and I am happy to see it happen.

[whiteman]

GSNOW - thanks for your input. I'm not into racing anymore. I'm looking to race around the parking lot, and some dirt driving. I'm into speed now days. Since all 3 are almost the same price range, and of course, I cannot buy all 3 to compare.

[Tamiya4ever]

If this helps. The Losi looks like its more for street and parking lot racing right out of the box. It has street tires, its low, and no diff. The HPI and Traxxas has a more offroading setup out of the box. The new issue of RCCA has a review on the Speed T

[whiteman]

Speed 8 has spool? No worries about the diff? So far, I really like the LOSI

[chilledoutuk]

losi speed t
===========
It all boils down to what you want really from what i can tell as a xxxt owner the losi speed t is just a xxxt with a spool and a wheelie bar and maybe more mailable plastic for the chassis to make it less prone to breakage. And then they have strapped a brushless system into it.

from what i can tell from the exploded view of the losi speed the diff assembly uses instead of balls 2 rings that have tabs that go into the diff gear where the balls would normally go. This means you could set your diff to be a sort of limited slip differential but that would probably melt the diff after a while and thus i assume that locking the diff tight is the only option.

To me though these seems a really half assed way of making a spool but i suupose that by setting it so that each side can slip slightly independently your less liklely to chew up diff cups on grippy surfaces.

I will add that my experiance with the losi xxxt transmission is that its a lot more fragile than you would expect once you through 3s lipo at it with a plettenberg extreme.

The inclusion of a DSM radio is however very cool
Ultimately its clear this is a response from losi to the sucessful traxxas products but ultimately this is not a versative as the vxl as it seems to be made for speed runs on disused airports without thought about people wanting to use it offroad (you know losi where trucks should be).


HPI E-firestorm flux
===============

With the e-firestorm flux seems from my point of view to be the ideal bashing setup it has a fussion of tuffness and cutting edge technology and seems to be a fresh design and the transmission alone makes it worth its while.

Add the fact that your getting a sidewinder system which has really nice control and the possibility to use it with the castle link to program and Taylor the controllers many settings as much as you like.

It seems simple to me that if your bashing the toughness of the new e-firestorm chassis and transmission makes it a much more attractive bashing vehicle.

[Mini-TBasher55]

The Speed-T is good for one thing-drag racing, and its amazing at that. RCCA raved about the traction and everything including the insane speed. The problem is that the wheely bar is not adjustable and you can't really take it off (it's attached to the motor guard with knobs that come out, which will always be there) and its designed for on road only. But then again, it has a 2.4ghz radio, which is a huge plus.

The Rustler and Firestorm are all around great trucks. Fast, durable, offroad, etc. You won't be taking the Speed-T off of ramps at full throttle while the Firestorm and Rustler are fun everywhere.

For me, its a lot of fun to see a brushless stadium truck run...its cool to be able to go through rough terrain easily and then speed down the street at 45mph right away. With the Speed-T, you're limited to the road for the most part. Unless you race dirt oval with no jumps, just hard packed dirt, the Speed-T won't be going anywhere offroad. It's not a bad thing if you don't have that desire, but personally for me its the main turnoff.

[rccardude04]

The rustler needs an updated diff. The Speed-T's transmission is weak and has no diff. The HPI has a viscous diff and steel gears. Drivetrain: HPI

Rustler has the VXL, Speed-T has the Losi whatever the heck it is, and the HPI has basically a Castle Creations Sidewinder with a better motor. HPI wins this also.

The only category I'd say the HPI loses with would be potential parts support. HPI isn't really a well-known company for 2wd electric trucks, so a lot of shops may not carry parts. They should be able to get them easy enough but they might not be on the shelf like they would be with the Rustler or Speed-T. If I was buying one, I'd go for the Firestorm for the power system and drivetrain alone. A locked diff really isn't much fun, and especially when there are no metal gears available. Losi is just in it to make a buck, not put out an original product that will work well.
-Eric

[ElectricThunder]

I vote Firestorm, even though I have a brushless Rustler with an all steel transmission (not VXL parts though) and find it to be a blast.

On paper, and in photos, it simply looks VERY durable. The tranmission is sealed, all metal gears, gear differential instead of a weird locked diff that can transform into a ball diff with a few parts, and it has a castle creations sidewinder setup.

The only thing I don't like about the firestorm is no 2.4Ghz radio, which the losi has. However, that'd drive the price up like mad for HPI, so for what you get, I think it's a good deal.

The VXL is my second choice, though Traxxas' ESC is too proprietary what with the stupid TRX plugs and the severe lack of programmability. Then again, the VXL is substantially cheaper than the firestorm, so if you're on more of a budget, the VXL is probably a better idea.

The two trucks above, I have no doubt, would be freakishly durable.

The last, the Speed-T, just doesn't seem like a great, versatile design. Like someone else said, it has a spool, so don't go planning on actually trying to turn with the vehicle. Handling is going to suck, so you'll basically be spending around 300 bucks for a straight line runner, and if you want something that can actually turn, you'll have to spend another 15 or 20 for diff balls and rings and stuff. Once you turn the spool into a ball diff though, don't expect it to last a very long time with brushless under the hood! The losi's plus is its radio. 2.4Ghz is nice in that there's no glitching, but I'd say that's where the pluses end for the Losi. The brushless setup doesn't look all that great, and since it looks to be based on the XXX-T, it probably won't be near as durable as a Rustler or Firestorm. The two latter trucks simply have more plastic in the right areas, while the Speed-T is designed off of a full fledged race truck design.

That's my opinion.

[GSMnow]

I have to agree that the HPI E-Firestorm is probably the most versitile out of the box, but you really can't bash the durability of the Losi that much. I have a XXX-T MF2 edition and it is a virtual brick. I have been running a Mamba Max 5700 in it for a year and with the diff and slipper set right I have never had to replace a single gear. The MF2 trans is slightly different than the standard XXX-T but the diff and other internal gear are essentially the same. And I only broke the gear case from a severe crash (still running the same gears). The normal gear case is actually much stronger than the MF2 version. I broke one front suspension arm, in a head on collisions with a Revo at 30 mph. I have broken a camber link and a ball stud, but the hits it has taken without a failure are amazing. My MF2 has mostly graphite parts which are stiffer, but a little more brittle than a true basher would like. I am pretty sure the Speed T uses a little softer plastic to flex a little and absorb impact without cracking. The Losi ball diff is one of the best in the world. Mine never slips and it is as smooth as glass. If it is set too loose, it will slip and melt the diff gear, so keep it tight. The slipper works okay, but I actually switched to an Associated T4 spur gear and pads, it is a little more consistent when the temperature changes. The Losi one would go from too much slip cold to locked up when it gets hot in a race. The Associated part does change a little, but no where near as much, and with a powerful brushless system, you must have a working slipper to make it live. The all metal gear trans may sound good on paper, but I don't think that means it is better. Metal to metal gear mesh can wear pretty quick unless the gears are proper different materials such as steel / bronze. I hate aluminum gears, they wear very fast unless they have a hard anodize on them like the top gear in the Losi trans. And even there, it only works due to the Kevlar second gear which them meshes to the nylon diff gear. My gears all have a full year of Mamba Max abuse and they still look virtually new and run quiet.

[ElectricThunder]

I still don't like the Speed-T.:)

I agree about aluminum gears. They do suck. The aluminum idler everyone, including myself, used to get for the Rustler before the VXL tranny parts would wear out pretty fast and get super sharp from the steel top gear. Now everything in the transmission is steel for me, and not wearing out constantly like the aluminum dealy.

I would also like to clarify that when I say the ball diff isn't going to last long, on 3s to get the advertised speed, that's a lot of power. That diff isn't going to last near as long as a gear diff. My T3 would wear out much quicker with just an SS5800 than a 12x2 P-94.

But anyways, to each their own.:)

[rccardude04]

GSM: There's a difference between someone racing with proper gearing, and a street truck that goes 60 miles an hour that's driven by a basher. Anything will last forever on a race track as far as a transmission goes. They always seem to fall apart in the backyard though. Especially with that much power. We've sold several idler gears and diff gears, even though there's only like 2 of those trucks running around locally so far. They just don't stay together.
-Eric

[chilledoutuk]

the older style losi transmission case might be more durable but it does flex and i have striped out a gearbox when i wheelie'd hard while accelerating an feigao 540 8s i still believe that the rigid wheelie bar caused the gearcase to flex and gears to strip from insuffcient gear mesh.

I have a more flexble wheelie bar now and have not had a gearbox problem since.
I will however make it clear to all that the losi ball diff is crap when driving in high traction situations with a high torque brushless system.

As gsm has pointed out the losi slipper is naff and as such you have to run it very tight which then puts a lot more strain on the diff which i have to run so tight i wonder if you would get more diff action with a spool.

An interesting question is what metal are the gears in the hpi firestorm made off hopefully its some sort of steel.

What metal does hpi normally use for there gears in there other vehicles as its likely they would continue to use this metal.

[GTX]

T4 with a nice Novak or Mamba system :D

[GSMnow]

If you have a ball diff, ANY ball diff, here is my test to see if you are too tight.

Setup your car/truck so it is ready to drive, batteries in etc. Now just lift the front tires off the ground by the bumper and move it side to side. Watch the rear tires. If they turn in opposite directions and roll on the ground, then the diff is not too tight. With my truck and the well used diff, it works just fine doing this without the battery out of it on painted plywood. If the tires skid then you are too tight, or the diff rings and/or balls are beat up. Flat spotted balls and grooved diff rings are the most common cause. Next up is the thrust bearing being shot and binding. As long as rolling on the ground is able to turn the tires in opposite directions, the diff will not hurt cornering. A tighter diff may have some limited slip ability and even help pull you if one rear tires goes airborn.

If the slipper does lock up (Like the stock Losi one does do) and the tires jam on something, the diff slipping for an instant could save you a ton of money. A Gear diff will never slip, until the gear go away, so there is no safetly valve if the slipper is too tight. Having that second safety valve is not always a bad thing.

[0RESET0]

I am having trouble finding one of the firestorms. Where are they available for purchase?

[viper7016]

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXTDU6&P=ML

>.>

[chilledoutuk]

yeah but this is the one you want unless you dont need the brushless system.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUHD1**&P=ML

[0RESET0]

I googled "firestorm brushless" and found a couple places that are selling it for $299

[chilledoutuk]

yeah in my opinion that's a really good deal for a new design and a castle creations based brushless system.

[maddog2099]

Do a search for tower hobbies coupon.

You will find a coupon for 25 or 30 off of a 300 dollar purchase.

[chilledoutuk]

lets get one thing straight though the t4 is a nice truck but the stock arms are too weak and you need to get the rpm arms to be able to take any hits without looking arms.

The arms on my losi xxxt seem to be very tough and have yet to break one but the losi xxxt does have a weekness and that is the chassis is known to break when being hit from unusal angles.

For example i was bashing in my garden and the car backflipped whilst accelerating and i hit a slight hill the car then landed on the rear shock tower backwards which caused a crack in the chassis where the shock tower joins the chassis. It was a freakish incident how the shock tower took the impact but however it must have only been going about 10mph.

I somewhat doubt either the e-firestorm or rustler vxl chassis would crack under similar conditions which is why i recomend them for bashing over xxxt based trucks as the chassis too weak for my liking.

[scoob]

I really like the Firestorm too. I have two VXLs and it's a great truck but the Firestorm just looks a little better built to me. If the price diiference isn't too much that is what I would go for I think. The sidewinder is supposed to be a good little ESC and the 5700 motor is proven, although I like the VXL motor better than any of the mambas(I have both). I don't know about toughness but my Rustlers haven't been as bullet proof as people make them out to be. Particularly the arms and bearing carriers which I replaced with RPM parts.

As for the Losi, I think it would be great for a purpose built drag truck, but not very versatile without some mods. 2.4g radio out of the box is amazing though.

[viper7016]

I was looking at the Towerhobbies description for the Flux and it makes it seem that you can use a 3s lipo with that 5700 motor and according to CC you cannot. So anyone looking at that don't think you can, 2s is the limit with that ESC unless your using the 4600 motor... :eek:

[GSMnow]

viper7016
The motor in the Flux10 is a 5700 KV but it is NOT a Castle CM36 5700 motor. If you look at the pics you will see the can is different. It actually look just like the Traxxas Vellineon motor. I don't have all the facts, but I would bet it has a higher internal resistance which will greatly lower the current that it sucks from the ESC for a given voltage and torque loading. It is rated for 3S with the supplied 5700 KV motor. The Castle CM36 5700 is also rated for 3S when used on the Mamba Max ESC so the rpm is okay. The problem is that with typical loading at 3S the current could exceed the 70 amp rating on the SideWinder ESC. With lighter gauge windings, the motor will just heat up before you can kill the ESC.

[PatrickdelC]

viper7016
The motor in the Flux10 is a 5700 KV but it is NOT a Castle CM36 5700 motor. If you look at the pics you will see the can is different. It actually look just like the Traxxas Vellineon motor. I don't have all the facts, but I would bet it has a higher internal resistance which will greatly lower the current that it sucks from the ESC for a given voltage and torque loading. It is rated for 3S with the supplied 5700 KV motor. The Castle CM36 5700 is also rated for 3S when used on the Mamba Max ESC so the rpm is okay. The problem is that with typical loading at 3S the current could exceed the 70 amp rating on the SideWinder ESC. With lighter gauge windings, the motor will just heat up before you can kill the ESC.


GSM, yes it looks different, but it is a Castle motor internally. It is made in our facility in China, and has the same Japanese bearings, thin laminations, and high performance magnets.

Patrick

[GSMnow]

So, that does bring up the question asked earlier. Is it okay to run 3S LiPo in the Flux 10? with the stock 5700 motor and Sidewinder ESC? I saw several adds listing 3S, but after I wrote that post, I saw that HPI did change there site to only list 2S.

So I guess it would be the same as the regular Sidewinder 5700. 2S current limited by the ESC. Can run 3S if the motor is changed to a 4600.Is that correct? I am thinking about this truck for my son to start racing. I almost wish they shipped it with the 4600 instead of the 5700.

[chilledoutuk]

I would guess if you dropped the pinion by about 4-5 teeth you could run the 5700 on 3s lipo without putting too much strain on the sidewinder controller.

[kufman]

So, that does bring up the question asked earlier. Is it okay to run 3S LiPo in the Flux 10? with the stock 5700 motor and Sidewinder ESC? I saw several adds listing 3S, but after I wrote that post, I saw that HPI did change there site to only list 2S.

So I guess it would be the same as the regular Sidewinder 5700. 2S current limited by the ESC. Can run 3S if the motor is changed to a 4600.Is that correct? I am thinking about this truck for my son to start racing. I almost wish they shipped it with the 4600 instead of the 5700.

My personal feeling is that the 3S will be pushing the limits of the ESC with the 5700 motor. The 5700 on 3S is the most powerful Mamba setup so I would guess it is the most strain on the controller as well.

[tireshredder]

I think that is motor rpm limited on MM