orion vortex 3.5 suCKS o_O

[serpent17]

I've bought the orion vortex 3.5 and hooked it up to my mamba max esc and it coggs like mother and it sounds like a vacuum cleaner. i didn't like the magnet drag like brush motors. i was better off getting a low turn mad brush motor.

it states that it could run with senser also SENSERLESS esc. but I'm geussing its good only for senser esc's! so I'm stuck in the whole with a good looking piece of aluminum the shape of a motor.

i used good strong cells ove used weak cells. i soldor'd the motor leads straight in the motor tabs I've used deans plugs ever since day one when i have them. and its not a good choice.


i also re-timed the esc buyt didn't time the motor and striped out the alen screws in the rear of the motor so now i can't time it.

[ElectricThunder]

What firmware do you have on your mamba max? The timing on the back of the motor is only when it's running in sensored mode (advances or retards the hall effect sensors, which are not operational when running it with a sensorless ESC).

[rccardude04]

The new firmware 1.17 makes a HUGE difference.
I've not heard of these issues you're having.
What's your vehicle/gearing?
BTW, it's sensorless. With an O not an E.
-Eric

[serpent17]

i got the motor the day the update could be made to 1.17.

i had it in diffrent cars just to check if gears was the problem it was in a tamiya ta03rs and a tamiya m03r.



ohh the advances or retarde timing works only for sonsered esc's? thanks for booting my theory of success to the moon! jk

any proven good brushless motors for the mamba max esc?

[serpent17]

i got the motor the day the update could be made to 1.17.

i had it in diffrent cars just to check if gears was the problem it was in a tamiya ta03rs witch is i think 37t spur and 26t pinion and a tamiya m03r is 20t pinion and 37t spur i think.



ohh the advances or retarde timing works only for sonsered esc's? thanks for booting my theory of success to the moon! jk

any proven good brushless motors for the mamba max esc?

[ElectricThunder]

So you are running 1.17 firmware then? And yes, the advance or retard in timing on the motor itself is only good for sensored use. You can alter timing via Castle Link for sensorless operation though, and it will have an effect on the motor.

Go back and check all of your solder joints. Sometimes a bad solder joint can lead to terrible cogging. Can you even get the vehicle up to speed, or does it just sit on the ground and stutter a lot?

I just noticed your gearing, and that's RIDICULOUSLY tall gearing for even a touring car I would think. What is the final drive ratio for either car? It is entirely possible to overgear.

Just because brushless motors make a lot of power, doesn't mean they can't be over geared. Overgearing a low turn motor like the 3.5 will draw TONS of current and since I doubt the batteries you're using can supply the necessary current for cog free operation, cogging is probably a direct result.

Any other information would be helpful too, like battery type/brand/capacity and the aforementioned final drive ratio for either car when you run that motor in them.

Pictures of the solder joint wouldn't hurt either.

And finally....does anything heat up very quickly in a very small amount of time?

[serpent17]

yuzzurr its updated and everything. there's a setting on castle link for sonsor or none sensor motors???!!!?

well it was soldered really well everyone comes to me for there cells to be solder!!

also while the motor spools up it coggs very bad when its still and you punch it it coggs if your coasting into a corner then hit the gas it " hesitates " by cogging!!!

most my cars are 10 to 13 yrs old and that's the only gearing it takes because its fixed gearing. not many options.

i did put it in my tc3 and it had a RRP 20t pinion with a 69t spur and the samething happens. i think I'm going to take the $94 loss =[


the motor did get hot but the esc was warm. i do run heatsinks with fans on them.

i don't have pictures because I'm using my esc for another project

what brushless system do you use?

[ElectricThunder]

No, there's no setting on castle link for sensored or non-sensored. There is a setting for timing though.

Anyways, sounds odd. Maybe you did get a dud or something. Send it back at the very least and try to get your money back maybe? Or, if you could try a very small pinion in like, the TC3 just to double check and make sure it's not overgeared (since it's a 3.5 turn motor, it should probably be running around an 11:1 final drive ratio in a touring car!). If you have another, test it with the ESC just to be sure that it's a motor issue and not an ESC issue.

As for my setup, I have a few vehicles, but one of them runs a Mamba Max ESC with a Medusa 4800 kv 4 pole motor. I run a roughly 8.5:1 final drive ratio on my Rustler with street tires, and about 11:1 with mashers on it. SUPER efficient motor too. All run on 2s lipo.

My TT-01 uses a mild setup; 8.5 turn Novak with sintered rotor and an XBR ESC, also on 2s lipo.

My Vendetta ST uses a Quark 33 amp ESC and a 430L align outrunner motor.

Finally, my Trinity NOW uses a mamba 25 ESC, and has no motor because the rotor blew apart on the stock feigao unit.

I've also run a Castle 5700 motor (came with my Mamba max as a package when I first bought it), a feigao 540 8s, and a Novak HV4400; all on the Rustler.

[serpent17]

medusa? witch one is that?!!!

ill buy anything that will work I'm lame like that. i just need that one motor that will work.

i also bought the mamba max package 5700vk and the motor to slow down very bad. i check the setting and got oil for the bearings and nothing. didn't even bother to send it back because of castles repair lagg.

ohh also i boult two race packs matched and peaked. gp3300 seem to do it for me. I've had some ib4200 but i always seem to get new broken stuff.

I'm very interested on that medusa motor. its good? any cogging ever?

[ElectricThunder]

It's actually a plane motor. It's similar in design to Neu motors, which are 200+ dollar motors. Mine was about 118 shipped. It's a great motor, and has A LOT of torque due to the design and 4 poles instead of your typical 2 poles.

I don't get any cogging. 4 pole motors tend to be quite smooth too on throttle feel. It's a great setup, but will require a very large pinion for a touring car or any other onroad stuff.

Check 'em out though:

www.medusaproducts.com

Look at the "afterburner V2" motors; the 36mm diameter ones.

[serpent17]

dude!! that motor "looks" tiight!!! but would that hook up with my mamba max esc with the cells i have? how are the bearings!! are they big?

how long have you ran it in one day and how long have you had it for. is it worth the money???

[ElectricThunder]

I've had it for about a month and a half I would say. And YES, it is well worth the money. In 90+ degree heat here in Florida, the motor is barely over 135F after pulling tons of wheelies and donuts and speed passes. Basically I tried to overheat the motor, and it wouldn't get above 135F in the middle of the day geared 27/87 in a Rustler (about 8.5:1-8.7:1), which is not light by any means (probably close to 4.5 lbs maybe).

Yes it works with a mamba max (I use mine with my mamba max), and the bearings are good sized. They're holding up just fine in a car so far. I run the truck every other day usually, and right now I'm running mashers with some pretty tall gearing, so the motor is certainly getting put through its paces.

If you run the IB4200s (which I've had those cells before, and I understand they go bad fast and just don't take abuse well), you can probably run the motor with taller gearing just fine, but to give credit to my GP3300s, I ran an SPT GP 3300 pack that I assembled (solderless power tube, basically the cells have silver paste on either end and are connected via compression through two large bolts; GREAT pack). The truck definitely felt kind of soft on torque, but it was still haulin' butt down the street geared 27/87. It also could wheely under certain conditions still. Not bad for 2-3 year old GP 3300 cells that had been sitting for a few months.

This is a very current hungry motor though, and as a result, it does end up producing a lot of power. However, it's pretty tough on batteries. My 2s 4500mah 20C lipos come out of the truck at around 120F after a full 10-15 minute run of wheelies and speed passes with that 27/87 gearing (yeah, it wheelies at a roughly 8.7:1 FDR with steet tires....:D).

For a touring car, it'd be a great motor if you have a big enough pinion and good enough batteries. 4 pole motors tend to "need" higher gearing to run at optimal temperatures (they tend to run cooler at abnormally high gearing compared to most other regular 2 pole motors).

My only complaint for the Medusa V2 motor is that the motor wires are actually part of the windings. As a result, they're a little brittle and if you bend them, you must be SUPER careful (I don't reccommend bending them at all though; I had to so that the wires would go the right way and not tug at all on the leads, but you're really not supposed to bend them sorta kinda). Typically you just solder bullet connectors to those types of leads, but I actually needed the length of some extra wire, so I had to do a bit of a "creative" wiring job. Works fine though; no cold solder joints or any bad connections at all. If you run the motor in something where the ESC is very close to the motor, then no problems, but stadium trucks tend to have longer motor wires than touring cars or 4wd buggies and the like.

[porra]

I ran the Mamba Max/Trinity N80/2S 5000mAh lipos combo in my TC3 with 20+T pinion and 69T spur before the new firmware came out and it did ok. The usual cogging from start up seems to be from the motor and it was barely noticeable. Send it back to Castle so they can have a look at it. Almost forgot, I also used the Mamba Max in my TC3 Truggy that has a Novak HV4.5 and it ran good as well.

[GSMnow]

The 3.5 turn motors are something like 10,500 KV. At 7 volts, that is over 70,000 rpm. Using 6Cell NiMh you only have about 350 watts available from the battery pack. That is only enough opwer for about 40 mph in a low drag 1/10 scale car. You are battery limited. Gearing it to go any faster is going to cause your battery voltage to drop and this leads to cogging and possibly radio issues if the voltage goes low enough for the BEC to drop out. Setting the LVC on the mamba max to 5.0 volts will keep the radio operating better, and just reduce the torque when you try to accelerate, but it may actually make it driveable. If you can't gear it slow enough, you have the wrong motor for the car. You said the MM5700 was too slow?? or did it get slower?? I didn't quite understand what you meant. I run a MM5700 in my XXX-4 (it was in my XXX-T and was TOO FAST) and it makes gobs of power at any speed. I run 2S LiPo now, and I top out a bit over 40 mph and it can tear the tires from a stop to top speed. If you are not getting enough power out of a 5700, then something is seriously wrong. With 6 cell NiMh, you are power limited to the battery, and any hot motor is only going to make about 350 watts on some of the best NiMh cells. This seriously limits the torque a low turn high KV motor can make, so you just end up cogging because it can't make enough torque to turn fast enough to operate in back EMF timing mode. On the 3.5 motor, you would need a pinion about 1/2 the teeth compared to the 5700 motor. And since you said you were ratio limited, you can't use the 3.5 in that car.

Even with the software update, the Mamba Max still will never run the ROAR legal sensored motors as well as a sensored ESC does. The design of the stator system does not generate as good of a back EMF signal for the ESC to detect and time off of. This makes them have to turn more rpm before they go "closed loop" with proper motor timing, so you really need to gear them to rev up. The sensored ESC's are told by the hall sensors which winding to power up, no matter how slow the motor is turning, and this allows them to function, even with pretty weak batteries. It will just go to the battery current limit and wait for the motor to turn to the next pole. When it does, the hall sensor tells the ESC and it switches to the next coil. So if you must run over geared low turn motors, get a sensored ESC.

[ElectricThunder]

^^What he said.^^

[serpent17]

yo!!!!! yes yes yes !! that's what i thought it was POWER!! i don't have enough power comin out my gp3300 they run very proper with brush mods stock and that's it.

the story on my mamba max is that i bought it mid 07, and it was a freakin BLAST!!!!! it made a car from 1994 a very sweet fast ride!! BUT then after a week or so it slowed down very noticable and so much i was like (what the hell?) i got my ib4200 and it was still slow so i assumed its a lame company. BUT the esc goes threw everything i throw at it from stock running all day to hot low turn mod's still with nice run time.

i did some research and found the vortex and was blown away by (what they say about it on the web site) so i got fooled and orderd it . and YES my cells are to weak for this motor.

my friend has a novak 3.5 with weak cells and insane gearing blows nitro trucks and nitro cars out the water.

and that novak censored as we all know. so i think I'm going to go with novak. (MAYBE)




The 3.5 turn motors are something like 10,500 KV. At 7 volts, that is over 70,000 rpm. Using 6Cell NiMh you only have about 350 watts available from the battery pack. That is only enough opwer for about 40 mph in a low drag 1/10 scale car. You are battery limited. Gearing it to go any faster is going to cause your battery voltage to drop and this leads to cogging and possibly radio issues if the voltage goes low enough for the BEC to drop out. Setting the LVC on the mamba max to 5.0 volts will keep the radio operating better, and just reduce the torque when you try to accelerate, but it may actually make it driveable. If you can't gear it slow enough, you have the wrong motor for the car. You said the MM5700 was too slow?? or did it get slower?? I didn't quite understand what you meant. I run a MM5700 in my XXX-4 (it was in my XXX-T and was TOO FAST) and it makes gobs of power at any speed. I run 2S LiPo now, and I top out a bit over 40 mph and it can tear the tires from a stop to top speed. If you are not getting enough power out of a 5700, then something is seriously wrong. With 6 cell NiMh, you are power limited to the battery, and any hot motor is only going to make about 350 watts on some of the best NiMh cells. This seriously limits the torque a low turn high KV motor can make, so you just end up cogging because it can't make enough torque to turn fast enough to operate in back EMF timing mode. On the 3.5 motor, you would need a pinion about 1/2 the teeth compared to the 5700 motor. And since you said you were ratio limited, you can't use the 3.5 in that car.

Even with the software update, the Mamba Max still will never run the ROAR legal sensored motors as well as a sensored ESC does. The design of the stator system does not generate as good of a back EMF signal for the ESC to detect and time off of. This makes them have to turn more rpm before they go "closed loop" with proper motor timing, so you really need to gear them to rev up. The sensored ESC's are told by the hall sensors which winding to power up, no matter how slow the motor is turning, and this allows them to function, even with pretty weak batteries. It will just go to the battery current limit and wait for the motor to turn to the next pole. When it does, the hall sensor tells the ESC and it switches to the next coil. So if you must run over geared low turn motors, get a sensored ESC.

[GSMnow]

I will bet the connections from the ESC to the motor on your MM 5700 went bad. From your dates, you got the crappy banana connectors. Use better connectors or direct solder. Set the LVC to 5.0 volts and have a blast again.

[serpent17]

yes what GSMnow said is very true and me n you agree!! but does that go the same with the medusa? you say that the medusa motor will be good on 6 cell right?

or does what GSMnow say apply for that medusa motor also? i think i need new cells. I'M NOT GOING WITH LIPO but some good 6 cells


^^What he said.^^

[ElectricThunder]

You need far better cells to run the Medusa (and even the lower turn sensored motors). GSM is right; your NiMH are limiting you in a big way. Running the medusa on NiMH 6 cell packs is going to only allow about half of the motor's potential. You need some really good high capacity NiMH cells like EP4200 or 4600s, or you will have to step up to Lipo if you want to realize the true potential of a lot of these brushless motors.

You also need to rethink motor choice for your vehicles at hand, as he said.

Long story short, I do not reccommend the Medusa for NiMH cells. They just can't suppply the juice necessary to allow the motor to reach full potential. Even my current 2s 4500 20C pack is having issues at such high gearing. I ran GP3300s on it, and they were NOT happy after about 7 minutes. The pack was already at 125F or so.

You WILL kill your cells with the Medusa if you gear it on the agressive side to make up for the lack of RPM (which you will have to do if you want it to run optimally and relatively fast).

[serpent17]

yes what GSMnow said is very true and me n you agree!! but does that go the same with the medusa? you say that the medusa motor will be good on 6 cell right?

or does what GSMnow say apply for that medusa motor also? i think i need new cells. I'M NOT GOING WITH LIPO but some good 6 cells


^^What he said.^^

[GSMnow]

You will not get all the performance the motor can supply, but by setting the LVC to 5.0 volts, you will have no problem driving it with even crap batteries. The Mamba Max LVC system works great. The ESC will start pulling current based on your trigger position, but if you pull too fast and the battery can't feed the juice, the voltage will start to drop. When it gets down to 5.0, it will reduce the current to the motor so the voltage stays above 5.0 (or wherever you set it). The result is a bit less acceleration when you run weak batteries, and great acceleration when you put in a good pack. I ran my car like this for many races. And with worn old IB4200's, I ended up with about 2 sluggish laps with poor acceleration, but then the pack would warm up and it would pull pretty good for the rest of the race, and I got 12 minutes or more of run time. Make sure you have really good connections everywhere, and try the LVC, you may be very happy with the result.

Even the MM4600 motor can suck over 500 watts if your battery is up to it. Even a good 6 cell pack though is going to be hard pressed to provide 50 amps at 7 volts, or just 350 watts. You will never get the full performance of a Mamba Max ESC out of 6 NiMh cells. And if you do manage to get to 70 amps, the voltage is probably down to 5, which is still 350 watts. My old IB4200's are now down to under 200 watts. At just a 10 amp load, they are falling to 6 volts when cold (60 watts OUCH!) When hot they put out 30 amps at 6 volts (180 watts). My tiny 3000 mAh LiPo's hold 7 volts at over 70 amps (490 watts!!) It is a world of difference.

[serpent17]

I've gottin some advice from another forum saying the same thing and did so. i cut the leads 2 inches on the motor and esc and put shrink wrap and then solderd then made everything NICE!! retimed it on the pc (i calm the settings down) then it was the same.

thanx for the advice though about me not having enough energy to spin these little power suckers.

BUT i kno that ALL the mamba max esc's are the same but each with diffent kv motors maybe I'm better off getting a 6900kv motor with my esc. the esc i have to say is the best I've ever had besides the old novak tempest and the novak roosters. but those are dino esc's i though BL will do it!! I'm maybe stuck on old stuff and need to invest in cells.

(^_-)


I will bet the connections from the ESC to the motor on your MM 5700 went bad. From your dates, you got the crappy banana connectors. Use better connectors or direct solder. Set the LVC to 5.0 volts and have a blast again.

[Drift Demon]

i run TT01, 8.30FDR, MM, Vortex 7.5 & i have never had a problem with cogging or hesitation. i run deans for battery, 4800 25c & 4700 20c lipos with the following wire setup

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f275/dori_demon/000_0879.jpg

Im planning to get the new 08 Vortex 7.5 motor aswell, & use bullet connectors so i can change wire setup on the fly if i feel its not right...

[serpent17]

is that a 3racing tt01 chassis?? i love 3racing!! but didn't like the plastic chassis the motor mount broke in one week then trashed it.

that's the same setep i have though mamba max with the 3.5 you have 7.5? I'm geussing it takes let battery draw so you could power it better with 6 cell pack or some good matched nimh cells.

i don't use my mamba system anymore though the esc doesn't want to arm anymore the light flashes and nothing. i have the airtronics m8 and i know all the settings and it doesn't work.


I'm using the novak super sport plus with a 19t lightspeed motor and its quick and runtimes are so long it gets boring at times =]

any tips on how you got your setup working well? what type cells? lipo? I'm not a lipo person. have you use that setup with nimh?

[Drift Demon]

pics of my chassis are here - http://eastcoastdrift.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2112

I have had my mamba for little over a year now. As for batts, im ussing an Elite 25C 4800 2s & Premium Power 20C 4700 2s. The plug on the 4700 is causing a few problems, i find that genuine deans are the best plugs suitable for this type of application. I have never tried NIMH with the 7.5, but my mate has an IB4600 pack that i would like to try out.

When i get the new vortex 08 7.5, i also plan to upgrade all wires on the esc to 12 gauge, fresh new wires wouldnt hurt, probably help it out a bit more, i feel the current wires are lacking in power delivery.

because i drift with this setup, the runtimes im getting are around 45mins, i never run full throttle constantly, only if i need speed for longer drifts.

Before i bought the vortex, i too was skeptic because of other users having problems with them, but i took a chance & yeah, have had this motor running & still in the car longer than the other 2 I had, a 5700 & 4600 both died due to overheating. The thing i really like about the vortex motors is that they allow air to flow through them, & you can take em apart to change/lube the bearings.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f275/dori_demon/25revnormtimingautolipo.jpg

as you can see, most of my settings are stock standard, i heard ppl were having issues with vortex's if they were running drake brake past 40%. i only change my timing when the wether gets hot, in winter i run normal timing, but in summer i run lowest, i have never run the higher settings & i dont plan to either.

I was running the vortex on the old firmware for about 6 months with no problems. I also heard a few but not alot of ppl having issues with the new firmware so i stayed away from it for a little while. only recently have i upgraded to the latest firmware, i feel the motor is much more responsive & it runs great. but yeah never had cogging ever.

With the new vortex motor, im thinking of also using the CC bullets & soldering the female plugs into the solder tab holes on the motor, so its much easier to change wires around & it can be done on the fly. My soldering skills are a little rusty, & i dont want to be having to solder them all the time to change wire setups, id much rather solder them once & be done with it!

[serpent17]

pretty sick ride!!! i do some drifting myself when I'm bored.

why tt01? those cases give me doubts tamiya surely is skimping on there onroaders these dayss.

so when you borrow those ib's tell me how it works for your setup. but it wouldn't matter now to me i won't be able to try it since everything burned out.

if you like i have a FULL CUSTOM tc3 i could send pix in a email. people love my car =] i use it for grip racing also drifting. but i use my other tc3's for drifting mainly.


i wish everything worked good like it first. I'm going to get the novak gtb 3.5 someday.






pics of my chassis are here - http://eastcoastdrift.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2112

I have had my mamba for little over a year now. As for batts, im ussing an Elite 25C 4800 2s & Premium Power 20C 4700 2s. The plug on the 4700 is causing a few problems, i find that genuine deans are the best plugs suitable for this type of application. I have never tried NIMH with the 7.5, but my mate has an IB4600 pack that i would like to try out.

When i get the new vortex 08 7.5, i also plan to upgrade all wires on the esc to 12 gauge, fresh new wires wouldnt hurt, probably help it out a bit more, i feel the current wires are lacking in power delivery.

because i drift with this setup, the runtimes im getting are around 45mins, i never run full throttle constantly, only if i need speed for longer drifts.

Before i bought the vortex, i too was skeptic because of other users having problems with them, but i took a chance & yeah, have had this motor running & still in the car longer than the other 2 I had, a 5700 & 4600 both died due to overheating. The thing i really like about the vortex motors is that they allow air to flow through them, & you can take em apart to change/lube the bearings.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f275/dori_demon/25revnormtimingautolipo.jpg

as you can see, most of my settings are stock standard, i heard ppl were having issues with vortex's if they were running drake brake past 40%. i only change my timing when the wether gets hot, in winter i run normal timing, but in summer i run lowest, i have never run the higher settings & i dont plan to either.

I was running the vortex on the old firmware for about 6 months with no problems. I also heard a few but not alot of ppl having issues with the new firmware so i stayed away from it for a little while. only recently have i upgraded to the latest firmware, i feel the motor is much more responsive & it runs great. but yeah never had cogging ever.

With the new vortex motor, im thinking of also using the CC bullets & soldering the female plugs into the solder tab holes on the motor, so its much easier to change wires around & it can be done on the fly. My soldering skills are a little rusty, & i dont want to be having to solder them all the time to change wire setups, id much rather solder them once & be done with it!

[GSMnow]

Serpent17,
It is very hard to actually burn out a Mamba Max ESC. It does have internal over temperature shut down, and with the low resistance and your NiMh batteries, it is hard to believe you could fry it. Is your radio gear AM, FM, PCM, DSM? With my Spektrum DX3.0 radio I had to set the arming delay to 2.5 seconds to be sure the RX would be operating before the ESC arms. Without the arming delay, it was near impossible to get the Mamba Max to enter setup to adjust the end points and neutral. You then need to set the throttle and brake end points to 97% or so (You can use 100, if you can go higher, I will explain later) and the trims (and sub trims) need to be zero as well. If the trigger has throw options, like 50/50 or 70/30, use the 50/50 setting. With the TX on, hold full throttle, then turn on the RX. When the ESC arms, it will flash the green LED and start flashing the red. Push full brake trigger and hold. The ESC will beep the motor again and then switch to the yellow LED. Now if the end points are set rihgt, you should be able to just let the trigger go to neutral and it should beep the ring tones and arm. At this point I add 3% to the end points to be sure that I always get full 100% power at full trigger. If this does not work, let us know where it dropped out from the setup guide.

[serpent17]

I've checked all my settings and everything seems ok I've adjusted all trgger settings. I've trgger epa settongs and exp settings.

right now I'm using FM 75 mhz RF mudule. but going to upgrade to the airtronics 2.4 ghz DSS (Digital Spread Spectrum) transmitter module & 4-ch receiver is designed only for use with my airtronics m8 or m11 radios

WHAT HAPPENS:
well my switch broke off its so small and flimzly, so i just "hot wire" the esc with twisting the two wires together lol. i plug the leads to the receiver and and plug the battery in. then full gas it and turn the radio on then twist the wires it turns on and make the little noise tone and NOTHING all lights flash red green and yellow. so i think to myself and I'm saying the leads that go to the receiver are cut or broke because it not getting my signal BUT NOPE the stearing works also my fan that's mounted on my heatsink works. the lights just FLASH red green and yallow. i adjust the settings and nothing i cleaned the esc because there was dirt biuld up and re-tryed it and nothing i even left the batt pluged and had it flashing for ten minutes and NOTHING.

I'm NOT new to the world of rc but i am new to brushless and so far I'm cursed.

[Drift Demon]

i did exactly what GSMnow described, i have also cut my switch off because it was causing hesitation due to the switch not engaging the on position properly. I had no idea how to arm the esc with no bloody swiotch, little did i realize the new firmware & castle link has the arming time feature, awesome feature that is, great for Spectrum users.

Im in love with my Mamba max esc, its a great speedo, excellent features, etc.

[serpent17]

i got mad and smashed my computer so i can't time or play with the arm settings.

also i regret smashing it because my whole itunes was on it =[ Lol .

ill upgrade to 1.17 on someone esles compueter and change the settings and get the mamba max esc going again (hopefully) and delete the castle link program once I'm done.

did you have same problem as i have now? did your leds just flash with all colours and nothing happend??



i did exactly what GSMnow described, i have also cut my switch off because it was causing hesitation due to the switch not engaging the on position properly. I had no idea how to arm the esc with no bloody swiotch, little did i realize the new firmware & castle link has the arming time feature, awesome feature that is, great for Spectrum users.

Im in love with my Mamba max esc, its a great speedo, excellent features, etc.

[Drift Demon]

so, are you still running with firmware 1.09? that could possibly be your problem right there. also bud, you seriously have to get some new batteries aye? cruise around on the buy/trade forum & nab up some matched ib4200 or even 4600 packs, thats what i did until i gathered enough money to get a lipo.

I honestly dont think its your esc otherwise it wouldnt start up at all, but we'll get to the bottom of this. you said you hardwired the motor wires to the vortex? & you use genuine deans? i know you have probably done this numerous times, but check each motor wire, batt wire & receiver wire individually, take the base of the esc off the board & look inside. check that your solder areas are fine, check the soldered switch wires aswell, & the three capacitors.

so the esc is making the intializing tone? and you have checked your epa settings? when i armed my esc, i first tried it with 0 EPA, & when i went to arm it, it couldnt find the full throttle position so i had to change my epa to 100 then it armed properly.

[serpent17]

i got mad and smashed my computer so i can't time or play with the arm settings.

also i regret smashing it because my whole itunes was on it =[ Lol .

ill upgrade to 1.17 on someone esles compueter and change the settings and get the mamba max esc going again (hopefully) and delete the castle link program once I'm done.

did you have same problem as i have now? did your leds just flash with all colours and nothing happend??



i did exactly what GSMnow described, i have also cut my switch off because it was causing hesitation due to the switch not engaging the on position properly. I had no idea how to arm the esc with no bloody swiotch, little did i realize the new firmware & castle link has the arming time feature, awesome feature that is, great for Spectrum users.

Im in love with my Mamba max esc, its a great speedo, excellent features, etc.

[GSMnow]

Serpent17, where in Los Angeles are you? I work in Burbank, and my PC with the software is always with me. I would be happy to try and help you get your Mamba Max back up and running. I would also be interested in buying it off you if you just want to try something else.

[serpent17]

GSMnow!!!! no no! I'm very interested in my mamba max system still, even though its not working correct i still like it i just need to plug it to the caslte link and get to work on it.

I'm in the heart of hollywood close to sunset and highland. (((would you really help me out in fixing it?!!?))) i mean if you have any 1:10th scale onroad cars ill be more then happy to have a race buddy not joking!! if your offroad my brother has a tamiya high lift Lol but its to cool to bash!!

just in case your wondering I'm on here via my sidekick3 !! it works VERY good for a cell phone.

[serpent17]

i use ultra deans connecters for all my cars. i bought the mamba system and after the first week and a half or so... it drop speed by half also it will cogg like crazy. i checked everything and at the time i still had the wack bannana plugs so i choped them and solderd direct (wire to wire) and shrink wraped everything, bought some new 3600nimh and the cogging didn't go anywhere. i seen all the adds on the vortex 3.5 and i started reading more about it. i even got some advice on some other forums and everything seem it was good!! i got it from tower and pluged it in and the cogging was still there. also i did update the caslte link program the day it came out was the day i got the motor. i timed it and it wasn't working proper.

like gsmnow stated that my cells don't have enough power to spin the motor at the fullest speed it could handle but i couldn't even get a quarter of the power.

i already kno its my cells but i don't see why other people use novak systems with 6cell stick packs and pull 70mph.

all i want is to now fix my esc and invest in a good brushless motor that will work with the mamba max esc I've had some good advice on motors but everyone seems to tell me get new cells. I'm better off getting a 6turn motor with my mamba max esc and enjoy Lol .

so, are you still running with firmware 1.09? that could possibly be your problem right there. also bud, you seriously have to get some new batteries aye? cruise around on the buy/trade forum & nab up some matched ib4200 or even 4600 packs, thats what i did until i gathered enough money to get a lipo.

I honestly dont think its your esc otherwise it wouldnt start up at all, but we'll get to the bottom of this. you said you hardwired the motor wires to the vortex? & you use genuine deans? i know you have probably done this numerous times, but check each motor wire, batt wire & receiver wire individually, take the base of the esc off the board & look inside. check that your solder areas are fine, check the soldered switch wires aswell, & the three capacitors.

so the esc is making the intializing tone? and you have checked your epa settings? when i armed my esc, i first tried it with 0 EPA, & when i went to arm it, it couldnt find the full throttle position so i had to change my epa to 100 then it armed properly.

[Drift Demon]

i dont think your batteries are causing the cogging problem, you might have to send the MM to castle & get them to look at it. as for a good brushless motor, that afterburner v2 seems to have great features, considering getting 1 myself...

[serpent17]

yeah that one guy electric thunder on the first page of this thread said medusa motors where good but i think once he knew what type of cells i use it was out of the question.


since you use lithium polymer there shouldn't be any doubts that its a good motor.

[GSMnow]

Serpent17
I sent you a PM.
There is certaily a chance you lost a phase in the ESC. But it is hard to hurt the MM. I have had a wire break right where it comes off of the PC board. It was tough to find as the insulation held it together good enough to work some of the time, but it just could not handle any current. When I finally found it, the wire was black inside, and I had to cut out over 1/4 inch to find copper that solder would stick to again. That did cause some bad cogging, but it would still drive.

LiPo has some advantages, no doubt, I love them, but with the LVC in the Mamba Max set to 5.0 volt, my EP4200 pack will run my MM5700 solid as a rock. I loaned it to a guy and he out qualified my with my LiPo. We both had Losi XXX-4's with Mamba Max 5700 power. He was geared a little faster than me. I could pull him in the slower sections, but he pulled 4 or 5 feet on me down the long straight. Our fastest laps were within 0.1 sec and both cars easilly ran 10 minutes. Good NiMh packs can push a Mamba Max quite well. Set the LVC too high, and it has no power, set it too low and the RX goes nuts from the voltage dropping too much. 5.0 volt seems to be the sweet spot. As far as the Medusa motor, if it is more efficient, it should also run just fine on the NiMh cells as long as they are in good shape and the LVC is set right.

The 3.5 motor though, it is just too high of rpm to use unless you can gear it to rev like a dental drill, or you need to run 4 or 5 cells.

The Novak brushless systems will run better on weak batteries for several reasons. The processor in them is not doing much at all. It gets the pulse width from the RX and programs the driver for the proper duty cycle. The 3 hall effect sensors directly tell the driver which coil lead to connect to with the drive dudty cycle calculated. Even if the battery voltage falls to 3 volts, it will keep the current flowing to the correct motor coil until it turns and the sensors tell it to switch to the next winding. No cogging, ever. All sensorless systems have to start the motor blind. It does not know which winding to power up. You battery needs to supply enough current to pull the rotor into sync with the current pulses from the ESC, until it turns it fast enough for the ESC to "read" the rotor position frpm the motor power wires. A lot of calculation is needed to compute the next timing switch point. If your battery voltage dips too low, two things can happen. The rotor does not get enough torque to turn and the motor skips back and stutters. OR the voltage drops too low for the processor to operate, and it resets. Setting the LVC to 5.0 volts virtually cures both issues and will make the car drive, even with weak batteries. It can (will) still stutter from a dead stop if the batteries are very weak, but this will be obvious as the yellow LED will flash when you want just green under power. Yellow is neutral, and red is brake/reverse. Green and Red will flash based on how far you are towards the end of trigger travel. Fulll power should go to steady green, and full brake to steady red.

I hope this helps.

[serpent17]

HOLY CRAP!! Thanx for the whole run down on all the little diffrent subjects!!!

that cleared all the questions on this thread!! you made the novak gtb glow in my mind as i was reading what you said!!! (i think the novak is for me.) how much do they run for? i wonder if tower sells the novak gtb hmmm gota see. if its low enough price around $200 i might get it.


ill check the wires in the morning. it does sound pretty true about a wire might be broke but within the silocon insulation so its not noticable.

i misplace my vortex 3.5 motor =[ i checked everywhere!!!


WOULD YOU THINK YHE NOVAK GTB WILL MASH OUT ON MY NEW 3600NIMH CELLS?? i take really good care of my cells with discharge and store them at 50% power so it doesn't discharge so much and get ruin. i peak them out at 3.5 amps and run the car untill it crawls and untill i assum around 5.2v I'm sure its safe for 7.2v cells

[GSMnow]

Now that your Mamba Max is fixed...

Yes, it was a broken wire from the RX to ESC. Ground and power okay, No signal.

Get a feel for it with the 5700 motor on your 3600's and you should be pretty happy. I did leave your LVC at 4.0 volts, so it should be pretty happy. If the battery gets too hot, raise the LVC to 5.0 volts. That should limit the surge curents to keep the battery happy and keep enough juice to the RX and servo to stay in control.

If you do end up getting bored and really need to go faster, you need better batteries. If you use punch control, and LVC to limit current, sure you can get more top end out of your 3600 cells with a little more gear, but acceleration and battery life (not just run time, number of cycles) will suffer as the current draw tries to increase. The LVC works very well though, so it will just have less and less acceleration. The higher you gear it, the more limiting the ESC will have to do to save your battery.

As for the 3.5 sensored motor... If you find it... Whatever pinion you run on the MM 5700 motor, you need to drop 40% for the 10,500KV 3.5 turn. For example, if you run a 20 tooth on the 5700 and it runs good, go down to a 12 tooth on the 3.5 or put in a bigger spur. Here is how
I got that.

5700 / 10500 = 0.543

20 x 0.543 = 10.857 teeth

The Novaks tend to not hit as high of an RPm under load as the Mamba Max's so going up a tooth from there should be in the ball park. Geared for the same speed should run about the same wattage, which is limited by the battery.

[serpent17]

THANX FOR FIXING MY ESC!!!!!!

it works fine!! i just have to change the three wires to something new and solder very well.

you know what? my motor isn't bad at all. i thought it was burned after one week after perchase because my gearing was BAD. i had it over geared, i put the stock tc3 gearing but instead with the stock 24t steel pinion i put a 24t rrp pinion and its SUPER FAST and very good runtime.

I'm thinking my problem was that since it was over geared it taking to long to spool the car up to speed so i thought it was slower and burned. but now it gets fast quick and stock very well.

now i just need NO droop in the front because its starting to rise up in the front!!! BRUSHLESS CAN'T LIVE WITH OUT IT.

p.s thanks again for the fix i lost hope for a minute also i put the screws back on the motor with loctite Lol . hope to hit up that one track someday =)

[Drift Demon]

now to strap up the vortex 3.5, you have to find it & tell us how it goes with your now fixed mamba max, awesome to hear your back in the game...

[serpent17]

it wasn't the esc that made the vortex cogg I've used the vortex on the esc when the esc was working proper it was my cells. IF i ever go lipo ill be sure to hook the vortex motor up and gear it very low and see what happens. untill then ill keep to my mamba. I'm not that interested in the vortex because i didn't know it had so much magnet drag like brushmotors but ill keep it just incase the mamba motor fails and ill go lipo.

how's the tt01 running?

[Drift Demon]

awesome, havent been able to run her in a while though, i go drifting with my mate, its boring just the 1 person, my pinion is about to strip though, i can hear it & its very very high pitched, nevermind though, i gotta RRP pinion coming soon...

[serpent17]

how's the gearing on that chassis??? do you still use tamiya spur and pinion?

i hate tamiya pinions so much!! make sure you get metric tho or the teeth will be to sharp

[Drift Demon]

DF-02 67T spur with the tamiya 21T pinion... 8.295 FDR

[serpent17]

df02? those fit on that chassis?!! tiight!!!

if i were you make a spur adapter so you could get full sets of rrp spurs and pinions

do you ever put rubber tires on?? also i know what you mean I'm always running my car alone not many people have onroaders that i know

[Drift Demon]

ah, i have 48pitch gears lying around waiting to be put into the TT, A few weeks ago i found a TBevo5 spur gear adapter from square, & it looks like itll be a direct fitment to the TT01 shaft joint. when i buy it ill let you know how it goes...

[serpent17]

yes tb chassis might fit but even if it takes some grinding and cutting do it. because those tt01 spurs and all the rest like them aren't about anythinggg. once they discontinue the part it sucks

[Drift Demon]

Yeah, i have a Pro 4 spur gear hub, i tried to get the thing to fit but it just wouldnt, because the hole on the shaft for the pin to sit into to secure the spur gear hub was too far back, i needed to drill a hole further up front of the shaft in order for it to work properly, still havent managed to get around to it, but i would like to try this other spur gear out, hopefully it should fit without modification, making it another bolt-on hop-up available for the carbon chassis, you should seriously invest in the carbon chassis, best part i have ever got for my chassis!

[serpent17]

i do have a FULL carbon fiber chassis. what's ur email i send you pix i love my tc3. i neeeeeeed to rebuild it tho. the bearings are going bad.

i could send some pix in a email.