Castle Creations 9,000kv 1/10th BL Motor for Mamba Max

[Chilly Duncan]

83795

New from Castle Creations (http://www.castlecreations.com/):

This one goes to 9,000.

Check out the web page. This one is special if not original.... http://www.castlecreations.com/products/cms36-9000.html

Where do you go when your 7,700 kv powered 1/10th vehicle is too fast? Try a 9,000 kv version. All the Castle goodness in a 9,000 kv motor. Guaranteed to damage your car or your curbs, this one is not for the faint of heart.

Recommended for use only with the Mamba Max 1/10th scale controller on max of 2S Lipo.

Specifications:

Input Voltage: 6-8 NiCad/NiMh MAX / 2s LiPo MAX
Size: 1.4" dia. x 1.7"
Weight (w/wires): 7.0 oz (198.4g)
Shaft Size: Standard 1/8" (3.2mm)
Bearings: Oversize ABEC-1 front and rear
Connector Type: 4mm gold connectors

Part# CMS-9000
Price $99.00

[catalysst]

wow...so when your Traxxas Rustler hits 88mph, does it go back in time?

[1stGenCRXer]

wow...so when your Traxxas Rustler hits 88mph, does it go back in time?

Only if the flux capacitor has enough juice.

[rccardude04]

I fail to see the point of this.

Nonetheless, I will have to own one. :D

-Eric

[SpEEdyBL]

Just an FYI, this motor on 2s will not be any faster than the cms5700 on 3s. The rpms will be pretty close, but 3s has an edge in efficiency verses 2s.

[MrCrash]

Darn. So close. I was hoping to use this...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/Spinningfox/Internet%20Fads/OVER%209000/9000cat.jpg

[Ihaveaxrayt2r]

Awesome!!!! Now theres is a motor when you break your car it can be more injoyble.

I wounder how fun it will be going as speed of light.

Back to the furture baby!!!!!

[ElectricThunder]

This motor is probably going to get pretty hot in most vehicles I would imagine. People have a hard enough time with the 5700 getting hot!:eek:

This thing would be downright sick in a pan car geared up though.:D

[chewie]

lets just say this 1/10 pancar on 3s lipo with the 9000kv

[rccardude04]

90,000rpm = bad. :D

2s will only hold voltage and give so much current at high speeds, but the advantage of using a shorter ratio should allow for a little higher top end than a 7700 on 2s.

Only good for high speed runs though I'd imagine... Or an M03. :)

-Eric

[porra]

It's funny how that little story says, "Only the Mamba Max, nothing else has the balls to handle that much power!". I wonder if the Mamba Max has the balls to handle a 2.5T (12,280Kv) or better yet a 1.5T (18,102Kv) motors? It's great to see a high Kv slotless design, but it'll ask for too much power and I hope the Mamba Max will handle it. I hope Castle didn't set themselves up on this one. I'll be watching the feedbacks from anyone who gets one.

[chewie]

If the mamba max can run a 12 lb truggy on 4s lipo I'm sure it will be fine in any 1/10 situation. And the motor will only use what its given

[rccardude04]

2.5/1.5 etc. motors are only actually 12000 or 18000+kV at VERY low RPM on a sensored system. As the rpm increases, unless you're using a sensorless or 'hybrid' controller, the lack of timing advance effectively decreases the (delta)kV at higher rpms.

-Eric

[Dagger Thrasher]

I wonder if the Mamba Max has the balls to handle a 2.5T (12,280Kv) or better yet a 1.5T (18,102Kv) motors?

I'm pretty sure most other "legal" motors with ratings like that are rated unloaded, wheras the Mamba motors are under load. Otherwise, the 2.5T you mention would be doing 90,000RPM at full throttle...and very few motors can handle those RPMs (let alone a 1.5T!). This motor is gonna be FAST on 2S.

[rccardude04]

Nothing is rated under load. The load really doesn't matter so long as the voltage holds.

The sensored motors aren't designed to run sensorless, so their kV for a 1v input might be 18,250. But at 7V, the (delta)kV between 6V to 7V might only be 1,200.

-Eric

[pasan]

This motor was announced like 3 weeks ago on rc-monster. I like to see explody motor on 4S please.

[rccardude04]

129,600rpm @ 14.4v. :D

Heck, it's 66,600 at 7.4V. That's above the 60,000rpm limit they've been telling us about.

Sounds about right. :D

-Eric

[timie1]

Has anybody actually clicked on the Castle link? The one that goes to the green page?
What a dumb ad. Me thinks Castle needs a new marketing division if that is the best they can come up with.

It's not funny in the slightest, and it's not convincing, and it sounds like a bunch of brainless zombies discussing how stupid they are, and nothing more.

[rccardude04]

They should hire Losi's marketing division but without letting them decide what to sell. :)

Usually Castle's ads are pretty good. But what do you expect from Kansas anyway? :p

-Eric

[pasan]

The ad mentions 100k rpm. That would mean on 3S you might just be on the threshold, at 11.1v, and even 12.6v wouldn't be so bad under load conditions. No doubt some bright spark will try this.

[SpEEdyBL]

The bearings are actually rated for 70,000 rpm continuous and 85,000 rpm for short periods.

[chewie]

Pasan ill be that bright spark

[JeffEmbracedDC]

Has anybody actually clicked on the Castle link? The one that goes to the green page?
What a dumb ad. Me thinks Castle needs a new marketing division if that is the best they can come up with.

It's not funny in the slightest, and it's not convincing, and it sounds like a bunch of brainless zombies discussing how stupid they are, and nothing more.


Wow. This is a young crowd.

The ad is a joke. It's a spoof off of a film called "This is Spinal Tap". Rent it. Buy it. Cherish it. Play it.

Though it's one of my favorite films, to be completely honest it doesn't really seem appropriate. Spinal Tap isn't exactly tomorrows blockbuster. I don't think a lot of today's population is familiar with it.

-Jeff

[rccardude04]

Pasan ill be that bright spark


But 4s is better than 3s for you right? :D

-Eric

[chewie]

Yes but I think this motor on 4 s will explode. Id run a 7700 on 4s tho

[vroom88]

Wow. This is a young crowd.

The ad is a joke. It's a spoof off of a film called "This is Spinal Tap". Rent it. Buy it. Cherish it. Play it.

Though it's one of my favorite films, to be completely honest it doesn't really seem appropriate. Spinal Tap isn't exactly tomorrows blockbuster. I don't think a lot of today's population is familiar with it.

-Jeff

I got the joke after reading about halfway through the ad and for the uninformed this is what the ad is a spoof of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7IZZXQ89Oc

[timie1]

Lol :D Ok, I didn't know about that Spinal Tap spoof, I'll admit that. However, when it's done in the movie, that IS funny.

I just think it's a poor example of marketing, as not many people will get the ad. But each to their own I 'spose :D

[NitroTXT1]

yea according to rc-monsters gearing calc 15/83 in slash gets you 45mph and 66,600 rpm I wonder how toasty would this thing get?

[WheelNut]

I LOLed. Funny ad. This is the kind of thing that is good for hobby shops, because they will sell more parts after selling one of these motors, haha.

[rccardude04]

yea according to rc-monsters gearing calc 15/83 in slash gets you 45mph and 66,600 rpm I wonder how toasty would this thing get?

15/83 won't mesh on a Traxxas transmission I don't think...

Even so, hot as heck! I'm running 15/86 and my 6900 gets pretty toasty. I can't even imagine a 9000kV motor geared taller...

-Eric

[chewie]

eric run a 17 tooth ;)

[rccardude04]

Nah, it's pretty much overgeared as is.

Everything is just kinda hot in general. I haven't run any LiPos in it because I know they'll deliver the current necessary to make it go poof. :D

-Eric

[chewie]

It won't make it go poof more voltage = greater efficiencyt. What is the 6900 in ? How's your esc temp ? If the esc is cooler than the motor gear up

[rccardude04]

I could swear it was the other way... Motor too hot = too tall. ESC too hot = too short. Both too hot = need more voltage or bigger (physical size) motor.

-Eric

[chewie]

Esc hot means overgeared
Hot motor undergeared

Both too hot = something wrong

[SpEEdyBL]

If you overgear, it is possible that both your esc and motor will overheat. Nothing abnormal about that.

Generally, assuming your are not an idiot and you are not running voltage beyond the limitations of the esc or motor:

If only your esc is overheating there are three possibilites.
1. Your esc is not as capable as it SHOULD be to run the motor you are using.
2. Your motor is too fast for the area you are running in, causing you to use low throttle too much of the time.
3. Your batterys are not up to the task. Esc's do not like voltage drop btw.

If your motor is overheating there are six possibilites.
1. You are overgeared. (greater amp draw = greater heat)
2. Your motor is too fast for the area you are running in, causing you to use low throttle too much of the time. Gearing lower is not the solution as it will cause you to use even lower throttle amounts during acceleration as the motor will be a lot more snappy.
3. There is something wrong with the motor. Partial rotor demagnetization is the most common, with another symptom being a higher than usual rpm.
4. Your motor is a crappy motor (the only circumstance where undergearing applies) Trust me. Good motors cannot be undergeared unless you are literally gearing for 10 mph when you should be gearing for 40 mph. Try finding a pinion gear that would allow you to do that anyway.
5. You are exceeding the motor's true voltage limit. The manufacture's rpm rating is usually the max rpm before the possiblity of damage. However, a lot of motors start losing efficiency well before that point.
6. The timing is set too high. For delta wound motors (castle, feigao) timing should always be set to the lowest possible. There is no benefit to running higher timing when you can just gear up to get more top speed instead. For wye wound motors, (novak, all roar legal motors on the market today), medium timing can be used, but no more than that. High timing is for drag racing only.

[porra]

What I've noticed is that a lot of people will drive in a way that it will cause things to heat up. Full throttle - Full brake and just giving full throttle all the time will only cause your ESC to make big AMP spikes causing everything to heat up. A smooth driving style will keep everything at a normal level. This has to be considered as well, because I've read about people having similar set up vehicles and one will always complain of heat issues. All of this only comes into play, if your electronics are working properly, if nothing is binding on the drive train and your mesh is correct.

[NitroTXT1]

15/83 won't mesh on a Traxxas transmission I don't think...

Even so, hot as heck! I'm running 15/86 and my 6900 gets pretty toasty. I can't even imagine a 9000kV motor geared taller...

-Eric

yea i think i'll stick to my mm/9l/3s- 23/83 gearing setup

i'd like to try the 9000 but it'd probably have to be geared like 11/90 or something

[SpEEdyBL]

Or you could just try the 5700 on the 3s pack you already have and get equal or better top speed. Otherwise if plan to run the 9000 on 3s then temps would be the least of your worries, while something WILL overheat fast.

[GSMnow]

I guess there is a market for motors like this, but in the real world, the ONLY reason for a motor like this is when you are rule limited to 2S or 5 or 6 cell NiMh. Higher voltage on a lower KV motor will make more POWER. Even if the internal resistance is low enough to lose leww energy to heat than a 5700, the ESC, wires, and battery will all have more heating losses due to having to push 50% more current to make the same power as the 5700 on 3S.

5700 x 11.1 = 63,270 11.1 x 80 amps = 888 watts

9000 x 7.4 = 66,600 7.4 x 120 amps = 888 watts

The 5700 will win every time.

And then you need to make sure you can gear those speeds properly in the vehicle.

You really should run a data logger to see what your motor is doing. If you are not getting within 90% of kv x volts, you are wasting power. Silly fast speed runs aside, you should gear to top out the motor on the layout your are driving. The super high KV sensored motors are a dufferent animal. They have more internal resistance and much higher inductance due to the iron stator core. Most of the ROAR legal motors will never come close to their KV x volts numbers under any type of running load. My 5700 may only rev like an 8.5 turn Novak, but it out powers the 5.5 turn when it comes to real world power under the curve at almost any rpm. Of course, on a tight track, the softer power delivery of the 5.5 is easier to drive, so it is a trade-off. What is more imortant? The fastest acceleration in a straight line? or The best line out of a tight corner without spinning the tires too much? It is not so much the difference between sensored and non sensored as it is the slotless vs the stator design of the motor. The Medusa 4 pole motor nicely splits the difference between the two.

[surfer]

Why not...

OVER 9000!?

[fishymamba]

Why not...

OVER 9000!?

The LRP X-12 3.0 turn is 11,400kv!

[fishymamba]

But you can't run it on anything above 6 cells nimh

[GSMnow]

Esc hot means overgeared
Hot motor undergeared

Both too hot = something wrong

I have seen this a few times, and it just is not true.

You can't under ger a motor unless it is over voltaged to where it will explode from rpm.

Take a Mamba Max 5700, connect it to 2S, with no pinion on it, pull full trigger, and just let it rev, it will get warm, but not hot. How much more under geared can you get. The eddy currents at very high rpm will cause some heating, but nothing like the resistive heating of too much current. I think a better rule should be, if the motor is running hotter than the ESC you can run more gear as that will bring the ESC temp up, but if the ESC is hotter than the motor, you should gear down, as the ESC temp is purely resistive heat from current alone, and not effected by much at all by rpm.

There is some truth to the under-geared over-heat when you are talking very high KV slotted stator motors, but that is basically for the same reason as an over-voltaged setup. The unlaoded RPM on a 12,000 KV motor is just plain silly which does cause eddy current heating in the stator. Is does not take a physicist to figure out that 12,000 x 7.4 = 88,800 RPM, yet the motor will only get to about 75,000 before the eddy current starts holding it back. The no load current on motors like this starts to go way up, so you can see where the heating is coming from, but I would still bet, it will get even hotter if over geared. This does not really happen with slotless motors and if you over voltage a slotless by too much, you will find the rpm will go until motor destruction. When you plug these motors into the motor matching equations, they are basically running over voltaged and will not be efficient. But that is racing. To get an edge, racers have pushed components well beyond recomended levels. Having poor efficiency and a hot motor after 5 minutes is not a problem with a 5000 mAh battery, and with just a 5 min race, they just don't care. You can get a bit more useable power to the ground with these setups, but they are short term inefficient beasts. Do not go that rute for long run bashing. Those things are for rule limited racing.

I just don't understand why so many people see high rpm as more power. Power is torque x rpm OR voltage x current. Do the math. RPM is only half the equation as is current. If you want a high power system that will run for more than 5 minutes at a time and last, then use a proper KV motor on more voltage and gear it properly. Anything over 100 amps is usually a waste, so 3S is 50% more POWER than 2S, and going to 4S is double the power. Going up in voltage is a huge win/win. Lower KV motors make more torque per amp and there fore run cooler. A 4600 at 3S will make a 7700 at 2S look like a dog.