Builders Guide Model Y Gee Bee (Electric)

[PipesCS]

My Model Y Gee Bee design effort previously covered in an earlier forum will be coming out in the April edition of M.A.N.. This is a first for me so don't mind my big head

The original forum was a work in progress showing many twist and turns as I worked out the design so it is a little hard to follow.

After the test flights I pulled all the changes together and finalised the plans along with changing just about every piece of the short kit that had been cut by Top Notch Products (TNP).

I purchase a proof kit from TNP which should arrive in the mail today. Its purpose is to support this thread and to also replace the original which has been hung in the Den of greats (Ok I am afraid I will crash it so I am building a second one to fly)

After talking with the Model Airplane News editor, Jerry Yarrish I decided to start this new forum showing the final methods used.

I thougt I would group the assemblies to show the basics of any contruction so that a new builder would not get lost. I hate to say it but the article is too short to be of help and as I am not a professional at this the plans can be a little vague also.

I would like to say from the get go that this is also a place for other builders to come and ask for clarification on my work. Any feed back on clarification of the plans or short kit will go onto the plans and back to the kit cutter.

[PipesCS]

I went back thru the plans and made a lot of changes based on the prototype along with changes that worked out well with earlier designs

Most of these were in the wing area where I tried to move all the parts into the short kit to make it easer of a beginner who may not have access to a local hobby shop still carrying building materiels

The plans are on two sheets, both on 3 x 5 foot paper.

Model airplane news will sell them thru thier plan service.

If you should go with the short kit from John Valentine at Top Notch you can ask that they be added to the short kit. If you have previously purchased them be sure to tell John not to include them.

[PipesCS]

As I do not have the new kit to start I thought I would start with the cowl ring and radial.

The model could be built with a Williams Bros Cyclone Radial as the model is 1/8th scale. But due to its high cost (Over 40.00) and my fear of crashing (Only three kinds of model airplanes, Those that are going to chrash, those that have crashed and those hung on the ceiling) As I have the engine I may make a mount for it and put it on the Prototype as It is retired.

The radial on the prototype was purchased from Dare Enterprises (Dare Design-Po Box 521, Cumberland Maryland, 21501, www.darehobby.com) with the concept that the cylinders are glued to the front and back of of the ring support (RS-1). I realised very early the plastic engine itself would not hold the ring in place on a nose over.

[PipesCS]

The ring support assemby is made up of RS-1, (4) RS-3 and RS-2

The do not have to be assembled over the plans as any flat surface protected with wax paper will do.

The RS-2 that is shown is changed slightly from the original to cut weight and add cooling holes into the fuselage for the battery.

NOTE: pay sepecial attention to the orientation of RS-1 and RS-2 to ensure the number one cylinder is straight up when the assembly is finished.

RS-1 has an arrow pointing up and the new RS-2 has a flat top line now.

[PipesCS]

The plastic radial is cleaned up as a whole and the front section glued to the front of RS-1. The aft sections of the radial were cleaned up and glued individually to the back of RS-1.

One thing I did not do when I finished this part was to take a dremel and clean up the excess plywood from around the cylinders. It would greatly improve the looks.

The original plywood was drawn by simply laying the Dare Hobby radial on a scanner and importing it into AutoCAD to draw out the profile. I fudged a little to ensure there would be enough matereil should the radials have any variation

Later you will find you have to remove most of the radial gearbox to allow cooling air but not to worry as the nose bowl covers it up.

[PipesCS]

The radial/cowl is attached to F-1 around the motor using 3 4-40 cap headed screws and washers. They are accessed thru the space between cylinders using a ball driver.

Prior to gluing F-1 into the fuselage T nuts are epoxied into it to accept the motor mount and radial mount screws.

NOTE: Do not fly the Model Y with the cowl off unless you make adustments for the Center of Gravity.

[PipesCS]

The cowl ring is layed up layers of balsa and plywood using a pattern supplied in the short kit.

If not using the short kit simply cut a pattern from scrap plywood.

The pattern is assembled using a long 1/4-20 bolt which gives you the ability to knock the pattern out after the ring dries

Prior to glueing up the first layer cover all the edges with clear tape to ensure the part does not stick.

NOTE: DO NOT GLUE THE PATTERN TOGETHER AS IT IS EASER TO GET OUT IF YOU CAN KNOCK IT APART.

The laminations started with two of 1/64 plywood to give the edges strength. I then used 1/32 balsa till I reaced a look I liked.

The entire assembly is placed in a drill press or lathe to sand to shape.

This of course could be done by hand also if a press or lathe are not available.

[PipesCS]

The original prototype flew with decals provided by Callie's Graphics out of New Mexico. The cost was around 20.00. I know she had to increase her prices last year so am unsure of the cost.

They would be worth twice th price. I had all the vinyl installed in a night.

The originals were done off my drawings that I took from Mr. Hafke's qtr scale drawings and resized.


One note on the original order I left out the eye on the bird and had to cut mine with a small piece of brass tube.

I will try to send Callie a letter to fix it.

[PipesCS]

Callies vinyl graphics come on a backing sheet that allows you to position, then remove the backing.

This made it a breese to get the wing numbers perfect but you must start at one end and lay them slowly pressing out all the air bulbbles as you go.

[Shnokey]

Nice to see the new thread - I'll be watching. Looking forward to getting one started.

[PipesCS]

Glad to see you found the thread Shnokey

You had mentioned jumping in and I will say John is cutting and has sent me two kits which I am going to do and the other is going to a model builder in Maryland to proof out.

Anyone jumping in now may have to make corrections as we go because I have yet to get a design perfect the first time.

I will be talking with John at the end of this proof build to go ahead and make it a full kit as it will really only need the balsa for the stringers and fuselage planking, along with some hardware.

[PipesCS]

I was checking the back door until the time when the mail should have delivered the new kit, only to have the wife remind me it was New years day and there would be no mail.

To make matters worse, She drug me to Walmart which was like rubbing salt in a wound.

Decided to discuss the Landing gear as it was not changed.

The gear is a carry over from the Model D which I did just prior to the Model Y.

The gear is all 1/4 inch balsa built up around the main gear that is formed from 1/8 music wire.

Some of the photos may show the Model D as like I say there was no change in the procedure only the scale.

[PipesCS]

Kit arrived today but I did not get to spend about an hour on it. Wife took me to a sale to buy more clothes.

I thought I would slip it in here before I go to far.

John ships USPS priority mail so I would have had it thursday or in three days if the holiday had not gotten in the way. (Remember I live in Lester Alabama and there is no such thing as next day mail).

Cost was 115.00 which was higher than I was expectiing but it was a large increase in parts since the original. I added over 150 parts to the list. It turns out it is more of a kit than the usual shortkit with over 350 parts including the wingspars. With the cowl jig and everything but the 1/16 inch planking and stringers in the box it is pretty close to complete.

[PipesCS]

The leg fairing and wheel pants are built up as an assembly and then glued around the main landing gear wire.

The assembly is started by gluing together MG-3A and MG-3B for each main gear.

This assembly along with MG-1 and MG-2 are glued to MG-4.

NOTE: Two of the MG-4 have alignment markings to assist in aligning MG-1 thru MG-3AB. Using these assures you end up with a left and right main gear.

[PipesCS]

This assembly is flipped over and MG-5 and MG-6 are added using 1/4 inch dowls as alignment pins. ( Do not Glue them in at this point !!!!!!)

The dowls are removed and MG-7, the outer layer of the pant, is glued on to the stack.

This completes the half of the gear that will be glued to the completed wire main landing gear. With this assembly glued to the MLG (I used Goo Glue to bond it to the wire) the unmarked MG-4 is glued on sealing the wire internal

[PipesCS]

The inboard side of each wheel pant is removable for wheel changes/maintenance. They are aligned using the permenantly mounted dowls later.

NOTE: It is important that you layout the parts in the right order to not end up with two of the same inboard pants. You need a left and right.:teacher::teacher:

To make up the removable inboard pant glue up MG-5, MG-6 and MG-7

At this point the assembly can be taped together with the dowl installed to be sanded to final shape. I used double sided tape to hold the loose MG-4 inplace during the sanding.

[PipesCS]

Once the farings and pants are shaped. (Ones in the photos are from a set on the Model D but same concept) they are fitted to the MLG.

They make a good guide to ensure all your wire is lined up prior to wrapping and soldering the joint.

Once the farings are glued to the MLG wire they may be removed with the gear to be finish sanded and covered or painted.:wave:

[PipesCS]

I am rushing thru this to some extent looking for fit problems and it is paying off. So far I have found one part that is on the sheet twice in the correct format and one old version.

I also found a notch had not been reposistioned at the tail along with a mistake on F-6

It was an easy fix to hand cut the clearance notch but will still go ahead and send the change to John.

The fuselage is started by pinning one side down to a flat surface and mounting F-3, the battery compartment floor and F-5 to it while it is pinned flat.

This initial step assures the model is straight so take your time fitting the parts dry prior to gluing.

Once dry add the other side while the whole thing is still pinned flat to the board.

[PipesCS]

Install Frames F-2 and F-1.

F-1 requires that you glue seven T-nuts to the back side using epoxy prior to gluing to the side frames.

F-1A and F-1B should be installed prior to putting the top and bottom of F-2 in place. (Ask me how I know) (This by the way were the parts that I had too many of on the sheet along with one wrong one that was the one I used):(:(:(

[PipesCS]

From this point on it is a simple matter to add each inside frame and build up the outer frame (Stringer Supports) as you go.

I had to trim just a little on the tabs of F-10 to get a good tight joint without binding

NOTE F-10 must be glued into place on the upper and lower fuselage before the tops and bottom of F-6 and F-7 are installed.

[PipesCS]

When installing F-3T and F-6T it is important to keep them perpendicular as the will be the hatch line which is designed to be lifted off.

I will show my two mistakes here:mad::mad:

On the fuselage sides I had forgotten to reposition the notches in the fuselage sides for the stabilizor mount. The notch in it will align with the tail later. On this one I just recut the notches as needed. Will get the changes to John tonight so anyone in the future should not see this.

F-6 was missing its ears which left a spot open aft of F-9. I will fill mine with scrap but have already made the drawing change to the cut order.

[PipesCS]

One of the biggest changes in the model from the prototype was to deepen the battery compartment floor.

As the servos were originally attached to the floor, lowering them was not an option due to control runs binding.

For that reason the servos were raised.

With the new battery compartment You can now use the new 20 C size 2000 ma in parrallel.:D:D:D

The original was tough to squeeze two 10C cells into.:wave::wave:

[PipesCS]

With the redesign I changed the shape of of the mounting disk RS-2.

This series shows the arrow drawn on RS-1 that is cylinder number 1 and should be straight up

[PipesCS]

The nose bowl on the phtototype was cut from 3/16 inch balsa and I have increased it to 1/4 inch to allow more materiel for rounding it over.

I glued up the rings and simply rounded with a sanding block. Putting it on a mandril and spinning it would probably work better.

[PipesCS]

This is a good point on the fuselage to put in the push rods. I used .047 Dubro pushrods with the white nyloy sleeves. They need to be well supported to keep

I usually mount the two servos and actually run the wire out the back.

I have added the cutouts for exit points on the box sides but to be truthfull they are a best guess on the runs and will need to be proved out.

After putting the wires in I felt a need to route out the cutouts a little more forward to lesson the angle to the control horns. I willl change the parts on the cut order.

NOTE: Ensure you anchor the pushrod guide at every frame to keep out play in the rods.

I also added a brace under the front edge of the servo tray to stiffin it up.

[PipesCS]

Once the pushrods are installed its time to put in the stringers. They must go on before the forward planking due to the way the stringers need to be notched for the planking.

[PipesCS]

It has just struck me that the tail surfaces have to be installed prior to the rear fuselage stringers as they nest around the tail.

The horizontal and vertical stabs. are bult flat over the plans

[PipesCS]

The battery hatch is built on a flat surface such as a table with an edge. The only critical part on the first steps is to ensure the two ends are perpendicular.

There is extra material on the base that you will need to bevel sand into the shape of the frames. This is to ensure the skin marries up with it.

Stringers should be stiff balsa or bass.

[PipesCS]

The skin is joined on a flat surface covered with wax paper.

The skin has square holes to line up with the square pegs located at the top of the framing.

1. Tack glue the skin to the alignment pegs.

2. Wet the upper surface of one side to help is bend around the curves. (I cracked mine trying to do it dry)

3. Put slow CA on the frames and along the one edge of the base piece.

4. Place the assembly on the edge of the table and slowly form the skin to the frames and base letting the excess skin overhang.

5. Remove the excess so that the assembly can be reversed to do the
other side.

6. Repeat on other side

[PipesCS]

Once the hatch is formed clean it up and sand the ends till they are a good slip fit. (My hatch started out too tight)

Add alignment pins to the bottom.

The hatch on the prototype was secured with a rare earth magnet in each of the four corners

[PipesCS]

Stuck in a hotel in Arizona. Hopefully Bob is working on the wing and can post photos soon.

[PipesCS]

While I was working in Arizona John started his wing.

He sent me three emails with comments but no photos to show you.

I flew home to night and checked out some of his notes.

One was that his plans were smaller than the parts. Both his set and the set I am building from came with the short kit from Top Notch.

First I checked out the parts to find they match the cad drawings perfectly.

Sure enough when I laid laser cut leading edge on the paper plans there was an eighth inch difference with the plans being shorter.

I took the part to the prints I had done here ( Also the ones I sent to Model Airplane news for copy) only to find the parts fit with no distortion in the plan. I do not know at this point if the plans that come off the printer at MAN will have a problem.

Looks like paper printers have some variation.

[PipesCS]

Decided to build the wing on the short set of plans to see what the issues would be.

As the ribs are tabed and the leading and trailing edges are slotted the wing will come out fine if the first rib is aligned to the plans and the spar is pinned staight over the plans. Bob and I both built over the short plans to make sure it would work.

NOTE: THE LEADING AND TRAILING EDGE PIECES HAVE A BEVELED END THAT IS FOR THE CENTER SECTION TO ALLOW FOR THE DIHEDRAL. THEY ARE MADE TO BE INSTALLED WITH THE LETTERING (FTE, LE) ON THE PART. UP RIGHT.

[PipesCS]

Some how I double posted this. The steps are below

[PipesCS]

One concern with the plans being off was spar length. If cut per the plan it would come up short.:mad::mad:

:teacher::teacher:I used the leading edge stock to mark and cut mine to length.

1. The lower spar is pinned to the plans using the center line as a reference.

2. All the ribs were double checked and put in to position without glue.

3. The false leading ad trailing edges were dry fitted.

4. Using R-1 as a reference the wing was aligned to the plans.

5. Once the wing was trued up it was pinned into position and glued using thin CA.:wave::wave:

[PipesCS]

Once the glue has dried I added the top spar.

Once the top spar was dried I added the shear webs that are part of the short kit.

Mine were a good press fit between the two spars but Bob complained his were a little short and that he could see light. He ended up replacing his. I would advise that you make sure you have the spars in the rib notchs before gluing. (Note they may need to be trimed to length between the ribs as I made them a little over length.)

When I glued the spars on, I matched the ends which come to think of it will need to be sanded to match the dihedral later.

[PipesCS]

Once the panel is glued up you can add the one eighth leading edge along with the one qtr inch trailing edge.

NOTE: The leading and trailing edges have the same beveled end that will have to be lined up on the inboard side of the wing panel

[PipesCS]

I have gotten home and started to recieve input from Bob over on the east coast who is building a proof model for me. (As you got the kit for free I think your whining a lot).

The thing is, his questions and imputs are fair as for one he has never seen the design (I never have written a how to) and although he has built hundreds of designs but like me is rather dated on laser kits.

So I thought I would put his comments in as we go.

The first was on laying out the tail parts.

It works best if you pin all the parts to the plan dry and once you have it all lined up go back with thin ca and hit the joints. Bob found that if you glue each joint as you go around the parimiter parts you can get it out of line on the last glue joint.

You will quickly realize that wood is a living materieal and we noticed that parts that fit on my kit were slightly too small on his

[PipesCS]

Notes on the wing construction. I meant to be taking pictures of it but never got around to it. Here are the notes so far:

The laser standoffs (Break Point in the laser lines) have to be sanded off should be emphasized every other sentence. As soon as I would forget to sand one off it would screw me up. I have more CA on my hands from this than any plane I have ever built. When I put the sheeting on and glued it together, it didn't go together nice and tight as I expected from laser cutting and wound up glueing the sheets to the wax paper. On removal I saw what the problem was( space due to the stand offs) but it was too late. Then when I mounted them the glue flowed through those same cracks and all over my fingers.I'm used to much tighter leakproof joints.

John wanted to know what was missing for a full kit. All the dowels. Those for the wing mount and the pants. The 1/8 front balsa wing doubler is also missing :teacher::teacher:(It is on the Light Ply Sheet where I placed it. Notified John to move it)

Make sure you point out that the leading edge and trailing edge are not symetrical and have to be oriented:teacher::teacher:

Dont cut the spars to size until after the wing is glued up:teacher:

Sand an angle on the center jont of the spars for a good fit.:teacher:

If the shear webs are short due to wood shrinkage cut another set that fit tightly

Cut off the spar ends after the wing is glued together.

Take the wing off the building board to glue the doublers on so you can see to center them top to bottom and side to side.This also allows you to glue the top spars to the shear webs without the glue running uphill.

Sand the leading and trailing edges flush prior to glueing the LE and TE caps on (Ribs stick thru and need to be sanded flush):teacher:

Glue the LE and trailing edge caps on with med CA o allow time for positioning

The landing gear mounts must be glues up and glued in place prior to sheeting the center section

Care must be taken to glue up the landing gear mount pairs correctly as they look alike but ar not interchangeable!

The lower sheeting need to be trimed to size prior to glueing.

It also needs to have the landing gear mount holes cut into the sheeting as this was apparently overlooked in the laser cutting ( I did not try to do this due to my inability):teacher:

After the lower sheeting is glued in place, roll some monokote backing sheet or paper around a pencil and then thread the resultant tubes into the ribs and glue in palce for the servo wire tubes . Better yet do it before you glue the two wing halves together.

The top wing sheeting is short so the cut sheet needs to be enlarged or a piece need to be glued to to bring them to size (Will fix)

Glue the tips up and trim and sand them to shape

Glue the tips onto the wing ends and add the reinforcin g triangles and trim then to shape

Shape the leading and trailing edges and fair them with the tips

[PipesCS]

One of Bobs comments was that he built up the top of the tips completely on the bench, then unpinning to build up the bottom.

When I did the tips on the Model D I had assembled them one piece at a time on the last rib. Then shaped the tip to match the leading and trailing edges.

I thought I would try Bobs method on one wing tip and mine on the other to see which one I like best.

:teacher::teacher:NOTE: IF YOU BUILD THEM THIS WAY IT IS CRITICAL THAT YOU BUILD THEM OVER THE PLANS TO ENSURE YOU END UP WITH A LEFT AND A RIGHT TIP. I ALMOST MESSED THIS UP:mad::mad:

This is Bobs method.

One thing is did was to sand the part edges to remove burs and that solved that problem. I used thick ca and as I joined the parts on the waxpaper covered bench top I slid them around to ensure they did not dry in one spot as Bob mentioned.

Also note that the pieces that make up the tip edges R6 THRU R9 are not symetrical and can be oriented wrong. compare them to the plans to get them turned the right way. (Ask Bob how he knows. Said something about making me attend a design college.)

[PipesCS]

Bob mentioned a part on the tip that came up a little short so he had added a small piece of wood to fill the gap.

New modelers may think that you simply stick a model together but that is not the case.

Should you come across a joint that does not match up, the art of being a modeler is the ability to cut, fit, sand, make new and keep moving.

Below is an example. Bob noticed this on the tips of his kit. he filled the joint with balsa scrap. Having been forewarned I checked mint. On the first tip I had a perfect fit. On the tip I built in place I found the piece did not quite fit up against the rib. As I caught it early I simply opened up the slot the part fits in to let it slide up to the rib.

Older modelers will remember when you had to saw out each piece with the pattern printed on the wood, which was followed by die cut (crushed) kits.

Laser or CNC really spoils us and we forget you really need to dry fit first.

[PipesCS]

Looking at these photos, I now realize the problem was not with the part but that Bob and I both let the last rib get a warp in it and it is bowed in at the spars.

[PipesCS]

Spoke with John at Top Notch about th drawings being off size. He is adjusting his plotter to fix the problem.

[PipesCS]

Well having tried it my original way of building the tip onto the completed wing panel verses building it flat on the bench and adding it as a whole assembly, I go with Bobs method of adding the completed assembly.

I only caution that you do not let yourself get carried away and build two of the same tip.

Take you time and lay out the parts on the plans to ensure you end up with a righ and a left.

[PipesCS]

I have had Bob and other comment that I do not mention a dihedral angle.

I will try to go back and put a measurement from the bottom of the wing to the tip but after building models for over 35 years still do not know why you would need it in this type of construction.

You are given a frontal view and the actual shape of the doubler.

My method has always been to glue the two doublers to one wing panel. (ensure it is centered on the spars with a 1/16 inch step on the top and bottom of each side to allow the wing center section panneling to sit flush) and then add the other panel. I usually cut the spars back a little leaving a gap in the center to ensure the leading and trailing edges line up.

After the center doublers dry I line up the leading and trailing edge to ensure the wing is not warped and glue them with their doublers.

As shown I do the joining up in the air off the bench. I have yet to have a warped wing this way.

If you build as Bob does by anchoring one panel to the board and propping up the other tip it would be a simple matter to measure the plans with a ruler. In the mean time I will add the change to the plans and try to get a revised set to MAN prior to their selling a set.

[PipesCS]

Got my photos a little out of sequence here. The wing panels have tubes leading from the center section out to the wing servo bays. These are to run wires to the servo.

I make mine from paper but Bob likes to use the clear plastic that is the backing for monocoat.

NOTE: THEY ARE NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO INSTALL AFTER THE WING PANELS ARE JOINED.

MAKE SURE YOU PUT THEM IN PLACE PRIOR TO GLUING UP THE PANELS.

[PipesCS]

The wing center section is completed after the wing halves are joined with a leading and trailing edge doubler. The leading edge one is simply to give a seat for the center wing planking

The center rib is simply glued in flush with the doublers edges to support the center wing planking. I had to sand mine a little to get them to fit.

The front center rib comes as a set of three to beef up the area where the 3/16 inch wing mount dowel will be mounted.

[PipesCS]

The landing gear on the prototype was secured using a fairly dated (Heavy) method.

The gear blocks are a carry over from my other two designs. They are built up from plywood as I am finding the average modeler may not have access to a model saw to rip out a wire grove.

The front set of blocks are built up slightly shorter than the rear set as they butt up aggainst R-1. This is because the three short blocks inlet into the side of R-1 weaken it too much to cary the blocks over the top. They blocks should stand proud of the rib wich causes the center planking to be cut in around it.

The front blocks are also drilled for the wire where the aft ones are not. I did not bend the end up on the aft wire to go into the wing but simply lay in the slot. It was secured with clamps.

The blocks are epoxied to the plywood struts.

[PipesCS]

Note that the slots open up on the inboard side.

The slots for the wire can be made longer if you wish to widen the gear stance.

This greatly helps ground handling.

[PipesCS]

The rear blocks assemble the same but glue into the slot on R-1, R-2 and R-3

They have no hole as I did not bend the rear wire to go into the wing. It is simply a brace.

[PipesCS]

Starting to finish up the wing.

Put in the aileron mounts and added the triangle braces to the wingtips

Planked the upper wing area and started sanding

Need to do the lower wing planking, but will put in some support strips on the sides of the landing gear blocks to support the planking

[PipesCS]

Before planking the underside I desided to add small 1/16 square strips along the edges of the landing gear blocks that are recessed to the edges of the ribs. These are to give the planking something to glue to next to the blocks and along the leading and trailing edge out past the doublers. These are not on the drawings right now but I may add them latter tonight.

The planking that is part of the short kit is not notched for the landing gear blocks and needs to be fitted prior to glueing. Bob asked me why I did not do it and I could not think a good answer exept I was reaching burnout on changes.

I cannot say enough that I am not a professional at this. I only do it as a hobby. John is providing a short kit and I am trying to make sure he has a good product but realize I am no pro at this.

As a short kit, it leaves a lot up to the modeler to workout the details.

[PipesCS]

The wing is just about all glued up, needing only the ailerons and the rear center section added that carries the wing out far enough to do the Filets.

:mad::mad:I will tell you now that the original design was not to have filets and that I went back and modified the design till I fitted one. It was my first effort and it is not shown on the plans as I could not figure out a way to do it with my limited drawing abilities.:confused::confused:

As we go thru this second build I will try to duplicate my work and add it to the plans at a later date.:teacher::teacher::teacher:

:wave::wave:

[PipesCS]

As I glued on the vertical and horizontal stabs to prepared for the stringers I realized I had not completed the pushrods for the elevator and Rudder.

You must have the push rods in before your stringers go on as you will not be able to reach them.

Ill try to get mine finished up in the morning and put in the first stringers.

Bob cut his stringers from bass wood for strength and I am doing it with balsa again trying to lighten mine.

Now that I think about it I may grind out some of the light ply to see if I can knock off a few more ounces.

[jwaj2002]

how heavy is it right now?

[PipesCS]

The original prototype flew at 55 ounces with two 3s1p 2000 ma 10C batteries wired up in parallel

It flew like a warbird being fast with out a bad snap in the turns. Definitly not a slow speed bird though.

As I am going to the 20 C batteries I may be able to get by with only one.

Thinking that any weight reduction would be a good thing.

One place in the wing is the spar, talking with John and Bob they are recommending going back to the hard balsa vice the spruce.

[PipesCS]

I started the stringers with the 1/8th square stringers that go from the firewall back to F-3

These are flush with the frames and are the supports for the seams in the 1/16 inch planking later.

There is also a 1/8th square stringer under the rear fuselage that runs from the rudder post forward.

[PipesCS]

The stringer for the tail are 1/16 X 1/8

I used hard balsa on the prototype and this one too, Bob is using bass for the strength.

The stringers end at the tail in a piece of 1/8 square stock to butt into. This is latter sanded down.

I am trying a new way to mount the tail wheel. Slightly different from the prototype.

[PipesCS]

This is where I am deviating from the plans to try a different approach on the tailwheel mount.

I had used a very light version from E Flite on the Prototype, and while it held up I thought I would try something a little more robust.

This also shows the vertical balsa on both sides of the tail for the stringers to run into.

[PipesCS]

After receiving the publication acceptance from M.A.N. I decided to retire the prototype.

It now hangs on the ceiling in the basement den (My Playroom) with other models I have hung up for the grandkids to look at.

If you read this and decide to build one please realize I am not a pro at this by any means.

[PipesCS]

Just a short note on quality verses inexpensive Motors and Speed Controls

So far in the three years I have been flying electrics I have only tried three manufactures motors-

My first experience was with the MPI HIMAX. I purchased two HC2208 series outrunner motors. Both failed when the cases seperated in flight. The second motor only lasted three flights. MPI informed me that it was not covered under the warranty.

I then switched to E-Flite based on my hobby shop owners recommendation.

I have now purchased and used three 450 out runners (PT 19s), two 480 outrunners (Model D Gee Bee), and a .10 (Model Y Gee Bee). No failures to date with two bent shafts from pile ups. The bent shafts were in the 480 and the .10. They were both bent on impact (One going straight in when the battery fell out in flight and the model hit pavement, the other when I took off on a maden with the ailerons reversed) Both shafts were available at my local shop and took less than 30 minutes to change out.

Yes the E Flites are a little on the Hi range in price but I have had no failures.

Recently purchased a "Cheap China outrunner" at the local hobby shop. When I asked my dealer what he thought about them, he refused to comment. He had recieved a shipment of them and they cost 20 dollars being in the E Flite 450 range. Long story short we put it in a Sig Kadet 400 that my son is learning on. I had a 450 E Flite in it for over a year and wanted to see if the performance was the same. Total life was 5 flights ( No Prop Strikes) before the motor started squalling and it burned out on the last flight. Bearings went out causing the motor to over heat. (NO Cowl, Plenty of air over it)

Bottom line you get what you pay for. If you are new to electric models, ask around before you buy something.

My only experiance with speed controls has been E Flite and Berg. I like the Berg better and the only failure I have had with the Berg was repaired under warranty no questions asked.

[PipesCS]

The original prototype was not planked until the second stage in the area around the fillet.

I am sort of re-inventing the wheel now on the second prototype.

I have started with the lower nose area with the idea of coming up and back at the same time. The planking is 1/16 in balsa.

[Shnokey]

- Fantastic!!!! - What a great story of the model and the original. Nice link back to the forum - We will be here to watch, learn and to assist as needed -

Bravo Zulu!

Jon

:)

[PipesCS]

Hey

Wife is on travel leaving me with two kids for the month. Not much modeling going on here but between Bob and I we have glued up the pieces and only found the three mistakes so far.

Bob has recommended changes on the plan sheet to make them easier to read. and I am trying to get them to M.A.N.

The changes have to go by paper copy though as M.A.N. only prints from paper. I added the CG which is just forward of the main spar and a note to not get the leading and trailing edges upside down.

[PipesCS]

I've received two emails from people that makes me think somewhere in the world the issue is on the news stands.

[Shnokey]

My issue arrived yesterday - read through the build article - again - well done -

[PipesCS]

In order to continue the planking on the fuselage it required me to mount the wing.

I glued in a dowel in the leading edge of the wing. Was suppose to be 3/16inch but I found I had made the hole in F-3 too big. Had to go with a sanded down 1/4 inch one.

The plates for the hold down screw are in the short kit. One set is tabbed to go into the fuselage sides while the other set glues to the top of them giving them added thickness for the tapping process.

The wing was lined up and the holes marked for 10x32 nylon wing bolts.

After the plates were tapped I ran thin CA in the threads and after drying I re-tapped them.

[PipesCS]

You will notice the blocks that I glued to the back of the wing trailing edge. They were added when I decided to put on the Fillets. (The model looked terrible without them)

Looking back there is probably a better way to fill in the area but as I am not a pro at this I simply blocked it in.

the wing is now mounted and the stringers are all done.

Boy Scout Meeting tonight and Basketball tomorrow. Not much will get done in the shop.

[PipesCS]

Well this has reached the point I have dreaded. The Article is out and MAN is selling the plans, and John has told me he has sold the first kit which altough I wish him luck on sales, I actually dread having people build it. As I say I am not a pro at this.

If you end up with one and have suggested changes or need to ask questions please use this site and I will give all the help I can.

I do look forward to people posting photos.

[jwaj2002]

are you going to do more in the DIY for finishing this one?

[PipesCS]

Don't quiet understand your question.

Is DIY for Do it yourself?

[jwaj2002]

yep, or would instructions be more correct for this thread?


I'd like to see what it looks like ready for the plastic coating to go on, but without that coating on there (forgot what its actually called)

[PipesCS]

Your asking if I am going to continue the thread to completion I believe and Yes.

I am on a slow down right now as the wife has been on travel leaving me to be a single parent for a while.

The next project is to plank the area around the nose and the area just above the wing.

[PipesCS]

Every once in a while I have to look at it to remind me how good looking a GB is.

[jwaj2002]

yea, I've got plans for a nitro one but we quit building when after getting the fuse ready for planking a drill press fell over and crushed the back half of the fuse

[PipesCS]

Now that would be a set back that would be hard to over come.

The original prototype is covered with Ultracoat. Heavy as all get out as far as coverings go but it looks good so I live with the weight.

[jwaj2002]

yea, we never worked on either of them after that, been busy, dad's been building a 1/4 scale 1930's (I think) indy car engine from scratch, that'll run

[Shnokey]

From a "fresh start" and approach to this design and plans, the cutting, measurements and the quality are great. No Worries - a quality design and easy assembly.

Will make a very fine addition to the workshop and flying field.

[PipesCS]

Moms home from her trip for two weeks so maybe I will get a little time in the shop.

Tonight I started planking the fuselage just above the wing.

As I said the prototype was done piece-meal due to it being a mid build design change. This time I am trying to plank in large pieces. I still did not carry the planking all the way back and will need to fill in on the bottom.

On thing I did was to add a small piece of wood to the face of F-5 and F-5 to try and cause the planking to take on a little more curve on the fuselage sides. It was a little too flat on the prototype. If it works out I will add the change to the short kit.

[PipesCS]

Manged to fit one piece to night and fit to the wing.

I am trying to get a good fit here as there will be a 1/64 sheet of plywood that goes between the fuselage and the wing. This plywood will be th bottom of the filet:wave::wave:

[jwaj2002]

now, you are soaking this balsa in water so it bends like that right? or atleast getting it wet so it flexes

[PipesCS]

I wetted it down on the outside only with a little cold water so that it will take the curve.

[PipesCS]

Needless to say I am fighting burn out. I have now built 5 Gee Bees in a row and the redoing of this one is tough:(:(

I managed to add a couple of sheets of planking today between three basketball games my son played in.

[jwaj2002]

are you burnt out on Gee Bee's?


on a side note you could probably nearly build one in your sleep

[PipesCS]

I had to drag out a Williams Brothers engine to take a photo of the Jugs for Bob. He did not like the looks of the vacuformed one and is planning on building his own radial from wooden rings.:D

The engine has been up on a shelf for years and after taking it out of the box I kept looking at the kit thinking how expensive it was and how it was over kill and heavy. Finally decided I would never build it as a display model so I may as well use it. Whats another pound or two.

The original ring for the cowl support was made to fit the Dare vacuformed engine and will need to be trimed up for the Williams Brothers engine.

I built up the engine as the front half only. This required me to sand the cylinder mount rings down to half as the engine will glue to the front of the ring support ..

[PipesCS]

The original Dare engine Worked fine and was lighter

[PipesCS]

I just recieved these from Bob who is also doing a build on the second of the production versions. He is running ahead of me , -and not doing every thing the way I am. This is what modeling is all about.

One place he made a change was to build up the cowl ring hollow to keep from using as much wood. We have also talked about a plywood ring covered with layers of blue foam and glass. His radial will be built up wood at this point.

He has also built his gear up from 3/32 vice the 1/8th inch wire I used. Saved on weight.

These photos make me realize I need to light the burners and catch up.:wave::wave::wave:

[PipesCS]

Managed to get both wheel pants built up and started the rough sanding. Looking pretty good.

Bob has gone with 3/32 dia wire for the main gear which is lighter. I am not so sure about the strength (Especially with my Landings)

Finished planking the nose area and mounted the engine to see if I really like the heavy Williams Brothers Engine enough to accept the weight gain.

[Shnokey]

Still watching, and cutting out two "kits" of my own.... Transferred all to my CNC machine and I'm making sawdust...

[Shnokey]

Any Progress?

[PipesCS]

I have not worked on the new model since Feb. It is hanging on the wall. I did manage to get the shop cleaned up and ready to work again. My work is in the way right now. Hows yours coming?

[Gary Rosa]

John quoted me $89.95 last week for the Gee Bee Sport short kit. Would this be the same kit that you paid $115 a few months ago or is the a different version. As I write this I realize that it would just be easier to just give John a call. That said I want to thank you for modeling one of my all time favorites.

Has anyone mention building this as a gas powered plane...how can you fly a "silent" Gee Bee?!!

During you initial flights the plane nosed over...I will fly off of an asphalt runway but was wondering if fudging the gear a little forward would make it less likely to nose over?

Thanks again, Gary

[PipesCS]

It only noses over in high grass.

What ever you do--- do not move the axles forward. I had it that way on the Model D and the plane was a nightmare to keep straight. More than one of the local hot pilots tried to take it off and could not keep it straight

Some one asked me for plans and I have lost the address. Can you resend the message with your address?

[Gary Rosa]

I sent a private message to you with my address...the message title is "my address"...pretty clever eh? Gary

[Shnokey]

Just Checking in - Still active and making a new Model Y - Pics this afternoon - This time it's a two cockpit version.