Associated RC10B3 Forum v1.0

[kilrbzz]

Thanks for the replies Buff, didn't have enough time to change my configuration for todays races but.......I raced at new track out of town today and found they raced 19t motors only. Well I ran my stockers against them and placed 2nd out of six overall! Best part was I was the only AE buggy. And the kicker was they kept asking are you sure that is stock motor?!:cool: Gonna tinker with the spacers tommorrow.

[pudder]

Way to go! I have raced against guys with mod motors like 10-15 turns, and me with a stock, I think I placed lower in the race, maybe third or so last, but no one was out of the race. :)

I am done for 2002, it is so cold here my batt started venting last weekend so I called it quits, but the good thing is there is only two weeks left of racing outdoor then like jan 7'th we start up carpet track indoor. :) I will still go for the last two weeks, and forsure to collect my first place trophy on last weekend. :)

[raypadro]

Hey guys I really need some help,I can't make my b3 to steer yight enought for my track,I got this car only 2 weeks ago but I can't figure how to make it steer tight enought.Any help would be nice.By the way I'm using green springs in front,factory tires,30w
silicone,shock position outer holes up-inner holes down.

[LouisB]

1) Lighter oil (20-25wt)
2) Softer springs (black?)
3) Lower the ride height at the front
4) Add toe-out
5) lean shocks in (inside on tower, outside on arm)
6) Move the battery forward

Are the standard tires suited to your track, do other people use ribs? If not then that would be yor problem

[DLF]

Louis, I thought leaning the shocks OUT at the top would give you more steering? Leaning the shocks in at the top would give more of an anti-roll effect and thus less steering. Is this not correct?

[LouisB]

when you move the shocks in on the tower they become effectively softer but more progressive and will increase corner grip, because by leaning the shocks in there is more leverage on them.

Standing them up may give better steering on high grip tracks but when the grip is low softer (leaned in) is better:)

Well that's what I've found anyway, whether it's right or not is another matter;)

[pudder]

Yes, I have found this out too. Generally, many people like to run middle holes if they have a selection of 3 or soemthing.

[Tawn Van Sullis]

I have a B3, and it works pretty good. I got the basic version, which has all composite parts, bushings and dogbones. I have a few questions. How do I get the car to stop nose diving of jumps? I'm making sure I'm giving full throttle just off the tip of the jump, and it still noses. Would more dampening help? If I don't want to get different oil how should I mount the shocks?(I'm using stock mounting positions and ride hight with 25 WT oil)Should I move the top outwards, or would that justincrease the spring tension as much as damping or change pistons? How much lighter is the graphite chassis compared to the composite? If all it does is increase stiffnes I don't want it.

[NV529]

run piston #1 in rear with green springs that should do the trick.

[pudder]

Try to keep on full throttle on throughout the whole jump, the momentum of spinning wheels will help bring the back end down.

[Tawn Van Sullis]

Does anyone race the b3 sport or basic? I always hear of people with FT or team b3's, but do they really make a big difference compared to composite parts? Is it worth it to keep my b3 and just get a graphite chassis and bearings(maybee CVDs) or should I just get a team kit? At my track I can beat some people but its just not enough to win. Or would it be better to spend money on something else like better batteries or speedo?

[LouisB]

Tawn Van Sullis, your basic B3 should be fine for racing, the B3 has undergone some suspension changes (in team and FT versions, quadrasymetric suspension) but the basic kit should be able to keep up although I would recommend getting ball bearings as they're a huge improvement over bushings. CVDs are nice but not essential. The team kit includes composite suspension components (and chassis I believe) so there wouldn't be much point in getting the graphite chassis:)
I think you should get the bearings and whatever electronics you need to be competitive, also work on the set-up because a well set-up basic kit will beat a poorly set up Factory Team kit any day:)
If you want a new buggy get a B4:D :D :D

[Buff]

raypadro......first of all.....what kind of steering are you needing? Do you need more initial turn-in going into the corner, or do you need more coming out of the corner? Are you wheels getting full throw to each side?...(both inside turned wheels should stop with the steering block stopping on the caster block) If not, change your end point adjustments. Definately make sure you're running the right tires. Look to see what the fast guys at your track are running and try those.

If you need more LOW speed steering, or more going INTO the corner, try moving your front shocks in a hole on the tower. Running the short camber link (outside on tower) will also help this. Stick with your green springs for this kind of steering also. Run a little weight in your bulkhead. I normally run 3/4 to a full ounce of weight in the bulkhead for steering....entering low speed and exiting high speed. Running a little more negative camber will help....like around 3 degrees, but no more.

If you need more HIGH speed steering or more steering coming OUT of the corner, try running (up front) a heavier spring like a silver or blue. Maybe try running your shocks out on the tower. Running a LONG camber link (inside on tower) will also help steering coming out and THROUGH the middle of the corner better.
Running a small amount of limiting can also help steering because this helps prevent from weight being transferred to the rear end so easily. You can try running your ride height slightly below the arms being level, but if the track you run on is rough or has many jumps, this may not be something to try as it will hurt the performance in those areas.

Just remember, ANY change you make on your car to gain something, you are always going to LOSE something. Example, doing something to gain more low speed steering, you most likely will lose some high speed steering.

Again, very important......only make one change at a time, then run the car to see the difference. If you change several different things at once and run your car, you won't know which change made your car better or worse depending on what it did. Keep notes so you can keep track of what to do the next time you run into handling probs. Hope this helps.

[LouisB]

Yeah, what Buff said:D
Thank-you for all that info:)

[kilrbzz]

Yeah, thanks Buff!
Great Info, really great!:cool:

[Buff]

notta prob fellas....:D

[LouisB]

I e-mailed them again, no response, so I phoned them and they said that because it's been 2 months since they PROMISED to send me the outdrives that they would give them to me for free (nearly $50) and a few weeks ago they said that they would send a free pinion too. This is turning into a joke, but it's not funny:mad: At least now they said that they'd refund the money already taken when I made the original order.

I wouldn't get anything from them if titanium wasn't so nice LOL

PS: I wonder what the customer support will be like when they start selling their own cars and batterys (which are in the pipe-line)

[kilrbzz]

Is that Titanium racing online? Because I've been thinking of ordering them aswell. I got the ti top shaft (tower) and definitely noticed better acceleration. Enough to gear up a tooth!
Any on else selling them?:cool:

[LouisB]

As far as I know titanium racing (http://www.titaniumracing.com/site.html) are the only company making ti outdrives. Shumacher import them to the USA. I'd wait until I get them because I don't know if they've actually made any yet then order them or you'll end up waiting 4 months like me;)
I also geared up a tooth when I got my Ti top-shaft:) Is yours Titanium Racing or RRP?

[kilrbzz]

I got the RRP. Keep us updated when they come in. Also can someone explain to me how the different suspension mounts angle degrees really work. I've heard varying results at the track over which to use and why.

[aeb3man_44]

finially I got a picture, this is me and my dad building our tc3(jan.2002) and my b3 is the 2nd buggy over

hope you like it!

[LouisB]

It looks very organised, my shed/workshop/place to shove all R/C stuff looks like a bomb site. I'm too ashamed to post a pic LOL.
Which other cars do u have?

[aeb3man_44]

thank you louis,

i have the ftb3, tc3, 3 rc10l's, and a rolling bandit
yes, my table is organized, my dad likes to have paper plates handy when building kits

thanks:)

[LouisB]

I have my FT B3, Tamiya F-103 (with 11 turn motor:D ), Corally SP12 G2, Team Losi XXX-S, a sweet T-Maxx and various parts of electric rustler all stacked up on top of each other;)

<edit> While I remember, it was my local club's AGM tonight, I was elected Electric Off-Road rep. (against my will) and I'm now the Webmaster too. How am I meant to fit that in with all my school work:rolleyes:

[pudder]

Give me the website duty and we'll call it a deal!

Our track's webmaster recently changed, and I was the first one to offer for the job of doing it, and the owner has even seen my work, and it is good, but now someone else does it, which is lame because the current guy havs only updated it one stinkin time and has only put pictures up there once, it really is dumb.



Edit: Look, I know yall have feelings about how people do their jobs, but crimynee, could you keep the language to a minimum?

[LouisB]

I haven't had much web-site design experience but I got it working OK. The site was crap before but I'll get to work on that eventually when I work out what the hell he was doing before:rolleyes: It's a mess and really badly designed so you have to redo most of the site to sort it out.
I would let you do it, but I'd have to send you all the results.

[pudder]

No no, I was just kidding about that site thing, just wenting about my own experience.

[pudder]

No no, I was just kidding about that site thing, just wenting about my own experience.

[pudder]

No no, I was just kidding about that site thing, just wenting about my own experience.

[aeb3man_44]

First time I saw a triple post! Good one pudder!

[RichieRich]

He's done that several times. :D

[adam lancia]

pulling off a triple post takes talent and years of dilligent practise!! LOL

[aeb3man_44]

here's my b3!

too bad it's in black and white, my sister took it with her camera

its a Ftb3

[LouisB]

Pudder, I was just teasing (but if you want me to I'll e-mail you all the results LOL)

aeb3man_44, nice buggy, where's the wing???

I gave my B3 a total re-build today (it really needed it after 11 race meetings) so it's all ready to go for the next championship (if it isn't rained off again)
I mainly did it because I wanted to check that everything was OK. Last buggy race my shock fell off and my CVD fell out, last touring car race my spur gear stripped, last 12th scale race my spur stripped (yes I do know how to set the mesh) and last Pro-10 race my diff. melted:D Quite a record don't you think;)

[pudder]

Darn, I dont think I have had any problems with my ehicles coming apart when I was racing, well not my T3 anyways. :)

[kilrbzz]

Hey guys! My local track just got a makeover and last night the track which is on the small side with several tight turns, a tabletop, a double, and two crowd pleasers(large jumps). Anyway I never could get the suspension dialed in. I started off witht the standard setup, then took out some spacers which helped some. But my car still seemed to bounce a bit. On the big jumps i seemed to bottom out slightly but not too bad. I shyed away from any major adjustments during the heats. Any suggestions for these conditions. By the way still took second as the only AE out of six! :D

Louis- Sounds like your due for a change in luck!
Aebman- Nice, but where's the wing. Black&White is cool.
Pudder- Were in the same boat. Only thing I've ever broke (B3) is steerturnbuckles which is rare! Knock on wood!

[LouisB]

kilrbzz, maybe you could try some heavier shock oil? Good result anyway:D

I haven't really broken much on my B3, the screw that held the shock on fell out because I lost the original and had to put a shorter one in:mad: other that that I've only broken one (or 2, I can't remember) front suspension arm(s) and that's due to the corners being marked out by big ol' tires:eek:
I want to move to America b/c it keeps on raining over here:( last buggy race was rained off and it seems that there's a good chance of that happening again because it's raining now:( :( :(

[LouisB]

It didn't rain today!!!!!:D
It was a really good morning of racing, the rain during the night made the track nice and sticky so finding grip was easy. I now race with the fastest people at the track and was hoping to get 6th place at best. I qualified 4th:) and after a crash-free final I ended up 1 lap quicker than I did before and just behind 3rd place:D

There wasn't any rain but there was strong wind (not caused by me or any fellow racers) I put my B3 on top of my pit box (big+green) but when I went back to it the car had blown off the top and the lid had come off! My car parts all the way through the pits LOL
Wind also causes some weird jumping and cornering characteristics:eek: (ie understeering into a wall)

[Nexus]

just bought a RC10B3 Team Buggy....can't wait to build it!!

i'm plan to race this fall and want to blast all those XXXs i see at the track!

RC10B3!!!!


Nexus

[AussieSam]

Hi,

Having some trouble with steering with my B3, generally the car is excellent except for the steering. Our track is hard packed clay and is bumpy in sections, we run it wet/moist. The end of the straight is a tight hairpin and my buggy has problems tackling it at speed, it understeers pushing me wide. XXX losi's fly through here, I run 25wt oil all round, green springs and #1 piston up front, green spring #2 piston rear. I also use middle battery placement and no weight in the front bulkhead, the rear hubs i have placed towards the back (longest wheelbase). I just need more on and off power steering. The rest of the setup is box stock. The only other minor problem is on the set of quads, my car noses in the front and sort of bounces the rear end high off the top of the jumps.

Regards,

Sam.

[adam lancia]

try the 25 degree caster blocks up front with silver springs all around. what front tires are you using? i've found that a slightly harder compound works better when the tracks is moist. move your shock mount to the furthest outside hole on your shock tower up front and closest in on the arm. this should get you a little closer. also try the optional ackerman setting on your steering link. hope this helps,

adam

[Xtreme7]

Hey whats your guys setups for a b3? I need help with this. Also, my track is really hard and compact with a little sand near the edges and I am not getting good front wheel traction, it is not the tires there new please help!

[adam lancia]

what kind of tires are you using on the front and back? what compound? take a look at associates website. they have a ton of setup sheets for the b3. i have used many of them for the track conditions that they list and i have been very happy with the performance. the basic hardpack set up sheet is a good starting point. try brian cox's setup for boomerang raceway or billy easton's for hot rod hobbies. you can also ask some other racers and see what setup they are running. hopefully that will get you started. holler if you need some more help,

adam

[pudder]

Originally posted by AussieSam
Hi,

Having some trouble with steering with my B3, generally the car is excellent except for the steering. Our track is hard packed clay and is bumpy in sections, we run it wet/moist. The end of the straight is a tight hairpin and my buggy has problems tackling it at speed, it understeers pushing me wide. XXX losi's fly through here, I run 25wt oil all round, green springs and #1 piston up front, green spring #2 piston rear. I also use middle battery placement and no weight in the front bulkhead, the rear hubs i have placed towards the back (longest wheelbase). I just need more on and off power steering. The rest of the setup is box stock. The only other minor problem is on the set of quads, my car noses in the front and sort of bounces the rear end high off the top of the jumps.

Regards,

Sam.

If there is any other AE cars there at your track that do fairly well, go to them for setup adcvice.

[AussieSam]

Hi,

You may be pleased to know that I fixed the steering with my B3. The problem was my old... old... old... Futaba 2pkh megatech junior handpiece, I couldn't get enough steering throw out of it. Now that I have bought a JR XR3 and the steering is hitting the stops, my B3 turns like never before. It also tracks as straight as a tack. Only problem is it now wants to oversteer and feels real twitchy, its not that it is hard to drive it just goes exactly where you point it - very aggressive set up. I think I just have to get used to the new handpiece and the new steering servo. Adam if you were refering to me I use Losi - Bigshots (rear) and Losi - Wide Ribbed (front). Losi - IFMAR pins work on the rear as well. One more thing I sold my old Futaba on eBay for 82 dollars AUS, hehehe.... I love eBay.

Regards,

Sam.

[LouisB]

I also found that when I upgraded the standard servo in my touring car to a high speed one. It was impossible to drive for a couple of heats but I soon got the hang of it (and was much quicker)
You may want to turn the endpoints down a little as too much steering can cause oversteer. I set mine so that I have enough steering to go round the tightest turn on the track but no more, it works for me:)

[Buff]

AussieSam.....now that you've seemed to find out what your steering problem was, now you say your car is oversteering right? Well, first off, your setup is a little backwards. Never run #2's in the back and #1's up front.....turn them around. Run #2's up front and #1's in the back.....THIS is more or less, the stock setup and is usually a good base for just about any type of track. However, I think your shock oil may be too light also. Try starting out with 30 wt front and rear.

BTW: How's that new "handpiece" thing working out for you?? LOL.....that must be some "down under" slang.....I always heard they were called radios or controller....

For those of you who need more help.....sometimes there needs to be more info as to the conditions of the track you're running.....I'm understanding that some are saying the track they run on is wet/moist but also what is important is knowing whether it's hard packed or loose dirt. This makes a HUGE difference in setup AND tires. :D

[kilrbzz]

OK Buff. Heres what I got. My track is pretty rough with large jumps and loose dirt. It is a highly technical track with several twist and turns. I'm running mostly a standard setup. 25wt green front, 30wt silver rear. My problem is the track is being ate up by eighth scale creating serious (I call them whoopty doos) bumps where there large buggies are bouncing down the track creating bumps or grooves where there treads dig into the track every few feet. I am thinking of adding a thicker shock oil as Louis reccomended. I am bottoming out on the landings of the large jumps but not too bad where it affects my acceleration off the jumps. My steering is fine and traction is overall good with bow ties or step pins. Any ideas to help me settle it down and keep my speed through this? Thanks

[pudder]

For the person with the XR3, I have that radio as well, and if you need to change stuff, you can do that just look in the manual, it is very simple to do and tune your vehicle.

[AussieSam]

Hi,

Here is a picture of the beast, thanks for your help. I dont have a problem with the radio, it was just funny to use after my old ancient Futaba.
http://www.jcu.edu.au/~jc125065/Untitled-1.gif

Regards,

Sam.

[pudder]

Also, just by looking at that picture it looks like your buggy is sitting quite high up. The way to have it setup for a good level is to have the front suspension arms lever with each other - - and same with the rear axles when all of the stuff (batt, motor ect.) is in your car. :) You can adjust this by changing shock spacers

[AussieSam]

Hi,

Hehehehe, you ppl think I am a fool, it is sitting high because there is no battery or motor installed.

Regards,

Sam.

[pudder]

Actually I don't think you are a fool, you know why, because I DIDNT know if there WAS any thing in the buggy for THAT picture.

[AussieSam]

Hi,

Dont get angry, I was laughing at myself not you guys. Sometimes a post will read differently than if someone were to speak it. I could see that coming though, I also expected someone to tell me not to run the buggy cause rocks might get caught in the gears.... hehehe...

Regards,

Sam.

[adam lancia]

hey guys,

when you run weight in the bulkhead, do you attach it to the little lip of the nose plate or to the bumper?? or do you put it somewhere else?? thanks,

adam

[pudder]

You put them where the blue square is if they are the self adhesive kind, if they are non self adhesive kind, you just put the pieces inside the bulkhead.

[LouisB]

I just take the front bumper off and shove it in the bulkhead.

[pudder]

Hey Louis, are you done that site yet? :)

[LouisB]

I had a go on the homepage, it's better (I think) but I still have a lot of work to do :)

[adam lancia]

thanks guys!!

adam

[Buff]

Adam....just like the guys said, put it INSIDE the bulkhead....keeps you from losing the weight from a crash. I've even seen some fill the bulkhead with solder. A buddy of mine made some kind of metal filler which was poored into the bulkhead and allowed to cool and harden......then when it cooled it was hard, and a hole was drilled and tapped for a large screw to go in.....the screw was used to grip the molded weight and pull it out of the bulkhead when you don't want to use it. It weighs exactly an ounce too which is cool....a lot of team drivers run this amount of weight in the bulkhead.

[NEED4SPEED27]

Hey everybody. I'm a beginner in RC and I was wondering if anybody could give me some tips on how to build the B3 and maybe some driving tips. I'm probably gonna equip it with a JRXr2 radio and a novak rooster esc and a 2400 nimh pack.

[adam lancia]

the B3 is one if the easiest kits to build. follow the instructions EXACTLY and you won't have any problems with it. it will perform well out of the box but if you're looking for specific set up tips/sheets, go to AE's website. they have a link to a bunch of set ups that their team drivers have used. the sheets tell you what kind of track conditions the set up sheet was used fro as well as comments on how the buggy felt. that should get you started. if you need anymore help, drop a line.

adam

[NEED4SPEED27]

Thanks adam.

[Buff]

Need4Speed...I will back up what Adam says.....follow the instruction book "to the T"......especially when it comes to building the shocks. BE SURE, and I stress BE SURE, to cut off the extra flange that comes on the internal shock parts asfter you break them off the plastic tree. This is VERY important to insure the smoothness to the shocks, and so they won't bind throughout their travel. When you get them assembled, pull the shock shaft in and out to see if it feels smooth....it should NOT bind at all or have a rough/gritty feeling. If it does, then pop all the parts out and start again, checking to make sure again, all the excess plastic is cut off the o-ring washers....the thin and thick ones....and even the retaining large washer. Be sure all the parts pop or snap into place in the shock body as well. Use plenty of shock oil on the parts before you assemble them and put a generous amount inside the shock body also. This may end up a little messy, but this will insure that all the vital parts are lubed and will slide into place easier.

Only thing else I would actually avoid in the instruction manual is the "actual length" of the tie rods. Just be sure when you assemble the rods, to put each rod end on equally to each side. I mainly "eyeball" the wheels/tires as to where to adjust the rods when they're on the car. Get the tie rods close, then get your ride height set, THEN adjust the camber, toe-in from there more accurately. If you set the camber/toe-in first, before you set your ride height, the camber will change because as the ride height changes, camber does also.

Well, hope this helps...good luck.

[pudder]

I took my time building my T3, kept my stuff organized on my bed, slept on the floor for the 4 day period I spent building it. :)

[AussieSam]

Hi,

Your joking arn't you, it couldn't possibly take four days to build a T3. Excellant choice though, too many losi's out there... Dont get me wrong the XXX's are great but I would rather run an Associated... the B3, T3 are hot when they dialled and an absolute nightmare when they are not. Losi's are much easier to drive... smoother you could say.

Regards,

Sam.

[pudder]

Yes, I am seroius but that is only because I had school and homework, and 3 of the days I had were school days. :)

The first night was just painting the body, the rest was assembling and dialing in all the stuff. :)

[LouisB]

I got my FTB3 after school at 4pm, I had it built before I went to bed:D

[Buff]

Honestly, I've put together probably about 10-15 B3's/T3's, and it still takes me about 8 hours a piece.....however, I make sure that all the flange is cut off/shaved, hinge pins/arms move freely, shim suspension where there may too much slop (sometimes in between the rear hubs and arm, and even at the suspension mount and arms).....basically after I install the electronics, it's race-ready.

I think a better prepared car will save you a lot of hastle down the road and at the track. This is NOT saying that a car can't be put together much more quickly than what it takes me, I just take my time....I'm picky and slow.....true attention to detail takes time.

[LouisB]

I try to pay close attention when putting my cars together (they go well afterwards with no problems) but I just forget to eat or sleep until it's finished LOL. I built my Rustler in 3 hours, even though it was my first car, and my XXX-S took an evening. Once I get started building I can't stop until I've got it to move:D
I think it shows how good (on the whole) R/C car instructions are, as it can be so easy to put a kit together:cool:

[pudder]

Since my T3 is my race truck I made sure to go through each step very well, and take lots of time. If I get a pede it will be in no time at all, a few hours because they are even more simple and I will use it for beating in the bush. :)

[Buff]

Just in case you guys didn't hear.....I posted this message in some other threads....thought it might be a little interesting...

Well guys, talked to Cliff today and got a couple updates....sounds as if the car will be available around right at the beginning to middle of January sometime. No exact day or week, but I'm thinking to expect it around the middle of January.

Also I think what the offroad people have been wanting for a while....threaded shock bodies for the B4 and T4 will be available!! Cliff said in about a month, they will be ready as a "Factory" option. They won't come in the Team kits which will be first introduced, but will be one of the first Factory options.

Just in case anybody's wondering.....the ONLY things that are shared between the B3 and B4 is the idler gear in the tranny, and the front shocks.....The rear shocks on the B4 are even a new length. The shafts are the same 1.02, but the bodies are a bit longer, but yet shorter than the 1.32 truck bodies.

Sorry....looks like no B4's will show up under the tree on Xmas day.... AE wants to be sure and get all the tooling right and everything in order so as to be sure nothing gets overlooked.

[LouisB]

Thanks for the info Buff:) Threaded shocks, at last!
Looks like I'll have to see about an 1/8 buggy for xmas:D

[Nexus]

"threaded shock bodies for the B4 and T4 will be available!!"

i've heard alot of talk about a B4...but a T4 also? hmmm

what i'd like to see is a 4WD RC10.


Nexus

[Nexus]

just wondering what peoples opinions on best stock motors.


i have a B3 Factory...i have a P2KPro.

i'm thinking about picking up the Team Orion 'Core'...


Nexus

[Buff]

Nexus....you sound suprised that there's going to be a T4.....this is usually what happens when a company designs a new car or truck....the other usually does follow sometime thereafter. It's just going to be quite some time before we see a T4. The B4 is still being finished and won't be here till sometime in the middle of January, so you can bet it's going to be several long months before the T4 is to arrive....

[Nexus]

buff...just started out following RCs so haven't heard to much about a T4.


i just bought a XXXT Matt Francis...so i won't wait for the T4. but i do want to replace the B3 i have with the new B4!


can't wait! only sux cause i'll have a ton of spares for the B3 by the time the B4 comes out.


Nexus

[pudder]

Well threaded shock bodies are good, but not good. Good because you can adjust quick and dont need to buy the shock spacers. Bad because you need to measure out each spacer if you are a real racer so they are same length and tension.

[Buff]

Well pudder, that's true.....however, remember the old shock collars that screwed on the shock bodies back before the shock spacers came out? You had to eyeball where to space the collars because the screw held them tightly to the body. If you don't want to measure each time, just eyeball it, and you should be close. I know what I've done is just use a tool or anything that's on your pit/table and use as a measuring reference, like a wrench or screw or something.

[LouisB]

Or you can screw the collar up to the top and put a pen mark on it, then you can make sure that the number of turns you make is the same on both sides:)

[AussieSam]

Hi,

Thats the problem with America technologically superior in most area's but still perstitant in using the dated imperial system, buy a metric ruler much easier.

Regards,

Sam.

[Buff]

AussieSam......I think I heard on t.v. (telly as you might call it?) that the US may switch to mm. I kind of wish we would in my opinion. Seems easier to use and easier to fine tune.

[pudder]

What I will probably do is just use the old preload collars to measure same spacing and then just take them off. When I get one I know I'll be getting the FT.

[ElectricDude004]

Theres going to be an associated b4?! I just bought the b3 on ebay just now. aww man!:( Now my cars going to be an antique. But, is there going to be any big change differences? : I hope not:mad:

[aspiringrcracer710]

Originally posted by ElectricDude004
Theres going to be an associated b4?! I just bought the b3 on ebay just now. aww man!:( Now my cars going to be an antique. But, is there going to be any big change differences? : I hope not:mad:

Dude, the B4 has been in the news for months now! I mean the AE boys were racing prototypes at the Worlds over the summer!

[ElectricDude004]

DUDE! For those months, i was out in vacation. I don't keep track to those AE bays everwhere> They where on the news!?:eek: hey, you didn't answer how the differences to the b3, dude:p

[Buff]

ElectricDude.....what kind of vacation did you take???? :confused: :cool:

Sorry you've missed out on quite a bit of r/c here as of late, but a LOT has happened. A B4 will be out in right about 2 months from right now. This is the speculated (which can change obviously at any time) time of which the buggy should be released in the Team version form.

The buggy looks absolutely NOTHING like a B3. As a matter of fact, the only things that were "carried over", were the front shocks and idler gear in the transmission. Otherwise, EVERYTHING else is completely new from the ground up. Bulkheads, rear shocks, transmission, braces, steering components, geometry, body, wing, suspension arms etc....and yes, even the wheels....

Looks like you better put your B3 back on Ebay in a couple months...;)

If you want to see pix, goto RC10.com and click on the B3 buggy...after that, scroll down a slight bit and you'll see a "GO"...."Sneak preview of the RC10B4!".....:D

You won't believe your eyes...:eek: :p

[Buff]

Oh, by the way....NO, there will not be a B4 conversion kit for the B3....:rolleyes: :D

I failed to mention....yes, the chassis is entirely new too....

The main goal and concept behind the design of the new car was to greatly lower the center of gravity by moving all the vital components of the car toward the center of the car for better balance and consistency.....and provide the car with many more adjustments....which you'll see in the pix. The motor was moved into the car further forward, and lowered, the battery cutout lowered, the front suspension designed so that the front shocks would even be mounted at a lower point also to contribute to lower CG......The arm mounts will be like what are used on the TC3....the mounts trap the hinge pins (there's a mount for the front of the suspension arm, and a mount for the back) which can be changed for different toe-in or anti-squat....this is obviously for the rear of the car. The rest of the hinge pins will be again, "trapped" by not e-clips, but by small button head screws which will keep the pins from coming out.....much easier. Roll center adjustments are also added front AND rear for even more fine tuning by using upright ball studs on the inner bulkheads.

Not only did they do this, they also designed the car so that it will jump better, land better, be more compatible with other tracks through extensive adjustability, accellerate much harder, and even have new wheels which will be compatible with Losi wheels, so the newer "spec" class tires/wheels can be run on the B4. The new wheels are also stronger w/ new added webbing to gain more consistency by reducing the flex from cornering, allowing the suspension to do the work. AE really did their homework on this car.....

I could go on more, but my fingers are tired.....who'da thunk?:rolleyes: :D ...just check it out for yourself!

[AussieSam]

Hi,

Who uses losi piston in their associated shocks? How many people have tried the rpm dual speed pistons? What did you think of them if you tried them?

Regards,

Sam.

[adam lancia]

sam,

i've used the RPM pistons in my shocks, but never when i was racing. all that i have used them for was jumping my 10T, the purple piston is firmer than a #3 associated piston, it helped soak up the air i was getting cause i was landing on level ground (read: hard on the truck!!). i haven't had enough time to put together a few days of practise trying a bunch of different stuff yet. i might get to it soon (the next couple of weeks) just have to wait and see. it all depends on school!!! i'll keep you updated,

adam

[Buff]

Sam and Adam....I've tried just about every type of piston you can think of including some prototype 3 hole pistons that Associated made a few years ago for the 98' NORRCA Nats....the track was very hard and smooth...they ran slicks so AE thought these pistons would help stabilize the car.

I've still got some of these pistons, but I hardly ever run them. They're just not consistent enough. They're great for jumping and landing, but they just can't allow the car to handle/corner well. Handling is very inconsistent from the heavier dampening. Every team driver, including myself, have pretty much always ended up right back to the stock pistons (#1's and #2's). Stick with these.....I wouldn't waste your time with RPM's or Losi's pistons....they just won't work for you....trust me.

[Buff]

By the way.....the Associated shocks were designed to work with the stock pistons....which is very quick. If you notice, Losi shocks have much more dampening and pack to them, for which they were designed to the Losi suspension. If you threw on some AE shocks on a Losi buggy, they'll work, just not nearly as consistently. And the same goes for Losi shocks on an AE buggy....The AE buggy is designed to work with a much quicker softer dampened shock.

[NewToNitro]

Im currently racing my RC10GT and buggies have always looked cool to me and 1:8 nitro is expensive. Are electrics a lot cheaper to run and maintain then nitros? As a newbie to electrics do you think the B3 would be a good start or should i wait for the B4? I will be running stock class and im looking at getting the peak performance 2400 packs (39.99 for 2) are they any good?

This would be the set up im looking at for stock(feel free to add or change)

B3 Team
P2k Pro
Pinion-???
MC230CR
XR2

[pudder]

Well they do have their cost ups and downs. For getting started, nitro is probably cheaper to do. Getting a good electric setup will cost a few coins, firstly the car, then if you are racing you will want some decent batts, you also need a charger, possibly a power supply, soldering gun, and ESC and radio.

You will want to get those all seperate if you are racing so you can make sure you are getting good things for your money.

In the long run, they are probably about the same. Basic electric expenses are new brushes for the motor, motor spray every once in a while, new batteries if they blow for some reason, which doesn't happen often. Otherwise that, you have the basic things a nitro has like keeping clean, tires, bearings, gearbox....

You should really get into electric buggies, and well if you dont like it, there is always ebay. But I think you will. :)

[Buff]

NewToNitro.....Well, you can look at it this way....electrics are much easier to maintain. No more flameouts during a race, or regular running, no more noise, no more searching for the right fuel mixture/needle settings, fuel to buy, glow plugs, not to mention the tedious maintenance on nitros AND the fact that a lot of indoor racetracks don't allow nitros because of the fumes or noise. Electrics are easier to keep clean because there's no fuel/oil residue to attract dirt, they're quiet, they accellerate quicker because there's no clutch to engage, just instant throttle. An electric buggy is VERY easy to maintain and is very easy to build/race. There's fewer parts also. Buggy tires and wheels are much cheaper than trucks too....lol....Oh yeah, an electric buggy elminates the need for another throttle servo instead in place of it is an esc. With electric, you can also get started right away without any experience. With nitro, it really helps if you have some previous experience with basic engine knowledge, otherwise it's much more difficult to get a hang of what's going on to get it tuned properly. Buggy's also make you driver more consistently because they're a bit more difficult to keep a hold of.....teaches you throttle control more than nitro. Throttle control in offroad electric is just as crucial as where you steer it. Be VERY smooth with the throttle.....you know what they say, "slow is fast".....most of the time this is true.

On the other hand, the downfalls to electric is that you have to buy batteries/charger, you have to let batteries/motor cool before you run them again (if you want to keep from wasting them) runtime is shorter than nitro which means there is also a little battery fade towards the end of the battery, where nitro runs strong till it's out of fuel. Nitro is also appealing because of how much more realistic it seems and the speeds can sometimes be mind-boggling....although some electrics can do the same.

Anyway, I just covered a few things that I could think of at the moment and I'm sure I've missed more theories, but you get the idea. I think if you switched from nitro to electric, you'd notice how much more convenient it is and easier. You get on the track a bit quicker without the worry of a flameout. If you get two battery chargers, this keeps you running continuously through a race day especially for practice.

Many companies make race-worth batteries and motors.....so it's mainly a personal preference. Peak is a good choice.....however I think if you want the best, go with Reedy stuff. Their motors and batteries are some of the best in the business......Reedy has something like 25 world championships now or something....:eek: :D ......so their reputation is obviously sturdy.

Some good 2400's will be perfect for what you're going to do....even if you find some 2000's laying around the hobby shops, they're great for power in the stock class, with 2400's being a touch better. You won't need any of the new 3000's or 3300's as they would be overkill for what you intend to do.

Personally, I would keep running your GT a little bit longer, because the B4 buggy will be out (hopefully from what I'm by AE) around mid January. It's up to you though...the B3 will still be very competitive either way.

[Buff]

(hopefully from what I'm by AE) around mid January. It's up to you though...the B3 will still be very competitive either way. [/B][/QUOTE]

I meant, hopefully from what I'm TOLD by AE....der...:rolleyes: ;) :D

[Buff]

Yeah, what Pudder said too....:D

[adam lancia]

you're just padding your post count aren't you buff?!?! jk...LOL:D

adam

[pudder]

I have 4441 posts. :p

[NewToNitro]

Thanks guys. I already have a MC230CR and a MRC959 peak charger that i use with my micro. I have a soldering gun i used to make my own batt packs for the micro too...so there is 3 things out of the way :)

Are these ok for stock class racing? (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXBBD3&P=7)

[adam lancia]

atta boy pudder! hehe.......

[pudder]

Yes those batts look like they should be okay. The only bad part about assembled packs is that they are not usually "matched" and matched cells have better performance and last a bit longer, but since those batts are pretty cheap price, I would get them.

[NewToNitro]

I figure i can always get a matched pack later

[pudder]

Yes, that is much better than what I started out with. :) I had 1500's to start out with. And that was almost a year ago. I think for upcoming season I am going to get some matched 3000;s :)

[AussieSam]

Hi,

Ok here is the setup, remember the track is tight, technical, bumpy, hard packed clay and run wet. A coulple of smallish jumps by US standards, a set of medium quads and a largish tabletop.

Front:
½ gram weight in front bulkhead
Caster block - 30 degrees
Ride height - Arms level
Camber - 1.5 degrees
½ degree of toe in
Ackerman – Standard
No bump steer spacers
Shock Piston - #55 Losi
Spring Black
27 ½ wt Losi Oil
Top of shock in the middle “d” hole Bottom of shock inside “g” hole
Inner camber rod in the “a” hole Kingpin centered in hub
Tires – Losi wide body ribs, reds


Rear:
Camber - 1.5 degrees
Ride height – Bones slightly below level
a-arm carriers – 3-3 with no shims (3 degrees toe, 3 degrees anti squat)
Wheelbase – as short as it gets
Rear Shock piston – #56 Losi
Spring – green Oil 20 wt Losi
Worlds rear shock tower
Top of shock in middle “f” hole Bottom of shock outside “c” hole
Inner camber rod inside “b” hole Outer camber rod outside “h” hole

Stock pistons dont seem to develop enough pack and the buggy bounces the rear off of the quads and smaller jumps. What do you guys think - better still try it out, it definetly jumps much better than stock.

Regards,

Aussie.

[DLF]

Just wondering. Has anyone here ever tried running step pin tires on the front? A friend and I take Losi step pins and cut them in half and refit them to fit front wheels. It makes the car a bit more aggressive and now that I've done it a few times, it's very difficult to go back to ribs. This friend of mine won't run anything but pins on the front.

[kilrbzz]

Hey DLF,
Could you elaborate a bit more on the aggressive nature of the front step pins? What type of track are you on, I assume its clay in GA, Is it more agressive turning, how do you compensate? Meaning car setup? I ask only because at my two local tracks almost no one uses pins on the front and at one of the tracks we have team drivers there regularly. I am very curious though.

Hey Aussie,
Sounds like I am in a similar boat, my track is bumpy with medium jumps, and ruts couteous of 1/8 scale nitro buggies. I have been experimenting with the oil and spring I am managing with a setup similar to one on the rc10.com site. It should listed under Rob Betts and Brian Easton. I am curious as to what US standard for jumps would be though! Also curious as to what the other drivers are recommending for this type of track.

Goood day!

[DLF]

Yea, the track is clay. When the track is wet and fluffly, step pins all around seem to work. However, once the track starts to dry and become packed, it's back to ribs and anything but step pins on the rear. I'm fighting the car alot as in no steering. Step pins in the front seem to really help...thus being more agressive. Although, in the back of my head, I know pins on the front is not right.

[Buff]

Adam....yeah, I think I'm going for some kind of record....:p :D

NewToNitro.....You're just about set then...:cool:

Pudder....where in the world did you even find ANY operating 1500's??? Hey, more power to ya brother. I'm impressed if you got by with just those. Gotta start somewhere though...we all did......which even reminds me of 1200's when I first started....talk about no runtime!:eek: :p

DLF....ever thought of trying ProLine's edge front tires for the buggy? Or even if you can find a set of old Yokomo fronts that were designed for the 4 wheel buggy....I forget what they're called, but I still have a pair. How about Losi HT's or golds? ProLine M2 ribs? How about Pink compound? M3's?

Sam.....hey, whatever works. I gotta ask though....it doesn't do quite well over the bumps or through the corners does it?? I know it's not near as stable or consistent unless the stock #1's or #2's are used. If you're needing more pack, why not just try running #2's all the way around with 30 or 35 weight? Trust me, Losi pistons (and those alike) have been tried ALL around this region, and they just don't work as well as AE's pistons, no matter what the track conditions. Your car might suffer over a few jumps with the stock pistons, but for what it lacks there, you can make up for using different jumping landing techniques via the radio. If the car is nose diving, throttle the car up....it's it's nose high, hit the brakes....if it's leaning to one side in the air, turn into which way it's leaning and this will level out the car (if the car leans to the left in the air, steer to the left hard while in the air before you land) . If it's landing hard, try hitting the brakes as soon as you land.....this will help stabilize the car from rough landings before you head on your way.

By the way, I almost forgot.....if you're running losi red tires, are you burning them once before you run them? (only do this ONCE right after you mount a fresh set)......spraying something like motor spray on the tire and lighting with a lighter burns off the mold release agent and oils that come on the tires from the factory....which are not good for traction. Doing this allows the natural rubber to adhere to the track better without any inhibitants preventing good bite. BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU DO THIS.....as this does create a bit of a problem if done carelessly!:eek: We don't want any Beevis and Butthead reruns.....:p ;) :D Motor spray is VERY flammable so be very very careful. Maybe Losi will do something about this from the factory soon so this will not have to be done.

[pudder]

"Pudder....where in the world did you even find ANY operating 1500's??? Hey, more power to ya brother. I'm impressed if you got by with just those. Gotta start somewhere though...we all did......which even reminds me of 1200's when I first started....talk about no runtime!"


Well I started out RACING with my Evader, dial charger, 1500's. :) That is all I had money for because I had just bought a 60$ set of foams for my truck, not to mention registration fees.

Suprisingly, if I made sure my batts got a full charge, I could easily make the 5 minute long race. :) I have one friend that is still racing with them, also due to budget reasons.

This upcoming carpet season (will be my second) I will be racing my FT T3 but this time round I hope to get some 3000's at Christmas so then I will have good batts for racing otherwise I would just have 2 old 2000's and a 2400. :)

[Luigi21]

My b3 has a big steering problem. I think step pins for the front would really do the trick. But what about 25 caster blocks? The car is understeering everywhere and I'm using the same tires as everyone else. Would the 25's help? And what does the optional ackerman setting do for handling?

[adam lancia]

the optional ackerman setting makes the steering more aggressive. i have had great results using the 25 degree blocks and the optional ackerman. something else to consider is putting 1 or 2 or even 3 of the thin white plastic washers (the ones that come with associated shocks) inside the shock between the shock piston and the shock body. this will prevent some weight transfer under acceleration and allow some more consistent steering. hope this helps. holler if you have any other questions,

adam

[DLF]

Adam, I have been considering changeing to the optional ackerman setting myself to try and get more sterring entering the corners. However, doing so would force one to screw the tie rods ends out further from the rods themselves. When doing so, is there enough meat left to prevent the ends from stripping out of the rods? Have you had any problems with this?

[adam lancia]

when you change the ackerman setting, you also change where the steering turnbuckles link to the steering pivots. the 4 ball studs change position when you make this mod. i think i had to actually use shorter turnbuckles with this set up but it's been so long since i changed to it, i can't remember correctly.

adam

[DLF]

Exactly. The inner tie rod balls go farther inboard...thus forcing you to make the rods longer. If you can't recall, then I would assume you haven't had problems.

[Buff]

Well guys....basically what the optional ackerman does, is literally makes the outside tire turn in further. The steering block on the inside tire (while turning) at full lock will stop against the caster block....thus this part doesn't change with either ackerman setting. The OUTTER tire/steering block with the "optional" setting makes the tire turn in further giving the more aggressive feel. As we know, the outside tire/steering block doesn't come close to full lock, so there's obvious more room to get more throw through using the optional setting.

This does require that you lengthen the steering tie rods a bit, as the bellcrank ball joint is move in one hole further. The center one-piece ball cup link on the bellcranks is moved back towards the bellcrank posts in the optional holes which you'll see.

If you're worried that the ball cups on the new steering rods may come out from being extended, be sure that each ball cup is spaced the exact amount of space on the threads. If you're still worried about them coming out, maybe a set of RPM ball cups will do the trick, but when I ran the optional ackerman setting before, I didn't have a problem with the stock cups.....just be sure your servo-saver in the bellcranks is set properly.

Yes, I would definately go with running the 25 degree caster blocks as they are pretty much the standard in racing.

30 degree caster blocks give you more intial turn-in, but give up as soon as the suspension re-extends (rebounds) or while you get back on power. If the car is not diving, it won't turn near as well because of the extreme angle of camber via the caster blocks, making the tire contact area much smaller.

The 25's will help keep the front tires more upright and flatter through the turns giving you better steering (more consistency also).

If more steering is still needed, try running the longer camber link in the front (inside hole on the shock tower). This will mostly give you more on-power steering through the middle of the corner and coming out. The shorter stock hole will give you more initial turn-in. If you still need more steering going into the turn, try moving the top of the shocks in on the tower (the inside hole). Maybe add some more weight to the bulkhead to keep the nose down. I run normally about an ounce of weight in the bulkhead. Fine-tune with 1/4 ounch lead weights to get the desired affect. Have you changed springs? Stiffer give you more steering through and coming out, and softer ones give you more turn-in.

Make only one change at a time then run your car, or else you won't know which change made your car better or worse.

Good luck.....:D

[kilrbzz]

Is this optional setting more for an advanced racer? I am not an expert driver by any means nor am I a novice. I also lack some steering going into the turns on a very rough track. I also noticed on almost all the setups on AE's site use the regular setting. Buff, you said "when you used it" Is there a reason you no longer use it? Or should I say what is the drawback to it? I also am ordering some 25 blocks. Thanks for all the input it is great!

[adam lancia]

i just looked at my car and i have the rpm ball cups with the standard length turnbuckles. sorry for any confusion. the only thing with the rpm cups is that they rub against the drag link. i am using a thinner ballcup for this reason. it looks kind of hack but it doesn't rub!

kilrbzz: give the 25 degrees a try. i think you will find that you won;t have to fight it through the corner as much. that coupled with the optional ackerman makes the buggy track really well. i know the manual says the optional ackerman position is for experienced racers but i experimented with it the 2nd week i had tha car. give it a try and if you don't like it, change it back. at least you will know.

have fun,

adam

[kilrbzz]

Adam- thanks for the reply. I will give it a shot! Maybe the LHS will have the 25 blocks today!

I got some light outdrives from Tower made by HG. There terrible after two runs they started to deteriorate! Tower is not responsible and HG has a terrible customer service just from our phone conversations. I sent them back but all they will do is send new ones. Just wanted to let everyone know, don't get them! Hey Louis you get yours from TiRacing yet?

[Buff]

kilrbzz......no, the optional steering isn't just for the "advanced racer". Just consider it another setup option. There's other things you can do to get more steering, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's for experts only. Do whatever is right for you.

Yes, I have tried the optional ackerman, however, I find it to be a bit inconsistent, and at times makes the car unstable. I've even noticed that in some conditions, it doesn't really help at all. Almost none of us team drivers run the optional. My opinion is stay with the stock steering and change more of the suspension/tire setups. The correct tire/foam combo can make a worlds difference when preparing for a track. It's the very first thing you want to do when getting to the track....immediately find out what tires/foams are working, because you can always start out with a basic car setup that will work on just about any track. After you've figured out the correct tires, then fine-tune your suspension to get "dialed in". You will positively like the 25 degree caster blocks much better than the 30's. This may be all you need to correct the problem you're having. Almost every racer I've seen run the 30 blocks then switch to 25's, they say it was a tremendous difference....for the better. If your car is pushing going in, try the setups I mentioned in my previous post.

Again, it is very important that you change only one thing at a time. If you go and change 3,4, or 5 things at a time, you won't know which change made the car better or worse. This is a mistake commonly made among racers without a lot of experience.

Have you tried using different brake parameters? Maybe dial in a little coastbrake to get the car to turn in a little better entering the turn.....you can also go into the turn a little bit harder.

I would stay away from aluminum outdrives for offroad.....I think everybody's tried them with absolutely NO LUCK. Not worth the hastle nor money. They're just not strong enough to handle the rigors and abuse of offroad.

[aspiringrcracer710]

You guys think that they will make a B3 RTR or maybe a B4 RTR (I know that the B4 hasnt come out yet).


Just a thought

[aeb3man_44]

don't know, don't care, I personally think this hobby(for me) is all about actually building the kit, not having a prebuilt Profressional r/c car

[Tawn Van Sullis]

Pic of my b3 during race (http://www.skoffroad.com/yorkton/IMG_3017.JPG) :D

[adam lancia]

tawn : nice pic!

does anyone run a p2k in their buggy? i've having one hell of a time gearing the thing. i run on a short track but it still runs out of steam half way down the straight. i've tried a bunch of brush/spring combo's and gearing from 18/78 to 22/81 and nothing seems to work. i'm stumped. you guys have any ideas?? thanks,

adam

[Buff]

aeb3man......ever stop to think you might not be the only one who wants a particular type of car? Just about every "newbie" that thinks about getting started in r/c, would rather buy a prebuilt something or other, because many people are rather intimidated by the parts or complexities of the car. They think you have to be some kind of brainy or mechanic to put one together, so they take easy route and buy one prebuilt. There's nothing wrong with that. If it breaks, they must figure out how to fix it. Eventually they will probably get the nerve to build their next r/c themselves after they find out that they're not all that complicated. What I'm saying is, don't diss somebody for what they want, just because they're not you.

Everybody has different budgets, skill levels, knowledge and time to use in r/c. Maybe stop to think that maybe the reason isn't necessarily that they are intimidated to build a kit, but that they just don't want to waste several hours to get on the track. With RTR, they can get on the track in minutes.

Different strokes, for different folks....;) :D

[Railman]

Hey Buff!,
I just thought I'd add my $.02 on the shock piston thing. The problem with swapping Assoc with Losi pistons is that they are designed different in several ways. The Assoc body has a .370 bore, where as the Losi body has a .375" bore. Also the Losi piston is .365", where as the Assoc piston is .355". The result is when you put a Losi piston in an Assoc. shock, the perimeter vent area is reduced dramatically. By design, Assoc shocks have more perimeter vent area than Losi shocks, by a substantial amount. Thats why they only have two holes in them. With 3 holes, they'd have to be way small to keep things near equal. I actually made up a spread sheet on the two shocks about 4 years ago, but never did anything more than analyze why they act different.
Also, Assoc shock pistons have a taper to their perimeter, & when turned with the bigger side upward, they have more compression dampning than rebound (extension). Losi shocks have equal dampning both directions , but seem to have an edge on being smoother due to their rounded edge, vs Assoc sharp edges. I Think that's why Assoc went the extra step in going to teflon lined bores. In the end, when you caculate the total vent areas of the two companies shocks:
Assoc #1 = Losi #54
Assoc #2 = Losi #55
Assoc #3 = Losi #56
From my spreadsheet numbers these are very close comparisons (little differance).
It also really surprised me how small of a range the two overlapped. But having said that, Assoc cars/buggies, almost always run the same shock oils (30 to 35), where as Losi oil weights are all over the place.
Personally, I think that Losi shocks are smoother, but that maybe Assoc shocks have a bit of an edge in having more compression dampning. Losi springs are also a bigger diameter, resulting in virtually no drag on the exterior of the shock body. Anyway, that's enough for now...seeya!
Joe

BTW Buff, Thanks for hangin around here. We need more pros input!:cool:

[Buff]

Railman.....yeah, I knew the pistons/shock bodies were of a different size. I've tried using Losi pistons and just don't like them. Neither have anybody I know has had any luck with them either. Yeah, there are definate advantages to AE shocks, and there are advantages to Losi shocks. Interesting tech info you have there though. You know, as much as the Losi shocks seem to be smoother than the AE shocks, the AE shocks work just as well as the Losi shocks. Sometimes the springs do rub the bodies, and also feel gritty at times, but they still keep on tickin'.....

No problem throwin' in a little info here and there.....I enjoy it.....:D

[Tawn Van Sullis]

Assoc shock pistons have a taper to their perimeter, & when turned with the bigger side upward, they have more compression dampning than rebound
Really? I never knew that. Upright is the number face up right? That could be really useful. Is there any other ways to get different compression vs. rebound dampening?

[aeb3man_44]

heres a color pic of my ftb3

[Buff]

Railman...I was just curious by the way.....you said..

"Also, Assoc shock pistons have a taper to their perimeter, & when turned with the bigger side upward, they have more compression dampning than rebound (extension). Losi shocks have equal dampning both directions , but seem to have an edge on being smoother due to their rounded edge, vs Assoc sharp edges. "

What exactly do you mean by a "taper to their perimeter"?....and...."....when turned with the bigger side upward, they have more compression.....":confused:

At first I was thinking you were referring to the outter edges on top and bottom of the piston. Both from which I know are very sharp edges being the same. Then I thought maybe you were referring to the holes in the pistons. Your point possibly being that the hole on one side of the piston is larger than the other side. Just a guess. I wasn't quite grasping what you were talking about.

Take it easy...:D

[Railman]

Buff,
After measuring just now, the side with the number on it is about .004" larger in diameter than the opposite side. I didn't realize this untill another Assoc sponsored guy told me. He used to come to Full Throttle fairly often too. I think his name was Jared Scott, but it's been so long, I couild be wrong. He also gave me the same explanatiuon about what the reason for this was. It's possible the real reason is for easier manufacturting (mold release), but the result is the same.
Another way to get the same effect is to use tapered piston vent holes. The big side will pass oil more easily than the small side.
Anyway, from all I've read & heard, thats is how it works, & it makes sense to me. Waddayou think?;)
Joe

[Buff]

Joe.....I'm still not understanding what you mean by, "tapered piston vent holes" and the bigger side and smaller side.

Are you referring to the holes themselves in the piston? On the number side, the hole's bigger, and on the opposite side, the same hole is smaller. Is this what you're trying to explain?

[Buff]

If that's the case, then it wouldn't matte which way the piston is installed because the oil still has to pass through the piston and through the smaller opening the same.

[Railman]

Buff,
I don't think that Assoc. piston holes are tapered, but the outside of the piston is by about .003->.004". I was just saying that doing tapered vent holes is another way to change the piston to achieve the effect of having different compression vs rebound dampning. I hope that reads better!
Joe

[Railman]

Buff,
Are the holes bigger on the number side than the other side?
Joe

[Railman]

Buff,
"If that's the case, then it wouldn't matter which way the piston is installed because the oil still has to pass through the piston and through the smaller opening the same."

I thought the same thing, but was convinced by Scott that it did. I also read through a thread on the Trinity site regarding the same subject. John Stanahan explained how it worked, but I doubt the thread is still there. It's a cryin shame how the good threads usually don't live long there.
BTW do I have the right name...Jared Scott? He was the one that convinced Jason Ladow to switch to Assoc for a while.
Joe

[adam lancia]

railman and buff:

cool info. i had no idea of the pistons were direction-specific. gives a few tuning options. keep up the info, i love stuff like this!!!!

adam

[Nexus]

just finished with this B3...runs great with a Trinity Monster Stock...just need to gear them lower since the Monster runs such high RPMs.

http://www.importgear.com/images/RC10B3.jpg

Nexus

[Buff]

Railman....I'll be honest, I'm thinking that not really anything is actually tapered on the AE pistons at all. If there is some kind of tapering, it's not enough to see with the naked eye, thus more than likely is not going to affect the dampening throughout shock travel, or was probably not done from the factory with a purpose of changing how the shock operates. However, I was going to call Cliff today anyway, so I'll check that with him. I just figure with these r/c cars, if you you can't see it, it's probably not going to be significant enough to change your car in an obvious way.

Then again, what do I know?:p :D

[4star]

Originally posted by Nexus
just finished with this B3...runs great with a Trinity Monster Stock...just need to gear them lower since the Monster runs such high RPMs.

http://www.importgear.com/images/RC10B3.jpg

Nexus


nice man :D

[adam lancia]

nexus: looks good man! i run a monster stock as well and i have it geared 16/87. it sounds a little low and it might just be my motor, but the thing is freaking fast! let us know if you need any set up help,

adam

[Tawn Van Sullis]

:eek: 16/87! Ya that does sound low. Are you sure you didn't mean 16/81?

[adam lancia]

yup, 16/87! i had been running it at 18/84 and just for poops and giggles, i tried 16/87.....purely on a whim. well it worked amazingly. i was shocked not to mention the track owner. gotta experiment,

adam

[Nexus]

oh man.

i think my B3 is geared way to high...i had a 23/81 in it last night....wasn't that impressed with the acceleration except at full top speed.

i think the lowest pinion i have is a 19 or 20...should i try one of those?

Nexus

[adam lancia]

how hot was the motor after a full battery pack was through it? i would definitely run the 19 tooth pinion and maybe invest in a few more smaller than that. do you have a larger spur gear? using that with the smaller pinion will probably make a big difference. i think the biggest you can go is a 90 tooth spur but an 87 will give you more than enough gearing flexibility. keep in mind i am running my buggy on a short track that is pretty tight so you may not have to go as low as i have with mine. experiment...make 1 change at a time, drive 3 or 4 laps and then make more changes to see what results you get. if you get bad results, write them down so you know not to do it again. if the results are good, write them down so you don't forget for next time. hope this helps a little,

adam

[Nexus]

i didn't remember to check the motor temp after i ran it....i only got about 2 runs then spent alot of time dialing-in my XXXT.


anyway...i don't have any other spur gears but do have 19 - 23T pinions.

the track i run at has a longer straight and not super tight in the infield.

eventually i will grab more spurs...

but for now i think after reading your post maybe with the stock 81T spur...then 20T pinion would be the way to go...sound about right?

thanks...i'll test it on Sat.

Nexus

[Buff]

Ok guys.....just to be sure things are straightened out.....for B3 gearing, don't go over or under an 81 spur to 83. The 81 was picked specifically for the buggy because of the smaller tires. For the T3, stick with an 87 or 90 spur. As far as gearing with pinions, it all depends on what motors you're running. If a motor has many rpm's but is low on torque, then keep it geared down a bit. I wouldn't go under a 18 or 19 pinion on a buggy. For a truck, maybe 16 and up....again, depending on motor---stock or mod.

A general way to check if a motor is too hot is to put your finger on the motor and check to see if you can keep it on for 3 or more seconds. It's too hot or overgeared if you can't keep your finger on it for that amount of time. You can actually undergear also believe it or not....if a motor tops out the rpm range for too long of a period, it can draw many amps from the high revs and cause excessive heat and do the same thing as overgearing.

Adam, about what you were saying about keeping notes, and to make changes one at a time.....I've already mentioned that stuff in detail in this thread.....:p :D

[Buff]

Nexus.....that sounds a bit closer with the 81/20 combo. This would also depend on what stocker you're running. Some stockers have a higher end, while others have more bottom end, and you need to gear accordingly to get the most power out of the motor. Good luck!

BTW:....nice buggy!:cool:

[Nexus]

buff: i'm running the new Trinity Monster Stock...people say it's a higher RPM motor...

Nexus

[adam lancia]

hey buff,

i'm curious about something. why does AE list their suggested gear ratios for modifieds with an 87 tooth spur in the B3 manual? i wondered whether or not they desinged the tranny to use a specific spur gear.....i've been trying to find the "perfect" gearing for all of my stock motors in my B3 and my 10T and have tried a lot of stuff. the only reason i don't use the 81 tooth spur with the monster is because i worry about the concentricity of the really small pinions. i'm not sure if this is a legitimate concern or not but it's in my head for some reason. let me know what you think. thanks,

adam

[Nexus]

i thought i read somewhere on AE's site that some listed or printed gear ratios are wrong.

and what they have listed on their website is correct.

"http://www.teamassociated.com/racerhub/other/gearing.htm"

"Some B3 manuals have incorrect gear ratios. You should correct your copy according to the chart below." from AE website.


Nexus

[adam lancia]

thanks nexus! i didn't know about that,

adam

[pudder]

Originally posted by adam lancia
hey buff,

i'm curious about something. why does AE list their suggested gear ratios for modifieds with an 87 tooth spur in the B3 manual? i wondered whether or not they desinged the tranny to use a specific spur gear.....i've been trying to find the "perfect" gearing for all of my stock motors in my B3 and my 10T and have tried a lot of stuff. the only reason i don't use the 81 tooth spur with the monster is because i worry about the concentricity of the really small pinions. i'm not sure if this is a legitimate concern or not but it's in my head for some reason. let me know what you think. thanks,

adam

They might list it with the 87 tooth spur because having the larger spur is like having a smaller pinion, essentially gearing down. To tell you the truth, I don't know that answer.

[Buff]

Well, there you have it....apparently a mis-print....which they seemed to have corrected on their website like Nexus said.

Yes, the B3 and T3 share both the exact same tranny (2.4:1)...however, the specific spurs are needed for each (87 for truck and 81 for buggy) because of one simple reason. Size of their tires...and not to mention, the heavier weight of the truck. Truck tires are obvious much heavier making them more difficult to turn.....this is why the suggested spurs are needed in order to get the correct maximum balance of power to speed ratio.

The only reason (just in my personal opinion and most other team drivers) to change to a different spur than what's suggested in each vehicle's manual, is to change how the car/truck drives. You can actually change how your car/truck handles just by gears. If you run a larger spur than the stock one, you will end up moving the motor back further away from the rear end of the car which will give you less traction and more steering.

The weight of the motor is pushed back further by the larger spur and takes the weight off of the rear suspension....thus taking away a little traction. This is one of the reasons AE has designed the new B4 with the motor mounted further forward into the car. Notice that the XXX cars were done this way also....for the same reason.

[adam lancia]

thanks buff! i forgot about the handling dynamics of bigger/smaller spurs. i'll keep it in mind though.

was there any conclusion about whether associated shock pistons have slightly different damping rates by having the number up or down?i sort of got lost in the conversation. thanks again,

adam

[Tawn Van Sullis]

here (http://www.rpmrcproducts.com/faq/pistons.htm ) is a link to RPM's 2 way pistons. Has anyone used them before?

[pudder]

My friend had them in his truck. T3 I dont like that they are hard to get out.

[Railman]

Quote: "If you run a larger spur than the stock one, you will end up moving the motor back further away from the rear end of the car which will give you less traction and more steering.

The weight of the motor is pushed back further by the larger spur and takes the weight off of the rear suspension....thus taking away a little traction."

Buff, maybe you want to re-write this?
Just to make my point...if you could move the motor back far enough (theoretically), the front wheels would lift off the ground!
Not dissin, just trying to keep it staight.;)
Joe

[psycho02]

Buff is right railman, He is talking about steering coming out of a corner. The weight of the motor will act like a pendulum if moved too far back and it will "swing" the rear end coming out of a corner giving too much steering on exit.

[Railman]

Psycho2,
Im well aware of the swing effect, but thats not the same as increased front traction, & moving it back definately increases the amount of weight on the rear wheels, which = more rear traction.
It's results in a different driving style...more of a pivot, than driving through a turn.

The trend in most newer car designs is to canteliver less, & keep the weight more centered in the car. I believe this trend started when Kinwald started running a 2.60 tranny in His XX. If I remember right he ran a 78 spur to move the motor all the way forward in that car. I actually ran one set up the same way. The XXX ended up with the motor moved forward, & I believe the B4 has moved the motor forward as well. The end result lets you place the batt farther to the rear, resulting in a more centered mass, which will allow the car to rotate easier.
Thanks for the input, & of course my opinion is still suject for debate. ;)
Joe

[psycho02]

Yeah your on it. It is a different driving style. It all depends if you want to turn the car from the front or the rear end thats all. I personally like my cars to be twitchy but on rails which I have always been able to achieve. Also "tucking" the motor into the rear is the best way to go. in my experience.

[adam lancia]

hey guys,

i ran 1/2 an oz of weight in my bulkhead today and the car had very little traction out of corners. do you compensate for the weight by using a heavier front spring or just raising the ride height or seomthing else? i ran green fronts and black rears with bones (rear) and arms (front) sitting 2mm below level. as for tires, i was using supersquares (M3) and silver four ribs. any advice would be great. thanks guys,

adam

[psycho02]

you need a stiffer front spring. Also this setup with weight in the front is really only good on very high bite tracks.

[adam lancia]

aaahhhhhh...now i see! the track wasn't high-bite so that would explain the lack of traction. thanks psycho, i'll keep it in mind for next week (track near chi-town),

adam

[psycho02]

what kind of track is it? In michigan most of our tracks are low bite. maybe I can help

[adam lancia]

it's not that i'm struggling with set up, i saw that some of the team guys were running weight in the bulkhead so i thought i'd try and see what happened. it's a tight, short yellow clay track in Illinois. not many jumps and it's fairly fast for it's size. it gets bumpy as hell though! that sucks sometimes. on my rear arms, i drilled an extra hole for the lower shock mount to move it closer to the hub carrier and i kind of like it. it seems to give a little more roll resistance coming out of turns.....almost lets you control the slide a little easier. anyways, i'm rambling cause it's late and i have a 10 hour drive tomorrow. thanks for the help...later,

adam

[Nexus]

"short yellow clay track in Illinois..."

what track is this adam? i live in Illinois.


Buff: i tried out the 20/81 in my B3 with the Monster stock....worked out great! yesterday i have the comm cut, new red/green springs, and new brushes put in...so can't wait to see if that got me more power....it's basically set up like a Monster Pro motor.


Nexus

[adam lancia]

nexus:

the track is in tremont, about a half hour east of peoria. i go to school in champaign at the U of I and this is the closest legitimate track to me. it's indoor offroad. really well run, good hobbyshop and really cool people. we only run stock cause the track isn't big enough to run mod. i'm going up to leisure hours hobbies in joliet on saturday to check it out and let my mod's breathe a little. that should be fun!! oh yeah, the name of the track is primetime hobbies run by don davis. they have a website too, race schedules and stuff. later,

adam

hey buff: i remember a thread a while ago about a new indoor offroad track opening up in indianapolis, is that where you race or do you know of it? it looked pretty impressive.

[pudder]

Adam, have you heard of the new Canadian RC site called Canuck offroad? You should join, it is pretty cool as we are getting new members a lot. www.canuckoffroad.com

[Nexus]

ah...i heard about that track...it's pretty far from me here in chicago.

i don't think i'll make it to Leisure on Sat...but if not that day definitely on Sunday...which seems more poplular if you want to race.

we went last Sat. and it wasn't that crowded and there were no races that night...not enough entries.


i think we're planning to go on sun....which will be our first race! OH MAN CAN'T WAIT.


Nexus

[Buff]

Railman.....ok, think about it this way.....say you theoretically move the motor a full foot behind the motor.....sure, you're going to do some serious wheelies, but that doesn't mean that you're necessarily going to get great traction because the motor isn't centered more directly over top of the rear tires. The idea here isn't to get wheelies, it's traction, yet still have good consistent steering. This is why Losi did this to their car also. Cliff's idea of the B4 was to try and center everything towards the center of the car, keeping it all very low at the same time, for optimum balance and a very low CG. This all adds up to a faster reacting car and BALANCED car.

I wouldn't think that two of the brainiest r/c car engineers in the world (Gil Losi jr. and Cliff Lett among many others who contribute lots of input) would do this if it didn't work in just that way.

Adam Lancia.....yes, you definately may have to compensate for the added weight by adjusting the ride height. Not necessarily changing your springs, just where you have them set. By the way, what kind of track are you running on and what shock setups/camber/shock angles are you trying??? By the sound of it, the track sounds loose or rough because of the soft springs and silver compound tires.....however, you were running super squares, which tells me the track is hard packed. I'm just confused by your setup...

If your car was loose coming out of the corners, try raising your ride height in the front. The weight in the bulkhead was obviously doing it's job! I don't recommend running the black springs in the rear....they're just too soft, even on slick tracks. You can actually lose some traction by running these springs because your car can squat almost too much, reducing the tire contact patch due to the increased camber....especially if your ride height is lower than normal. If you're needing more traction coming out of the corner still, try running more anti-squat.....(Don't run the washer beneath the rear arm blocks.) Run the 3-3 blocks.

After further reading more posts, I see you said that your track is low-bite......if so, then why the super squares??? These tires were designed for high bite very hard-packed tracks. Try maybe tapers, squares, or X-2000's.

Nexus.....right on....good to hear it worked.

Adam, I don't know much about the track in Indianapolis right now, but I plan on checking it out sometime soon or when they get a schedule going. I normally race at CRCRC in Columbus Ohio during the winter. During the summer when CRCRC is closed, I go to Joe's in Lynn, Indiana and I like the track that's built next to a motocross track in Cincinatti called Dirt Country (dcrcr.com) I've not been racing too much here lately (not by choice), but am working on getting moving again....especially to CRCRC.

[adam lancia]

hey buff:

my setup is as follows.

front
30wt, #1, green springs, 2 thin limiters inside shock, camber link in "A" position, shock mount C on tower, G on arm, -2 degrees camber, arms 2mm below level
rear
20 wt, #1, black springs, 1 thin limiter inside shock, long camber link (B and H), shock mount F on tower, and i have drilled anther hole next to the "C" hole on the rear arms closer to the hub, this is where i have mounted the shock on the arm, 3 degrees toe in, 1.5 degrees anti squat, -1 degree of camber, short wheelbase, and the bones are sitting about 2mm below level.

the track gets a dry blue groove but it doesn't have great lateral traction. what i mean is when the car gets sideways at all, it just spins, there's no in between. accelerating straight is fine, lots of traction there. outside the groove there are tiny dirt pebbles and traction really doesn't exist once you get out there. it's either straight traction or spin out under power. there are also a lot of potholes coming out of corners which is why i am running less anti squat and the black springs. the antisquat at 1.5 degrees seemed to help coming out of corners because of the potholes. i took the weight out of the bulkhead. i'm racing tonight so if you have any suggestions, they are welcome. thanks buff, i appreciate it,

adam

[Buff]

Adam.....by the sounds of your track....this is my opinionated setup as to where I would start, then fine tune from.

Front: #2's w/ 30 wt., no limiting, green springs, middle hole on tower, centered kingpin, outside camber on tower, inside hole on arm, ride height-arms level, 2 degree negative camber, standard ackerman, 0-1/2 weight in bulkhead, 25 degree caster blocks.

Rear: #1's w/ 30 wt., no limiting, silver or green springs (forget the black springs with 20 wt.!!), bulkhead camber link on "Skip's camber mod" .....{Skipgear.com** (stock hole) and inside on hub, 2-2 1/2 degrees negative camber, 3-3 block, CVD's level, hubs forward.

Try this and let me know what happens. I use this as a base for most places and it works awesome...yes, it is fairly close to a stock setup, but it works. Good luck.

[psycho02]

That is pretty close to what I would do with that car on that track also. My setup would be a little different but it is fine tuned for me. But that is real close to mine. I definitely agree about ditching the black springs. I have never had black springs work well for me anywhere.

[adam lancia]

cool, thanks guys! i'll be abke to give it a try in 2 weeks when i go and race again. i appreciate it,

adam

[DLF]

Just a quick question for you other B3 people. Who here dials a small amount of brake into neutral on high-bite tracks? It's something I've never done and have decided to try and get used to the last few weeks.

[adam lancia]

i've never tried it because my track isn't high bite, sorta medium to low. let us know how it goes,

adam

[DLF]

I tired it today. It's definatly something to get used to.

However, I did something to my B3 and found today that it was the biggest improvment I've done yet. My problem was I lacked steering entering a corner. So, I drilled an extra hole above the outside most hole in the shocktower and mounted my upper rod there...effectively altering the roll center of the car. Made a substantial difference.

[LouisB]

How will using the 25 deg. castor blocks change the bump/jump handling?
I've just put them on my B3, along with shiny CVD bones:) to try out at the race on Sunday.
Thanks

[LouisB]

OK, whatever the 25 deg. blocks did it worked! I've never had my B3 go so well:D
I Qualified 3rd in the A and came 2nd, I probably would have won (the winner said so too) if I hadn't been held up by inconsiderate traffic.
The car just seemed to go where I wanted it to, I managed to go all 5 mins without a crash, which is unusual for me;)

[adam lancia]

good stuff louis!! it's a dramatic difference but easy to get used to. i tried the 25 degree blocks 2 years ago and haven't use the 30's since. congrats on the lack of crashing.

adam

[pudder]

Good job Louis! Do you guys think the caster blocks might do the same for my T3?

I don't think I have ever had many races where I didn't haved to be marshaled. Stupid traffic eh, usually I just get mad and take someone lapped out if they won't move, but it usually messes me up worse. :)

[adam lancia]

i'm not sure how the 25 degree block will effect your truck but give them a try and see what they do. i guess in thoery they will give you more steering coming into the corner and through the middle of the corner but will take away a little steering coming out of the corner.

adam

[pudder]

Hmm. Well if I get a few bucks sticking around sometime I'll try them. Right now I am still worying about finding an ESC before racing starts. I have also never tried my T3 on carpet track before, so it should be a cool new experience. I know at offroad this summer I could have used a bit more turning.

[LouisB]

Thanks guys:)
I think it was the extra turn in that helped most, there was a really tight switch-back turn and everyone was understeering so they had to slow down loads, all except me:D

Yeah I'm working on the crashing thing, once I can do the full 8 mins of 1/12th without a crash I'll be happy;)
Even with a couple of crashes I managed to go from 3rd on the A-main grid to 2nd, a bit of weird deja-vu don't you think? I wonder what will happen with my XXX-S on sunday:)

Tip: If you want to improve your driving take up 1/12th too. They're quite cheap, I got my Corally 3rd hand for roughly $50 including motor!

[psycho02]

You see now thats wierd because I was always told and I have read that the 25 degree blocks were supposed to take out some turn in and give you more mid turn and exit steering. But I have always felt like my car turned IN better with the 25 degree blocks.
All this time I just thought I was'nt feeling the car right.

[LouisB]

With my touring car when I reduce the caster I get more turn in so I s'pose it's the same with a buggy.

[psycho02]

I agree thats what I feel on the car but every bit of tuning info that I have heard or read for off-road cars is that with the 30 degree blocks you get more turn in but less mid and exit and with 25 degree blocks supposedly you get a little less turn in but more mid and exit.

[DLF]

I'd have to agree whith you as well, psycho. But, I'm still gunna try 25 blocks anyway.

Plus, the hole drilling I did in the shock tower works guys. I'm running 30 blocks and that mod made a huge difference. I talked a guy into trying it yesterday during a club race and he too says it made a huge difference. You guys try it and you'll see what I mean. If it doesn't work, just put it back in the old hole. It won't hurt anything. I can post a pic if someone would like to see.

[Tawn Van Sullis]

The only reason they say more caster gives more turn in is becuase when the wheels turn the tilting of the wheels moves the front end left and right. It doesn't give any more traction going in. The extra caster is probably only noticable for a split second at turn in.

[psycho02]

Yeah well I can tell you 25 degrees is way better on the car. As far as the camber hole r u talking about the hole that is out further on the tower. I have not tried that one yet but I am going to.

[DLF]

Sorry about all the dirt...she hasn't been cleaned yet. The pic will explain it I think.

[psycho02]

WHOA I have not seen anything like that before. I have seen the whole closer to the outside of the shock tower in line with the other 2 holes but have not seen that before. What does that do for the car? and what conditions is that best for?


Also what size drill bit did you use and what is the mesurement from that hole to the one below it?

[adam lancia]

you know if you just look at the words, you can take it right out of context and good taste and throw it into the gutter.....where my mind spends most of the day wandering. yes, i am a male college student, hence the wandering mind.

back on topoic...when you said the outside hole on the shock tower, i thought you meant the third one that the newer B3 shock towers have. thanks for the pic, i might try that.

adam

[DLF]

The bit is a 7/64. The hole is approximatly .20" directly above the outer hole.

The idea is that by raising the inner mount point of the rod, you effectivly lower the front roll center of the car. At least, that's what I've learned. I've found that it makes the car push less entering the corner in high-bite situations. I haven't yet tested it on a low-bite track, but I hope to soon. Try it. It can't hurt.

[pudder]

Ohh, this would be good to try on my T3. I race the truck on both carpet and loose dirt.

I have to say you guys do experiment a lot more with little adjustments than the guys in T3 forum, and good thing because I just might pick up a few things from you guys.

Have any of you tried making 3 hole rear shock mounts for the rear suspension arms?

I made some at the end of offroad season, havent tried them out yet though. :)

[adam lancia]

i've been using a third hole next to the outer one on the rear arms and it seems to mellow out the rear end a bit. i run on a medium to low bit track and it seems a little easier to control.

adam

[adam lancia]

where is everybody? i haven't raced in a few weeks due to school....anyone else having the fun i don't have time for?? i was just tinkering around with my buggy and noticed an abnormal amount of bump steer, it toes way way out under compression...anyone else have this? i always thought there was a minimal or nonexistent amount of bump steer with the B3....am i wrong? thanks.

pudder: did you try the third hole in the rear arms yet?

buff: where are you?

DLF: any luck testing the new front camber link position on a low bite track?

adam

[DLF]

Adam-Not yet. We've been getting allot of rain here in the south the last few weeks so our track hasn't really dried out yet.

Also, I read that with 30 degree blocks you should run a small spacer under the outside pivot ball to get rid of bump steer. However, it doesn't seem to be required when running 25 degree blocks.

[LouisB]

Rain doesn't stop our club from racing:eek: It's been a mud bath for the last month! After the last 3 races I've had to completely strip down my B3 and clean it, including every bearing, shocks, the motor and diff. Fortunately I haven't had any busted bearings yet (almost everyone else has) but i clean them all anyway (motor spray + PTFE lube) It takes ages but it's worth it when your car is fast:)

You know it's bad when you can't tell if it's a buggy or a lump of earth, I'll have to post a pic next time (with over 1 cm of dried mud all over the chassis) ;)

Tip: If you're racing in the rain put velcro all the way round the body and plug the little hole in the chassis where the reciever wire goes. I forgot to do that last week and the whole right side inside the car was caked in mud, but my receiver was OK:)

[kilrbzz]

Hey Louis, what ever happened with the Ti outdrives? I've been thinking of ordering but not if you still havev't gotten yours.

We had a race last week that had a good deal of very wet muddy spots on the track from lots of rain. At first I went way out my way to avoid it hoping it would dry out. But after awhile I said heck with it. It was fun even if I was worried about my ESC. But nothing fried! I also velcro all my bodies just cause I hate body pins though. My car was caked up clay. Talk about a long cleaning session!

[Nexus]

decided to sell my B3 if anyone is interested...

not that many buggies racing around my track and also picked up a Factory Team TC3.

look in the buy/sell forum.


later.

Nexus

[adam lancia]

well glad to hear you're staying with AE. waiting for the B4 perhaps....??? i am, but not until the summer. probably a T4 too...hehehe, i get all giddy just thinking about it. good luck,

adam

[LouisB]

Originally posted by kilrbzz
Hey Louis, what ever happened with the Ti outdrives? I've been thinking of ordering but not if you still havev't gotten yours.


No, not yet. Ti racing first promised a free pinion after 1 month then the outdrives for free after 2 months but after then they decided to refund the money and cancel the order:mad:
They've stopped selling direct (probably because they are so slow and unhelpful) so I might order some from the new distributer (I'll post a link when I find out where u can get them from)
A friend had Ti drive shafts in his XX-4 and they wore out after about 5 races so I don't think outdrives would last very well at all:( If I find out anything new I'll let you know.

I might give them a call and try to get them for free as they PROMISED

[Nexus]

adamL:

yea trying to stay with AE...even though i have a MF XXXT also :P

once and if the T4 comes out i'll definitely buy one then have all AE vehicles.

Nexus

see ya on the TC3 threads :P

[pudder]

Louis- there is something you may be interested in. A few of the guys in the T3 thread have tried using inner bodies in their T3's, they reported that they work excellent and keep crap in the chassis to a minnimum.

Here are some quotes from there:

"Hehe, an hour or so ago I went swamp bogging with my T3

Got my paddle tires and everything, I was driving around in my 3 inch creek Of course, by the time I was done, everything was covered in mud and sopping wet Luckily the inner body prevented a lot of crap from going in, but hey, how can It now when your halfway submerged in water? It was fun My electronics still work too"

The inner body is actualy made out of a sign...


http://homepage.mac.com/pottymouth/P1010142.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/pottymouth/P1010144.jpg

Here is a link, even with a printable template for the design!

http://homepage.mac.com/pottymouth/t3_underbody/underbody.html

[pudder]

Adam- No, I haven't gotten around to trying out the 3 hole mounts, I am just waiting for racing to start, I don't drive my T3 otherwise really, plus my friend is borrowing my gearbox in the meantime... I just have to keep myself amused with my Stampede. :)

I will tell you guys how the mount worked, but I will be racing on a carpet track, totaly different from offroad buggy. :) Racing starts Jan 6 I think for me.

BTW: to secure the inner body to the chassis, put velcro around the bottom of it. :)

[LouisB]

The under body looks like a good idea for a T3, quite a few people at the track put Bandit bodies under the truck bodies on their rustlers to keep mud out:) But I think that when it's got velcro on the standard buggy body does the same job;)
I think I'll probably have to do some serious waterproofing b/c my next race is 3 days before Xmas (but it doesn't look like snowing over here, just rain)

[kilrbzz]

How did you know when it was time to rebuild? I've had my diff come loose twice recently. I ended up over tightening to finish the race day last week and it seemed to slow my car down. I bought a rebuild kit. What happens when you over tighten? I took it apart and there was black dirt or residue inside. Does this mean I was grinding? I do not use any black grease on the gears. Should I? The only lube I use is inside the diff. The spacers on both sides of the tiny steel balls had round grooves in each side touching the balls(around the diff screw). I assume this is a good indication its time but I wanted to see what everyone else did. Thanks

[LouisB]

I rebuild my diff when it starts to feel gritty when you turn the wheels. If there are grooves in the rings then i flip them, after the other side wears out I get replace them.

You should use black grease on the thrust bearing (tiny balls) and clear lube on the bigger diff balls.
Maybe your diff nut has stripped:confused: That would cause the diff to loosen.

[pudder]

... or the nylon in the nut could have worn out as well.

[Clod_Killer]

Man where's all of the B3 guys?

[adam lancia]

saving up some cash to go racing in a few weeks :)

adam

[pudder]

Racing for me starts in Jan 5'th. WooHoo!

[LouisB]

I came last in the A at the last race due to a really bad glitch that made my car get stuck in full throttle!
I got a GT7 for Christmas so it should be OK now (I was using a crappy Mtroniks one, and it was the problem)
On the upside I was the only person able to keep up with TQ in the heats:)

I also got a Ofna Hyper 7:D

My next race is on the 29th:) Touring not buggy though

[pudder]

Hey, look on the bright side Louis, it is better to be behind in the A then ahead in the B. THis summer when we had all of the mod guys race stock for one day, I dont know why, but I am good enough to run with the top 3 guys from the track. I was happy even though I got last in most of the races, but beats the heck of winning the B. :)

[MAXX4402]

HELLO jip2587

i liv in york and whanted to no if you whanted to meat at hobby stop in rock hill this saterday the 4th or next weakend. i hav a FTB3 that i bought 2 hand redy to run with a JR XR 3 (in good cundition) for $25 yes i sed $25. :)


maxx4402:D

[JIP2587]

hey maxx

me and a couple of my friends were thinkin we might go if it doesnt rain. Do you have a Aol s/n i could talk to you on?
By the way are you gonna race this season?

My aol s/n is the same as my sn on here if u wanna im me

thanks
James

[pudder]

Can I tag along too? ;)

[MAXX4402]

jip i do its RC180JK ILL PUT YOU ON MY BUDDY LIST OK.:)

IM PLANING ON DOING A LOT OF RACING THIS SESON . IF YOUR DOUN THER MY B3 BODY IS PAINTED DARK BLUE WITH YELLO STRIPS ON THE SIDE AND BLACK WINDOS AND A HOME MADE SKID/BUMPER AND MY RUSTY IS PAINTED CANDY BLUE WITH A GREEN RPM STICKERON THE HOOD.



YES PUDDER YOU CAN COME:D

[MAXX4402]

i was just wondering what every body though about my setup.
iv gotten a lot of info on here and the ae site and cumbind them .yesterday i whent to driv it on my litel track and it jumpd and sterd awsome.

well here gos

frunt
1.top of shock midel
2 bodem of shock in
3camber all the way in but not on the shock tower
4 one larg pre load spacer and one that is haf the sise of the other. on both sides
5 no waets in the frunt but do hav custom skid/bumper
6 losi silver compound ribs
7 30w oil and stock springs
rear
1top of shock midel
2 botem of shock outer
3 camber all the way in (on tern buckel and nuckil)
4 bow ties
5 30w oil and stock silver springs
batery place ment midel


could some body tell me if it is good.it works on my local track. iv never ben abel to tuen a car like this having a rustler and a e-maxx

[LouisB]

The set-up looks good, if you need any extra set-up help then just ask here.

[MAXX4402]

hey me and jip had pland to go to hobby stop today but he told me thet he calld them and thay sad it was muddy.but i whent aney way to get some parts .so when i got down there and got the parts put on my b3 i whent out to the track and it had drid up so i whent to put a 2400 pack in and whent over to the track to drive(iv never driven my b3 on a track)and i though to my self

OOOOOOO-----MMMYYYYY-----GGGGGGOOOOOODDDDDDD


iv never driven a car like this one (hold on let me chach my breth)

i dont now wether it was the set up or me but i lapt a t-maxx and he gave up on driven after that:p and i lapt a n- rustler a few times (and people im telling the truth) this one guy sad" hose driving that buggy??" i onle drove one battere but that was enuf.it was awsom.

[pudder]

Racin's pretty fun eh!

Yay, indoor starts tomorrow!

[AssociatedRacer]

Hey guys I just bought a B3. Yes, I was a losi guy, but i converted over, so just ignore the name. I was wondering if anyone has a good starting setup at Socal Raceway?

[LouisB]

If you can't find a set-up on the AE site then ask the racers at the track. The stock set-up is pretty good for most tracks and is a good base to work from.

I qualified 2nd in the A and after a nasty crash on a big jump I came 3rd. I'm pretty pleased because I'm only 1 point away from 3rd place in the championship:D

[pudder]

Wish me luck, carpet racing 2003 starts today. Racing my good T3! :)

[MAXX4402]

hey what motor should i get for stock class racing and how should i gear it????.the track that i race on is tietand has large back strataway. i whant a mortor that has tork but not to much.


also what body should i get the pro line or associated???

yesterday when i whent to the track thay didint hav the parts for my e-maxx like thay sed so thay gave me a new orenge antina post and that maches the color cristal im yousing :D so all i hav to do is get an orenge body:D

[MAXX4402]

iv notist that ther isint that much b3 pics so people post your pics
when i go to my gps house ill youse ther d cam and post my pics
:D

[kilrbzz]

MAX:

I use three different stock motors,

Reedy MVP 81/22-24 I use this on small tight tracks as it gives
me a ton of low end torque.

Trinity P2K2 81/23 This is a great comprimise motor for any type of track.

Trinity Green Machine 3 81/21-23 This is my large track motor. High RPM's that I can use in large sweeping turns. I've even used this on smaller tracks and geared as low as 19 with success.


I adjust the pinion accordinly if I need more down the straights or in the corners. Hope this helps.

Welcome aboard Team****Guy! Just curious but what convinced you to switch?


GL Pudder!

Nice Job Louis! Nothin to be ashamed. Start reeling those guys in!! Did you ever get those ti outdrives or anything from Ti Racing?

[LouisB]

Originally posted by kilrbzz
Did you ever get those ti outdrives or anything from Ti Racing?

I've spoken to a guy who works at Titanium Racing at the R/C Tech forums (http://www.rctech.net/forum/) and he says he will sort it out. In theory I'll be getting them for free. I might be lucky and get it sorted but I'm not holding my breath! (I might get a free pinion too)

[pudder]

Well, I did crappy in the first two races, my truck was so not dialed in, then the last race and the main I did fair, I had some bad crashes but the truck pulled through. I was pulling weelies, which is cool, but not good.

I ended up placing 3'rd in the A-main.


To the person who was asking about the stock motors:
Besides the Trinity ones, I would also reccomend the Reedy MVP. I use it, and like it better than any of the Trinity ones I have had in the past. It has very good speed, and decent torque so that I still can pull wheelies. The only thing is they like to be geared lower than other motors. :)

[JIP2587]

MVP works well at HobbyStop if thats the track your talkin about.....thats what i'm running and i couldn't be happier with it:)

[pudder]

I was talking about the Mid Canada RC Auto Racing track here in Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada. :)

[drumr racer]

Should I get a new FT B3 4 $100, or wait 4 the B4?

[pudder]

Where did you find one for 100$?

I like the fact that the B4 has all new stuff, but I don't have anything wrong with the B3 and T3. In fact, I'll probably buy an FT B3 when the B4 comes out since the B3 will go down in price. :)

[Mystracing]

Personally I'm getting the B4 as soon as possible. The much more adjustable rear roll center should make the car hook up much better in the rear. Most everyone who drives a B3 will turn better lap times with a B4 once some people figure out how to set them up because they won't have to contend with a loose rear end, or run lower traction front tires to compensate for it.

Also hopefully the motor being further forward will help eliminate the pack problem (or lack of pack, more correctly) in the rear making it jump better.

In a relatively short amount of time I really believe people of my skill level (been racing 18+ years) and below will be faster with a B4 than a B3. For someone like Mark Pavidias it might not make much difference, other than it will be harder for someone to loop the B4 than a B3 with a tap on the rear plate, like happened to him at the nationals.

At any rate I'm really looking forward too it. If not because of performance at least I will have something new. 6 years is a long time to run the same car with nothing but a different body, shock tower, and wheels in the whole time period.

[DLF]

You mentioned more rear traction in the rear. For me, the car has plenty if not too much rear traction in all cases except when the track is extreamly loose. In high bite condtions, I had a problem with the rear hooking up too much and thus not allowing the car to pivot. I fought a serious push entering a corner as a result. I was able to fix the problem by modifying the roll center in the front. I guess my point is that it seemed to me the car dosen;t have a loose rear problem.

However, a problem I do have is way too many B3 spare parts. It's actually gunna be somewhat painfull for me to go to the B4. Oh well...I'll manage. :D

[Mystracing]

What tires were you running? On our track a properly tuned XXX can run red wide body front tires with Holeshots on the back. On the same surface a B3 is extremely loose with that tire combination. To get hooked up without being loose people have to run M3 Radius ribs on a B3. The overall lap times are similar, but the XXX is much easier to control because of the extra side bite on both ends. Could be just the type of track we run on. It's doesn't have the tremendous traction of a blue groove even though it's hard packed clay. Even the best drivers in this region call our track a Losi track. I'm looking forward to that changing though.

It makes sense that you could compensate with the front roll center but the overall result of that is a twitchier car and still less sidebyte than the XXX.

[DLF]

The tire comparison you mentioned between the XXX and the B3 is pretty much the case on our track as well. When the track is wet and loomy, I run steps on the rear. This was actually a bit too much and thus cause the overbite condition I mentioned. The next tire would be studs. That's a little better, but still too much bite. Any other tire would either be too unpredictable or the track would clog the tire. These are the more common conditions on our track. Now if the track is allowed to dry and become dusty (not blue-gorved however), a small pinned soft tire works well. However, all in all, you still have to stay off the throttle becuase the rear is then very loose.

I guess to me the car isn't very linear in it's rear traction. It seems to go from too tight to too loose very quickly. Changing the roll center helped to loosen the car some, and yes, it is now a bit twitcher and aggresive. But, for me, it seems more predictable.

Hope that all made sense. :)

[Mystracing]

I do understand exactly what you mean, and agree. I just think it's going to be awesome to have a A-Team buggy with the rear sidebyte to run Reds on the front, and really believe the new buggy will give us just that.

Also with the greater range of adjustability it should also be possible to eliminate that fine line that's necessary in a setup to make the B3 awesome and give a more forgiving feel to the car.

[AssociatedRacer]

Hey do you guys know where I can pick up a b3 manual? I didnt get one with the b3(used)

[DLF]

Go to the Associated web site. You can actually donwload one PDF format frome them.

[AssociatedKing]

i have a B3 and I LOVE IT!!!! the only problem is that the CVD's keep on getting knocked out of place whenever i jump it or even just turn hard. i finally fixed the problem, but i was just wondering was this just my fault when i built it or have you guys had this problem too. also has anyone tried the Road Rage tires from Pro-Line?:D :D :D :D

[pudder]

I have Road Hawg II tires for my trucks. They are really good, and I'm sure they'd be the same for a buggy. They are basically the same tire.

[LouisB]

I use spacers in the rear shocks to stop the CVD fron coming out. You may need some depending on where your shocks are mounted.
I haven't tried the road rage tires but I had some road hawgs on my truck and they worked great.

[GA Maxx]

right i should be getting a B£ team soon, gonan run stock, indoor, i have great elecs for it already, gettign the team as its better than teh factory team (well chassis is), As craig drescher said, the ft chassis poor:)
wish me luck :)

[pudder]

I would rather buy the FT and just buy the composite chassis, you get a lot better stuff with the FT.

[GA Maxx]

im on a very very tight budget ive kinda spent $700 on a tourer and have just scrapped it and diotn wan na sell it, so ive gotta get 3 packs of batteries and a stock motor, do you think 2400's or 3000's? matched of course ;)