Losi XXX Forum v1.0

[rc10gt_bb]

Yes, I know that I'm copying Jace. But he didn't have a copyright on his great idea for a topic did he? http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif So post away guys!

[rc10gt_bb]

Oops! I meant 1.0. Steve, do you think you could change that for me?

[J mAn]

question about set-ups. How will changing the nomber of washers under the ball studs afect the perfomance of the car.

[SrSpeedy]

J-

I assume yo are refering to the ballstuds for the camber links on the front bulkhead. If so, that adjustment affects the roll center of the chassis.

By lowering the roll center, or removing washers, you will make the chassis more aggressive, and the car will have more turn-in or entry steering, with less exit steering.

Adding washers will also result in the opposite effects. Adding washers also will give the car a little bit more high speed steering, sort of like a slightly stiffer spring would.

See ya...

[stormperson]

by exit steering, does that mean on power? and turn in means off power?

[BadRacer]

Yeah thats what it means Storm. You go into a turn slow or on your brake and you exit the turn on the throttle. On my XXXT i have one washer under the ballstuds on the front........i still don't get the whole anti-squat thing, oh well ill figure it out sooner or later. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[SrSpeedy]

Storm-

Keep in mind, all cars will push somewhat onpower. There is only so much you can do to the front of the car to get more traction if only 10 - 15% of the cars weight is on that end. Most onpower steering comes from the rear end. To get more onpower steering, adjust the rear.


BRacer-

The Triple X built by the book has 0deg of Anti-Squat. By increasing that to 2deg, you will get more forward traction, less side bite, more off power steering, and the car will get a little more air off of big jumps. Another thing to consider is that less A/S is generally better in bumpier conditions.

I would start with 2deg on most tracks(no shims under pivot block)

The kit is built with 0deg, since that is what we ran most of the time on the Double X cars. Over a year later, we now know the Double and Triple X tune differently. That is why the Triple XT builds with 4deg A/S (shims in the front of pivot)

See ya...

[stormperson]

wait, to get 0 degrees anti swat, what do i have to do? leave it without any shims?

also what is push? is that like understeer? sorry, i know alot of terms, but thats one i never understood.

[SrSpeedy]

Shims in the rear to get 0deg A/S, no shims for 2deg, and shims in front to get 4deg.

Push is the same as understeer.

[stormperson]

thanks, also fyi, TL is coming out with a xxx kinwald, however my xxx and xxxt already have more hop ups then it...

but this is bad news, it means that the xxx's days are numbered.

[SrSpeedy]

The Francis Ed. Triple X will be kool indeed.

TeamLosi is pretty busy with the sedan right now. The Kinwald XX was out for nearly two year before the Triple dubuted.....keep that in mind...

See ya...

[J mAn]

hopefully it will be 2 years until xxxx

[rc10gt_bb]

What do you guys think about the XXX Spec?

[doublet]

Okay - - the xxx has 3 different mounting spots for the camber rods on the sides of the bulkhead. Is the inside or outside spot gonna give me more aggressive steering? And how do washers under the ball stud make a difference
?

[stormperson]

read the above posting to find that stuff out.

but the xxx isnt a bad idea, its actually considerablly more well featured then others in its price range, however they should of done bearing all around.

but otherwise they did a good job.

[SrSpeedy]

Lower roll center equals more aggressive steering. That would equate to moving the ballstud outward on the bulkhead.

Keep in mind, that you can only do so much to the front of the car, at some point you have to start dialing out some rear bite.

See ya....

[XXXER]

eeegads, i bet that KE XXX is gonna cost some bucks! I want the XXXT version(if they are making one) Sr, i believe when you say that the XX was out for 2 years before a replacement, do you mean the CR KE? Because i am almost positive that it was introduced in 94, that is the original.

the XXX's Days are not numbered, at least they had better not be LOL

[SirSpeedy]

Rut Rut!!

My old name back....Woooo Hoooo....Thanks Steve...

Yes, XXXer, I was refering the the Kinwald XX, BK won the Worlds in late '97, the car was released shortly after, and the XXX was released in late '99.

My guess is that a updated Triple is on the way...probably sometime after the Worlds in Oct.

I have heard some rumors around that the car is getting some changes to the rear end........

[stormperson]

well i feel thats where the car has problems, i do feel that the only problem with the car, is the rear area, due to the high amount of screws, and the tranny isnt as good as it could be, its just not as durable for some reason (and a 3 gear tranny cant differer that much from brand to brand)

or are they going to be doing some geometry try changes?

[Nairb]

One thing's for sure. Moving the lower shock locations in the rear is a pain, because the universals are in the way. It's true, there are LOADS of screws in the rear. That plate in the back has 11 holes in it. SHEISH!

Any hints, Sir?

[SirSpeedy]

Geometry. Nothing to do with holes or drivetrain.

What type of troubles are you having with the tranny?

[Oyster]

I've only busted an A-arm so far. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif Oops. But the tranny and suspension is awesome if you know how to dial it in, and build the shocks. Very awesome car. Has a lot of push, but more adjustments can be made.

- Jon

[stormperson]

i always have problems with it for the first 10 runs after i rebuild it. and its never that smooth, like i mean i cant just spin and and it continues to spin. but o well.

[Oyster]

As far as steering, I have to realize that I was at full speed on pavement, so I'll get to the steering. It has lots of steering, that's for sure.

As far as the tranny being smooth. I figured something out last night after I rebuilt the diff. There's three screws that hold the tranny together. Two run into the motor plate, one in the corner. Make sure the one in the corner (smaller) isn't too tight!! Turn the tranny while tightening all of them, you'll notice the gears get stiff if you tighten that smaller one too much. Back it off a little and spin the tranny... amazing difference. Hope this helps.

- Jon

[SirSpeedy]

Oyster-

What rear camber link postions are you using on the rear hub carriers and bulkhead? The Triple has TONS of steering! You may need to free up the rear a little.

See ya...

[doublet]

I just cleaned and rebuilt the rear section and I havent had problems yet, its still runs like new. Stormperson - maybe there's something not right with your part's fit or an error in rebuilding.

[stormperson]

just wondering, how often do people here rebuild their diffs?

since i know there is always something wrong with mine, i always built an extra tranny, so i built one, just incase, however the tranny in their was running very smooth and great, then the diff let out, 5 laps into practice. i tried tighning it, it wouldlnt tighten, i am going to check it out today.

then i tried to rebuild a diff, i got all of the parts, and when i try to tighten it, it doesnt tighten! this is really upsetting. its like 1 mm away from tighting, i am using the correct number and amount of everything....

however, once thing i do do, to keep from having to tighten the diff every time, is a put it in backwards, so it tightens instead of loosens. i have ran for months without problems. however, it finally died yesterday.

also, there was this jump they have at my track, and its not that big, i go about 7 feet long, and maybe 4 feet high, anyway, i landed a little funny, heard a crack or something. i ended up flipping my car in a odd section of the track, go over to turn it over, the rear pivot plate, SNAPPED, right (its hard to describe, know how its almostl ike 2 square, a smaller and larger ones, well on the line it cracked, thers a big jagged line) and its funny, the only car that didnt break was my emaxx, and i ran over 45 minutes with it. and i thougth it would break after 5!

but any tranny suggestions would be great....

thanks!

[rc10gt_bb]

So. What do you guys think about the XXX Dirt Spec?

[Oyster]

Storm,

Try replacing the lock nut in the diff. And follow the instructions very close. The way Losi made it, it works great!

If you need the lock nuts, it's part number A-6306. The price is $3.50, and you get 10 of em. I'm ordering myself some directly from Horizon when I order my springs and shock oil and the such. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif Hope this helps.

- Jon

[XXXER]

I had the same problem with my diff when building my car! I stripped that diff nut carrier, so i said, screw this, and i got an HG Aluminum one, cost 10 bucks, but not a chance of backing off, or stripping.

[Hobbes]

I was considering getting an XXcr or a XXX. What is a good engine for these cars. I'm on a tight budget only being 16yrs old, so nothing to expensive.

[stormperson]

i found out what it is, it was that my LHS gave me the wrong size bearing, anyway, i now have 2 complete back up trannies. (i feel like the audi team at lemans, lol!) but then again thats for a 4 car operation of xxx's and xxxts.

but i found that the hg diff nut always loosens nomatter what kind or how much locktite i put on it.

any i really wish someone made a blue anno rear pivot plate, like with the t3. it would be soo much better, i wouldnt snap it, and i would strip the countsunk holes.

[SirSpeedy]

Hey guys, use the Losi diff nut carrier, and just put a new lock nut in everytime.

The Hg unit will lose it's setting.

BTW, I am leaving for the WinterChamps in the morning, so I will talk to you next week.

See ya...

[Oyster]

Go for the XXX. It's a mean machine. Very fun to drive, and assemble. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif I wouldn't put an engine in it, but a MOTOR would be great. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif Seriously, I dig on my 12 turn "Retro" Gold by Trinity. Winds up quick, has a nice stout top end. It's not much more than a "stock" motor either. About 40 bucks from Tower.

- Jon

[XXXER]

Good Luck speedy, write back ASAP, tell me how Jeremy Kopp did, he drives 2WD mod and truck mod, he is a local Utah guy, really cool, he is sponsored by pro-match and some other companies

[Aussie_Man]

Anyone have an idea how much a new XXX KE will be? If I do good at this years state titles, I am going to sell my XXX and get a XXX KE.

[Oyster]

Does anyone have the weight difference between the stock and the graphite chassis?

- Jon

[stormperson]

i wouldnt say you should sell your car, unless its stock, the kinwald should sell for around 270ish probably.

[Oyster]

I wouldn't buy a Dirt Spec unless there were a bunch of people in your area driving them. WHY? Because for an extra few bucks you get the actual XXX... why go Spec when you can have the real McCoy?

- Jon

[Nairb]

Is the list of all the hop-ups included with the XXX KE on the net somewhere? Where can I see it?

[Oyster]

Try www.teamlosi.com (http://www.teamlosi.com)

- Jon

[J mAn]

i would just bye all the hop-ups that come with the xxxke you would get like $130 for a used xxx so you would actually lose money.

[rc10gt_bb]

What about the XXX Dirt Spec!

[Oyster]

I see no reason to buy all the stuff that comes with the XXXKE. For one, talk to the pros. Better yet, talk to the honest pros. After talking to Matt Francis about if theres any gain with the graphite chassis, and such. He said '[It's unclear if there is any advantage to having the graphite.]' That to me says, "I run graphite because Losi gave it to me to run." I can understand graphite a-arms, at least in the front. But, I've seen SOOO much that can be done to a stock XXX, WITHOUT buying new parts. Why change over?

My opinion(s) anyway. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Oyster]

First, the Graphite front A arms SHOULD be a little tougher. The a-arms on the XXX are rather weak. We'll see...

As far as the chassis... I have no problem with the stock one. Also, flex is bad news on road or off road... but the point is, can you flex your XXX? If you can, you got problems!! That chassis is stiff!! Until someone can actually tell me some weight facts about the two chassis', well, I'll stay with stock.

- Jon

[XXXER]

the dirt spec is a fine car, if you dig blue stuff, and get the needed bearings, then it WILL be faster than a stock XXX, why? Lighter drive train, though, it will get sloppy, and need replacing. plus, the cost of a new set of sneakers for it(from what i hear, and have smelled, the DS tires smell like rancid tuna casserole from gramma).

Bob Stormer from stormer hobbies said that the XXX KE will be 239.95 from him, i do not know of other places like Horizon and such.

About the graphite, your car CAN flex, and the graphite chassis is stiffer, sometimes the big guys want a little more flex, tuning does not just mean changing the suspension, and tires, it has to do with the WHOLE car, weight distribution fits in with lighter parts in my book.

about the weight? I have a rear Graphite shock tower, and versus the stock, it is much lighter, i am sure with that much plastic, it will be much lighter over the stock chassis

[Oyster]

Graphite.. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif As far as flexing, I haven't been able to flex the stock chassis as of yet. Under power *MIGHT* be a different story. But if I can get on the extreme edges of the chassis, and try to hand flex it, it doesn't.

One very important thing I learned racing cars, (full scale auto racing) is you NEVER want to chassis to flex. EVER! Unless it's a top fuel dragster. But, that's beyond our style. The problem with a chassis that flexes is the suspension doesn't work out the bumps, the chassis does. Also, any flex throws off toe adjustments, castor, and camber. Along with center of gravity. So, your car is going to do a lot of wandering under flex. All the time you spent tuning goes down the drain.

RC tech crosses into full scale tech, and vice versa. And with that, chassis flex is a big no no.

Weight. As said before, weight is a serious killer. I've spent hours and days before shaving pounds from my full scale car. When you're driving a 2400 pound Dodge Omni GLH Turbo making 180hp @ 5600 R's, if you shave 10 pounds off you WILL notice a difference. There is a drawback though. You take weight from the front of an Omni, you lose traction, but also transfer less weight to the rear.

This works in RC as well. The more weight you shave, the more power gets to the ground, IF you have enough weight transfer to transfer the power. It's a tricky business. Just bolting on lighter components makes you lose weight, granted. However, if you lose too MUCH weight in the wrong area, your car will never handle the same, or correct again.

XXXer, how many grams lighter is the new shock tower you spoke of? Remember, that's weight right in front of the rear tire, and just off of the driveline. Less weight good, less weight transfer to the rear tire takes away from acceleration, and straight line traction but I doubt you'll notice, because I doubt it's more than 3 grams difference. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong if it's really a lot lighter.

I went with the graphite A-arms up front for the reasons of money (their not THAT much more) and they should be a bit stronger. The rears can stay plastic, (which is also the main ingredient in the graphite parts.) along with the tower.

I've already taken weight from the car simply because I can. The top shock mount screws are heavy, yes? Well, you can take over 2 grams from front and rear if you cut or file them down. Just enough to make the nylon strike thread is all you need. Equal weight taken from front and rear.

The chassis can be lightend, but not much. Going around and rounding every edge saves a little weight. A scotch brite pad against the bottom will take off very minimal weight, but leave the chassis very smooth, and without little bits of flash that will slow you down when you drag the bottom. The rear axles can be cut about 3-4 threads. Less rotating mass overcomes the weight loss at the tire.

Lots of weight savings to be had with a stock kit.

Back to graphite though. As said, if the graphite chassis is a LOT lighter, I might spend the money. So if anyone has the facts and numbers, speak up. Till then, I'd rather spend more time learning how to tune my car, and drive!

- Jon

[stormperson]

how much wieght do you think you have saved so far?

and as for the graphite chassis, well i remeber when i built my tc3, i compaired the graphite one with the stock one, and there was a weigth difference, it seemed like more then 7 grams. which i think holds true for the losi one.

if you say chassis flex is bad, then why did schuemacher design the axis 2's chassi to flex for asphault?

[stormperson]

why would one want to run graphite a arms in the front? and i heard that its a better idea to run the stock chassis, since it allows for alittle bit more flex, which is better for offroad.

[Oyster]

I think I may have already saved about 5 grams. Not much, but, I've only started. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

As far as the Schumacher (sp), I don't know what their going for. If they find something better than everyone else, great.. I'll use the tech to win races. Till then, I see no reason for chassis flex unless the chassis IS the suspension, and there's only a few areas that works in.

- Jon

[Studder]

Yeah about the chassis ...... i have a graphite one and it is much tougher then the stock one ..... i broke the stock one from taken jumps in my back yard .... after jumping it 47 feet!!! it finaly broke so it is still planty tough for racing...but if u want to go big and have less waight go graphite.

[Oyster]

Studder, did you happen to weigh each one to find out how much weight difference there is?

- Jon

[LosiMan3456]

I have a question about BB steering. Is it one of those hop-ups I can a difference with or is it just another plain old hop-up. What should I invest in, new servo digital and metal gears or BB steering?

[stormperson]

great hop up, defently helps the steering, the xxx's always seem to have some understeer, i got it, and it made my steering much better, and it made the turning radius tighter! worth the $20 defently, and you will notice it too.

[XXXER]

I have felt the BB steering, and it is super smooth, i plan on them soon, also, i would invest in a high speed servo, before the bb's, because, it one one of the more neccesary race things.

Oyst, i also, mainly bought the Graphite ST because of strength reasons, this is my 3rd shock tower, one, i had a Ball Stud break off, the other is when the back end of my car broke off(long story)

[Oyster]

As far as BB steering, I have yet to have an understeer problem. Unless it comes with updated castor blocks, it shouldn't make a difference. I'd say get a good servo and adjust your radio to your liking.

XXXer, OUCH! I hear ya though. I'll admit this though.. I got my graphite a-arms in the mail today, and they are a bit lighter... the chassis must be lighter for sure. We'll see how it goes, I might just upgrade to the graphite stuff (some of it) now that it seems there actually an upgrade to be had.

First though, is springs and shock pistons. Tuning, then driving, then upgrades. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[stormperson]

i disagree oyster, they actually do provide a larger degree of turning, and its much quicker, you WILL notice a difference. and i would actually get it before the servo, and that way you can judge if you need a better servo, however a better servo is defently on the top of the list as far as upgrades.

but i think i broke over 5 ball studs and i have unable to get the threaded screw part out of the shock tower, however i changed to ti ballstuds, robinson and losi ones, and now i have yet to break one, defently an important upgrade too!

[Studder]

Oyster i didnt really have a chance to weigh them because i needed a new one and a stronger one ... but i do notice that it seems to be lighter in a way that it flies farther and just by picking it up seems lighter.

[rc10gt_bb]

Can someone compare the dirt spec with the regular cheap xxx?

[Oyster]

Ok... here's the spec...
http://www.teamlosi.com/kits/xxx_spec.htm

..and here's the XXX
http://www.teamlosi.com/kits/triplex.htm

I haven't seen both in front of me, so that'll have to do! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Oyster]

Storm, I don't understand how the BB steering will give you more steering. Less drag on the servo, yes... but please explain how it improves the steering... what does it change?

- Jon

[stormperson]

so some reason, it frees it up, i heard through mulipile racers (non sponsered) and losi, that it actually does increase the angle or something of that, but it will decrease the turning radius.

i dont have the numbers, but i will say it was the only hop up that i actually know i have (minus servo and motor)

[Oyster]

Well, given the steering stops are on the castor block, I don't see how it could improve radius. BUT, I'll give you the freeing up part. I'm certain it's a more free and stong setup no doubt.

Got a pic of your XXX?

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

Hey guys, I bought a XXX about 3 months ago now and am getting really good at racing this car. I have not put a single upgrade/hot-up on it and would like to start doing so. I would like to keep this for about another 6-7 months and then sell it for a XXX KE. What do you reckon I should put on it first? I'm not going to spend a great deal of money on this thing as I will be selling it but I'd like to keep it valuble until then.

[Oyster]

After driving the wheels off my XXX already, and only having it two weeks I've found a few things to spend money on to help it and dial it in.

1. Titanium rods. Just so you never have to worry about it.

2. Springs, shock pistons, and shock oil. For tuning and racing.

3. Spare parts for the diff! I just went to a hardware store today and bought some stainless washers for the thrust. Why? I had one break, and the diff was BAD. So I bought 20 of them at 4 cents a piece. Take one with you to make sure you get the right size. While there, check out some nylon nuts. I'm slowly shaving all the weight I can off this car. When I'm done it'll be lighter than an XXXKE. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

4. Tires and Rims. Different tracks require this. So does tuning.

5. Time. This one is almost free. Spend lots of time trying new setups. I'm sure you've done this one. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

6. Camber and Toe in gauge. This is kinda a freebie.. you can use it on your next car(s).

That's all I can think of right now. There's more I know. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif Anyone else?

- Jon

[SirSpeedy]

Hey guys,

Wow. This thread really took off. Pretty Kool.

XXXer- I Kopp was in my 2whl qualifier, and we were in the B main togehter.... I am not sure how truck went for him....

Ball Bearing steering will not improve the radius of turning.....It will make the steering smoother and take out some slop.

See ya...

[Nairb]

I don't know about you guys, but I love the stock setup on my XXXT. It is absolutely dialed for my track, and I don't need to change anything. I see no reason to waste money on extra springs, pistons, and even shock oil I might not ever use. If you need to change your setup, then it's different, but I'm not buying any of that stuff. The right tires are very important, though. Wasting money on tires that will never work on your track is a bad idea, though. Chances are, people have tried all the tires around for your track and they know what works. Ask around.

I highly suggest you get rid of that UGLY stock motor plate and replace it with a nice machined Losi one. I also suggest BB steering, titanium turnbuckles, titanium nitride shock shafts, Losi titanium pivot balls, and whatever else you'd like. I'm going much further on mine, but it's not all really necessary.

[XXXER]

GREAT SirSpeedy! Hey, B-main, ain't that bad! Jeremy is a cool guy, plus, he is really fast, so did you beat him?

[rc10gt_bb]

I totaly agree with you Nairb!

[Oyster]

I think the stock XXX has too stiff of a rear spring on it. The fronts are close though.

As far as the motor plate, I took mine off and polished it to a mirror shine. Oh yeah, looks very cool. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif How to do it? Scotch brite pad, then Eagle Aluminum polish. I now comb my hair thru my motor plate. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[SirSpeedy]

XXXer-

You can see the final results at www.rcresults.com (http://www.rcresults.com)

I was third in the B, and I belive Kopp was fourth or fifth...not sure though...I don't think we really took the Bmain seriously...lol...

The spec tires were really sketchy in qualifing...it was challenging to get in a good clean run with so many people out to lunch on them...even if you were hooked, so many people were not it made traffic a problem

See ya...

[Aussie_Man]

It had to happen didn't it? **** AE drivers ripp'n off our thread LOL chow

[XXXER]

I know Aussie man, i saw it too, LOL, hey, so, did just the stock class have to use those hideous smelling tires? Well, i saw the results a few days ago, i could not see his name in the 2 wheeler, but i see it now, he got 2nd in the B main for St. Truck

[SirSpeedy]

Any more setup ?'s.....

[rc10gt_bb]

C'mon guys! Lets break 100!

[Aussie_Man]

I'll help ya break 100. Whens the next Off road (RULES!) world champs? I wanna is how they go with the XXX.

[Aussie_Man]

Hehe, first to the 4th page LOL.

[Oyster]

Look here... http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif
http://www.rcworlds2001.com/index.htm

Jukka is looking good, he might be the next IFMAR Champion.. what do you all think?

- Jon

[SirSpeedy]

Jukka IS the current World Champion...

I will tell you what, for a guy that never races truck in Finland, he sure looked good in Tampa. Gil Losi Jr. also told me that Jukka hadn't raced in over 4 months, due to school. The WinterChamps was like a warmup race for him....and he TQ's and Wins Mod Truck......WOW......NOt to mention his usual dominance of 4 wheel...three in a row, and 4 out the last five in four wheel now....

[This message has been edited by SirSpeedy (edited 03-02-2001).]

[SirSpeedy]

Oyster-

"XXXer, I hear ya about the camber link to the outside... only makes sense for it to be as far out as possible. Perhaps AE has something with the kingpin/ballstud setup. It IS pretty cool"

If you want to try the kingpin balls on your Triple X, you can. Losi offered kingpin balls in the mid 90's. You will have to pick up an spare set of front carriers, as you will have to grind the tops of them off where the ball stud presently mounts.

The car is VERY smooth with them, but most drivers prefer the 'snap' of the B hole in the carrier. You might like them on very high bite tracks.

Losi part# A-9707. Enjoy.

[Aussie_Man]

Jukka in school? GOD how old is he? Stuff school, wouldn't ya like to travell the world racing r/c cars? I'm only 14 and would love to do that.

[Aussie_Man]

Hey Oyster take me with and I'll be ya pit crew, LOL! I also am still using the stock setup with the XXX but have changed the front carrier to the inside I think (opposite to standard way) and only 1 washer under camber link. Are these kingping/ballstuds still around? I'd like to try them, how much ya reckon? I'm still using the standard shock oil too, think I might change to 25wt oil though, see what that does. Catch ya

PS, hey Oyster, lets have a bet to see who becomes IFMAR 2wd mod champ first, you or me LOL, only j/k http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/wink.gif

[SirSpeedy]

Yep.

Losi part# A-9707, they retail at $8.50 for the kit, which includes shims for adjusting their height.

See ya...

[Oyster]

SirSpeedy, Thanks for the tip(s).. but I'll stick with a "stock" setup on my XXX. We'll see what trouble I can get into. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

Aussie, travel the world racing RC cars? Sounds like a plan! I'm tryin man, I'm tryin!

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

The kit? Does that just includ the studs things or them and the carriers aswell?

[Oyster]

Aussie man, pit crew eh? You got it! Except that bet... who'll make it first? Hmm, that's a tough one. You rich? I'm not, so... if you are, you'll most likely win it! Actually, I'll be happy with a factory ride just around the US. It'd rule. Race all week(end) and then drive to another race... ahhh, then sleep in a hotel bed, and leave the room dirty... repeat process.

As far as different setups, YES! Try everything. I don't want to try the ball/kingpin setup yet. I'm having a load of fun figuring out different springs, and shock locations, and camber adjustments, and so on. Before trying a different shock oil, you might want to try some springs. For one, they're fun to play with, easy to change, and cheap. Oh yes. Cheap. I bought 3 pairs for the fronts and three pairs out back for 15 bucks. Granted, I bought a pair of yellows in the rear and I didn't need em. I think the stock rears LOOK green. Not yellow. But, live and learn. I'll post some spring info in the next message.

Once I have more knowledge about the suspension, which is by far the hardest part of the car to fine tune, (I don't think a lot of pro drivers fully understand it all) I'll have more to share. I can tell you though, springs make a BIG difference in feel. You can make the car do certain things easier when you change springs. Of course. It's a give and take, like with most car things. For example, I've been playing with Reds up front, and Pinks in the back. Result? More off power steering. You can square a corner on high traction whenever you want it. You can turn a low speed 180 without much effort. But, you can also roll the sucker at low speed if you try a slide. Granted, this is on high traction surface.. dirt testing starts tomorrow.

XXXer, now that you're up to speed about the thread problem we had... I'm glad you like the motor plate polishing trick. It does add something to the car for SURE! Just looks like it needs to be that way. Very slick!

Long winded again... hope someone enjoyed reading this. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Oyster]

Spring Info...

LOSA5128 2" Spring 2.5 Rate,Red $2.50
LOSA5129 2" Spring 2.9 Rate,Orange $2.50
LOSA5130 2" Spring 3.2 Rate,Silver $2.00
LOSA5134 2" Spring 3.8 Rate,Blue $2.50
LOSA5148 2.75" Spring 2.0 Rate,Yel $2.50
LOSA5150 2.5" Spring 2.3 Rate,Pink $2.50
LOSA5152 2.5" Spring 2.6 Rate,Red $2.50

---

Those are Horizonhobby(.com) prices. Not too bad, and, at least where I live they are FAST on shipping. Considering my town is dead when it comes to RC now-a-days, Horizon has been a god send.

Losi makes more springs than the ones posted above. But, those are the only ones I own. Thus, the only ones I can honestly give opinions on. I'll let you all know what I find tomorrow as my current setup hits the dirt.

Front: Camber link - outter: Out. Inner: Out. Shock Location, A-arm: Mid. Tower: Mid. 30wt AE Silicon oil, Stock piston, Red springs. Stock tire, stock foam.

Rear: Camber link - outter: Out. Inner: Mid. Shock location, A-arm: Out. Tower: Second from out. 30wt AE Silicon Oil, Stock Piston, Pink Springs. Stock tire, stock foam.

We'll see how she reacts different from stock. From here on out, at least for awhile, I'll be trying every combo of spring and mounting locations to see what works best for my driving style. Why not? I have some time! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[XXXER]

Ohhhhhh, xxx FORUM, hehe, i dunno what i was looking at......

SirSpeedy, my buddy has the kingpin/ballstud thingy, it is WAAAAY outside, but i like the B position, hey, if you guys want serious high speed steering, put the front shocks on the towre to the outside, it is unreal!

Anyone else tried quarter weights? for a while, i ran 32.5 up front, did pretty good, and guys, i strongly suggest lowering the front ride hieght just below level(the arms compared to the ground). did wonders for me.

Ahhh, big night of rebuilding last night, just my tranny, and the outdrive bearings(the big ones) were way to gritty, so, for the first time, i rebuilt some bearings, it is quite easy with those huge-o bearings, but all in all, i am gonna replace the whole set next time i do a diff rebuild.

Next up, the SHOCKS, well, the complete suspension system. Uggghhh, who hates maintenance? MEEEE!

[Oyster]

XXXer, I love to maintain my car!! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif Truly. I cleaned one of the outdrive bearings last night myself. It was gritty gritty!! So, I used a dental tool to get the teflon seals out. Left the inner one off, (less resistance) and I think I'll do it to the rest as well. Those seals help keep out some dirt, but, it's just easier to clean and lube without one on there.

As far as replacing the bearings, unless their loose, I would just clean em good and lube em. They'll be great!

- Jon

[doublet]

man HOW THE HECK do I adjust anti-squat!??!?!
Someone said buy shims, but what kind? Where?!!!? HELP!

[XXXER]

In the rear pivot block, there is 2 small plastic shims, that do not look like washers, they are rounded one end, and the other is sqaure, if you take them out, you have 0* anti squat, with them in, you have 2* anit-squat. I do not know what happens when you have them in/out. I just leave mine in.

I did pretty good tonight IMO, i just got back, i qualified 4th for the B, and got 5th, pretty good i think, for only racing in stock a few times, plus, my main was my fastest run of the day! It was a 15/5:07, the faster guys got in 16, that were in the A, i think the winner may have gotten a 17, but i do not know.

[Oyster]

Anti-Squat. You can adjust the AS with washers or the shims. You can fine tune it with a thinner washer. .020" is worth 1 degree of AS, the stock shims are .040" thick. As per instructions, the XXX has 2 degrees of AS. This gives the car good forward traction. Without the shims in place you get a little less forward traction, but gain side bite. With more AS the car tends to perform worse in bumpy conditions.

Anti Squat is a cool setting to play with. If you have a really bumpy track with lots of jumps, take the shims out and try it. You might like the results better.

- Jon

[Oyster]

Tried my new springs off road today. With the pinks in the rear, the car has a LOT of side bite. Too much for the ammount of camber I had in the rear. (about a 1/2 degree) - to make these springs really shine, you'd need a loose track with lots of jumps. You'd also need to kick in the camber a little to help the traction problem. I then tried the yellows back in the rear, and lost a little side bite. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif But, tried the blues up front, with the mount on the a-arm all the way in, and in the middle up top. This causes the car to really dig the front when you go to turn. With a soft spring up front you can lift a rear tire off the ground if you nail a corner hard. The blue springs up front stops this problem... still has good steering but doesn't dig as much. Very nice setup.

So, I'll be playing with the blues up front for a little while. We'll see how it goes.

- Jon

[LosiMan3456]

Hey. I just bought BB steering for my XXX. I know where I have to put them in but what is the easiest way to get them in w/out taking the whole front end apart? Any suggestions?

[Oyster]

The nice thing about RC is the parts are light. Unlike a real car, you don't have to lift 80 pound things out of the way to get to it. Sooooo, just take the front end apart, and put the BB's in when you put it back together. That way, you can always check how things are wearing, and working. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[XXXER]

LM, the best way? take the front end apart, LOL. Hey, oyster, i reccomend trying green up front, i do not have them, but i plan on getting them, i see people running them on thier buggies.

? for all, what motor do you run most in your XXX? Mine is a Spitfire, and a P2K as a back-up

[doublet]

Where do I buy anti squat shims??? How do I put them in??

[SirSpeedy]

Just to clarify.

The stock pivot block on the Triple X has two degrees of Anti-Squat. No shims = 2deg of A/S. If you place the shims in the rear, you will have zero A/S, and the shims in the front will yield 4deg.

The exception to this would be if have a 0deg Trinity Alum. pivot block.

More A/S will generally give more forward, less side bite, and less A/S will give more side, less forward bite. More A/S is darty in bumps onpower, the opposite holds for less A/S.

More A/S also make the car react more quickly to input; I generally run quite a bit in the 2whl and the truck, and use dampening/springs/roll center to find side bite.

See ya...

[doublet]

well where can I buy those shims? I must need 4 degrees anti squat if tthe stock pivot blocks have 2 degrees..... its a smooth but slippery track

[SirSpeedy]

The shims come with the kit. And you alos get new onew when you buy new pivot blocks.

I ususlly run 0deg A/S on slippery tracks. Forward bite is useless if you can't mantain any cornerspeed.

See ya...

[XXXER]

YESSSSSS, haha, i got the 100th post.

Thanks for clarifying that whole A/S thing speedy

[Oyster]

XXXer, I was going to try the green springs, but two things held me back. One being that Horizon was out of them at the time, and the second was the rate. The green has a 3.5 rate, and the blues have a 3.8 rate. Stock silvers are 3.2. I do notice a difference with the blues, and it gives the front of the car a much flatter, more controllable feel only when the bottom of the shock is moved all the way to the inside mounting location. On a bumpier track, I'd opt to use the orange, or reds, with the bottom of the shock in the middle location. An even bumpier track would have me use the stockers.

I'm sure I'll try the greens too, but the blues gave me the feel I wanted.

Now if you want gobs of low speed steering, go for the inside mounting on the a-arm with the stocks. I wouldn't go any lighter if you're all the way inside. It tends to take way too much weight off the rear.

Only way is to try though. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Oyster]

Sirspeedy, thanks for setting me straight on the AS thread. I didn't mean to say 2 degrees with the shims in place. Oops! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[LosiMan3456]

Ok I would like to try different shock loc. on my XXX but the manual says if I move the bottom of the fronts to the inside I would need limiters. What are they? Did they come with the kit? If not where can I buy them? Oh thanks for the advice on the BB steering! I took the easy way out and just took that piece off that holds the servo saver down. HEHEHEHE! Oh I could use some help on setup. I run on a slippery clay track. We all run slicks there to. Right now I am pretty much running all stock mounting locations. Anybody else run on a track like this. I will play with the setup but does any one have some setups I can start with and then dial it in?Thanks

[doublet]

I still need to know if anti squat shims are available by themselves to buy...... where are they located on the buggy?? I dont see any

[Oyster]

Losiman, The limiters they speak of go on the inside of the shock to make the shock a little shorter. The reason for these is to keep the spring from drooping past the coller. If the shock drooped too much, it would bind the spring and make for an odd performing car. What I've seen so far though, the limiter isn't needed. If the spring was a little shorter, it would be. So, I wouldn't worry about it too much right now. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif One thing to think about though, you may like a stiffer spring before you move it in.

As far as your setup, I'd try this. Time yourself with your setup now, then make some changes, and time yourself again. Run a full pack each time, and notice how the changes make the car react. On a slick track, I'd be looking for traction, but also the ability to slide thru corners, if it's smooth enough. If you really want to square off the corners though, try a slightly stiffer spring in the rear. If you want even more dig up front, try a lighter oil.

Still though, I'd try one thing at a time as see if it improves. Make notes of what happens with each setup, for future reference on other tracks. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[SirSpeedy]

Originally posted by SirSpeedy:
The shims come with the kit. And you also get new ones when you buy new pivot blocks.

See ya...

You can use the #4 (gold) washers that go under the ballstuds on the front bulkhead as a replacement for the shims. They adjust the A/S in 1.5 degree increments, however.

[Studder]

Hey there all ..... i have had my XXX since it came out and its the best buggy i have ever had. But i need help with one thing. I have a 9T trinity D4 that i use to race mod with. What gear ratio should i use. Well just tell me what spur and pinion to use thanx.

[Oyster]

With my 12 turn double I've been using a 22 tooth with the stock 82 spur. This is a little high, so I recently jumped to a 20. I'd say try a 20 or 21, and check the motor for lots of heat. If you're not majorly heating the motor, you're probably ok. If you are heating the motor enough to burn ya, back down a little.

- Jon

[Oyster]

XXXer, I noticed you were asking Matt Francis about the black pistons for the shocks. The manual says to use the blacks, but there's a small sheet that comes with the kit now that states they had better results with the red and oranges. I believe it's orange in front and reds in the rear. Hope this helps ya man. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Oyster]

Got a tire question out there. Well, kinda. For those of you that have purchased Losi tires, do they come with foam liners? Or do I have to spend more and buy some? Thanks.

- Jon

[Nairb]

Yes, they come with liners.

[Oyster]

Thanks for the reply! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[SirSpeedy]

Whoa!!! A 9-turn in a 2whl!!! That is a lot of motor for that class!!!!

BK won the WinterChamps with a 11 double!!!!

However, if you feel you need that kind of power I would say run a 19/82 at least. A 9turn has less torque, and more RPM than a 12 turn.....which is what I generally run in 2whl mod....A 12 triple geared 21/82, to be exact...very smooth. On big, open tracks I run a 11 double with 20/82....

As for the Losi inserts, they are some of the best foam on the market. I use Losi firm inserts in Proline tires as well.

Proline foam seems to deteriorate rather fast. Trinty Bomb foam is also an excellent foam.

See ya....

[This message has been edited by SirSpeedy (edited 03-07-2001).]

[XXXER]

Losi Foams are excellent, they will pretty much never detiorate, pro line ones, are crappy, trinity white, and gray are great for packed clay, run whites when it is i a little bit of ruts.

Oyst, i thought that was it, but i lost the little papers taht came with the kit(stupid me)

[Oyster]

Well, I'll order my tires now! Not sure which are best for the tracks near me, (200 miles) so I'll have to guess. I think I'll go with the IFMAR pins or studs. I like lots of traction out back. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif Who doesn't?

XXXer, it's all good. I don't know if it's even worth buying other pistons. The ones we have seem to cover a lot of ground. I'll just invest in oils. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Oyster]

Well I tried the orange springs up front, with the yellows in back. I like it!! I mounted the front shocks in the middle up and bottom. Very nice. Less turn in than the blues up front, but it carries thru the corners very nice. Also very easy to spin her sideways, and keep her there controlled. I also took out the shims in the rear for a little more forward traction. Makes it easier pull out of a drift. I'll play with this more and see what else I can make it do. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anyone else have some setups to share?

- Jon

[XXXER]

Lower your front, i like mine that way. Put the Caster Block in the "upper" position, you adjust this with the little black shim that is on the top with the stock set-up. Have you tried messing with the #4 Gold washers? I run 2 because i like it that way, i am going to get more so i can try 3, i have tried 1, makes steering more aggressive, good on some layouts. Are you mainly playing with shock positions/setups? I like yellow, with orange also, it is a great set-up. I once had 32.5 out front, little more steering. If you like the back end hanging out, try running "Narrow" Wheels, gives the tires a higher pro-file.

Sir Speedy, have you tried sway-bars?

[rc10gt_bb]

Lets continue this facinating discusion over at Vs. 3.0 Shall we! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[XXXER]

Nope http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[SirSpeedy]

Funny how the AE guys just can't take a hint....there thread just lingers at the bottom....jealousy????

[Aussie_Man]

This is stupid, soon theres going to be a XXX-forum v40000000 and a AE B3 v500000000.

[SteveP]

It appears some of you would rather keep this to a single thread. I've deleted the V3.0 because of your colorful comments. Please keep it civilized. I would suggest ASKING the regular posters in a given thread before starting another... http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Oyster]

XXXer, I tried kicking the front down a little. It now sags just under level. It's nice!! I forgot to mention it before. Works great! I'm trying out everything I can at the moment. Sticking to oranges up front for right now, yellows in the rear. Both f and r just below level. I'm on high traction surface, so it's just testing. I'll try the castor block movement, and right now I'm trying one washer under the camber arm. Just to see if I notice much change in steering. I have loads of washers so I'll try the other side of that too.

As far as sway bars... they'd allow you to adjust how flat you want to keep the car. So, you could kick the shock inside, install a softer spring, or lighter oil up front, for example, to make her really dig in, but the sway bar would level the car out better under a dig. Good idea, of course. I'd consider it if I raced on high traction hard surface. That's where the sway bar really helps. Or, anti-sway rather. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[XXXER]

Thanks Stevooo, good to see THAT is gone. Oyst, you are really trying to exploit every potential of this car, aren't ya! Come on guys, one more post, and it will be 6 pages....

[SirSpeedy]

Six it is.

[Oyster]

XXXer, man, I'm gonna be taking this car all over Washington state and maybe Oregon. I want to win everything! Ok, then get sponcership and then have all my traveling paid for. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif It's a long shot right? Or.. is it?

- Jon

[XXXER]

Nice job speedy! Hey, if you are ever in the Utah area(which you could make here in your omni in, you know, fast times, LOL) you HAVE to come race here! it is the BEST!

[Oyster]

XXXer, you know if I'm ever in Utah I'll have you hook me up with the best places to race!! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif As for the Omni, I'll take ya for a ride. 1st gear, spin, 2nd gear spin, 3rd gear scratch - gone! hehe

- Jon

[Oyster]

Hey guys and gals (are there gals here?) What gear are you all running in yer XXX's?

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

Thanks Steve for getting rid of that other stupid thread. Sorry bout the post, (he needed it) http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/wink.gif

[XXXER]

CRAP! I just wrote this huge-o post, and i messed it up!

I am running a fusion that will be soon replaced with a C2
I am running a Spitfire stocker, and plan on getting a Aurora mod, 12x2(i have run modified power in my buggy, not enough, D4 14x4)
I am running a Futaba Magnum remote, that is really crappy(i mean crappity crap crap) I want to replace with a Multi Plex Profi 403.
In my battery department, i run Reedy World Class Zappers in 2400's, and some matched trinity 2400's that are not as good.

Mainly, i spend cash on tuning stuff, not much in the way of hop-ups, just, some Titanium Ball studs, not even Ti tie rods, still the stock steel, LOL, i do not break them, so i guess it does not matter.....
I also have the blue RPM gear cover, and a graphite shock tower.

[Aussie_Man]

What are the numbers on your 2400's? I'm thinking on getting 2000 but might have to go for 2400. Everyone reckon 2000's are gone. Voltage, runtime, resistance, mah, all that kind of stuff.

[Oyster]

My Gear... http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

Airtronics M8 (love this radio!!)
Novak Cyclone
Trinity Gold 12 turn

As for batteries, I have two cheapy packs. They were actual packs, but I ripped em apart and made em side by sides. One is a 1500, one is a 2000. The 2000 certainly has more punch and a LOT more runtime than the 1500.

Also using robinson pinions. Lunsford titanium Punishers. Very nice. And of course Losi tires all the way around. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

Next thing(s) to buy. More batteries! Been doing massive research on the different batteries avail. Then a better charger. The XXX is a nice, stiff car... so the graphite chassis can wait, if I ever even buy one. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[XXXER]

My batteries have 1.133V@4A charge, and 301 seconds on a 27A Discharge. These things are great! I built them with Trinity gold plated Watt Bars, and Deans 12 gauge Wet Noodle, with a 2 pin ultra plug.

I use Losi pinions, they are really quiet and true, and last a long time.

I am waiting out on the Ti because Lunsford is coming out with some thicker, stronger ones.

[Oyster]

XXXer, heres some money savers for ya. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif One, the battery bars. Go to an auto parts store and buy some copper tubing, smash it down with a hammer, or a press. Then cut to the size you need. OR, wide solder wick would work, or 10-12 gauge solid copper wire. Gold plating does nothing for you. It's all copper underneath. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

Connectors. I used male and female connectors from Radio Shack. They are the yellow shielded ones for 11 gauge wire. Work awesome as well. 3 sets for $1.49.

Lunsford Punishers are THICK! If I ever break one I'll be shocked. Not worth 25 bucks, but... I suppose in the long run they'll pay for themselves.

So many things to use other than spending the money for the namebrand stuff.

- Jon

[Oyster]

Got my new tires and rims from Horizon. Fast shipping... lovin it! hehe, anyway... Got the red compound x-tra wide front ribs and the red compound IFMAR studs for the rear. Talk about rooster tales! Very nice, lots of traction. Had to change to the blues up front and also trying a lighter fluid in the front shocks. 27.5 in the front, 30 in the rear. Must try more tomorrow.

On another note... noticed a couple things from the Winter champs. The pro guys are running the plastic chassis. I wondered why before why they were using the graphite stuff and then adding weight to the front to regain some much needed weight on the front wheels for steering. So now they're coming back to the plastic parts. Interesting eh?

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

My car: Futaba Magnum AM radio, standard servo, GM Sport speed (LOL!!), Losi tires all round, 3 Fantom 1700's and a Kyosho 21x1turn "stock" motor, LOL again.

[Oyster]

Aussie Man, what's the LOL's for? If you have control of your car, what's to laugh at? You can still win races with an AM radio, or GM Sport speed control.

- Jon

[XXXER]

Oyst, i just mainly like to get brand names, and plus, the plugs are staying, jsut to be compatible with a lot of guys, and they are always in stock, and they certainly do not break my pocket...

And with the wire, this stuff is thick, and not always do you just pay for names, with wires, it is the # of strands in it, and there are a ton is this stuff.

As for the gold, 2 dollars more than the regular, certainly will not break the bank either, plus, they look better than the copper ones.

[SirSpeedy]

140 posts.....^

[Aussie_Man]

I lol'ed because some of the guys I race against have the most up-to-date speedos and stuff around.

[Oyster]

XXXer, I wasn't talking about solid copper wire for use with the speed control. hehehe. I mean to solder the cells together. Our batteries certainly don't transfer a massive ammount of energy. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

I can understand wanting the batteries to look better... but remember, looking better doesn't make you a second faster. 2 bucks more for something that doesn't do anything better is a waste of money in my book.

Aussie man, don't worry about it man. Run what you can, and win what you can. I know a lot of guys that spend spend spend on everything. I remember one guy that paid good money for a motor zapper. Guess what? I beat him. Then there was the guy that had thousands of dollars in chargers. Beat him too. The list goes on. If you can win with an AM radio and a sport ESC, theres nothing to laugh at! Besides, aren't we going to win the worlds? http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[XXXER]

*shrugs* I do not really give a rats(ahem). How much does the thing cost taht you do? i can pick up trinity watt bars for 3 bucks, that is the all copper ones, and 4 for the silver plated, and 5 for the gold, i think 2 bux buys piece of mind, oh well.

[Aussie_Man]

You and me Oyster al the way, LOL, I might need to get a mod motor to even run at the worlds, lol.

[Oyster]

XXXer, costs. Well, I had some of this tubing, but, you can pick up many feet of it for cheap. It's used for oil pressure lines and such for cars and other equipment. It's just copper... which is what you're using now. Just copper. In fact, I don't even need THIS MUCH copper for every other cell. The stuff I used was about twice as thick as the Trinity stuff. I just like saving money when I can. If I can make something better then Trinity sells, why use Trinitys? http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

Aussie Man, You got it man! Pick up a mod motor and get used to it. It's a different world! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[XXXER]

I am ready for modified power, an Aurora 12 turn would suit me fine, thankya very much http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Oyster]

I love my 12 turn Trinity. I don't think I'll be buying another Trinity product unless they sponsor me. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif I'm thinking now about an Orion 12 or 11 turn. After getting used to the speed of a 12, I think an 11 might be the way to go. A 12 double has gobs of torque, and very nice high R's. I could stand to lose a little torque and have a little more R's. So that might be the way to go for me.

I've been collecting parts that I'll need for racing, so... just have to invest in some good batteries and I'm off! Should be hitting the Tacoma/Seattle area soon! Woo Hoo!

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

The most powerful mod motor I run is a 21x1t kyosho motor that I ran in G20 (we have a 20x1t class like stock) It goes pretty well with the oter guys, plus I won the first 2 qualifiers with it and ended up finishing 3rd.

PS Oh but, a 6x1 would be nice if my speedo would handel it, LMAO and 2min of runtime

[This message has been edited by Aussie_Man (edited 03-15-2001).]

[XXXER]

Ohhhh, So CLOSE to 7 pages, oh well, my bet is that Oyster gets it. Aussie Man, are you registered at Trinity as Mr. Oz? someone was looking for more power out of there 20 turn, Why don't you guys go to Chameleons? For a while here, we had a "Sport Mod" class with them, I am gonna see if they will start it up again, i would like to get into it, some of these motors are potent, i saw one with 33000 RPMs and almost 200 Nmm of Torque! Those sound quite viscious!

Oyster, do you run the Retro Series motors?

[XXXER]

Can't resist, must post for 7th page......

Ok, time for a shock rebuild, what type of seals have you found to work good?

Thanks
Steve

[Oyster]

XXXer, yeah at the moment I'm using the Trinity Retro Gold. Which is a machine wound 12 D. Not a bad little motor.

As far as Shocks, what kind of seals? The shaft seals? Or, do you want a seal around the thread?

If it's the shaft seals, try the stockers. A-5015. They are cheap, and you can get them directly from Horizon in a couple days... that is if your LHS is as lame as mine. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

If you wanted a seal around the threads, I'd go for a bit of teflon tape.

- Jon

[XXXER]

Yep, i was looking for the shock shaft seals, i am looking for some that are super smooth, and long lasting, i have been looking at Acer, MIP, and Racer's Edge

[rc10gt_bb]

Acers are good, but I can't find them anywhere. Does anyone know where I can get them? Thanks!

[Jason LaDow]

The best seals to use are the stock red seals. Associated uses the same seals and they sell an 8 pack for around $2. It is much cheaper to put new seals into new cartridges than to buy all new cartridges. Another thing is that new cartridges sometimes do not want to seal around the shock body totally. By using a set of cartridges that you know do not leak you prevent this from happening.

Jason

[XXXER]

Where have i seen your name before Jason? Are you registered over at Trinity also? I think that is where I have seen you.

Thanks for the reply.

[Jason LaDow]

XXXER,
Yes I am registered at the Trinity site also.
Any forums I visit I use my real name at.

Jason

[rc10gt_bb]

Livin on the wild side, aren't you Jason! Telling your real name and all. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

[XXXER]

Ok, I thought so, are you a BRT'r? I am, #527, my name at trinity is XXXSTEVE, my real name is Steve Bylund *gasp* http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Jason LaDow]

Steve,
No I am not part of the BRT. I do run for Peak Performance though.

RC10GT_BB, I doubt anyone that reads R/C boards is going to stalk me! haha!

[Nairb]

Sounds like a CHALLENGE to me! LOL! J/k http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/wink.gif

[XXXER]

I was pretty sure that your name sounded like a sponsored one, but did not want to say anything and look like a retard http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/cool.gif

[Oyster]

Here's my current setup for anyone that cares. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif
http://members.aol.com/boostedomni/xxxruff.jpg

[SirSpeedy]

RC10-

I think you are missing the point. It is a GOOD thing that the post is seven pages. Some people exchange valuble information on this thread, and like to be able to recall it later.

Did anyone else notice the "------V 2.0-----" is gone? WoooooHoooo

[rc10gt_bb]

Prety funny, huh! I agree with you Sir_Speedy. And I sue am glad he got rid of the V. 2.0. It was realy dorky. There were starting to get so many versions of so and so car that it was getting hard to find the forum you needed!

[XXXER]

Hey, ya, cool!

Either way, what is this new "rear shock tower" speedy that i heard you blabbin about on Adamo's 3X?

[SirSpeedy]

Not too sure. Robbers posted on TT that he had a new tower for hte Triple. I was refering to the Triple tower on the 4wheel. That is dialed.

Maybe Ladow can shed some light on the matter. They all race together in Ohio I think...I'm pretty sure...

[Aussie_Man]

Well I just got back from a good days racing and finished 3rd outright. 2 speedos blew today. 1 GM V12 melt to the ****house before the even started and a Cyclone did too near the end in mod trucks.

[XXXER]

Aussie, sounds cool! man, does it stink when that happens.

Another thing speedy, is there a MF Edition 3XT coming out? or similar, someone said that on another thread, and i am thinking, no, probably not, what are your thoughts?

[SirSpeedy]

Hmmmm...

[Jason LaDow]

SirSpeedy,
The shock tower mod is just something we (Jesse, Tony Hines and myself) are developing right now. I'll let you know more when I can.
I am interested to know how they put a XXX rear shock tower on a XX4 though. If I wanted to change the shock angles I would have made brackets. They also lose the furthest down and out camber link by changing shock towers. That is the position alot of people run.

Jason

[XXXER]

Nice thoughts SirSpeedy http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/wink.gif

[SirSpeedy]

Originally posted by Jason LaDow:
They also lose the furthest down and out camber link by changing shock towers. That is the position alot of people run.

Is this is reference to the Triple tower on the 4wd? So you have, or have not seen the mod? Or are you refering to your 2wd tower mod?

The benefit I found is hte mod moves the shocks down(lower CG) on out further that the outermost holes on the XX4 tower...I really like it.



[This message has been edited by SirSpeedy (edited 03-19-2001).]

[SirSpeedy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SirSpeedy:
[B] Is this is reference to the Triple tower on the 4wd? So you have, or have not seen the mod? Or are you refering to your 2wd tower mod?

The benefit I found is the mod moves the shocks down(lower CG) on out further than the outermost holes on the XX4 tower...I really like it.

See ya...

[Jason LaDow]

SirSpeedy,
I was speaking of the XX4 modification when I spoke about losing the camber link mount location. When I ran 4wd this is the location (location 12 I think) I always ran.

Jason

[Aussie_Man]

Hey guys my track just got a website going. Come check it out if you want. http://www.rccar.com.au/Knox.htm

[rc10gt_bb]

WOW! 8 pages. This has got to be some sort of record, hasn't it?

[XXXER]

Ya, probably, but have you guys ever been to rctouring.com? I am pretty sure SirSpeedy has, they have tons of posts, and topics, like, the guy with the most posts has like 2200 or some outrageous number, they get a lot of hits there.

I dunno, some of my regional threads have gotten far, the regional thread is at 5 or 6, and the Club/Track thread is 6, Utah boys know how to post!

[Nairb]

8 is nuthin'... At the Re-Volt forum I used to hang out at, there is a "Post about Nothing" going strong at 27 pages right now! And it's all about nothing!

And, yeah, this Utah boy really knows how to post...

[This message has been edited by Nairb (edited 03-20-2001).]

[SirSpeedy]

The Shumacher Corner thread on RCtouring is over 50 pages..

[Nairb]

Wow, I didn't know so many people were interested in Schumachers...

[XXXER]

Over there it is NUTS! I just registered there a few days ago, i like it.

Ok, back to some actual questions for once, SirSpeedy, here i go, getting all antsy again, while tightening my steering up, to get rid of the slop, i remember that my car is all sorts of twitchy, i am trying a new style of driving, the smoother, more consistant conerer rather than the point and shoot that is so common, and slower, so i put the shim underneath the caster block into the upper position, lowering the caster block itself.

All the rest of my set-up is stock, besides front ride height, which is low.

A. Is this a good start, and
B. How else can i achieve this?

More washers, different BallStud placement, or putting the camber link to the inside on the caster block.

Thanks
-Steve dawg

[SirSpeedy]

Congrats on the new "STYLE"....lol...


Well, to reduce the sensitivity of the steering response, you could add a washer or two under the camberlink ballstud, and going to the A hole on the front carrier would reduce steering response, although that is a radical move...

When you speak of caster block being spaced up/down, are you talking about the spindle? I usually run the spindle spaced down(washer on the top). Spacing the spindle up will make the car more responsive, which is what you seem to want to rid the car of.....

[XXXER]

That is exactly what i was looking for, and thinkin, thanks SirSpeedy, BTW, how do you like my new Badge?

[Aussie_Man]

Hi guys, I was wondering what kind of springs to use on a bit-tight track with high traction other than the stock springs. I've basically setup the car with the stock springs and want to know if I can go even faster with a better setup. I've seen a few people using reds in the rear and greens on the front. What sort of changes will this do?
I've already read all the post from Oysters testing with his car. Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.

[Oyster]

Aussie Man, On a high bite track I'd try Silvers, Greens or Blues up front. Either one will keep the front more level, depending on shock location. For a little more high speed steering, try moving to the outside of the a-arm. Stock up top.

For the rear, you can get away with a stiffer spring to keep the rear level. This helps on a high traction surface. However, this will take away from side bite... You won't notice less side bite from a stiffer spring until you push it too far... then she'll spin around on ya.

Depending on driving style will depend which spring you need. Unless the surface had big jumps, I'd not use the reds in the rear. Most likely Pinks. Up front I'd go with silvers or blues. If I want lots of turn out I'd go blue. If I want more turn in I'd go silver, or try the middle mount on the a-arm. Here's a setup to play with...
http://members.aol.com/boostedomni/xxxaussie.jpg

Hope this helps!

- Jon

[XXXER]

Well SirSpeedy, i am trying that new setup today, lets hope it works, it is a flat track, and very fast, i may be moving the ball studs to the outside, but i still do not know.

[XXXER]

wOOT wOOT, car was dialed today, the track was loamy as all you know what, but my car did great! Bummer file, pushed out of one turn in practice, and snapped suspension arm, and a tie rod.

[Aussie_Man]

Thanks Osyter I'll try that next meeting.

[Aussie_Man]

**** its annoying waiting for the next meeting, 2weeks of angony. LOL. Where are ya's all? Gone so quiet.

[Oyster]

Yeah, it HAS been quiet in here. I guess there aren't many people that want to talk about the XXX anymore. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[SirSpeedy]

You guys must be winning races.....cars must be dialed.....lol...

Anyone get a new car? The BK ed.?

[Oyster]

Speedy, I thought long and hard about the KE XXX, but... that'd mean a few things. One, I'd have to sell my XXX that I bought about 2 months ago. THEN, I'd have to eat that cost, then buy a KE. That means all the time I've put into mine right now would go down the drain. I've modified mine past what Losi did, so... it'd just mean more time. Plus, my XXX is now worn in, and SO smooth.

So, I'll buy a graphite chassis probably, and that's about it. I don't feel I need the graphite bulkhead, kick up plate, or pivot plate. Some of the "pros" that I've seen aren't even using most of the graphite parts. I don't need the titanium nitrate coated shock shafts, I don't need the blue wheels, I don't need the ball bearing steering... so... why buy?

It does look like a good car though, and if I was about to buy... I'd go for it. Then replace the ugly Phobia body with a stocker. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

Be carefull with the graphite chassis, the XX KE chassis gave me the worst problems with glitching and radio interference.

[SirSpeedy]

Hey now,

Easy on the 'Phobia'.... My buddies Jim and Jason have put a lot of work into tha...

What is wrong with it? I think it looks kool....sleeker...lower...more durable wing....pretty kool indeed...

[Oyster]

Speedy, you sound like my explaining why I chose to buy and modify a 1985 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo. It's ugly, it's rough riding, it's boxy... but when a outrun a 5.0 Mustang in the quarter mile... then it's all worth it.

Just my opinion man. I don't think they're good looking bodies. But, with the right paint, they probably look fine.

- Jon

[Oyster]

Aussie, If you have bare wire on the ant. showing, or touching... it will certainly give you problems. Even if the ant. touches, it can give you problems. My advice is to wrap the ant. wire around the ant. tube. Not running thru the chassis then up thru the middle. Mine doesn't even touch the chassis.

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

1 of the things I tried was to drilla hole through the ant. tube about 1/2" up from the chassis and insert it through that. The only thing that fixed the problem was to completely cover the pack in electrical tape and lay some in the battery holder in the chassis.

[Oyster]

I thought about drilling a hole as well, but didn't want my ant. tube to snap when I roll her over! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif I'll have to experiment with the graphite chassis when/if I buy one. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

Well just got back from the meeting. 1st in all qualifiers, 1st in all finals, 1st overall, lol. I had a really good day today, I was even beating the guys who were running in G20 (we have a class that runs 20x1t motors) and I was beating them with a stock! I just need to get a RPM gearcover since mine is rooted.

[Oyster]

Way to go Aussie man!!

What's the difference in the stock gear cover and an RPM gear cover?

- Jon

[Oyster]

Heres a windows background for all you XXX freaks. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

http://members.aol.com/boostedomni/tl-logo.jpg

[SirSpeedy]

lol....

Matt and his narrow wheels....

[Oyster]

This one better?

http://members.aol.com/boostedomni/bk1.jpg

[SirSpeedy]

Now that is from Florida.....

Traction was awesome...stock buggy could wheelie...on spec tires....haha!

See ya...

[Oyster]

Speedy, were you racing at FLA?

- Jon

[Nairb]

Speedy is ALWAYS racing in Florida...

[Aussie_Man]

Come one people where are ya's?

[Oyster]

Right here man. What's the track like you were racing on? What setup did you use? Did you kiss the trophy girl?

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

Me? Na, there wasn't no trophy girl there, it was just a club meeting.

[Aussie_Man]

Try this, This is what it looks like except the straight at the bottom is straight and not round.

http//:www.rccar.com.au/knox_track.JPG

[Aussie_Man]

Bummer!, how do u post pics?

[Oyster]

" http://www.rccar.com.au/knox_track.jpg

You had the : and the // reversed. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[doublet]

Hey i have a xxx swaybar kit. What will it do for the front and rear? My track is hard packed dirt/clay mix and its a tiny but crumbly (small bits of loose dirt on top)

[SirSpeedy]

Wow, that track looks pretty kool.

What kind of surface is that? It looks high-bright, almost blue-groove....What tires do you guys run on that?

And I hope that is not you blowing that turn after the little tabletop in the middle of the track....lol....

See ya...

[Oyster]

The sway bar kit will help keep the car level. It'd be perfect for a flat, and smooth track. Tight suspension, sway bar.. nice cornering. On a bumpy track with lots of jumps however, I'd not use a sway bar at all. You want more movement from the suspension in that case, and the sway bar wouldn't help there.

- Jon

[Aussie_Man]

Its almost a blue-groove but not grippy enough. It does have very high traction and we run x2000 and taper pins with extra-wide fronts. My car isnt on there. Those triples can get some serious air with the mods. Some get like 5ft in the air and about 10ft jump.

[doublet]

OYSTER - Its a nice smooth track but there is 2 small doubles and a sall table top. that isnt too much is it? Anyway i am over steering with on power like through the first sweeper after the straightaway. would I need front or rear swaybars?

[Oyster]

doublet, The only way to know if they help is to try it out. It all depends on what you're after, and what your driving style is. If it's a smooth enough track, you can rally thru the corners. Sometimes the sways help you hold a nice sideways line. Sometimes you lose a little forward traction with the bars. Try it out, and please do post your results.

- Jon

[Oyster]

Here's my current setup for the little track I made in the backyard. I LOVE this setup, it's hooked in, and pulls nice. As stated at the bottom, the yellows out back give the car more slide... with the pinks in place though, this sucker carves. The dirt is watered a little to minimize dust, it's rather fine clay type soil. Please post questions/comments.
http://members.aol.com/boostedomni/xxxbackyard.jpg

- Jon

[doublet]

Oyster - I put on just the front sway bar tonight, the thinnest one, and I hope this solves the on power loss of rear traction. Do you think this wil tame the front down so the rear can keep up? Thanks for help so far. Now i sorta know what i'm doing

[SirSpeedy]

doublet-

We really only run swaybars on really high-bite tracks. What tire do the fast guys run there? That is a good indication to me.

Typically, you run a swaybar on the end of the car that you want to reduce traction. If the car has too much rear bite, adding a sway bar will free up the rear end. Adding a front bar will take some snap off of the steering. I like to run the thinnest front bar on the 2whl on heavy blue groove. I make the car a little bit more stable.

I seriously doubt that you will ever run a sway bar on the track you club race. There is simply not enough traffic to lay down any type of groove that would require them. They are only for heavily blue-grooved, high-bite surfaces.

On any other surface, they are merely a Band-Aid type fix. There are many ways to add/reduce traction without swaybars.

See ya...

[doublet]

Fastest guys here run red tapers in rear

[SirSpeedy]

Well then.

We are talking about traction....

You have too much steering......hmmmmm

What tires are you running? If red Tapers, what front?

[doublet]

xtra wide silvers

i actually love the great steering off power and the tight cornering but that one sweeper kills me because the rear gives out and i power slide into a wall sometimes or fishtail.

[SirSpeedy]

OK,

So the rear is washing out....for ex., the rear stays hooked, and then all of a sudden breaks free...sound correct? If so you will need to go a little heavier in the rear.

What rear oil/pistion/spring/arm mount hole/shock tower hole are you running now?

Lot's of questions, but I can't see your car!

See ya...

[Jason LaDow]

Oyster,
One thing I noticed on your setup sheets is you don't run any limiting in your front end. On the outside hole on the arm this is fine. But as you go to the middle and inside holes you must run limiting or your car will handle strangely. For the middle hole in front arm I suggest you start with .060" limiting inside. For the inside hole I suggest .090".

Jason

[Oyster]

Jason,

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't had a problem with the shocks, or odd performance. In fact, with the latest setup, the car is really hooked up. For the track I'm running anyway. From what I've seen, depending on spring.. fully extended with the shocks on the inside causes the spring to dangle. But, with the oranges in the middle, I haven't seen a spring dangle yet. http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif None the less, it's something I've thought about looking into. Thanks again!

- Jon

[doublet]

SirSpeedy - I use the camber links - 2 A and 30wt/red spring 2.5"

Its just like you said. In the cornering this does just great but looses it self under speed. Oh yeah anyonw tried BK pitch gears? I just tried them tonight... man it makes my car accelerate alot faster! Its not louder but makes more noise.... but now i can clear all the doubles soooooo much easier now....

[Nairb]

That is probably because you are using a different ratio now. The gears themselves can't make you go faster, it's the ratio of the combination that makes the difference.

[Oyster]

Less rotating weight WILL make you faster. For example, if you lighten the flywheel in my car, it'll wind up MUCH faster, and give me "free" horsepower. So, that much is possible. However, I'll lose torque. So, take off will be slower, but I'll wind up faster. Depending on motor, a lighter pinion can make a difference.

- Jon

[doublet]

Well the 24 and 96 pin./spur are the equivalent of a 20 and an 82 for my practices and i use 26, or 22 equiv. for racing. Both ways I accelerated faster... i dont think i lost torque....

[Nairb]

Yes, less rotating mass will make you faster, but I don't see room for much difference when you're still using a plastic spur gear and a metal pinion. That's amazing if it really does make your car accelerate faster. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I'd be very surprised if it does happen.

[Oyster]

You cannot take rotating mass off without losing SOME torque. You gained R's though. So, depending on where your motor makes it's max power, and max effiency is where you'll see the change. Try it with different motors, you should see different results.

- Jon

[Nairb]

What gives you the idea that reducing rotating mass reduces torque?

[Oyster]

Like a flywheel, the less weight you have rotating, the less energy you have stored. If you added weight you'd increase the stored energy (trq) but decrease RPM, since the motor must use more energy to spin the added weight, or store the energy. So the horsepower, or RPM's will suffer. Am I making any sense? http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

A lot of research is needed when reducing weight in these cars. If you take weight from the rear, you must take the same weight off the front or the CG changes. If you change the weight of rotating parts, you must counter act the effects with a different motor, or different gearing, driving style, setup, and so on... When you take weight from the drive system you might notice more top speed, quicker spool up, but it won't go into corners the same, and spins out quicker during braking. All this can be adjusted around. But it all takes time.

Keep us in touch on how well the new pinion wears. They're sure spendy so it'd be nice to know how long they last.

- Jon

[doublet]

Well the gears still look new after the races last night. I fixed the mesh better and they are quiet now. I think they also accelerate my car faster because of less friction in the pinion and spur with smaller teeth, less surface contact.

[Nairb]

I don't necessarily agree, Oyster. Since when is stored energy = torque? The energy stored in a flywheel is rotating kinetic energy. The more mass in the flywheel means more inertia to make power delivery less touchy. Torque is the force with which a motor can twist its armature. Torque = Force * Distance I don't see mass equated in there anywhere. When it comes to gears, the smaller the pinion gear is in relation to the spur gear, the easier it will be for the motor to spin the drivetrain. When you reduce the mass the motor has to spin, it can only make it easier for the motor to twist. I don't see any way that reducing rotating mass will make it harder for the motor to twist (that is what torque is, the twisting force). So far Oyster, your arguments don't convince me otherwise.

Railman, I agree for the most part, but you've got one misconception going on there. When you use a smaller spur, you must also use a smaller pinion to achieve the same ratio. When you go down in spur teeth AND up in pinion teeth, you magnify the change in gearing and make it much higher. Try figuring the ratios and you'll see. The best way to get the best mesh with gears is to use a big spur gear and a big pinion gear to achieve the ratio you want. With both gears having less of a curvature, the edges will be more flat, and hence they will be in contact between more teeth.

[This message has been edited by Nairb (edited 04-08-2001).]

[Oyster]

Well, Nairb, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Until I can do more studies in this case, I won't have all the answers I want.

Now, don't get me wrong... if you have a super tourqey motor, a lighter drive will not take any away from the motor itself, but within the system you'll lose rolling energy. This is my point.

Hey, let's get a half rack and argue about this all night sometime Nairb! http://www.rccaraction.com/ubb/smile.gif

- Jon

[Railman]

Nairb, You were right! Please re-read my reply above, it will make more sense. Thanks for the catch!

[SirSpeedy]

Doublet-

Sorry for the delay, I was at a race from Fri-Sun.

I don't think that I have ran anything heavier than red/30wt/#56. You did not mention what hole you are running, so I would say try going out one hole on the tower(stock in hole #2 FYI), and I assume you are in the outside hole in the arm?

See ya...

[Nairb]

Oyster, I agree to disagree. In that last reply you said that you'll lose rolling energy. THAT is correct! However, less rolling energy (inertia) does not lessen the torque in any way. Rotating energy and torque are two separate things; they are not equivalent quantities in any way. I think you're trying to say that you'll lose drivetrain resilience and a little bit of the "gyro-effect" (as SirSpeedy mentions it often), and this is very true. HOWEVER, you will not lose torque because of it. If anything, you'll GAIN torque because the drivetrain will react quicker to changes in power input. OK, I've said my peace...

Anyone else care to comment?

[Oyster]

Nairb, Perhaps I was jumping the gun. My whole point was that the pinion certainly DOES make a difference. I don't know if it's as much as some people claim. Of course, if anyone has something to add, don't hesitate. I don't think anyone here is a basher upon disagreement.

On other news, I tried moving the rear shock to the inner hole today. The Losi manual was correct in that it makes the car harder to square up. It certainly helped the cornering. I drive on a real tight track that I made to test setups. It's got one sweeper, a hairpin, and a bumpy curve. It's a pretty good track to tune on. More things to try!

- Jon

[Railman]

The improvement in power transfer comes from more teeth being in mesh at the same time on a high pitch gear. On a low pitch, with a small pinion, there might be only two teeth in contact at a time. This causes a high load on these teeth & a not so smooth power transfer. On a high count pitch you might have 3 in mesh at once ,this spreads the torque load & I believe reduces friction. The faces of the gear teeth don't slide across each other as much on a high pitch gear because of the reduced tooth depth. However the gear mesh is much more critical with high pitch gears because there is less margin for error (tooth depth). I used to run a 2.60 truck transmision (stock is 2.19) on my XX buggy (ala Kinwald). This allowed for a bigger pinion, which gives a smoother mesh, and also moved the motor forward. I think this was part of the reasoning behind the XXX 2.40 transmision motor placement.
The down side to a big pinion is that it puts more load on the can bearing/bushing. I raced slot cars 30 years ago & most of the fast guys ran high pitch gears then also. It took me a while to reaize why! Just my $.02

This reply was edited because I screwed up!
Thanks for the catch Nairb, Not enough sleep for me last night!

[This message has been edited by Railman (edited 04-08-2001).]

[Railman]

Oyster & Nairb: Are you guys havin fun or what! The only time stored energy or increased inertia is an advantage to acceleration in race vehicles is in vehicles with clutch's where the power is dumped all at once. An extreme example would be a pull truck with a manual clutch. Electric cars have no clutch and any extra inertia only slows down acceleration & decelleration . I run a GT with a heavy steel flywheel help tame some of the explosive power of the engine I run to make it more controlable (still wheelies all over). This works for me. The down side is it hurts on the braking side, due to the extra time it takes to bring the rpm down for turns. Its all about the time element of the hp equation. Increased inertia requires more spin up time thereby reducing the distnce element of the equation. Never did make any sense out of hydro slipper ( because of all that inertia increase) Peace!

[This message has been edited by Railman (edited 04-10-2001).]

[doublet]

Sorry let me clarify my most recent setup -
FRONT - 2" green (dark color) springs, 30wt oil 56 piston std., shock pos. on arm = middle, tower = middle, camberlinks = 3-B toe in = 0 camber = 0 ride height = arms level, XTRA WIDE silver tires

REAR - 2.5" red springs, 30wt oil 56 piston std, shock pos. on arm = inside, tower = 2nd from inside ( its stock pos. i think), camber links = 2-A, toe in is stock, camber = 0, antisquat is 2, ride height = bones level, Taper Pins RED tires

[SirSpeedy]

Doublet-

Try the outside hole in arm first, then go to the #3 hole in the tower. You may have to go to Pink/25wt/56 if you do both of those, as it will be to stiff and slide just after you turn in....

See ya...

[doublet]

Sounds like a good idea but I might keep my 3owt oil cuz i hate changing oils.

[Aussie_Man]

Well guys I got a problem. Its with the diff. in my XXX. When I turn 1 of the rear wheels around, the diff goes smooth and nice but and then it goes hard like 1 of the balls isnt round or something? How many balls are there ment to be? I looked in the manual and it says to 'grease the washers and place all 8 thrust balls onto it' then a little further down the page it says 'Note: make