X-Ray - Single - belt conversion

[Fast Five]

Pardon my asking... but how would a single belt improve a car?

[Hairball]

Can you say "Losi Envy"??

Seems like the cool thing to do is make a single belt drive trane these days... don't know how much it really helps, but it *sounds* cool to consumers... :)

[Fast Five]

I've been thinking about this...

I don't really see how a single belt would help. In fact, as I see it, it would hinder more than help. The longer surface area of the belt would mean that there's more "slack" in the unit. It seems to me that it would actually cause slower acceleration, wouldn't it?

[chizzler]

uuuum...
fast five, your answer lies within the new losi xxx-s, and youll find out if designed well a single belt can be extremely efficient.....

[Hairball]

Chizzler - Whats the basis for your argument that the XXX-S's single belt drive system is more efficient than a dual belt system? Don't even try to say because it's been winning races.

On a parts basis, less parts is usually a good thing (1 belt instead of two). Less parts to replace, and it could save the consumer money. (that is if that one belt costs less than the two belts combined, which they probably won't, because most R/C manufacters are Nazi ******** ).

I think that a single belt could be better, because (i'm not sure how to explain this) in a two belt system, if the front belt is tighter than the rear, or if its just sitting better on the pully than the rear belt, the front and rear tires won't hook up at exactly the same time. Now will this make the car better or worse? Who knows. I'm not a physics major. Now on the other hand using a single belt, the front a read tires are all on the same belt, so everything starts rotating at exactly the same time. Now thats got to be a good thing!

But i'm thinking that the difference between the two systems isn't going to make anybody drive faster or run there cars any better. In the end, it just looks cool.

Hope I didn't confuse anybody, and I at least made a little bit of sense..

[SteveP]

Single-belt Upgrade

Seen here is a prototype version of the single-belt upgrade for the Xray T-1. The kit will include the longer belt, bridge and ball bearings along with instructions for the conversion.

Special Features:
Single-belt upgrade
Includes bearings, bridge and belt

Part no. and price – TBA

http://www.rcnitro.com/cmhs/xraysb.jpg

[ProjectTwin]

The bulk/motor mounts look like they are keyed to rotate the diffs and adjust tension on the belt.

Nifty

Jason

[SixVi6]

Basically with a two belt setup. there are more bearings, more shafts, more pullies and more rotating weight. all this extra weight and friction will slow the car down. With a single belt its lighter, more efficient, and simple. REad the reviews of the XXXS.. they say it coasts forever. thats because there is much less friction in the driveline so it accelerates faster, has more top end, and better coasting... :) I hope this helps..

[Razzo]

quote "Basically with a two belt setup. there are more bearings, more shafts, more pullies and more rotating weight. all this extra weight and friction will slow the car down."

uummm... your logic fails. Look at above picture. It's one belt. Still has top shaft pulley, no less rotating weight. If anything there are more contact point with the belt to keep the belt tighter, more bearings to do it, which means more overall weight and rotating weight. What's lighter? dual belts, or extra ball bearings?

With two belt, all you have is an added belt. Even with single belt car, you need a top shaft and pulley, PLUS another pulley to keep the tension, which means 2 shafts, verses one for typical 2 belt car (ie. Yokomo) XXXS has one shaft for the spur/pully combo, and another roller for belt tension. How is that lower friction? if anything it's higher, since you need the tension roller to keep the belt tight. With belts, you want to run it loose as possible, for less friction. Far as testing the car's coasting ability with no load, who cares? if you want to see a car coast, get a TC3, and use a center shaft that weighs more than kit one, it WILL coast forever. Since the heavy shaft will keep its momentum longer and keep it spinning. Better yet, coast a car with heavy aluminum setting wheels, it will coast forever too.

[HauntedMyst]

Don't even try to say because it's been winning races.

Thats a pretty good argument though.

On another topic, Did you that apparently the models at these shows are for display only. Man was the X-Ray guy mad with I put the car in my bag and said "thanks, I'll let you know how it works."

[Hairball]

Thats pretty funny... :)

I've been thinking about trying to convert my Xpress Pro to a single belt system, but i'm not really convinced its worth the trouble. (If you don't know what an Xpress car looks like, look at the Xray T1, and color all the aluminum red, or a HPI Pro 2 for that matter)

I think that the only really benefit is that you only have to replace one belt instead of two. But is that really a benefit? In a race, if you happen to break a belt (I've never herd of it happending, but it could right?) you'd still have one left in a two belt system, where in a one belt you'd be dead on the track.

[TSR6]

Everytime i have been unlucky enough to throw a belt or something it has locked up the front drivetrain. Thats on my Nitro though

The XXX-S rocks...

[Coconut]

T-1 sales must be slow;they just brought it out.

[SixVi6]

Razzo.. well the thing above is a conversion and yeah that is no better than a regular Xray as far as I'm concerned... but look at the XXXs It was designed as a single belt tourer.. it has a loose belt that gets tighter under load. the belt rides on the front and rear diffs an idler pulley and the spur pulley. no metal top shaft at all and only one idler pulley. its all plastic and light weight riging on large as possible bearings and this is not more efficent?

Here is a pic. (http://www.teamlosi.com/Pictures01/Sedan/drivetrain.jpg)

Either way I've seen a XXXs run at my local track. it flies... it wins races... I doubt this Xray conversion is all that good but either way if 1 belt is not better then why is the XXXs winning races and why are other manufactures making single belt conversions for their cars if its no better than the 2 belts?

[chizzler]

there is no friction, and there is no slop whatsoever. the drive train is free and the motor can run more efficiently, the motor then in turn wont suck up power from the batteries. under load the belt on the xxxs can be set really loose and it wont matter. i would like to see an express when there is not enough tension for the belt to run properly, oh wait, i forgot i fit in with the norm that because everyone elsesays its good, it must be. or better yet since i had one before anyone could say anything much about,and i already said it was an excellent car im officially wronged for justy so happening to be right......

you choice...... ;)

[Hairball]

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

CARS DO NOT WITH RACES YOU CRAZY PEOPLE!!!

DRIVERS WIN!!! ITS THE DRIVERS!!! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS!!!

"Oh, The new Losi is soo cool, its got a single belt thats makes it faster, and its winning races, so its got to be better"

SHUT UP! Put a good driver behind ANY NEW CAR and it is going to do good, put a driver behind it, and its going to be bad.

Sorry, its just the same thing over and over again... a car wins a race, so its got to be the best out there.

Ugh.

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Hairball ]

[chizzler]

go win some for us then... :D

[beef_flavored]

hairball, they are not saying a single belt car will make you a better driver, which it wont. Theyre simply talking about efficiency, the mechanics of the car. :p :p :rolleyes: :)
, put a driver behind it, and its going to be bad hmm, so the tc3 is bad because mark pavidis is behind it and hes a driver??

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: beef_flavored ]

[EMAXX Type R]

if you dont think the single belt is better than its simple, dont buy it, if you think its better, than go buy it and try it.

[Hairball]

Quoting myself "put a driver behind it, and its going to be bad "

Umm, that should have read "put a BAD driver behind it, and its going to be bad" :D

I just got set off because its was being applied that once again a car was superior to others because it won some race. No mention that it was the drivers skill that brought the car over the finish line, just that the car one, and that car is better than the rest because a driver took it over the finish line.

Oh well, its been a long day.

Chizz - Wish I could win a few for you, but I'm a horrible driver to be totaly honest. I just go to the track to have fun. :)

[divve]

Just one thing...the Kyosho KX-One single belt car was release quite some time before the Losi. The XXX-S isn't unique in that respect at all.

[Usagi]

I am really intersted in this upgrade. But do I need those new adjustable bulkheads??? :confused:

[thard]

can i just add something to the car and driver debate...

ITS BOTH!

both the car and the driver win races, not one or the other, look at spashett when he was driving the street weapon, good car in its day and all, but when the latest generation of TC's arrived (mainly the TC3 and Yok) he was nowhere, lost his confidence, switched to Yokomo, and started wining again (and is now back with losi).

Also if a car isnt easy to setup, or needs a while to work out its idiosyncrasis, then its gonna take even a good driver a while to get it to work, no matter how good they are!

Coming from an automotive background, there is technical more to Rc's than a lot of people realise, ie every system has pro's and cons, no matter what it is, it just takes a good driver to get more pro's out of it than cons. ie A basically good car (good base setup etc) can flater a mediocore driver, while a good driver can make a mediocore car (not to hot as standard, bit of experimetning required) great.

Sorry if it sounds like a bit of a moan, but hey thats what i belive...

Ta
ED
:D

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: thard ]

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: thard ]

[peterv]

Consider it a fashion item; XRAY figures that if people want a single-belt option, then why not make it available. I'm sure that, with testing, the differences in performance between the single-belt (1B) car versus the two-belt (2B) standard will be determined, and the unique conditions where the 1B setup is preferred can be discerned from there. But the T1 was and is designed as a two-belt car, and I think that's the configuration that will allow it to perform its best 99% of the time. Of course, I could be completely wrong!