new track problems

[jayskiia]

there is a new off road track in my town and we are having some problems with him. the track is run by a hobby store, and has had several small races. these races were somewhat unorganized and just gave out prizes for the days winners. he is trying to put together a season for next year. this is where we have run into problems. he is proposing a box-stock rustler class, involving stock everything including msc, tires, motor, and a 1400, and even the stock 18 and 87 gear ratio with no changes. not a bad idea for a beginner class as the rustler is very popular here. he wants to have a parts-claiming process though where for 5 bucks you can trade the top 3 trucks parts with yours- sounds pretty fishy to me.
he is also proposing a stock truck class with roar stock motor, stock tires, 1500 battery, stock body, and everything else is up in the air. my problem here is i have a dirt spec truck from losi and he says the blue tires arent stock for this truck, he says the black truck tires are the stock on this truck, so i have to buy new tires to be in this class. several guys have this problem and we have proposed that he goes by roar rules and nothing else, so things dont change every week. anyone else have any hints????

[pudder]

Bone stock rustler class? Well for those few people who do have a bone stock rustler and would be willing to race, I don't think there should be a class like that. I think it should be stock truck, mod truck, stock buggy, mod buggy, or something like that. This guy sounds strict. Maybe this guy should ease off the rules a bit more.

-mike

[Nutter]

rofl, the guy says a XXXT Spec IS NOT spec? hehehe :rolleyes: :p
That's just... dumb, especially for a hobby store owner! :)

From what you describe, that "parts claiming" sounds VERY bad.. it sounds like you mean that something like this could happen: someone races their rustler hard for a season winning races, then someone gets a nice new rustler.. the person who was winning all those races drops back from the lead, then when the race is finished they trade the old, badly worn parts for the new parts of the other guy... very unfair indeed!

I think that guy's just off on a dream world and is trying so hard to be fair that he's being anything but fair.


-Nutter

[RC Freak]

this guy sounds crazy. how is he gunna get everyone to go exactly by the rules. especially the gearing in the rustlers. is he gunna make you open up the gear cover after each race to check the pinion and spur size

[InspGadgt]

You might want to point out to him that if he goes by Roar rules and gets Roar to sanction his track that they will insure his events to protect him from liability. Protecting his own butt may help persuade him... :D

[Serius Black]

I think the spec-Rustler idea is a great one. Since 99% of all Rustler owners are newer to racing, and frankly don't have the cash to spend on a ton of hop-ups, why not make it a spec class?
I do think this guy ought to loosen up on the gearing rule, ya' gotta give the racers something to mess around with. He should just stick with the battery, motor, and stock chassis restrictions, but leave suspension and gearing adjustments up to the racer. He should also find the best tire for his track for most conditions, and make that the spec tire. What if the blue Losi tires are extremely loose on his track? Then you'll have a bunch of frustrated drivers being forced to run a cruddy tire.
This is a subject that gets me a little hot, because this is really what the stock class should be for. There should be price limits on motors and batteries. Shaving and soaking tires should be illegal. Anything that isn't available off the shelf at reasonable cost shouldn't be allowed. I think the host track should post the two tires that work the best on the track, and not allow anything else. Still allow the drivers to choose foam, since it's only $6 to $12 for a set.
For those of you that argue that tweaking the motors for more speed is half the fun, it's time for you to split to the mod class. Stock should be stock.
I've seen too many people work their way quickly out of the novice class in to stock, only to leave a few weeks later because they realize what it really takes to win. A fat wallet and years of motor tweaking experience.

[InspGadgt]

Even with off the shelf stuff you still run into the problem where people will buy 10 or 15 motors just to find that 1 that is better then all the rest. I've even ran into this problem at hand out races. Because motors are so inconsistant from motor to motor you almost have to give the racer a chance to buy another handout if they got a lemon. Perhaps when brushless technology becomes more wide spread there will be a "Stock" brushless ESC that would approximate a stock motor in over all power and speed. This would eliminate inconsistancies and provide for a better Spec class. But it is cost prohibitive...rather expensive for the novice class driver.

A spec car is a good idea in theory but often times a car is picked that cannot grow with the driver. In practice I'm against the idea. I run a somewhat spec F1 class myself but it's open to many of the different F1 chassis available. We've found that by limiting the motor to a Mabuchi/Johnson and the batteries to 1700 sport packs that the racing is very close reguardless of what chassis they are using or how many hopups they have on their car. It's pretty much come down to driver. But I would hate to have to buy a Rustler to start with in a spec novice class then have to buy a T3 or XXXT when I decide to move out of novice. I'd rather but the better truck to start with because in the long run that saves me money. Granted many people when the first get into racing can't afford to go that route initially but many of us can.

[jayskiia]

hey guys thanks for the replys. i agree that the stock class or spec class is a great idea, but the way he is doing it is all wrong. in addition he has now said no chassis mods at all, like i had to notch my servo cover so i could fit a longer servo arm under it. he says i have to replace it if i want in this class cuz i am trying to lighten the chassis. he is still firm in his belief that the box stock tires for the xxxt spec are the black ones, even though he has one sitting on his shelf showing blue tires on it.
It is the honest opinion of all the racers i have talked to lately that all he wants to do is sell parts and kits. he does not understand that the best way to do this is to just allow all out competition, things will break or people will upgrade, its that simple.

[timberwolf211]

I think that if you want a stock class some foreground rules should be in place.
Most new trucks have 20 turn motors so go with that.Tires and gearing should be up to the driver.Then limit the battery to a 1700 pack and be done with it.I really don't think a ESC can take seconds off your lap time. Maybe keep the stock electronics for the RTR trucks but if they buy a Losi or AE truck limit the ESC to a Novak explorer(example). Other than that if they want to run a mod class let them and let anything go.

[Bob-Stormer]

Claimer classes are very popular in full size racing and would work great in the situation with the Rustlers. If you have a problem with the guy that won, you think his motor is a bullet? Buy it, but don't whine about it.

What they should do is just a claimer on batterys and motors. you don't need to claim the rest, you don't need to be a rocket sceintist to see that an arm is stock or not. Motors and batteries are different.

Battery claim $15, Motor claim $20 (or whatever is the equivalent value of the motors you are using, where the races are held).

After about 3-4 weeks of claiming, the guy in last is going to finally realize that he is in last because he sucks, and the winners motor will not help him. Then things will settle down a bit. IT's just there to keep things honest.

Good Racing,
Bob

[FrankW]

I'd also like to point out that, you don't have to race there. If you don't like his rules, boycott the place, get other people to do the same. When the owner sees that noone's coming to race, maybe he'll change his tune. I find that ROAR rules are very fair, and they don't change at a whim. Also, that chassis mod rule is total BS. Just my 2 cents.

[pudder]

Yes, that box stock is a bit far fetched. At the local track here, there is mod, and stock classes for offroad vehicles I believe. That is fine with me. I am going to be starting out in mod onroad carpet this winter because my motor is a 20 turn mod, or so they say. I should really talk to the LHS owner about what class I would be in.

But c'mon, newbies should just be out for fun for the first races.

-mike

[Nutter]

Bob: these are newbie's we're talking about..
For the swapping batteries, what if one newbie overcharged his, melted all the shrink-wrap, etc off, then swapped with some guy with a new battery? Newbie's are always over-charging their batteries, or not fully discharging them so they have memory issues, etc...
The same thing goes for the motor.. what if one guy has a nice new one, and another guy has an old one, that's full of dirt, the comm is badly burned, brushes are worn, etc, and the guy with the old cruddy motor wants to swap with the guy with the new motor?

You did say the swap should be the *actual* cost of the motor or battery new, which would solve this problem.. but what the guy is saying that it will be $5 no matter what, period. If the LHS owner did charge the actual cost for a new part to swap parts, then this would be fair I think. But this is *not* what he is suggesting.


-Nutter

[pudder]

I think there should just be stock truck, mod truck, stock buggy, mod buggy, stuff like that. That is how it is here.

-mike

[jayskiia]

hey guys thanks for all the feedback. the owner is changing his tune again. i wont get into it, but i think he is starting to realize by doing this for the beginners, the experienced guys are upset. this is the only track for 2 hours in any direction. i do occaisionally run the track that is 2 hrs away, but work and $ limit the number of weekends a year i get there.

[Justin9]

well, I actually like claimer class because it keeps cost low... but 5 bucks is not high enuf... here were I live, a local track.. (real cars) has a street stock class... 400 dollars gets you a engine and tranny... or car (roller) or 900 for for eveything if it has a roll cage...

[pudder]

Okay, good to know he changed, what classes are going to be there now?

-mike