I am ditching Losi.

[bohica]

I have raced Losi vehicles since thier inception. I have always had wonderful luck with thier vehicles and support has been top notch.

That was up until 3 months ago. I broke a chassis brace set on my XXT. a $6.00 part. I go to my LHS and he has the same part (and others for XXT) backorder. So no biggie I called 71 hobby shops from here in Ky. within a 3 state radius. Every single store that carries Losi parts and kits is out of stock on that same damn brace set and has them backordered.

I called Horizon who distributes Losi and was told that they have no idea how long it will be.

I then e-mailed Losi. And described the above to them. 2 weeks, no reply. I e-mail again similar message. No reply. Once again I e-mailed them with a slightly stronger worded version and no reply.

Screw em. Too many good trucks out there to put up with such lousy service. They are slacking on XXT parts because of the release of the Triple XT.

I now have a Losi XXT with a broken chassis brace set for sale. First $50 takes it. I am going to get a new kit today....from Associated.


Bohica My e-mail (czerr@handgunner.net)

[AEAddict]

Darn right! HAIL ASSOCIATED!! I've been an associated man "all my life" 8-)

[very low budget racer]

I don't get it, because you can't find parts for a discontunued kit you are ditching the whole company's products? I mean c'mon, those braces break most often on the XXT, so they are purchased often, so they are a little hard to find. I had a losi as my first car and I will stick by them tooth and nail.

[KIWIRCGUY]

VLBR; I think you miss the main point, that being that Losi didnt answer any of the E mails. I know that companies are busy and whatnot but am also annoyed when I dont get a reply, even a computer generated one would do. I feel that if I can take the time out as did bohica, to hunt around, ring around and then finally E mail a company about their product(s) the least the can do is reply.

[59HemiHearse]

AE FOREVER!!!

[r.c.dealer]

Yuo should try ehobbie.com?

[bullfrog]

that totally sucks that they didnt reply after suc a long time! I have e mailed bolink and both times i have gotten a reply within 12 hours.

[guggi101]

OK email is not the way to go. Many companies state that you most likly won't get a reply back because they get thousands upon thousands a day. I am willing to bet that if you take that broken part stick it in the mail with a short letter you will get one back within a month for free. Losi is a top notch company so don't give up on them for one error.

[T-MAXXER]

You need to remember that the XXT is discontinued! Therefor parts are hard to find! You'll have to look in LHSs Old Box.

[Nutter]

Just so you know, from what I've been told the support guys don't have time to check the email much, only in their spare time. I've been told to just phone them, and they'll do everything they can for you immediately. :)
This is from a guy at Losi support who's on these forums, so I'm sure it's the truth.. just call them, they'll help you out.


-Nutter

[Scomp87]

Hey yo, don't dump losi. The reson they don't stock many parts is your truck is old. I have an RC10 and I darn wel can't get many parts for it, but do you see me complaining about associated's crappieness? NO!:mad: Take your dindarn part, CA it back together, then later reinforce it w/ carbon fibre strips. I have fixed my buggies like this a million times.

[pudder]

Get about 5 or so of these things, and keep them for spares, try CA'ing the broken one together. Just from one little bad experience, on an old truck, you are going to stop with Losi, that is pretty stupid sounding to me. Why don't you try to see if the DuraTrax Evader part will work on it.

-mike

[Gutter Ball]

I've had the opposite experience with them. I emailed them asking if I could purchase some parts for my XXXT diff directly from them cause my LHS couldn't get them quick enough from Horizon. (LOL, yes they are practically Horizon, but that's a different story..) They sent the parts to me within a week..for free.

[bohica]

Here is the update. I finally got to talk to a human being with some integrity at Losi on the phone.

Here is some news you can use. The reason I cant get my chassis brace set is that the machine & mold for the part is broken beyond repair. A new mold alone will cost $40K to make. They are not gonna spend the money. So if you have a XX buggy or XXT truck you are sol if you break a chassis brace.

Your only route will be to make your own parts once all the LHS's run out. Most of them have already run out. Weather you agree or not is your perogative but to me that is a ****** situation period. All other parts will still be made.

Now for the young person that mentioned gluing the part back togethor and reinforcing it, do you have a XXT? I doubt it because due to the nature of the part, its location, and the stress placed on it that is a good try, but no dice.

Thanks all for listening to my Losi rant.

Bohica

[AEAddict]

Hey Bohica' ... I've CA's an A-ARM back together... it held for 10 races !!

[pudder]

Young person, excuse me??? :mad: J/k :D

CA does usually work for a while. Try it if you have nothing to loose. You could also ask if the DuraTrax Evader one would work, email DuraTrax, they are good with answering people back.

Your truck is older, sounds like it is time to get a new one and just keep to Losi if you have had such good luck with them in the past.

-mike

[Zr2]

give me a part # i could probably find u the part for a good price in canada.
-Matt

[bohica]

Originally posted by AEAddict
Hey Bohica' ... I've CA's an A-ARM back together... it held for 10 races !!

I have to there AE but we have to interlocking parts here that install and remove seperately so it's kinda tricky. I tried CA already and it was a no go. Heck I even tried 10 to epoxy! They are all too brittle.

Pudder, seriously thanks for the suggestion bud. I know you were just trying to help.

For any curious the Losi numbe is A-4110. Any help in locating one and sending it too me would result in that person recieving a newly handbuilt 12 turn triple! I build these things for the heck of it. (I race stock) I would also of course payu for the part.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bohica

[AEAddict]

Bohica' ... try JB Weld... that crap fixes anything, and dries harder than anything. It's holding the carburetor on my dad's REAL CAR... !! 8-)

It's holding the water pump bolts onto his car tooo (real one!!)

dude.. that stuff's GREAT!! try it!! just let it cure a GOOD 24 hours!

[bohica]

Originally posted by pudder
Young person, excuse me??? :mad: J/k :D

CA does usually work for a while. Try it if you have nothing to loose. You could also ask if the DuraTrax Evader one would work, email DuraTrax, they are good with answering people back.

Your truck is older, sounds like it is time to get a new one and just keep to Losi if you have had such good luck with them in the past.

-mike

Pudder, you are correct in that my truck is older. And I can easily afford a XXXT if I wanted one. But why? My truck is A main competitive and hardly ready for retirement. Matter of fact I put it on carpet a week before I broke it and ran third in a field of 8 in a open class facing dedicated carpet racers. It's no dog.

Maybe I am just too lazy to learn a new setup! LOL!!! But I guess it is time to move on.

My offer to sell it still stands. If I get the parts before it sells i'll keep it, if it sells first and then I wind up with the parts I will send them on to the new owner. Been a while since I bought a new truck anyway.

Bohica

[ATeam]

Originally posted by AEAddict
Bohica' ... try JB Weld... that crap fixes anything, and dries harder than anything. It's holding the carburetor on my dad's REAL CAR... !! 8-)

It's holding the water pump bolts onto his car tooo (real one!!)

dude.. that stuff's GREAT!! try it!! just let it cure a GOOD 24 hours!

Boy is that the truth or what. JB Weld rocks! Rumor has it thats the stuff that holds the booster rockets on the space shuttle. They gotta use det caps to blow the stuff so the rockets will release! :D

[pudder]

I will ask a dude at the track if he can get one in, or some people that have XXT's. Let ya know on sunday.

-mike

[JitsuGuy]

That's ok if you change car/truck brands, You'll just have to get used to losing. :D

[pudder]

:p :D :cool: :confused:

-mike

[johnnybgood]

try emailing adam drake:
whenever I have a problem he is very helpful and friendly!
adamd@teamlosi.com

[Zr2]

is this is ????............LOSA4110 XX CHASSIS BRACE SET 10.95 Team Losi thats canadian and The LHS has it in stock??? e-mail me for more info kuehnmatt@hotmail.com
-matt

[pudder]

Yup, thats what he said. :)

-mike

[xxtcrgp]

heres 45 bucks.....hand it over:D

[Grant Tokumi]

Losi has a tendency to make significant changes/upgrades to their kits over time. Thats good for testing and utilizing new designs, trends, and technology, but its a double-edged sword. The drawback of purchasing such kits is that you usually get left in the dust with no parts support if you hold on to it for extended peiods of time. Whether its Losi who stops making the parts or the LHS who stops carrying it, both cases means no spare parts support for the consumer. Bohica's situation is a prime example of this.

If you are the type who likes to buy new kits once a year to keep it fresh, then Losi is a good investment. But if you are the type who would rather hold on their initial investment for years and just fix broken parts, then perhaps Losi might not be a good investment. Associated would be a better choice because they keep their design pretty much the same kit after kit, year after year, so even if your kit is old, you can usually find newer components that would fit it without much problems. I for one have owned my same RC10GT since 1996. If I went Losi, I would have a Losi GTX today, and it probably would of been forced out of service years ago because of lack of spare parts support.

I've been truly curious to try a Losi kit, but their apparent philosophy on coming out with new kits often and not supporting their older kits, and my tendency to want to hold on to and maintain my kits for long periods of time makes me very hesitant to go with Losi.

[xxtcrgp]

is it possible to put xxxt parts on xxts?

[pudder]

Doubt it, I know XXT parts fit on Evaders, but maybe Evader Parts will fit on XXT then.

-mike

[Nutter]

lol jeep, I've thought that too after I saw them on eBay aswell.. especially as I have a XXT still as a backup truck. :p


-Nutter

[Grant Tokumi]

Thanks Jeep

[pudder]

Nutter
---
BACKUP truck is your XXT, when your too scared to bash your MF XXXT? :p

-mike

[SirSpeedy]

This is nuts. The whole damn thread.

[Racin Rev]

... and there is more to life than R/C:D

the suggestion to use the Duratrax part may well be a good one. most people who have seen the Duratrax say that it is identical to the Losi, as in, they bought the design from them.

[Grant Tokumi]

If you had yourself a $3 million CNC machine, and whatever data you need to create all parts on a vehicle, then perhaps you'll have that back-up tape ability :).

Back-up tape concept would be good idea for humans as well don't you think? Damn, I broke my leg. Wheres my backup tape.

"This is nuts. The whole damn thread."

How come you feel that way Sirspeedy?

[tadium54]

that is why i will never do bussiness with tamiya or parma ever. no response to messages from their customers

[bohica]

I have sold the truck. But out of curiousity I went to ebay and used "losi" as a search term. It garnered 3 pages of results and lots of parts but no chassis brace set. BTW, some of our LHS's are obviously aware of the shortage. I found a few online that said they have the part. Of course they now want anywhere from $10.95 to $19.95 for it. Not too long ago it was $6.00. Go figure.

Bohica

[ILv2Xlr8]

Thats not logical Captian,
Such a thing does not exist...

[bohica]

Proud for ya Jeep. I guess beggers can't be choosers. I also found the graphite parts and promptly sent them along to the new owner.

It's amazing though that your gloating over A-9900 when what I was wanting was A-4110. Not everybody wants graphite friend.

one thing your post and the one following it does is show what kind of insufferable, non-helpful idiots we have in the hobby. No wonder there are only about half the LHS's there were 5 years ago. Someone asks for help and about a third of the posts are smartasses.

The only good thing to come out of this is that the guy that bought the truck could not afford to get into racing, but now he can. I sold him the truck yes. But I also gave him a ton of stuff with it. I just hope the people in his area are not like you.

Bohica

[RS4RCER]

You know Jeep has provided plenty of help and advice for people on this BB! Man if you want to make a big deal about all of this I look at it this way...You should have done your homework better...if you did You would know that LOSI often comes out with new products and not kit updates!!! On the other hand AE often makes updates and still basis alot of stuff off the RC10......


::::::::Yawn::::::::::
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[pudder]

I betcha DuraTrax Evader ones would work.

-mike

[Mr.man]

The top brace IS only $6 at horizon

http://www.horizonhobby.com/services/results.asp?prod=losa4110&prodnosearch=y

[Racin Rev]

Jeep,
Amen to that!
can you say amen somebody?!

[Poolboy51]

Amen!
Originally posted by bohica
Proud for ya Jeep. I guess beggers can't be choosers. I also found the graphite parts and promptly sent them along to the new owner.

It's amazing though that your gloating over A-9900 when what I was wanting was A-4110. Not everybody wants graphite friend.

one thing your post and the one following it does is show what kind of insufferable, non-helpful idiots we have in the hobby. No wonder there are only about half the LHS's there were 5 years ago. Someone asks for help and about a third of the posts are smartasses.

The only good thing to come out of this is that the guy that bought the truck could not afford to get into racing, but now he can. I sold him the truck yes. But I also gave him a ton of stuff with it. I just hope the people in his area are not like you.

Bohica
Your just embarrassed because people found parts with ease while you felt you needed to take radical action and sell the car and never buy from Losi again..... does the person you sold it to have the part?

And the claim that Jeep is an Idiot and is Unhelpful-
Welcome to the BB!! since if you had been here for any number of minutes than you would notice that he has posted in hundreds of threads with helpful info (unless it's the "off topic" category:D )
and was a moderator for some time.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PS
Jeep will argue for pages and pages.:D :D

[bohica]

Mr. Man, If you look a little farther you will find in red text that the part is backordered. Please read the whole thread, no flame just info.

Poolboy, yes I sent the brace kit and about a $150 worth of parts to the new owner. He got an excellant deal and is quite happy. He can now afford to race and be competitive. Before he could not. So this whole "days of our lives" saga has worked out.

Pudder, I tried the Evader parts and while close, it was a no go. Thanks anyway for the advice I had not thought of that.

Jeep, You have my apologies. No excuse for my post.

As for me, I bought 2 XXXT's and a wheelbarrow load of parts. I drove an associated truck but it was not in the same league as the XXT, IMHO.

Bohica

[HauntedMyst]

I've just been reading through this thread and am surprized there hasn't been more support for bohica's situation. We're not talking about the original JR here, we're talking about a truck that is one revision back. Just ONE! Just because his truck is a few years old doesn't mean Losi shouldn't carry the responsibility to support it any more. Most companies support their product years after it has become obsolete. Why should Losi be no different? The 40K to replace the mold is just the cost of doing business and they should swallow the cost to support the thousands and thousands of XXT owners. With HPI, you can still get parts for the F1 and original Pro, both as old or older then the XXT. My LHS has tons of B2 and T2 parts still in stock.

[ILv2Xlr8]

absolutely correct HM!

[Skribble]

Jeep, Amen to that! Can you say amen sombody?!

Amen!:D

[pudder]

Okay, too bad they didn't work. They should fix that thing, I'm sure they have well over that much to spend on stuff.

Traxxas still has parts for vehicles of what, 10 years ago? Even though I have not delt with Traxxas, nor think I will, that is some good support.

-mike

[HauntedMyst]

Originally posted by jeepinator

Would they still stock a particular part if the mold broke? Assuming the story is correct, I am guessing all the other companies would do the same thing Losi did. Not that I agree with it, but it is a hypothetical situation to claim the other RC companies would not do what Losi has done.

We don't know since I've never heard of another company breaking a mold. If they did, they made another one. To me it's an issue of integrity. You make a product, you should support it well beyond one revision away. Also, 40k to replace a mold? I have a very difficult believing the mold for that part (or parts tree) could run any where near that amount. Should they have the tree on file to run through the mold mill? Perhaps someone with mold making experiance can explain why it costs that much. When I called on Baxter, they could pump out a prototype with a push of a button on a milling machine.

[ILv2Xlr8]

drink more beer jeep!

Cheers,

<img src=http://www.stardust.ovh.org/beer.gif>

[TyceCCSU@aol.com]

I have to strongly agree with HauntedMyst, a $40,000 mold for a single part in the RC industry would far exceed the profitibility. First off, if the part costs $10, you would have to sell 4,00 parts to break even for the mold, then you have to pay for the material(s) being molded with the mold, or machined if noot plastic. Secondly, turbine engine molds are usually composed of aerospace material, be it plactic, metal or other composite. In addition aerospace molds have EXTREMELY small tolerance ranges and is the main concern when dealing with part fit. I'de be interested in the actual price for this mold

[Mongoose420]

Being in the Tool and Die industry i can accound for the price of the molds. First off is the size, considering i didnt actualy make the mold i dont know but, i have to assume that the mold for that part didnt come on a tree like static model parts. The mold that maked that part prolly had 10-15 inserts in it. A mold is not generaly just one solid piece, if it were it would be even more expencive, the mold consists of inserts with cavities for the part, gates and runners for the moltent plastic to flow between cavities and quite a few other pieces that arnt worth mentioning for this topic. So every time the press that made this mold ran 1 cycle it produced 10-15 parts. Each cavity in each insert had to be burned in with a EDM machine, the machine i currently run full time, and has to go through several steps to get a properly formed piece. The graphite electrode that conducts electricity wears as it actualy burns extremely small pieces of the metal out(were talk'n small people 1 10 of the size of a sand partical i would say) with a small bolt of electical current. This wear on the electrode cause's the edge(determins the final shape of the part) or sufrace the become out of spec. Up to 4 and 5 electrodes may be used for each insert. Figure the average cost per hour on a EDM to be $60 dollars a hour, and the average number of hours to make each insert at oh lets say 15 hours of burn time(that is just a guess) that brings us up to $900 ruffly per insert. Just the inserts alone would cost about $9000. Add all the other work that is done to these molds and it doesnt take a whole lot of imagination to see how $40,000 isnt much for a mold. Ive seen molds cost 3 or 4 times that much easily. I didnt even figure machine time for the electrodes, material cost operating overhead and finishing in the cost of each insert.

HM the reason it doesnt take long to make a prototype on a CNC milling machine is because your only makeing one part. It does take alot longer to make that one part and when your mass producing parts its just not practical.

On another note you would be extremely unhappey at the cost of one of those parts. I would be willing to bet that the cost to Losi to make that individual brace would be less than a quater packaging/marketing and all.

dont hash on me about my spelling because this is a long thread and im not gonna run spell checker on it.


If you ask why losi only had one mold making making this part is because they can produce thousands of them a day with just the one press.

My bet is the mold didnt actualy break, it just wore out! Even tho molds will break prematurely the XX has been in productions since 95/96? Thats thousands and thousands of hours, and millions of cycles.

[Mongoose420]

yea you can. you can always see where the seam between the 2 mold halfs come together,come to think about i forgot to double the number of inserts when i figured out the cost of inserts in one mold(double it!), but when the mold gets older it starts to "flash", the plastic material seeps out of the seam of the 2 molds and you can see it on a finished part and have to trim it off with a extoknife.

[servant]

I find it interesting that many of you think a company offering an entertainment product has any responsibility to offer a certain something in a certain way. Why do they have to offer parts support? It is totally up to them how they want to do business and what sort of product/services they want to offer (excluding, of course, illegal and unethical stuff).

If you say they have a responsibility to offer any parts support than, keeping the same logic, you would have to say that it would be irresponsible of them if they were to go out of business. If they want to offer a product with little parts support, and concentrate on totally new products, well that is what they offer: a product with little parts support. They do not even have to offer any product at all!

Tell me why you think Losi has any responsibility to get this part to someone.

take care,
serv

[HauntedMyst]

servent,

By your question, you appear to be ignorant of the hobby, customer service and common business sense. Since you are apparently new to the hobby, I will attempt to answer it for you.

RC Cars, particularly performance level cars like the XXT and nearly every other hobby grade car or truck has the benefits of replaceable or upgradeable parts. That's one of the primary reasons we all have them rather then the remote control cars then you see at Radio Shack and Target. Bust one of those, you are basically out of a car and $60 down the drain. They build them more for durability then performance so breakage isn't that big an issue.

Hobby grade cars and kits are an entirely different story. RC car developed in popularity because people wanted high performance level cars with replaceable and upgradeable parts. On average these kits/cars run any where from $150 to $300, up to five times the cost of the toy grade car. When Losi, or HPI or Associated release a car, it is with the consumers expectation that replacement parts will be available for it not only now, but for a long time to come. It's a built in expectation that you will be able to get replacement parts for your car. The fact that the company broke the mold shouldn’t matter to a consumer.

Any company in RC could choose not to make replacement parts for any of their cars but it would be the surest way for them to go out of business. Companies can do what they like, and run their business how they like, but ultimately, it is the consumer that buys those products. In RC, the best way to make sure your customer doesn't return is to fail to make spare parts available. I know that I, for one, wouldn't buy a product from a company that didn't provide replacement parts. Would you? If your RC car broke and you couldn't get a part for it, what would your reaction be? To think, "They don't have to make the part for me, I'll just spend $300 on a new one.

For that matter, if Losi isn't responsible to have parts available for their active customer base, why should GM, Ford or Chrysler be responsible for making replacement parts for their cars? You don't absolutely need a full size car, so ultimately, they are for entertainment. You could walk to where ever you needed to go or take the bus. So given that point of view, why should Ford, GM or Chrysler be responsible to make replacement parts?

[Uncle JT]

Ya know, one of my all time favorite acronyms has to be BOHICA. Bend Over Here It Comes Again.

;-P

[Mongoose420]

i see his point but as HM said it was not found'd. Its a matter of business ethics(if there is such a thing anymore). Thats why customer service is such a big part of a company and the head dogs in the customer service depts. at some of these big companys get paid so much. In business your only as good as your precieved to be. Unfortunatly microshaft doesnt fit that mold because i think there products are garbage and buy em anyway but thats a whole other tread and i dont want to get myself started on another tirade! Anyway for any company selling this complicated a product its bad for business not to offer parts support. Thats why in every thread on this board when someone ask's "what brand should i buy?" someone is smart enough to say get what you can localy get parts for. In this area AE own losi because were outside of losi's part distribution for some reason. Not because the losi or ae kits are better than the other but because to be win you have to be as fast as possable and be as consistant as possable. Hard to win when your cars in the pitts broke while your still at the drivers stand.

But back to the original question about losi. There is no way they could sell enough of that individual part to make up for the 40g's they would have to spend on the mold unless they designed that part into a new kit, whitch i think they could do with little difficulty by using the modern material in the same shape.

[pudder]

Wow, this is some discussion. I guess what some people are saying, it is old, and they have a newer truck out so they dont really need to make the new mold, I agree on that point, but the people who need these parts and are hard to find kinda get bet over and raped on this one.

How long has the XXXT been around and how long has the T3?

-mike

[HauntedMyst]

PRESS RELEASE FROM GENERAL MOTORS

General Motors announces today that it will no longer support the previous version Corvettes. Unfortunately, the mold to make a few critical pieces was busted when a janitor working in the mold storage room got goofed up on hootch and knocked over the mold, breaking it in the process. As a result, we will be unable to provide certain parts for cars 1985 through 2000. All owners of cars produced during those years are encouraged to upgrade to the latest model. GM will not be offering any sort of incentive or rebate to late model owners to upgrade. When asked about the situation, the president of GM said "Well, I guess the owners of those cars are just SOL. The Corvette is really just an entertainment item, we feel no need to support it with parts and service. Besides, do you have any idea how much those molds cost to make? 40 grand! Thats a butt load of money and I don't want that coming out of our profits!" Year 2001 and 2002 owners need not worry since their models are not affected by the incident.

[servant]

Haunted,

Focus on the fact that I talked about it in terms of "responsibility." I do not think that we are really very far apart here. My point is that it is not any ones responsibility (apart from, of course, stated promises such as warranties, etc.). Mongoose said, "Its a matter of business ethics," but what I am saying is that it is NOT a matter of ethics. Good business (in the sense of a successful business), yes. It is always smart to meet and surpass your customers expectations.

To further explain what I mean follow: Curtis and Yurada began AE and later it was Curtis and Husting that brought AE into the RC realm. Why did they do this? Because they wanted to. It was a business venture that they chose to do. Then they made a product for what reason? Because they wanted to. They chose to make something and market it. So now that they have done all this because they wanted to, why do they suddenly have a responsibility to offer parts, more products, or even continue doing anything at all (again, ignoring promises such as warranties, etc.)!?

Your example of full size cars. Exactly. They do not have to offer any support for their vehicles.
HM-"Any company in RC could choose not to make replacement parts for any of their cars but it would be the surest way for them to go out of business. Companies can do what they like, and run their business how they like, but ultimately, it is the consumer that buys those products"
The only real difference between full size cars and RC cars here, is the fact that NO ONE would EVER buy a real car if they knew there was no aftermarket support from the manufacturer. That is obvious. Just look at the promises (warranties) themselves. All that is by the manufacturers choice (ignoring some state laws, of course). No body has a responsibility to do so, but if you want to be competitive, you have to.

Everyone has the right to offer any sort of (legal/moral) product/service that they darn well please, with any sort of (legal/moral) pre- and post-sale stipulations that they darn well please. And everyone else has the right to buy, not buy, or try to change their product/service/stipulations. That is (very) basically what our capitalistic free market is all about.

Jeep summed it up well, "They can chose to not support old kits if they want. You can chose not to buy from them if you want. "

HM- "It's a built in expectation that you will be able to get replacement parts for your car. The fact that the company broke the mold shouldn’t matter to a consumer."

A built in expectation is called an assumption. Now when I go to a restaurant I EXPECT good service. The more expensive the place, the more I expect form EVERY aspect of the restaurant. But they do not have to meet my expectations. And having been in the restaurant business I have high expectations, so often they do not. Oh well for them. Now if the mold breaking should not matter to the consumer, where do you stop with that. What if their place burnt down? Should that matter, or should they still have to offer all their services to their customers? The only difference between the two scenarios is one of magnitude.

Well, my wife is calling so I guess that means that is all I have to say for now! :)
Cheers,
serv

[Mongoose420]

Jeep i have no doubt that over time they would be able to make back more than the cost of the mold. But in 3 yrs or less the XXX line will be old news and that makes the XX old old news. Thats give losi 3 yrs to make back there money on the number of XX kits that are still being used not the ones that are out there just collecting dust. I see that they could easily make the money on paper with the number of parts they would have to produce to make money with the number of kits sold. Its still a gamble because there is no way to know how many of these XX kits are even operational or how many are still being run now let alone how many will still be needing parts over the next couple a years.

and i did consider it

[pudder]

Originally posted by jeepinator
You just gotta keep hitting the submit button like mad.

Thgis server is obviously getting overloaded...

Ya, what is up with that?

I'm almost at 2000, would be if I replied in other threads. :D

-mike

[HauntedMyst]

servent,

Whether you see it as a matter of ethics or not I guess would depend on your interpretation and personal application of the word "ethics" which in part is defined as the discipline dealing with what is good and bad ... the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group pr <professional ethics> a guiding philosophy. As a business owner myself, I consider myself to be primarily responsible for my part with due diligence towards customers satisfaction. Example. I choose to do portraits. I enjoy doing portraits. A client orders a shoot and prints. A year later they call me up because their 4 yr old has torn the pictures and I can't find the negative or it was destroyed in a flood. Some would just tell them "Oh well, you are just SOL" or you could make the choice I would make which for me would be to go to the expense of digitally recreating the picture from what they have or offering to do a reshoot, either out of my pocket. Do I have too? No. Would I choose that? Yes. I would feel a sense of responsiblity towards my customer. They paid for a shoot. They have the expectation that I would safely store the negative and would be able to provide additional prints.

To use jeeps summary "They can chose to not support old kits if they want. You can chose not to buy from them if you want. " Whether or not they choose to support a kit one revision back or not us up to them, and a matter of their guiding business ethics. Some people will accept whatever any one tells them2, others expect a higher standard. I would expect Losi to display a higher standard then what they have shown with Bohica.

[r.c.dealer]

Well then I geuss GM should still make parts for the Pontiac Fiero! Also companies should make modern tv's, vcr's, dvd players, video game systems, and other electronics acually fixable.

[Endaar]

Simple (and possibly naive) question for those of you who know... Are the graphite braces that are apparently readily available a direct fit replacement for the composite pieces that aren't being made anymore? And if so, wouldn't that satisfy whatever "responsibility" some of you feel Losi has to provide indefinate parts support for their kits?

Endaar

[Railman]

I also wonder how many XX's are still in use. We have 5 ourself, but only 2 are still run, & that's only on occasion. The problem is that because of the cars design, many XX parts broke on a regular basis, & will continue to do so on kits that are in use.
If your a competetive racer, it's no big deal that Losi doesn't support their old equipment, but that's not the point. What about the average person, who doesn't race, or kid who bought a racers old car? ThE XX is not that old. A lot of people paid good money for the Kinwald kits only a few years ago. For that matter I wonder how many XX's are still on dusty shelves being sold today? Wouldn't that be sweet for the guy that bought one last week, & broke a brace today? I think that because it an industry that thrives on replacement parts, it's only right to continue support for a while. It's just that kind of business. How long is another story. What sounds reasonable to you? If it takes 3 years for Losi to recoup it's expenses on the mold, so what! XX kits will be running a lot longer than that. That's just the price of staying in a business that relies on part sales. Maybe if they spent a little less on advertising & sponsorship, they could support their customers better.
Again, isn't there a way to rebuild a mold, rather than building from scratch? Or build one cheaper for more limmited use?
Joe

[Railman]

RCdealer, How many years do you suppose that GM supplied replacement parts for the Fiero? I bet more than three! Anyway it's hard to compare RC hobby with vcr's & such. The labor to repair an old vcr makes it obsolete, not the parts. Besides, they aren't sold to be bashed like rc cars are. It's a different business. I guess all the old XX Losi kits on the shelf should be sold with a disclaimer saying that maintainance parts aren't available for them?:rolleyes:
In the long run Losi will be better off supporting their equipment.
Joe

[r.c.dealer]

Well a car comany like GM usually supports products years after the disconuation of a model becuase they usually forsee a need for spare parts in there business model. They don't endlessly stamp out front fenders for a discontiued model. They usually produce enough spare parts based on the popularity of model. Alot of GM cars share similar parts.

I agree that Losi should support there vehicles long after dicontinuation of a particular RC car, especially if its a vehicle designed particularly for racing instead of bashing.. Of course I think that all hobby quality rc cars should be well supported, especially a popular racing buggy like the XX. If you can find the parts on ebay then buy them up, instead of complaining. There probably is a wharehouse some where filled with parts waiting to be discovered. Wasn't Losi bought up by Horizon Hobby? Maybe thats why the car isn't well supported. If it hurts there bottom line, and don't think they will recuop the cost of producing the parts then they won't supply the parts for the older kits. Don't forget it costs time, money, and energy to produce those parts. Should they take a gamble and throw out a ton of money for becuase you can't find a part?

:confused:

My opinion, please don't hate me becuase I am correct!;)

[r.c.dealer]

Oh yeah RailMan, the labor is not what makes fixing a vcr obsolete. Its the fact that if you can miraculously find the parts to repair your VCR the parts and labor would probably cost more than a new one. If a chip goes bad well then its time for the trash heap.

[Railman]

RcDealer, You just concurred with my point about the vcr repair. It's not worth it to repair a vcr (in most cases). However it is worth it to repair a xx, that is if the parts are available. That's the real issue. In my opinion that's the business that Losi is in. They are in the parts business, just as much as they are in the kit business. The same cannot be said for vcr manufacturers. If some of the parts are no longer available for the xx, then what good are all the other xx parts on the dealers shelves? Won't be selling them either, if you can't get the missing widget. That has to at least be considered. I'm not saying they should supply them indefinately, but the xx is still fairly new, & competetive.

As far as hating you, you don't have to worry. Their isn't a reason to!:D
Joe

[HauntedMyst]

The amazing thing to me is that there are people out there who think Losi's position of leaving XXT owners out in the lurge is ok. I can't help but be curious why you would think its ok to give your hard earned money to a company with this position? Has this country become so dumbed down that we're just content to toss our money at anyone, regardless of service level?

[r.c.dealer]

Welcome to the world of cost cut engineering, free trade, 10cent labor in china, throw away appliances, and planned obsolesence.

Losi probably doesn't support the XX becuase of planned obsolesence. If they don't keep up supply of parts for there older buggies or racing trucks then they think you will spend your money on the latest greatest thing. I agree that the XX is still a competetive buggy in racing, and Losi should support it with parts.

The mold thing doesn't make sense. Tamiya has been producing the Sand Scorcher, Monster beetle (blitzer beetle) body since the 1980. There have only been a slight revision to the mold(molded in door handles) for the Monster Blitzer Beetle version. If you noticed on the Inside of the Monster or Blitzer Beetle body you can see the markings where the Sand Scorcher mounting holes where, The one on the hood is real faint!

[r.c.dealer]

Its planned obsolesence!! They limit parts production so that when there new stuff comes out you will buy there new stuff.
Yah thats the ticket yah!

[servant]

Mr. Myst,

As I suspected, it would appear that we are really not that far apart here.

You make a good point regarding the definition and application of "business ethics." Definitions are virtually always a place of trouble for any discussion. I understand business ethics to have more to do with right and wrong. Business morals. It seams to me that these can easily be confused with "business values." Almost always closely related but still different. Values are things that are not necessarily right or wrong, but rather issues that are important to a company. Customer service is a business value. Nobody has to offer any customer service but companies value success and a big part of success is good customer service, so most companies value customer service. Then of course there is having certain values just because it is important to you. Such as what you described with your own business. That is how I personally feel too. I like to offer superior customer service just because it is important to me. The fact that it generally produces success is more of a perk in my own mind.

HM- “The amazing thing to me is that there are people out there who think Losi's position of leaving XXT owners out in the lurge is ok. I can't help but be curious why you would think its ok to give your hard earned money to a company with this position?”

I think you are understanding that my point is that there is nothing wrong with them having the values they have. You (and me for that matter!) may seem to disagree with what they hold important, but that does not mean they are wrong. And on top of that, I highly doubt any of us really has a solid idea of all the different factors involved in Losi’s decision. They probably don’t like not being able to offer parts support either. I am of the opinion that the people over at Losi are just plain old people just like you and me. As a company they have placed value on certain aspects of the industry and less value on other aspects. And I am sure they have looked into being able to produce these parts and did not feel it would be worth it. Do you really think they are over there saying, “we can feasibly do it, but we get a kick out of leaving our customers out in the lurge.” Well, certainly they could feel that way! That would be pretty sad.

One of the big problems with saying any company should offer certain post sale products/support is, who decides to what extent they should. Take our situation with Losi. Right now, you, HM, say that they are hanging people out to dry. Well, tell me then, when can they stop offering support for this vehicle (even disregarding the broken mold, which is a bit of an anomaly)? Seriously. Tell me how long they have to continue, what parts they have to offer, and how you determined this. Are you seeing my point here? Until there is absolutely no one left in the world that is driving one of these buggies, some one will be FOL (F? I don’t like to cuss :) ).

HM- “Has this country become so dumbed down that we're just content to toss our money at anyone, regardless of service level?”

Unfortunately, to an extent, yes. It seams to me anyways. The 90’s have been referred to as the decade of customer service. Many marketing campaigns put a lot of focus on that aspect. Think of McDonald’s “We love to see you smile.” Walmart’s, “How can I help you?” But at the same time it would seem consumers often do not care in the end. Again look at Walmart. All they really offer is a large selection of mediocre quality products at low prices and a no questions return policy. Customer service? Sheesh!! But last year they put every other nation wide department store in its place.

And I have a little personal story that I am not proud of but probably represents the mass majority well. My wife and I registered at Target for our wedding a few years ago and had an awful experience when it came time to return all those duplicate gifts. Basically they had mislead us into this position where they were then telling us we could not return anything else. I was furious because it was stupid policy anyway and it WAS THEIR FAULT that we were misinformed about it all. And to top it off, they would do nothing about it!! It still makes me seethe! I was determined to pursue a nasty campaign against them and formulated some ideas of how to go about it. The end? Never really did much except readily share the story with others, and was back shopping there in a few months.

Okay, this post is WAY long enough! Take care! :)
serv

[Mongoose420]

jeep hit the nail right on the head. Its all about the dollars and cents of it. If losi thinks they 'can' make money by rebuilding/refurbishing/replacing the mold they would prolly do it. But for losi to take a $40k risk on it is another story and thats just what there number crushers told them i would think.

as for the mold if it were something as simple as a few of the inserts have gone bad they would just cap off the runners to those inserts and run the remaining inserts in the mold to still produce the parts so this tells me the mold prolly crashed and is basicly destroyed.

As for the monsterbeetle mold im sure they have replaced it serval times over w/minor modifications. They could do that because they planned to design a new kit to be released with that body over and over so the ability to make the profit is much higher.


I think im gonna let this thread die now. so i will summerize

buy from losi or dont based on this its totaly up to you, we live in a consumer world and basicly what we say goes. You want to change losi's position buy from AE and tell losi why, get enough people to say that and it will change. It will change because thats profit loss and thats all the inverstors care about!

thank you and good night ;)~

[Racin Rev]

Why don't y'all call HG or Hardcore, or Robinson, they work in aluminum and titanium. Their material costs are high but their ability to produce small runs of product is enabled by their use of metals and the use of computerized milling machines (the name of which escapes me now). If someone could convince them of a need for the item it would be easier to mill one out of metal than for losi to manufacture another mold. If they saw a way to make money on it they would certianly make it. Has anyone checked Trinity to see if they have the item in alum?

[Mongoose420]

CNC milling machines (Computer Numaric Controll)

ok last post EJECT EJECT!

[Racin Rev]

"ok last post EJECT EJECT!"

Huh? :confused:

[RS4RCER]

1229 views with 120 replys man this thread has gotten huge!

[hpiguy]

Custom molds for injection plastic cost about 50 to 2,000 bucks and the machine costs about 1,000 bucks for a small industrial one, I'm guessing Losi' machine was about 15,000 or 20,000 based on industrial supply catalogs.

Am I the only guy that made the plastic screwdrivers, plier handles, and other products in shop class in high school?

We even designed a plastic injection mold for pens and had it cut for us. They charged the school 500 dollars for it, of which we sold the pens to pay it back and for a profit in our marketing class. This mold made 50 pen halves at a time and it is still in use more than a decade later making pens that I have recently bought at an alumni function.

Molds usually aren't made by hand anymore from hand cut castings unless your company is in the dark ages. Back then they cost about 10,000 but only for the trickiest of molds for medical and aerospace equipment. Not a TOY car part. And those were for molten metal, not plastic which flows liquid at the heat from a match.

Now a days the design is booted up in a computer and the mold is cut from it's core block by water, lasers or both.

There's no way Losi has to pay 40K to make a new plastic mold. Look at how many people sell cheap plastic trinkets they make at home. Are they buying 40K molds? I don't think so!

"The mold broke." just sounds nicer than "We aren't gonna reset an assembly line and dedicate an injector to sell 100 parts of a discontinued kit."

Losi got bought out by Horizon and shut down the XX part lines to save costs and to support the new XXX products fully.

Plain and simple.

[crazy1]

The NXT/GXT is also not supported any more. The tranny brace for this truck. Did they break this mold too? Yeh probably with a sledge hammer. I was saving up money for a new xxx-nt. When I could no longer by the part I needed was forced to buy a used truck to be able to run. Guess what I bought? One hint, the only stadium truck that you can build from scracth from aftermarket parts. RC10GT. LOSI you just lost a kit sale and a lot of part sales. A kit is a mager investment for me. If I can't trust you to provide parts why should I buy one of yours?

[r.c.dealer]

hpiguy, please clarify for all of us. You know these two things as fact?

Well Losi was bought up by Horizon Hobby, you yardang!;)

[r.c.dealer]

Cornhole?:confused:

They stopped making parts for there older kits becuase they think people will buy there new kits if the parts for the old kits are hard to find.

When Horizon Hobby bought up Team Losi they did some cost cutting, and parts support for there older kits was on the chopping block. You know they have to pay Kinwald and there other team drivers some how! Wasn't Team Losi in financial trouble and that was one of the reasons why Team Losi was sold to Horizon Hobbies, and wouldn't it make sense that they would do some cost cutting to start making money. If something is not profitable then they will eliminate unessesary expenses!



:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[r.c.dealer]

Owe yah he he he!
The Great Cornjulio!
:D

[Poolboy51]

Yeah comparing Losi to GM is kinda unfair. Losi employs about 30 people. GM employs 300,000 atleast. I imagine Team Losi makes $1,000,000 and GM must make $3,000,000,000 per year. Ofcourse they must make replacement pats. It's cuz they can!:D

[hpiguy]

Jeep: And BTW you always have to play devil's advocate don't you. :D

Do I know this as fact? NOPE

Does common sense tell us this? YES

If Losi pays 40K for molds then the average Losi vehicle costs well over $1,000,000 just for the molds for EACH AND EVERY new kit for EACH AND EVERY new or revised part.

Add to that the supposed high costs of these injection machines as stated earlier by others and you are looking at an assembly line cost of approx. 2.4 million.

Then include the labor, R&D, sponsorships, travel, taxes and marketing and lets give a round about figure based on article in RCCA of how much these drivers make and the cost of factory employees, sales programs, etc. and we have a nice figure of 5 million per kit.

That means that at the Losi wholesale price of 175 dollars per kit to the dealers they have to sell 28,571 kits to even recoup the production and research cost. FOR EACH KIT. Losi sells how many different vehicles right now? 4 or 5? And they redo or completely replace these kits every what 18 months?

Losi doesn't sell that many kits fast enough to recoup their costs to pay back themselves. Let alone sell that many kits fast enough to make a profit. Losi MIGHT sell 28,000 of each kit eventually but not fast enough to make it profitable.

So no, I don't know for a fact that they don't spend 40K per mold, but it is highly unlikely that they do based on simple business economics.

As for the production lines being turned over to the XXX vehicles. YES I do know that for a fact. One of the Losi drivers made a comment on the Tech Talk boards that Losi had stopped ALL parts for the XX series to work on the XXX series because they just don't have the machines and people to keep working on two different lines for ALL of the kits.

[HauntedMyst]

Originally posted by hpiguy

If Losi pays 40K for molds then the average Losi vehicle costs well over $1,000,000 just for the molds for EACH AND EVERY new kit for EACH AND EVERY new or revised part.


Actually, I don't think this is correct since most parts reside on a parts tree, so I doubt it runs even half that much for a whole cars worth of molds.

[bohica]

Wooohaaaa! Man look at this thread O' threads. I recieved an interesting e-mail from someone at associated yesterday saying that they are printing this thread in it's entirety and taking it into a meeting there for review.

While I am a die hard Losi fan (yes, even after this debacle) it's nice to see SOMEBODY in the industry is paying attention to us. Maybe I should give Associated another try.

Here is the text of the e-mail.

>>"Just to let you know... I'm printing out your entire thread and taking it to our company lunch meeting this week.
We feel that long-term parts availability, and a clearly-defined,
affordable upgrade path is essential to earn our customer's continued
support and confidence.
We hear you... loud and clear!!!

XXXX XXXX
Advertising and Promotions
Team Associated" <<

Bohica

[Racin Rev]

wow! I wouldn't have thought that industry people payed that (or any) attention to these postings.

[Conman]

Holy crap this is a huge thead.

I have had an AE RC10T thats right I said "T".
I give AE a lot of credit for making a great truck. I know for a fact that I pound teh sh*t out of my truck every summer and nothing ever breaks.
But I know that AE has godd support and that I could replace any part on it if it did break.

AE FOREVER!!!!!

[r.c.dealer]

Here's a suggestion for Associated. When are you going to release your own RC monster truck? Maybe the RC8GMT!!
(RC 1/8 gas Monster Truck)
That would be cool!!!:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Conman]

I'll drink to that.

[Conman]

Oh OH better yet! AE should make an RC10GMT
1/10 gas monster truck.
To compete with the T-Maxx.:eek:

[servant]

Bohica,

that is awesome to hear! Remember how they were also extremely helpful with Jeep regarding his graphite RC10 kit? These things are pretty much making me decide on AE for a gas racing truck. That is so awesome to hear that they care so directly.

Lest you misunderstand my "rantings" in this thread that may sound somewhat unsympathetic, all I have been trying to say is that Losi, and anybody else, has the right to cunduct their business (products, service, etc.) however they want. And WE can leave THEM hanging out to dry, if we don't like it.

A perfect example: ME. Losi was previously my top pick for a racing truck, and I am getting close to the purchase. NO MORE! I am now pretty set on the RC10GT, simply because of the recent stories I have heard. I sure don't want a truck that will not be supported in a few years.

Be good and have fun!
serv :)

[Grant Tokumi]

Bohica,
Thats pretty cool that company representativs are out there listening and even responded to you. Judging by their kits, I figured Associated has that "long-term parts availability, and a clearly-defined, affordable upgrade path" high on their priority list.

Jeep,
For most companies the #1 priority is to make money, but like I saw on "Clear and Present Danger", drug guys use legitimate businesses and lose money in an effort to hide their drug profits. Or others lose money to help with taxes. :). That being said ......... maybe, just maybe, Losi is intentionally making people unhappy in an effort to hide some other type of income eh? What do you think? Conspiracy!! hahahah. Just joking.

[servant]

G. T., I think you are on to something. :p

[Nutter]

Well I was staying out of this mostly.. but now I can't resist.. ;)

For me, I love buying new kits to build, the latest and the greatest. If Losi was to spend $40k to replace every mold that's broken for an outdated kit, that'd push the price up substantially for every kit - not acceptable! Kits are already far too expensive for my liking. I, and many other racers buy the latest kit every time it comes out (and some buy a new one every year), that repeat business I'm sure is one of the biggest money-makers for the manufacturers, not the people who buy a racing kit once & keep it for 5+ years (XXT's age..). Yes, some people do keep them that long and still use them (I have an old XXT still even, although it's hardly used now), but the number of sales they make from those who are constantly buying new ones must be far, far greater, and to keep the price for these new kits lower is a MAJOR thing.

And think of it this way - Jeep, you love vintage r/c's.. if the manufacturers were to keep making all these old parts, there'd be nothing rare about vintage r/c's.. you could just go out & buy all the parts to make one.


-Nutter

[Poolboy51]

true dat!:D

[Railman]

Nutter's Quote:
"And think of it this way - Jeep, you love vintage r/c's.. if the manufacturers were to keep making all these old parts, there'd be nothing rare about vintage r/c's.. you could just go out & buy all the parts to make one."
-Nutter


I can understand about the vintage cars, but is a 3 yr old car vintage? I think not! They sold that car 3 yrs ago with the publics understanding that they would supply parts for it. That what makes them different than Radio Shack or Tyco. This isn't throw away stuff they are selling. I repeat... three years isn't vintage! How much do you suppose Losi would have to charge for a Kit if the bashers & occasional users didn't buy their kits? We may find out in the end.
Joe

[r.c.dealer]

Don't most manufacturers make extra parts anyways and package them to sell as spares during the production of there kits?

If Losi is going to make there old kits obsolete by discontinuing parts production, they should have at least a good supply of packaged spare parts to distribute to the retailers that sell there products.

[Poolboy51]

Jeep- I think your stereotyping is correct. A guy/worker @ a track I went to literaly told me, to be competitive I should buy a losi. He shook his head when I told him that I had a Duratrax Evader. I thought "***?!" and now I'm suping up my Evader to beat the precious Losi's.:D


PS
I would not consider a XX or a XX-T a "vintage"car!:rolleyes:

[bohica]

Jeep, while I mostly agree with your stereotype it certainly does not fit me. I raced that old XXT till parts got scarse.:D

I am e-mailing Losi a copy of the AE e-mail and the link to this thread. I really don't expect a response as they have never answered the 3 previous e-mails sent to them concerning this issue but it's worth a try. As posted before the info I got from Losi was via phone. I may call them again and tell em' it's coming.

Bohica

[ThirdRail]

I too am disgruntled with LOSI
Adios

[servant]

Originally posted by Nutter
And think of it this way - Jeep, you love vintage r/c's.. if the manufacturers were to keep making all these old parts, there'd be nothing rare about vintage r/c's.. you could just go out & buy all the parts to make one.
-Nutter [/B]

I would not consider a XX or a XX-T a "vintage"car!

I can understand about the vintage cars, but is a 3 yr old car vintage? I think not!

I think yall missed Nutter's point with that example. Think of it this way: if AE were still making all the replacement parts for the RC10 in would not be a classic. Or say they just stopped making parts a couple years ago; it would put the classic status further out. How long do they need to keep making parts?

One of the big problems with saying any company should offer certain post sale products/support is, who decides to what extent they should. Take our situation with Losi. Right now, you, HM, say that they are hanging people out to dry. Well, tell me then, when can they stop offering support for this vehicle (even disregarding the broken mold, which is a bit of an anomaly)? Seriously. Tell me how long they have to continue, what parts they have to offer, and how you determined this. Are you seeing my point here? Until there is absolutely no one left in the world that is driving one of these buggies, some one will be FOL

Those of you that think Losi should still be making the parts, answer the above question. Seriously.

be good and have fun! :)
serv

[Grant Tokumi]

I agree with Jeep's "stereotype". Specifically:

"Losi buyers tend to buy the latest thing and discard the old, "Out with the old, in with the new". Losi apears to have a larger serious racer following, who probably would not be racing an "older" kit."

This seems to match Nutter's mentality. I'm not saying thats a bad thing. I figured as well that Losi just went ahead and targeted people like Nutter. Hardcore racing crowd. Those that WOULD buy new kits on a regular basis. For those kinds of people, Losi kits are ideal. Once the kit starts to get a bit used up with lots of slop, etc, a new kit is introduced, new technology every time. Perfect scenario for those types of racers. Keep in mind that Losi designers are only human too, changes aren't alway for the better. But at least they try and test the waters to see what works and what doesn't. And its works out great for Losi as well because they get regulars buying new kits, and also have a good BETA tester group to compare the old kits with the new.

Thats a valid philosophy in my opinion, but may not suit newbie guys who are out to buy a kit to play around once a month.

[Nutter]

This seems to match Nutter's mentality.
Bwaha, nuttyness is contageous! ;)


-Nutter

[Hairball]

Originally posted by bohica
Here is the update. I finally got to talk to a human being with some integrity at Losi on the phone.

Here is some news you can use. The reason I cant get my chassis brace set is that the machine & mold for the part is broken beyond repair. A new mold alone will cost $40K to make. They are not gonna spend the money. So if you have a XX buggy or XXT truck you are sol if you break a chassis brace.



This is a BS excuse. A company that pays the salaries of drivers like Brian Kinwald and Matt Francis could EASLIY afford 40K for a new machine.

They just are stingy, and have very interesting business tactits, like rule #1 "screw the customer" rule #2 "6 month after a new kit comes out, release tons of graphite parts for it that all together add up to more than the original kit costs"

*** is up with that kit of stuff anyway? Or am I the only one that noticed?

[OldskoolGT]

Hi all,

Just thought I would put in my $0.02 in so that this thread may never die. Making a new mold for that chassis brace would not cost $40K more like $4K or less for all the work involved. I used to work for a OEM manufacturer of parts for the computer industry, specializing in injection molding, so I know the costs associated with mold making.

[r.c.dealer]

Its called planned obsolesence. They come out with a new kit, and stop supporting the old kit. People can't find parts for the old kit so they fork over money for the new kit. Plain and simple! They make the old kit obsolete! Whether or not the new version is of better performance than the old version who knows!:rolleyes:

[SirSpeedy]

Originally posted by jeepinator
. I just don't see AE doing all that silly crap.


Go to a big race. Billy and Mark use split wieght oil...drill pistons....run odd tires...(Billy won the WC's with Losi taperpins front and rear a coupel years ago)....drill different holes in the tower for camberlink positions....fill bulkheads with lead....the list goes on.

Just because Losi has Matt spewing setups left and right on the TT, does not mean that AE does not do any fine tuning and experimentation. That is pretty ignorant to think that the race team just shows up and throws it out with some "kit" setup and contends for the win.

But hey......who are you trying to convince on this BB? Anyone who can spell properly and use a little punctuation is a certified expert around here.

[TyceCCSU@aol.com]

Sir Speed says "Billy won the WC's with Losi taperpins front and rear a coupel years ago"

Then goes on to say "Anyone who can spell properly and use a little punctuation is a certified expert around here "

hmmmmmm...lol

[chizzler]

that stinks, my xxt graphite is 3 years old and never been raced, eh, back in the box it goes now.....:D

[servant]

Originally posted by jeepinator
Mostly it stems from my disbelief that someone could be good enough to notice that small a difference in shock oil. Sometimes I think I am imagining things with going 5 higher or lower. To be able to see half that is pretty amazing!... ...It really does make sense that the best racers in the world are splitting hairs and trying creative things. Losi markets that stuff though. It is quite easy to make 27.5 shock oil ... it takes Losi to SELL it though. ...

Hey Jeep, I highly doubt anyone in the whole world could feel any difference in 2.5 points of oil weight! But what I suppose is that a pro driver out doing some serious practicing is timing his laps and is good enough behind the Tx to get very consistant laps. Then he goes and makes a big suspension change (ups the oil weight by 2.5!) and notices that his laps are consistantly .5 second faster. That's my guess. :)

BTW, I see your point about, "it takes Losi to SELL it though."! :D

be good and have fun!
serv

[BLAZINB3]

Can't blame you a bit. You'll be happier in an AE!!!