LOSI XXX-4 Forum v1.0

[banditwing]

Well it looks like you like the xxx-4!
If it was between the b4 and the xxx-4 and they were the same price, I think I would go with the XXX-4. Yet the XXX-4 is close to $300, while the b4 is around low $200 for a FT (supposedly). How much is the Signiture edition of the xxx-4 going to cost?:eek:

I think the price is what is holding me back from going ahead and deciding on the xxx-4. Another thing, what is the ground clearance like on the 4wd buggy? (compared to say, a 2wd buggy or stadium truck).

-Thanks a lot

[igozoom]

Yeah, I guess I am upside down over the xxx-4. The funny thing is, I'm a Nitro Ho yet I enjoy driving the xxx-4 more than any other vehicle I've owned.

I know nothing about the B-4 so I can't give you an intelligent answer. I have only owned Losi vehicles. Maybe Cabbynate or NitroOwnsYou will pipe up.

Ground clearance is slightly better than a 2WD buggy, but nowhere near an NT or an XT.

As far as I know, a sig kit has not been released. As for price, you can find the xxx-4 for 239-249 if you look around.

As for price....everything in this hobby is expensive. I just bought the new Turbo 35 GFX, which is about the same as an 1/8th scale RTR buggy. I still shudder when I look at the receipt.

The only other thing I can suggest is try to find someone that has both vehicles and drive them. I only drove a xxx-4 for two laps before deciding to buy one. Now I'm a xxx-4 junkie. I would race it in any class gas or electric.

While this vehicle is designed for racing, the fun factor is HUGE.

Good luck with your choice. Let us know if you have any more questions and we will try to help.

[AllenJO]

I own a B3, T3, an extensively hopped-up HPI Nitro MT, and a XXX-4. Have always loved 4WD and love buggies. Watched a friend run his XX-4 around our track, and was amazed at it's handling and speed, and, like Will Smith in ID4, I said "I gotta get me one of these!", but actually I meant the about-to-be-released XXX-4. Best of both worlds between an NMT and B3: agility and speed of a buggy but with 4WD grip. But it goes beyond that: the XXX-4 is absolutely the finest off-road vehicle that I've ever driven. Like Igozoom, I have several off-road vehicles and I take them all to the track and run them, but it's the XXX-4 that I most like to run, and run the most. I'm in love, too.

B3 vs XXX-4: B3 may sit lower to the ground than the XXX-4, but not by much. XXX-4 is alot heavier but that's due to 4WD. If you've had no experience with 4WD, you'd have to relearn how to handle jumps (something that I didn't have to do since I also own a NMT) due to the added weight forward associated with 4WD. But having said that, the XXX-4 jumps as well as a B3, and probably higher and farther due to the 4WD.

As to durability: There was a real problem with the plastic used to manufacture the original lot of shock towers and suspension arms for the XXX-4. I broke a front A-arm and rear shock tower in minor mishaps. Losi fixed that problem and replaced my parts for free. I haven't broken anything since and I run my car several days a week. But then again, I don't spend alot of time trying to jump quads or testing the hardness of boards. But honestly, if you were to ask me which is more durable -- B3/B4 or XXX-4 -- I'd say B3/B4. The B3 and T3 are tanks and Associated builds a durable product. But neither are 4WD, and that says more than you know. 4WD vehicles are more complex and necessarily have alot more parts, and are more fragile, but their speed and handling are usually out of this world (why is it that you don't see ANY 2WD touring cars?). Depends on what you like and are willing to pay for. I'll pay extra, if need be, to run an XXX-4. My B3 is now a neglected step-child. But I'm also sure that you won't go wrong with a B4.

By the way, if you're not dead set on getting the newest and the best, wait until the B4 actually is released. When that happens, you'll likely be able to purchase used-but-good B3s on EBay for a pittance (from those who want to upgrade to the B4 at any cost).

[cabbynate]

A-Men!!!!!
http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/party/ylsuper.gif

[jforkner]

How hot should a stock motor get? I'm a rookie and have no frame of reference.

I'm running a Reedy MVP with the stock 92-tooth spur and the recommended 25-tooth pinion. I also run a Novak GT-7 ESC with Sanyo 3300 batteries, if that makes a difference.

The car runs well. But after about 6 minutes of run time, the motor is too hot to touch. Is this normal or do I need to regear?

Thanks.


Jack

[Dingus]

The MVP is a hot running motor anyway. Be sure that the endbell has not discolored. After it cools, also check to see if the brushes are discolored (burned after less than 4-5 runs). If either is present, you may be overgeared. The MVP is a high rpm motor best suited to longer tracks, but will work well if tuned (brushes/springs) even on shorter tracks.

Generally, for this motor, gear a little lower than a typical stocker. If overgeared, it won't ever get to the max rpm because it lacks the torque.

On a side note, is anyone really racing stock with this car? I figured 19t would be about the slowest anyone could handle. Maybe try to start a 19t class. WAY more fun and pretty much the same maintenance as a stock motor.

[jforkner]

Thanks Dingus.

The endbell does not seem to be discolored and I've only run the motor twice. But I will check the brushes for discoloration. The car is run on my backyard track (50' x 100' and only one small jump at this time).

FYI---I'm just running the stock motor while I learn to drive. After I develop some experience, I plan to get a modified. Right now, though, the stocker is plenty fast for me.

Thanks again for the input.


Jack

[banditwing]

Thank you for your replies!

I have a friend who owns a FT b3, and I have driven it quite a bit. I like it, but I think I would rather go for a new vehicle that I get to build myself. (He says he might sell it, i'm not sure for how much)

I really want something that will give me great performance yet still be solid as a rock. I haven't owned an AE, so I guess I cant really judge them. There are a few things that keep me from going ahead and deciding on the B4 right away too, just like the XXX-4. I guess no car is perfect. I am very happy with my standard xnt, and it has given me no problems except the differential and transmission (all my fault I mis adjusted it. I fixed it and now it works well).

I own a standard kit xxx-nt and I think Losi is awsome. I haven't had the chance to run either the B4 or the XXX-4, but both look like awsome vehicles. I think that I would be happy with either car.

Thanks a lot for all the information. It helps a lot in decision making.

-Banditwing

[the turd]

I haven't had the chance to run either the B4...

I dont think many people have, LOL! maybe those lucky guys who work for ae though...

[AllenJO]

Banditwing,

One thing you don't mention is what you plan to do with your car (B4 or XXX-4). If you're really into racing, you may be better off with the B4, at least in the near term. Given the wide popularity of the B3 and XXX, just about every track has a 2WD buggy class, and larger clubs probably have more than 1 (stock, 19T, modified, etc.). 4WD buggies are rarer, unless you happen to live in a big city, although the XXX-4 may change that (here's hoping that the XXX-4 does to 4WD buggies like the T-Maxx did to monster trucks). For example, I think that I'm the only person in Tallahassee, FL that has a XXX-4; there are a few XX-4s, but I bet that I can sum both on 1 hand. But then again, alot of racers are looking at my XXX-4 go, and going "Wow!"

[wcoyote_racer]

Has anyone used the rear arm spacers to adjust the rear arms yet for traction/steering? Or is everyone still pretty much keeping the arms centered with no offset? I've checked the setup pages and it seems the Losi guys aren't doing much with that adjustment either.
I'm curious to find out if anyone has used it for adjusting handling if they could really tell the difference it makes or if it seems to be so minimal that it was hard to tell a difference.

[losixxx213]

I want to get a xxx4 and I need ho makes titanium turnbucles for it?(I bnd the steel ones too easily) And 13x2 work well in this car? And would my esc that handles 12 turn mods have a lot of strain with a 13x2 or would it be ok?

[andy497]

You know, the turnbuckles are usually the first thing I replace on a car, but xxx-4 was different. I kept telling myself I'd get a full set of lunsfords as soon as I broke one, but that day never came. I've been driving hard for many a week now, and I've never even bent one of the stock turnbuckles. I don't know if it's the geometry or what, but they sure seem to hold up. Now I have been through a few ball studs on the other hand. It certainly wouldn't hurt to upgrade to Ti there.

[losixxx213]

how would a 1 turn limit esc hold up with a 13 turn mod in the xxx4? Would the esc end up frying?

[Dingus]

Most esc manufacturers use the motor turn limit as a general guide. It's also usually a conservative figure.

That's no guarantee though. As long as you are above the lowest turn limit, you should be fine, but check it after every heat to see if it is excessively hot. For bashing, be very careful as the loads are usually higher and the run times longer.

Also depends on the speedo manufacturer. I like Novak because I know I can send it back for fixing or replacement (even if only at a slight cost) very quickly.

Anyone remember the 96 mph tc3? They used like 20 cells with a 2 turn motor and didn't fry the LRP they used. Amazing!

[banditwing]

Hehe that would be awsome if I had a chance to drive the b4 now.

Well, I do go to the track about 3 times a year. I have a track in my backyard that I made where I run my cars. So In the official sense of racing, no I dont race much at all, but I race my cars on my own track against myself and my buddies. So I do want a good handling car, but the sense of solidness (is it a word :p) and durabilty is more important than the handling.

BTW, I might be able to get a b3, but parts availability might be out of the question if the b4 is coming.

-Thanks a lot for your help, even if the b3/b4 stuff isnt in the right forum.

-Thanks:)

[NitroOwnsYou]

Parts availability from associated are one of the best Ive seen. Even vintage parts are easily found. B3 will not be shut off on parts for a long time to come. Ive got a nice near mint RC10 gold tub on the way to my house!

JR

[LouisB]

OK, I thought I might as well ask this here b/c some of you guys run nitro trucks and XXX-4s. I'm trying to decide whether I should buy a XXX-NT for the truck season in the summer or switch from my B3 to a XXX-4 for the next electric off-road championship. The fast guys race 2wd in the winter and 4wd in the summer and I'm fairly quick with my B3 so I might be able to hang with them. I also have a XXX-S so there's some parts compatability with the XXX-4.
What do u think? I'm leaning towards the XXX-4 because Nitro is more expensive and i just got a Hyper 7 (1/10th would be slow) I also have a T-Maxx which I can race and have a bit of fun with:)
At least 3 guys are replacing their XX-4s with XXX-4s at my club so there should be some set-up help and spares:)
Thanks

[decypher]

Anybody know of any online stores that have the XXX-4 for 239-249?


My searches have come up short. :(

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[kvn xxx-nt]

I got mine for 255 at www.tammieshobbies.com. This is a local store for me. Their site doesn't have them listed so you might have to give them a call or e-mail. Also last friday they had 2 at my LHS www.amainraceway.com (http://www.amainraceway.com) not sure if they will do mail order. They are running 250 their.

[RadicalRustler]

So no-one put stadium tires on the buggy?

[DIrTjUNkie]

are the XXX4 springs, the same as the truck springs? :confused:

Im pretty sure, but they are just checkin..

[losixxx213]

I think the front ones are buggy springs and the rear are truck springs

[UberGamer256]

Do the Dynamite Alu XXXS front Hinge Pin supports fit the XXX4?

Ive broken 3 of the plastic ones already.. they even LOOK weak.. lol.

Broken so far.. 1 a-arm.. rear shock tower.. and 3 front pivot supports. :rolleyes:

[Backfire]

I believe the front and rear supports are different, they have different part numbers, so blocks designed for the XXX-S are not going to work on the XXX-4. The diff covers have a different part number as well so they look to be different too.

[AllenJO]

One of those "has this happened to you" inquiries:

Running my Losi XXX-4 today and noticed it was a little sluggish and that rear traction was poor. Slipper didn't appear to be slipping overmuch and the belt seemed tight, so having had a NMT for some time, I decided to check the diffs. Picked the rear up and gave it power and the front wheels spun just fine. Did the opposite and the rear wheels just sat there. Assumed that my diff had loosened so I packed it up for the day. Got home, dissembled the beast and found that my diff was a little loose and tightened it up. Put the beast back together and tested it -- no change. Figured that I probably needed to tighten the rear diff some more. Took off the rear wheel and rear turnbuckle to get at the diff adjustment screw and noticed that I had no wheel pin protruding from CVD. Figured that I had lost it somehow, but on looking at the rear wheel, I saw that both protruding parts of the pin were still in the wheel's pin slots. Closer inspection of the CVD found that a third part of the pin was still in the axle. The pin had sheared, not once but twice. Inspection found that the same was true for the other rear wheel, too.

I have a T3, B3 and NMT and have lost pins, have seen pins chew up wheels, but have never seen a pin break into 3 parts.

In short, replaced the pins and everything is fine once again.

Just curious, has anyone else had a similar problem?

[UberGamer256]

Had that happen to my XXX.. suprised the hell outa me when i took my wheel off.. couldnt figure out why i lost so much power. hehe :D

[Buckyaga]

I sheared a CVD pin last week.. everything fell apart and found the dogbone on the track. Put it all back together ( Figured the pin just fell out even though the set screw was still tight against the pin) and found out that one side sheared off.


never seen that before..

[igozoom]

I just purchased the front and rear aluminum CVD kits and am going to composite rear outdrives. Hoping this will help me to spool up more quickly so I can run one tooth taller pinion on the 11 double Francis. Any thoughts, good or bad ?

PS. Broke my xxx-4 down this week and had read axle pin which locks into rim slot fall apart when I removed wheel. Looks like an epidemic ! hehehe

[cabbynate]

Igozoom,

I ran the aluminum CVD's on my xx-4 and they are light!!!!!
(like a feather)
They do wear out quickly. I ordered a pair for the front as I run the aluminum Losi dog bones in the rear. I will only put the front aluminum CVD's in for big races. I also run the composite out drives in the rear with sleeves and the diff seems to last longer and not get crunchy as fast. I really can't tell if I get faster spool up. You may feel it. I'm always so shocked at how fast this thing gets going no matter how I have it set up!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :D

[wcoyote_racer]

So cabby, are you saying that it's better to practice with the steel bones and use the aluminum for race only? Knowing how soft aluminum can be, it's too bad they can't make Titanium ones. Frankly I'll pay $50+ for a longer lasting titanium set rather than keep paying $25+ for sets again and again.
Hmmm..Maybe one of my friends and I can design some modified aluminum/steel ones that could last longer. They wouldn't be as light. Or maybe we should all hit Losi and/or MIP up for a longer lasting design? Just a thought.

[cabbynate]

wcoyote,
The CVD's for the front of the XXX-4 are FAT!!!! I just got mine in the mail yesterday and they mesure out like this:
XXX-4: 0.171 in. shaft thickness and 0.074 in. thickness where the axle pin slides in.
XX-4: 0.129 in. shaft thickness and 0.061 in. thickness where the axle pin slides in.
The XXX-4 CVD's should hold up much better than the old XX-4 Aluminum CVD's by far.
Igozoom will most likely run his all the time so he will most likely update us on how they last.
As for me, Yes, I will only run them for big races untill I find out how long they will last with weekly use.

[wcoyote_racer]

Those are some thick measurements. We shall see how they hold up in the wear and tear department. lighter=faster. You have to admit titanium CVDs would be killer though, and pricey. Knowing me, I'll get the aluminum ones anyway for race nights.
So far This car has been a blast! I took it out to the local track and ran a few practice runs again. Using 40wt oil in the rear and 35 in front just so I can throw the rear end around a little more on the turns and still have good steering. Normally the fastest guys were turning 12-13 laps at the very most. I was turning times right on the 12 lap mark around 5:02- 5:10, but that was with 14 turn motors. I think I'm going to have to see what type of speed setup they are doing now. For all I know, that could be slow now. The tapers Give good traction on the front with the loose stuff. Thanks for that info guys. I'm using medium springs instead of the soft or hard black ones. I'll get the color for you guys later. This track can be a bit bumpy.
All you blue groove guys can probably dismiss my setup if you want because you are running most likely a hard packed track, or you can keep it in the back of your head for later use.

[wcoyote_racer]

On the springs: 2.5" green on front and been trying yellow 2.75" and pink 2.5" on the rear. Yellow seem to work a little softer but with the longer size it is close to the pinks. If things get more bumpy I'll try the pinks more often. I think it would take out some of the sponginess that the yellows seem to have. There you go have fun!

[igozoom]

Hey Wiley !

Our track consistency sounds similar to yours. We have clay with soft stufff, mostly sand across the top. I mean slippery. I settled on Oranges in the front and Yellows in the rear. 30 wt in front and 27.5 in rear. Stock pistons. You can take the rear to 30 if you want the a$$ end to come around a little. The set up is soft but the buggy doesn't freak out when going through nasty 1/8 scale pot holes and ruts. Jumps nice and even, and yanks hard when you pull thr trigger.

I am going to run the alum cvds front and rear as well as moving to composite outdrives in the rear with the trinity outdrive savers. Hoping I don't deveop traction problems.

I can't race this weekend, but will next weekend. I haven't changed anything else on my xxx-4 so I should be able to draw some kind of comparison.

Well, back to wrenching. Just took my 4 apart. Still have yet to wrench on my new Ofna 9.5. I had to purchase one after selling my Drake. Couldn't stand not having a Nitro vehicle.

[NitroOwnsYou]

Well, back to wrenching. Just took my 4 apart. Still have yet to wrench on my new Ofna 9.5. I had to purchase one after selling my Drake. Couldn't stand not having a Nitro vehicle.

Thats why you buy a sload of them! Bah I got alot =/

Oh I found a buggy wanting to run over some xxx-4's! :D

http://www.downonthedeck.com/images/Ebay/mudslinger421.jpg

[NitroOwnsYou]

Belts are for pants, chains are where its at!

[Backfire]

Is that the new Associated 4wd??;) :D

[wcoyote_racer]

Hey there Igo!

Thanks for the heads up. It's always fun to try and find the "hot setup" With all of the 10 turn motors I read about at the races I figure I'm going to have to buy one too. Currently running a 12x4 which when I was racing a long time ago was blistering. No one could keep up and most of them were running 14 turns. It's been 9 years since I raced last so this year could be interesting.
I have a few questions for you though. What kind of tie rod spacer setup are you using if any? Are you playing around much with the overdrive setup vs regular? I was noticing on the Losi web site they aren't playing much with the rear hub offset. They seem mostly keeping with the spacers on either side of the arms instead of offsetting them. Does that seem to be the case at your track too? And one final one. Pivot supports 7.5 in front and 3 degree rear seems to be the way I found so far. How about you?
You know I Think Drake's setup is what we are getting close to. Drake Clones here we come! Now if we can handle the speed...
Those sheets are a Big Help! Thank you Losi! :cool:

[igozoom]

WiIley, don't fall for the notion that lower turn motors are always better. By all means , try different motors until you find the perfect one for your driving. While many of the local guys run a 10 double, the guy spanking us every weekend, and the proud owner of the track record, is running a 12 triple.

I have tried three different motors before settling on my motor. I tried a 12 double mf which was OK but was too smooth. Not enough scare factor. Then went to an 11 double mf. This motor still scares me when I grab a handful ! It extremely fast, but puts the power to the ground when you pull the trigger. I then went with a 12 single which was fast but was always breaking the wheels loose. Now I am back to my 11 double.

Try running 3 or 4 different motors. It's expensive, but, you will find the perfect motor for your set up and drving style.

I am running the 7.5 and 3 pivot blocks. I have not tried the o.d. ing or u.d. ing the vehicle. A couple of people tried both, as well as the one-way, with little success.

As for moving the hub spacers, I have left them alone. I have got my vehicle very dialed in for my driving style which is yank trigger.......uh oh,....crash and role.......sorry Mr. Turn Mashal ! : D

I am now just looking for a little more edge and snap without degrading the vehicles current feel. I am hoping that the composite OD's and the new Losi aluminum CVA'a will be the ticket.

Keep trying new things on your 4, but only change one thing at time. Let us know what you learn.

[DIrTjUNkie]

Yesterday, was the first time Ive entered any rc races in 2 yrs, Heres what happened:

1st xxx4 mod qualifying heat - running 4th and having probs with 85 freq. DNF. There was a guy using 84 and he was having probs as well.

2nd Qualifyer- squezzed thru the 2nd turn havoc and ran up front (got lucky) holding 1st for 3/4 lap. 2nd / 3rd knocking at my door tho! :eek: and then it was overwith.......cleared triple and the car didnt seem right :confused: something broke? pulled off track, front shock tower mount of chassis snapped! :rolleyes: I ve read 1 or 2 of you guys have had the same prob.....

Lucky one of the guys racing with, had a spare plastic chassis he sold for 20 bucks. Still didnt make if for the main tho!

oh well had alotta fun while it lasted, felt good to on the driver stand racing again :D

I ordered the PRP chassis backbones yesterday hopefully I see them soon

peace!

[wcoyote_racer]

I will igo. This weekend the local track is a bit of a mud puddle. So I may not be able to test at it for a bit. I'll try the orange springs next and so on. It is looking like everything is like Drake's rough track setup so far. If I get the spring I want, I'll try your oil setup and go from there.
As far as the motor goes, I was merely implying that since my motor is old and probably needing some serious reconditioning (Reedy Mr Series) I'm probably going to have to buy a new motor. I'll get the com re-cut and new brushes and springs for it and try it for the first practice run. If it doesn't keep up I'll have to do what you reccommended and get a few motors to test. I planned on getting one more anyway as a backup or replacement for my Mr Series motor. I'll keep you posted. Happy racing!

[wcoyote_racer]

Hey igo. You are crashing and looking for more snap? :confused: I would think more snap is something you need to avoid while crashing. :D Just kidding. I know, more punch is great to have. I think that is why I like my 12 quad. When racing before, the other guys and gals could catch me in some of the corners but pretty much ate my dust on the long back straight. Up to 4-5 car lengths ahead. So if you can get a hand on a 12 quad, like borrowing a friends for practice or something, try it. It gives you quite some punch when geared right. You might even raise an eyebrow or two and get that guy who runs the 12 triple.

[cabbynate]

DIrTjUNkie,
Did you race at So Cal Sunday???
If so I was Pitting next to you. I had the XXX-4 with the "Backbones" I showed you.

[DIrTjUNkie]

Yeah! its me! ordered the backbones online last nite, no confirmation yet from prp.......thanks for the help. Are you gonna be racing back at socal any time soon? You said you were from vegas right?


ray

[cabbynate]

DIrTjUNkie,

Yea, I'm from Vegas. I want to get out there at least once a month so we will see... I really like the track there so I'm going to try to get out there as much as I can.

You should have your Backbones in two weeks or so.
Hope to see ya soon,

Nate

[kvn xxx-nt]

I have been seeing that everyone is using aluminum CVD and composite out drives in the rear. I've got a couple questions. For the aluminum CVD to a need the whole kit or just the axles? Also is the rear composite outdrives everbody using the same ones as the stock front ones?? Thanks

[cabbynate]

kvn xxx-nt,

You only need to get the CVD bones. I think the Losi XXX-4 aluminum CVD bones are fatter than the one's from MIP.
I'm not sure.

The composite outdrives are the same. Make sure to use the Trinity outdrive saver rings.

[kvn xxx-nt]

Aren't the Losi CVD's made by MIP?? Also, what is the best way to choose the pinion size. I'm using a 18 tooth with my birdman 11 double. Seems to have a lot of low end power, but kinda of slow on the straights. Should I go up a couple teeth or down?

[losixxx213]

does losi have any yellow plastic parts for this kit besides thw wheels?

[kvn xxx-nt]

Yellow ball cups are the only things I can think of.

[cabbynate]

kvn xxx-nt ,

Yup, the Losi CVD's are made by MIP. I think MIP has just not packaged the new sized CVD's yet. I have not seen a part number for the XXX-4 CVD's from MIP yet, only Losi.

[ncrego]

Couple of questions for those of you who have had more experience with the XXX-4.

How do you seal the drivetrain? After a couple of packs at the races, I had to rebuild the rear diff from the dirt getting in it. I've torn it down, and put a bead of greas around the bottom cover, and everywhere else I could find a hole, and put come double stick tape around the edge of the spur cover. Is this what the rest of you are doing? Anything else I should try?

Also, how about holding the battery in place? I have a couple of stick packs that I'd like to use for practice, but after a crash, or even some hard cornering they slide out the side. Also, with my race packs, they even slide out a little. How is everyone else remedying this?

[DIrTjUNkie]

Yeah I hear ya, I have the same prob on diff becoming contaminated, but not as bad. I ve read people doing the same thing you've done (with grease)

As far as using stick packs I have a couple as well, try placing some d/s stick tape on the battery holder itself, to place more pressure down on the battery. This help me a little, unless Im totally out of control. :( Other than that best bet is to brake down the stick packs. :)

[cabbynate]

ncrego,

If you are using the steel outdrives in the rear than it will get crunchy no matter what. The slipper seems to tighten up as you drive the car. I run the composite outdrives in the rear and the diff stay's smooth a lot longer. I don't know why? :confused:

[LouisB]

Take a piece of dense foam (like AE battery spacers) and glue it to the side of the chassis by the pack. I did this on my XXX-S and it stopped stick packs from flying out.

[DIrTjUNkie]

Good Idea! ^^^^^

:D

[LouisB]

Yeah, I can't take credit for it though, TSR6 thought of it first!
The new XXX-S chassis has some notches that do the same job.

[wcoyote_racer]

I know this is a little off topic guys, but what connectors do you use for your motors/batteries. Or are you typically soldering the batteries? Just for ease of use and no confusion since I can't resolder my connections each time, I'm using Deans for my motors and Powerpole connectors for my batteries. I use the Powerpole connectors so if I need to separate the ground and power connection on the batteries due to routing, I can. And I've heard they have about the best conductivity out there.
Igo, I should be able to try your setup this weekend. I'll let you in how it worked for me.

[igozoom]

I am using Deans for batteries and hard wiring the motor. I do have a soldering station when I race, but prefer the Deans.

Wiley, pull the trigger, but don't be pinning it over any of the big jumps as the set up is a little soft. Car should be very neutral and on rails. The on-power steering, especially in the tight stuff, is oh so tasty. Stay on the throttle. Please let us know if it helps or hurts your driving style.

I am running the new Losi aluminum CVD's in the front and the rear this weekend, in conjunction with the composite outdrives in the rear. My bud Tarvy is going to cut the 11 double to revitalize the beast. I haven't made any other changes. If I am spooling up just a little quicker, I will go one taller on the pinion. Woohoo ! Haven't raced in two weeks. I have a score to settle with Tarvy for stealing my third place with three turns left. :D

XXX-4 Smackdown !!!!! It Is On !!!!!!

[tarvymoto]

Don't make me take out a second mortgage to get some aluminum CVD's for this weekend:D ...it ain't gonna happen.

I'm saving every last penny for an 1/8th chassis.

IT's ON!!!:p

[andy497]

About batteries flying out, the holder seems to hang on to side by side packs pretty well, but stick packs will go flying.

I like to use some stick packs for practicing, so my solution was to buy some velcro tape. One side stuck/glued to the battery holder and one to each pack. Now they don't move and inch but are still easy to swap out.

About all the Al cvds, that sounds great, but the weight savings compared to the rest of the car amount to something like 1 / 1000th less force needed to accelerate the same amount. Maybe I'm way off, but I'd bet in a double blind test with two cars you'd have a hard time even telling which was running which. I guess if I had the money it might be fun to try though.

[kvn xxx-nt]

It has to do with the rotating mass of the CVD's. There is a bigger difference here then the over all weight savings then the couple grams per CVD.

[wcoyote_racer]

A little bit of a friendly rivalry there Igo and Tarvy? Good. Just keep it clean. LOL Well as far as the jumps. I think the tallest is about 3' to 3 1/2' tall. So I'll probably see how this thing lands. A lot of the guys around here, including me, will be reconditioning the track two weekends from now. Bring out those rakes! It should be smoother then. Might even route it different. But the dirt is always the same, so there should be no change in racing conditions. Still a bit slick on top, and this dirt loves to get bumpy after a few races.
Have fun as always! That roostertail of dirt you see might just be Tarv ans igo duking it out on the track, tire to tire. Btw I bought that 11 double MF just to see how it compares to the 12 quad I have. Should be blazing!

[tarvymoto]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
[B]A little bit of a friendly rivalry there Igo and Tarvy? Good. Just keep it clean.

Is block passing your pit partner into a pipe considered clean??? JK:D
If I did that I'd be pitting on the ground;)


Wcoyote , you should love that motor. Just give it a cut and new brushes after ever dozen runs ... for max performance.

[igozoom]

Andy, as Kevin mentioned, I think the theory is that eliminating rotating mass has a far greater impact than if you were to remove the same amount of static or dead weight. THink I read this in a mountain bike magazine years ago, discussing that lighter rims were the best enhancement one could make.

On the other hand, you may be right. I may not be able to notice any discernable performance improvement.

Wiley, Tarvy is my pit partner. I always talk trash as I have spent the last six months trying to place ahead of him in a race. I did manage to beat him once in an A Main for Gas truck. Other than that, he spanks me regularly. He just goes too fast ! :D

While he will put a clean block pass on me, he never makes contact. Besides, if he ever crashes me out, I will just call his wife and then he's really in trouble. :eek:

We both just purchased 1/8th scales and intend to terrorize that class as well. There is just too much smack being talked in 1/8th !

Race hard and have fun !!!!!!!!!!

[wcoyote_racer]

LOL Way to go guys! I remember having those rivalries.
Another storm heading this way for Friday night/Saturday morning. :mad: With any luck, the storm will be nothing and I will still be able to run on the track. If not, the MF 11 double test will have to wait for a while. :( I've only run my xxx-4 about seven times. On previous cars I haven't been able to notice the setup changes that much but this car seems to react with authority to changes. Kind of makes me feel like I'm running it on a rope line that with the wrong move, will break loose or fly off of that rope. And it has wrecked a couple of times, with masterful grace and many an "Oh no, Yikes, and WOW!" :D Is that truly the way it should be run (on edge)? I like a more forgiving setup to start with and hope that the suspension changes help that. But I am loving this again no doubt! Welcome the new 4WD Class of '03.

[mcquto]

I had the same peoblem with my stick packs flying out when cornering. I drive with a 9T double D5 flatliner and I get so much traction in the corners that the car will roll before it slides sometimes. In an emergency I used the barrel of a Bic pen and some zip ties. It adds almost no weight but I haven't lost a battery yet and I have had some wild crashes. It works so I left it that way.

[mcquto]

I had the same peoblem with my stick packs flying out when cornering. I drive with a 9T double D5 flatliner and I get so much traction in the corners that the car will roll before it slides sometimes. In an emergency I used the barrel of a Bic pen and some zip ties. It adds almost no weight but I haven't lost a battery yet and I have had some wild crashes. It works so I left it that way.

[andy497]

mcquto, what spur is that?

[igozoom]

The white is a 94.

Orange = 90
Blue=92 (Stock)
White=94

Sorry, didn't mean to butt in. Just trying to hook a fellow xxx-4 er up !

[cabbynate]

Racer's Edge CVD rings. # RE3125.

These rings are designed to prevent the pin in the CVD from falling out.

With these rings the set screw is no longer needed.

www.racers-edge.com

[Buckyaga]

Originally posted by mcquto
I had the same peoblem with my stick packs flying out when cornering. I drive with a 9T double D5 flatliner and I get so much traction in the corners that the car will roll before it slides sometimes. In an emergency I used the barrel of a Bic pen and some zip ties. It adds almost no weight but I haven't lost a battery yet and I have had some wild crashes. It works so I left it that way.

hahah.. I can recommend that setup that tom is using. I have first hand experience at some of his crashes (WOW) and I have never seen his packs fall out :)

[AllenJO]

Cabbynate,
Racer's Edge's catalog and a search of the products on their website finds no such item by that number or description. ?

Andy497, re velcro:
I like your solution, but.... Do you use 3300s? I ask because one already has to exert pressure to clip-down the battery bar with 3300 stick packs (but they still pop out on a hard landing), and I'd doubt you'd be able to do so at all with 2 strips of velcro. Otherwise, the Bic pen trick may be my best bet.

[cabbynate]

AllenJO,

Yea, I did not see them there yet either. I got them at my LHS here in Las Vegas. Ask your LHS to order them for you. They cost about $6.00.

[mcquto]

So theres a fan of my many cartwheels and such. I run the white spur with a 18 tooth pinion if anyone cares. And the car is FAST but I have a hard time controlling it.

[mcquto]

I am currently having a set of aluminum front arms made for my XXX4 and was wondering if there is much of a demand out there for them and if so, what do you think they would be worth. I may make a deal with the machinist to make a bunch of them if they test well and there is a demand for them. Hopefully I will have them to test this wed. nights race.

[Backfire]

A XXX-4 owner at my track had arms machined from Delrin. I don't know about cost, but you may want to look into that or white nylon like the XX-4 front bulkhead was. Either should hold up much better than the stock arms and be cheap to machine. He only ran the arm for a bit before he sold his car, but seemed to work well.

[AllenJO]

Found what may be the best thing from which to make a stick pack retainer -- the front flap off of a videocassette tape box. Cut the hinge flaps off, cut to size, drill 3 to 7 holes in it, and zip-tie it down. Also, since it's black, it doesn't look overly jerry-rigged.

[Heavy Throttle]

Well I got an xxx4 a week ago and took it on it's first 4wd adventure on the locl rc track. WOW total traction and handling was so impressive compared to my 2wd tracks. The only down side is, don't land the the thing on it's roof. First ever run made a few laps then had a mishap on a jump and wham, they rear shock tower disengrated. Boy was I poed. Does anyone make an Alium Rear Tower yet?

[wcoyote_racer]

As far as the shock tower thing. One of the local guys I ran into yesterday made some graphite tower reinforcements. He had a piece cut in the exact shape of the top of the tower, drilled out the holes for the shock mounts, and bolted it on to the original shocktower using the same shock mounting holes as the original. He also cut a piece to reinforce the bottom (where the 4 main screws are to bolt on the tower). So far so good. He hasn't broke a tower since. I know he did this for the front tower. And I think he also did it for the rear tower.
I got to run on Saturday. Me and this other guy went around the track doing some mock racing. I tried out the MF 11 double. Wowsers! Changed to the orange springs up front with much better results. He was running orange as well. I tried the yellow setup on the rear and helped the control. I've decided to run the battery forward, since I'm running pins on front and x2000s rear, I'm trying to get the most out of my steering. From what I could tell, the MF was more powerful than my 12 quad. He noticed it too. I think he was running a Reedy Ti. Not sure what wind.
Taking the jumps took a little bit to get used to with the new motor. Faster motors seem to do that to me. About the third time we tried racing together I was able to get this car under control a lot better. Even passed him a few times. Put a beautiful inside move on the tight turn and ran away from him. He's running the stock tires currently. And talking about some pink compounds. Well at least I know of one guy that will be some serious competition later on. He is in some agreement with igo and me on the taper pins. He said once they recondition the track, all the guys will probably be running them. But for now, the car is still in one piece, and handling awesome. Simply put run fast, and carry a big xxx-4. :D

[Dingus]

http://home.attbi.com/~teamprp/xxx4.html

[cabbynate]

Has anyone tried the Trinity 1dg aluminum rear hubs yet?
I have some comming and was wondering how many washers under the ball studs you are using? I think I will start out with three.

[DIrTjUNkie]

heard from local track, that people are having problems with the oneway bearing specifically the on road guys??? anyone heard of this?:confused:

[igozoom]

Wiley, glad the set up is working for you. Give it a chance for a week or two. I think you will find the car to be very drivable yet still make you wet your pants when you grab a handful of throttle.
Sir, I believe you will be giving em fits at the track shortly. Hey....ever notice that many of the fast guys never stop off to chat with you in your pit area until you start hauling a$$, then all of the sudden everyone is coming over to check out your ride ? hehehe

You can also try running 30 wt in the back if you want the rear end to come around a little in the tight stuff. I prefer the 27.5.

The battery forward position works well for me as well. Gives me the additional steering I wanted.

I have installed my aluminum CVD's and composite drives. Regrettibly, I was sicker than a dog yesterday, still am....cough, hack.....wheeze.......and didn't feel up to racing yesterday. I ended up rebuilding diffs on my 1/8th scale.

Heavy Throttle, you can try and purchase a tower or have something fabricated out of aluminum. A shock tower made of aluminum like 6061 or 7075 will likely put enough duress on the the chassis mount to snap it cleanly in a wreck, or, if you prefer, a roll bar safety test. I use the Back Bones made out of carbon fiber to butt up against the shock tower. These aren't indestructable. I snapped a tower and a brace after getting a little too sassy over a double/triple. In addition, I cracked a tower during a vicious crash during a main...the back bones kept everything together long enough to let me finish 5th. (5th was attributed to my piss poor driving, not shock tower failure !:D)

I like them enough that I keep a spare set with me at all times. Finally, they come with chassis braces as well.

Hope my endless diatribe helps.

GET EM WILEY !!!!!!!!! YOU WILL BE EATING ROADRUNNER IN NO TIME !

[Heavy Throttle]

Nice backbones, I'm gona order a set for sure. I e-mailed RPM and this is there reply.

---
Dear Eric,
Unfortunately, the XXX-4 is very low on our priority list. I doubt if we
will produce anything for it but there is always some slight possibility.
I'm afraid your best bet would be to please check back with our new products
pages of our website just in case we do get to make something for it. I'm
sorry I couldn't be of more assistance.
Thank you for your interest in RPM products. If you have any other
questions or comments, please feel free to send us another e-mail.
---

So someone needs to make some cool parts!!! I'll get the backbones as I'm gona need some after this wreck. I tried to tripple a jump and came off the first one badly and ended up flipping over and landind before the thrid jump and it was over. :(

I bet the Associated wouldn't of broken. ;) :) :D

[igozoom]

I think that "very low on our priority list " is equal to GTH !:D

[cabbynate]

DIrTjUNkie,

I have been running the same one-way for 2 months with no problems.

[wcoyote_racer]

Dingus

I think that those parts you posted the link to are the same ones that guy I practiced with has. I may have misunderstood that he made them. Thanks for the info. I may have to get them myself.

Igo,

About the people wanting to see your ride when you are fast: Yeah I've noticed that too. I've been hungry for that beep beep Roadrunner. :D In maybe week we will know how this setup works for the revamped track. Outdoor tracks are always fun to recondition after the snow melts. Lets hope someone will make some parts in different colors just to stylize our buggies. Black is nice but I like a little neon or Blue too. One more thing. I'll have more competition after we get this track done. I heard everyone is bringing their R/C vehicles with them to run after the work is done. It all depends on how long it takes. Buggies vs trucks anyone? It could happen. Could be an Off Road free for all.

[tarvymoto]

Originally posted by cabbynate
Has anyone tried the Trinity 1dg aluminum rear hubs yet?
I have some comming and was wondering how many washers under the ball studs you are using? I think I will start out with three.

Cabby , I have some installed. Two washers is equal to the stock rollcenter.;)

[cabbynate]

tarvy,
Thanks, I think I just a little more side bite so I think I will start with three washers. I'll let ya know how they work.

[XYZ]

Would anyone like to post pics of there Losi XXX-4? that would be great because i am thinking of geting one real soon.

[tarvymoto]

Originally posted by cabbynate
tarvy,
Thanks, I think I just a little more side bite so I think I will start with three washers. I'll let ya know how they work.

Cabby , lmk how that handles with the oneway:cool:

[cabbynate]

tarvy,

Will do.;)

[DIrTjUNkie]

sweet!, just checking :)

[Heavy Throttle]

What other hopups are available for this thing?

I was also looking at the XXX-S Graphite Diff covers and they look like a direct fit. Got some comming in to try, lol. :D

[andy497]

I feel like my steering travel is decent enough, but it certainly isn't like other 2wd buggies I've had. (i.e. the wheels just don't turn as far)

Anyway, there are a couple of seasoned pros at my track (you know the type, crystal-less m8 sitting next to their two turbo 35s each at the pit), any they have just insane steering. I know finessing on and off power steering helps, but when I look at their cars, the wheels really seem to turn a lot further.

I used to have a hitec metal servo which had a little better travel, but it died and I'm back to a cheapy futuba which seems to be worse. I've got the EPA on my radio turned all the way up, but I can still turn the wheels quite a bit further with my hands than the servo will go.

Sooooo, what servos are you folks using? I've seen plenty of digital programmable servos, do you need a special device to program the endpoints on those? I'm starting to get desperate and feeling ready to shell out the money.

[cabbynate]

DIrTjUNkie,
I almost went up there this past week, I just could not find anyone to go with me.:mad: I also balance my tires and I think it helps the bearings last longer with way less vibration. Another thing about those onroad guy there at socal, they hit that wall HARD!!!!!:eek:

andy497,

I have alot of steering. I also use a one-way. However, there is no substitute for a good servo. I use an Airtronics 94757 in my XXX-4. It is also amazing what a high end radio will do for ya.
Put it this way, when I travel to a race, My M8 is always inside with me. (in a case of corse):)

[LouisB]

Have you guys seen the new Losi pivot blocks (http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117138)?

I'm going to be patient and wait for the sig. edition XXX-4 to come out (or at least try to wait that long!) but I will get one eventually:)

[Dingus]

Those look pretty sweet!

Not sure about the sig edition yet. I've only heard bad things about the graphite parts (breakage). Also, I've heard from drivers that the graphite may be a tad too stiff for offroad. Makes the car twitchy.

Any other comments about that?

[igozoom]

Heavy.....The xxx s graphite diff covers do not fit. I learned the hard way. The front diff cover was too long or too short.

Stick with the package marked xxx-4.

[Moo-Shoe]

I can't wait to get my hands on those al pivot blocks. I wonder what will break now instead of the pivots though? :)

[DIrTjUNkie]

it'll transfer back to the arms again! :rolleyes:

[andy497]

The al pivots are sweet, but that means I'll probably be breaking more spindle carriers.

Does anyone else think it's really dumb that the pins go only about 1/4th inch into the spindle on each side (instead of all the way through). Every time I nick a pipe, the two pins going into the spindle from the a-arm crack through the edges. I counted 6 broken spindle carriers in my toolbox last night, so I don't think it's a fluke. Maybe I should try to find a long pin the right diameter and do the traditional pin e-clip setup. It doesn't look like a pin going all the way through would rub the axle, that was my primary concern.

[PAPA MOOSE]

Andy: Make sure your steering arms are mounted correctly easy mistake I did it, long arm forward I think! I would have to check the manual! Hope this helps!

We have had the same problem with th one-way! I only no one guy's that has stay together thats cause he took it out and it is in his pit box.:D

[cartmen34]

You know something, it seems to me, and maybe I'm just missing something here, but it seems to me that maybe losi should work on ACTUALLY SHIPPING PARTS TO SHOPS instead of making aluminum parts! Like...oh I don't know.....maybe some front a-arms for this car....and some shock towers.... and some one-ways would be nice as well...

Perhaps it's because I live in BFE that I'm not seeing these much needed parts in my store, but my LHS keeps telling me that the parts are all backordered with no ETA.

Yeah I suppose I'm a little bitter... but seriously frustrated with losi. I've been a losi faithful for years now, and I've never had to wait for replacement parts this long. :eek: :( :confused:

[cabbynate]

Here in Las Vegas, Danseys (our local track/ Hobby shop) has 10 0f every part.
Sorry about your luck.:(

[ncrego]

Or you could do what I do, and keep 5 bags of everything breakable in your box :)

[cartmen34]

ncrego, that is what I usually try and do, however, I can't seem to get ahold of that parts I need. I'm a big supporter of my LHS, so I don't like to order stuff online unless there is no way my shop can get the parts. After all, they do supply a place to race, the least I can do is give them my business. I suppose I'll have to start calling up places and having stuff shipped to me directly.

And cabbynate's comment makes me think.... if his LHS has 10 of every part.... then *** is going on at my hobby shop when they tell me everything is backordered with no ETA?! More investigation is clearly required here.....

[kvn xxx-nt]

Maybe his LHS bought evething out that is why they are on backorder:D . My LHS has a couple graphite arms and shock towers in stock. When I went to get my xxx-4 my LHS says they were back ordered. Took them about a month to get them. Called another place and they were still getting them in stock??

[wcoyote_racer]

I think it's called one of the major principles of business. You get the stuff first to the places that will sell the most. Usually the places in BFE are the last to get parts because they are small and their volume of selling is low. Remember these companies are in business for money. The more you sell the more money you make. Usually suppliers allocate a certain percentage/type of stock using the old "where were are biggest volume of things sold". Those places will always get the parts first because of that priority.
I told the president of a company one time when he was stupid enough to ask, "What could we do to improve our sales here," that he needed to get in the products we sell all the time and stop sending more of the stuff we have 20 pallets of that we don't sell. The space saved would go to stocking more of the things we sell most of.
He said selling demographics controlled that and not him. I told him that he would go out of business if he didn't have any control on that. Five years later, four of which I worked for the company, it went bankrupt. The company? Homebase (the only competition for Home Depot). Just goes to show. Shipping by demographics can kill a company if they don't pay attention to the little stores.
BTW we ran $100,000 worth of merchandise through that store a day.

[cartmen34]

I would imagine that wcoyote is right about that. My LHS is probably not very high on any manufacturer's "ship to" list, even thought it is the best known/largest shop in the whole state.

Yet another disadvantage of living in BFE... it seems to me that losi might send my shop SOME stuff. Several of us have been patiently waiting for xxx-4 parts for some time now. The only things my shop has in stock is gears and diff covers. It just seems a little unrealistic that I have been waiting for front arms and shock towers for 2 months!

Jeez, I hate this place...can't wait to move back to silicon valley!!!

[DIrTjUNkie]

You pretty much pulled the words rite out of my mouth, :) except for the demographic part!:D

[andy497]

Well, my LHS is not too bad, but we have not seen graphite shock towers or a-arms since december. :(

On the other hand, they did just get some one-ways in...


About my steering, a pro at the track showed me his, and he had his endpoints set so the front of the steering arms would butt against the chassis on each side at full turn. I checked mine, and I'm still ~1/4th inch away both ways at full epa.

I think my solution is a kimbrough servo saver with longer crank length. Anybody had any experience with these?

[Cor Ruiten]

I want to put a 19-turn double or 19-turn triple in my XXX-4 and I was wondering if anyone could suggest what size pinion gear that I should use.

Thanks,

Cor

[Dingus]

I don't think I would bother with a dbl or a trpl, just go with the 19x1 (Chameleon, etc) and gear about like you would a stocker, maybe one or two teeth down.

[tarvymoto]

Dingus , I agree. Gear it 1 tooth down.

[Backfire]

My LHS recently(last day or two) received about 8 pr of Graphite front arms. They have numbers on them like the 'New' plastic arms, but the packaging doesn't say anything on them. Since Losi has stated that the graphite arms were on hold, do you think these are carryovers from the first batch, or have the new arms shipped already?

[cabbynate]

They are new. Sometimes Losi won't let you know on the package if parts are new or not.
Also, don't always think graphite is always the best material for every application. You never see 1/8 scale buggys with Graphite arms for a reason.;)

[wcoyote_racer]

Very true cabby. I always thought graphite was prone to break easier. I haven't ever had a xxx or an xx4, so I don't know how durable the graphite arms have been. I just know last weekend on an onroad race I saw a guy break one (Rear passenger side)on his TC3 after smacking a PVC pipe side rail. I know they are lighter and that's a plus. But they don't give very well. Or maybe they give, i.e. break, too much. :D I've always preferred nylon arms myself, especially if you can dye them. So if RPM comes out with some I may look into it. Nylon may also put less stress on the points that seem to have a tendency to break on this car.
I kind of wonder if all this capured pin design is the reason for some of the breaking. Especially since I have seen this happen with other new design cars on road and off. I think it puts stress at places that normally would not have any. Any thoughts?

[wcoyote_racer]

Hey Cartmen,
I wonder who your LHS is affiliated with, if anyone, aka if they have a wholesaler they buy from or if they order from Losi and other companies themselves. Sometimes it's the middle men between the suppliers that cause this problem. Sometimes if they can hook up with a bigger supplier (at the moment only Hobbytown USA comes to mind but there are others) they may have better luck in getting some things in. Only by doing it that way, they might have slightly higher prices because of what they pay for the parts. Simply because they would have to buy from them first. Otherwise they could open their own local franchise of that supplier under that suppliers name. Then they would get the parts for the same wholesale price as the supplier. By doing that they may also be higher on the priority list too.
I agree with supporting your LHS is always the best thing if you want to keep the hobby growing. I hear about your problem a lot. I've faced it here too. Stick with them and maybe ask them who is the dealer they deal through. It may be the dealer that is the problem. You could always complain to the dealer that if your store were given a better priority on orders you and many others would buy more stuff. Remember by saying that to the dealer, you are not only affecting your LHS business but the dealers too. Sometimes you have to threaten dealers by way of their pocketbook to get better volume. if a store grosses $2000 a month currently and they have trouble getting parts in. If they can have more on hand that could go to $6000 a month quickly.

[cabbynate]

wcoyote_racer,

I'm with you. I would like to see Nylon front and rear arms too.
I think Losi won't do it because you would see a tiny bit more flex than the materials they use now and that would take away a tiny bit of response from all areas of the car. They could make the Nylon as stiff as the Graphite but it would be more heavy and bulky and 1/10 scale competition cars can't be either of those. Now on the other hand, I would love RPM to make some front arms for the XXX-4 because you would not only break less arms but a lot less other things as well. I would not feel the differance in flex or the 5 grams more in wight. Not many non-factory guys would. RPM won't make them because the 1/10 scale 4WD class is small and Losi won't sell as many XXX-4's as Traxxas will sell T-Maxx's. If Associated made a 4WD buggy I think we would have a different story......
(and a much BIGGER 4WD class). http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/happy/xyxthumbs.gif

[cabbynate]

wcoyote_racer,

And about the captured pin design and parts breaking, I really don't know?:confused:
I kinda think with all the computer designing and all, the manufactures know how much force it will take to break parts.
The use of high tech materials and keeping parts as light as posable may also make a differance. I think they would call it the cost of High performance!!!!;)
(I call it parts replacement.)

[Backfire]

Thanks for the info. I know that the graphite parts tend to be a little less forgiving, but was curious if the new parts were out yet, or if the distributor was trying to pull a fast one:D:D You would never see nylon parts from Losi unless they have no other alternative. Nylon wouldn't break often enough for Losi to make money on parts! I am sure it killed them to make the XX4 front bulkhead from that stuff. They were making a killing on the stock one. You could probably take a stock arm to a local machine shop and have some made quite easily.

[jforkner]

The problem with the supply chain may not just be with the small LHS. I've been trying to find the Rear Sway Bar Kit (A-4257) since Losi announced it. Two of the big on-line stores (Horizon & Stormer) show "out of stock" or "on order" for this item.

My guess is that Losi can't/doesn't manufacture the parts fast enough or in enough quantities after they announce a new component.

[Dingus]

Well, Horizon is Losi is Horizon. Same thing. Horizon is also one of the biggest distributors around.

Don't know what the problem is, but if Horizon doesn't have it, it's probably not produced and it's their fault.

Is anyone else having problems getting in the Horizon site? It hasn't worked for me for a couple of days.

[cabbynate]

Dingus,
I just went on Horizon's site no prob. Horizon will distribute parts before they sell them on there web site. I got two of there sway bar kits for my XXX-4 three weeks ago from my LHS. I did have to order the aluminum front CVD's from Horizon though.

[wcoyote_racer]

Dingus,

I just got on the Horizon website this morning without a problem. Maybe they fixed it.

Cabby,
I have always thought it was odd that AE won't make an off road 4wd, especially since they have the TC3. You would think they would want in on money made in the 4wd class. Besides they have the TC3/XXX-S, T3/XXX-T, B3-B4/XXX competition going, it looks strange to not see a car to compliment the XXX-4. Maybe AE is afraid that Losi is wiping them out so bad that they need to concentrate on making better designs on their current cars? he he
The old "too much on the plate as is" problem. It would be interesting to see the shaft drive vs belt drive on the dirt and see who comes out on top.
Anyway, it's about competition against other drivers, not necessarily cars to a point. The better driver usually wins. And I don't mind kicking but in a 4wd class made of all Losi cars. Let's face it, AE has seriously shot themselves in the foot for ignoring the 4WD off road class and furthering the hobby. And now Losi is capitalizing on it. Thank you for taking the chance with the 4WD class Gil.

[Dingus]

I don't know, just deleted all my cookies and temp files and my bookmark. It just shows a blank page and the address line flips back and forth between the main url and the site policy asp???


Associated claims that the demand from the distributors is too low to warrant the time effort and $$$ to produce a 4wd and they really only sell to the distributors.

Seems fishy to me as Horizon is such a huge distributor...

[wcoyote_racer]

Cabby I noticed you said that you got a couple of sway bar kits. by chance were they the same diameter sway bar kits or different ones? I haven't got any for mine yet so I was wondering what diameter bar seems to work best for you. And nice smiling thumb there!

[cabbynate]

I have always thought it was odd that AE won't make an off road 4wd, especially since they have the TC3. You would think they would want in on money made in the 4wd class. Besides they have the TC3/XXX-S, T3/XXX-T, B3-B4/XXX competition going, it looks strange to not see a car to compliment the XXX-4. Maybe AE is afraid that Losi is wiping them out so bad that they need to concentrate on making better designs on their current cars? he he

Yea, I think kinda the same way. I also think they my think that if they ignore the class it will go away.
(It's not gonna happin!!);)

[cabbynate]

wcoyote,

They are the same diameter kits. There's a 0.050(my fav) a 0.055 0.060 and a 0.065.
I have only used the 0.050 and the 0.055 and the bigger one took to much rear traction away for the track I was driving on.
I got two kits because you can't get the bar's separate and if one gets bent you may be S.O.l if you can't get another one fast.

[DIrTjUNkie]

Right now its kind of a pitty, there are alot of people that I know that want to get into 4wd OR racing but there isnt a big selection. All of them are holding off on the XXX4 due to its Faulty Parts. I was talking to some guys at the track that are debating on selling em just because of the problems. :(
Well see.....

[cabbynate]

Maybe Losi should make a XXX-4 sport with durable Nylon parts that really give before they break. It might be a little more heaver and not handle as sharp but it would be great for the entry level racer. After they get use to it maybe they would buy a higher competition model?:confused:

[Dingus]

Well, I may be having some front arms machined from Delrin soon. Still in the estimate, market research phase at this point, but I spent the afternoon with a machinest.

Any ideas about design improvement? To keep it simple I was think of just adding a cross member to the existing "H" pattern closest to the inner hinge pin and of course using Delrin.

Right now the cost is looking to be about $21 per pair (not sure yet) with almost zero profit for the first 100 pair.

Is this a reasonable cost? If I can make a few bucks on the arms I am also loking to have the towers machined using Delrin as well. The cost would be a little less per tower.

Any and all input is welcomed. I am really interested to see if I could sell 1000 pair in a few months and for what cost.

respond here or email me at dmong@austin.rr.com

dennis

[ncrego]

Personally, I'd just make them solid, it seems like that would be the strongest. If you make them, I'll buy a set.

[mcquto]

I run a 9T flatliner and I am having problems with my motor getting VERY hot. So hot that it melts the solder off the brush shunts! I have it geared as low as I can With the white 94T spur and a 15T pinion. Is it possible that it is geared too low and thats what the heat is comming from? Does anyone else run a 9t motor?

[cabbynate]

mcquto,

Try a 17t pinion. Is the track you are racing on big or small?

[tarvymoto]

Mcquto , also are you running for a 5 minute race or a full battery pack when it gets that hot. I run a 10dle P-94 at 17/92 for 5 minute heats on a tight track.

[Backfire]

I would also check to see that your gear mesh and belt tension are not too tight. Binding from those could overwork the motor regardless of gear ratios.

[mcquto]

The track is large but has a very tight infield. I have the belt tension so that the only time you can hear it slip is during a hard stop from full speed. I am running 5 Min. races. Do you think the belt is too tight? It NEVER slips accelerating. Gear mesh is fine.

[Heavy Throttle]

Yeah, got my xxx4 BackBones this weekend. A very well spent upgrade. My rear tower didn't come in yet, but with the broken one and the back bones installed, I don't think they will ever break again once I get my new tower. Will have pictures soon my buggie soon too.

[cabbynate]

mcquto,

Go up to a 17t pinion and see if that helps. You may need to go
to an 18.

Also (if you didn't know) you need to cut the comm on that armature often. Maybe every 5 runs or so. ;)

[mcquto]

Thanks, I have my own lathe and cut my motors every week to keep them in top condition. Does anyone use com drops? I have been using them on my B3 in stock class before each race and it seems that they are acctually gumming up my motors. Has anyone else had this problem?

[cabbynate]

mcquto,

File the comm drops the wast paper basket.http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/rough/flackwhore.gif

[mcquto]

That would be my cocensus too.

[tarvymoto]

Com drops are usefull when breaking in new brushes after a com cut , but you shouldn't use them before every round. And definately don't use Kinwald 2000 drops ...they are the worst. You need some very thin drops like the Fantom drops, Atomik drops , or Zubak"s speed juice. ;)

[Backfire]

Originally posted by Dingus
I don't know, just deleted all my cookies and temp files and my bookmark. It just shows a blank page and the address line flips back and forth between the main url and the site policy asp???


I had the same problem when I was blocking cookies from the Horizon site. By deleting them, and having certain setting in your browser, you are probably preventing them from writing another cookie on your machine. If you allow cookies from that site all should be fine.

[mcquto]

The Kinwald 2000 drops are the ones I was using!:D :D

[tarvymoto]

Yeah , those are bad news....way to thick and sludgy. Try te get a hold on some of the Fantom com drops. Most Hobby shops can get them. I use Zubak's Speed Juice. Great Stuff. www.speedjuice.com Very light and they don't leave a goopy film.

[wcoyote_racer]

*looks at his comm drops* Mine are about 8 years old. I think it's time to get new ones. :D

[wcoyote_racer]

Well tarvy and cabby, the local club finished the track in one day and a lot of sweat. We all must have been excited to do it that quick. I think we are itching for off road season to begin.

I tried out Drake's setup minus the shock limiters and with stock pistions. Using the 11 double and Red taper pins front and rear also. No one way, I haven't bought one yet. I'm also mounting the shocks in the number two holes on the towers. Other than that, everything else except gearing should be the same.

So far, it's worked great! This car setup takes a little to get used to because it is fast and keeps on the edge of traction in the turns, but I'm also trying to stay on power as much as I can in and out of the turns. Hence maybe the little "on edge handling" I feel while I'm learning. Taking the bumps, jumps, and the slippery surface fairly well. I love how this thing reacts to roll center! The four guys that raced with me said I was being a little too agressive in those turns, and I probably was. I just like to know where the car breaks traction, just so I know what to expect. My lap times went down by about 3 seconds, which I thought was awesome.

All smiles so far! Btw finished 2nd out of four in friendly competition. I'm kind of wondering how the Matt Francis motor stands up against the Orion Chrome and Reedy Ti series. I'm thinking of adding another motor as a choice. I only have the two (MF and a Mr series) so far.

[cabbynate]

wcoyote_racer,

Sounds cool. I really had a problem with keeping on power in the turns but the one-way changed all that. I don't have any experience with the motor's you are talking about. I am using a Peak Aurora can with Banzai armatures. a 10x1 , 9x2 and a 11x1. They work great and only cost $26.00 a peace. www.banzaimotors.com

[wcoyote_racer]

Sounds like the one way is a must then. $26 for the motors? Not bad at all. Do you know if they are machine wound or hand wound armatures? I've never tried the new machine wound mods. I'm sure a new radio will help too. I'm doing this without throttle EPA adjustments. My old Airtronics VT2P can't match the adjustments I need. So there's two things to get before a new motor. :)

[cabbynate]

wcoyote,

No, not the hole motor, just the armature for $26.00. Yes, they are hand wound, balanced and epoxy diped. Then tested.

I just can't see buying lots of mod motors when I can use different turn arms in the same can.;)

[jforkner]

Gentlemen, I need some help adjusting my car (or my driving technique).

As a rookie (the XXX-4 is my first r/c car), I'm having trouble interpreting the guidelines in the manual for adjusting to actual track conditions. Specifically such items as: front kickup/anti-dive, differential tension, and overdrive/underdrive. Please note that my car is set up per the initial stock specs (i.e., shocks, kickup, gearing, etc.). I'm running a stock Reedy MVP motor with 25/92 gearing if that matters.

My car has a tendency to "swap ends" just after initiating a turn. As I approach a turn at speed, let off the throttle, and initiate the turn, the rear end wants to swing around---basically doing a 180. If I slow way down, the car tracks fine and "drives" through the corner. But if I carry any speed at all, I get the swap-ends-thing. What appears to be happening to my untrained eyes is that on tight turns, the front wheels maintain traction while the rear wheels do not. In this case, the car does not appear to be "drifting," since on large radius turns the car sets up nicely and all four wheels actually drift around the turn.

My track is hard-packed dirt, and is what I would call "loose" (although I don't have much experience interpreting track conditions).

Perhaps it's just driving technique (or lack thereof) that's causing the problem. But if there's a setup change that could help give me more rear wheel traction during tight cornering, I'd sure appreciate some tips.


Thanks,


Jack

[wcoyote_racer]

jforkner

I noticed that mentioned that you have a stock setup and the track is hard. One think you may want to consider is getting the sway bar kit. It should help the rear end keep planted on the track.
I'm wondering what way you have your battery positioned and the shock oil you are using. If you have the battery in the front position it will give you more up front traction. If it is in the back cutouts the opposite will be true.
I'm kind of at a queston on the anti squat thing too. My old car didn't have that adjustment. So I'm not sure on that. I've been using Adam Drakes stock setup and it has the anti squat setup on there. I just don't know how much of a difference the angles make. Also check your drive and suspension system for smooth operation. Preferably through all ranges of motion. If the front diff is grinding, or something is binding it will want to swap ends.

[wcoyote_racer]

Also I keep my diffs maybe 1/8 of a turn-1/4 of a turn less than fully tightened. The slipper I adjust by pushing the car backwards while on the track and going full throttle, noticing how quick it accellerates without fishtailing or too much spin out. It's more of a comfort setting and what seems best to you.
Overdrive/underdrive=front or back set of wheels runs faster than the other. One thing you must remember with this is if you use the bigger pully up front (overdrive), the front wheels will pull you through the turn but you will have less on throttle steering (called Push, or understeering) This is why front drive cars tend to understeer when racing. With my old car I was using a one way diff up front and running front overdrive (front wheels faster). But I could tap the brake and get quick steering with the one way which would overcome the disadvantages of the less on-power steering. I did the overdrive mostly to see if it would improve my front traction, which sounds like what you don't need. With the xxx-4, I don't mess with the drive setup and keep it stock. I have better performance and steering that way. Hope some of this helps.

[Backfire]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
Overdrive/underdrive=front or back set of wheels runs faster than the other. One thing you must remember with this is if you use the bigger pully up front (overdrive), the front wheels will pull you through the turn but you will have less on throttle steering (called Push, or understeering) If you run the large pulley (42t) up front, and the smaller pulley in the rear (41t) wouldn't that be the underdrive setup, not overdrive? With the 41t pulley in front, the front wheels will spin faster than the rears, pulling the car through the turn. But with your setup, the rear wheels will spin faster and would be pushing the car around the track?? Also, the overdrive setting will give more on throttle steering(steering exiting a turn), but will understeer going into the turns(off-power steering). The opposite is true for underdrive.

[LouisB]

I hope you don't mind if a XXX-S guy steps in here. Backfire is right, with the 41 tooth pulley in the front the front wheels will turn faster and you will get more on-power steering (coming out of the corners under power)
This will also decrease the amount of off-power turn in so your car should hook up better in loose conditions using an overdriven setup.

One thing that is very noticable in 2wd and less so in 4wd is battery pack position. If you have it back then you have more weight on the rear wheels but it will not necessarily stop the back end from coming round. With more weight in the rear the back end will "snap" round and spin out entering corners. If you move the battery forward then it will put more weight on the front wheels but it is less likely to spin out. Strange but true;)
jforkner, if you have the pack back at the moment I suggest moving it forward, or at least give it a test like that and see if it helps.

I've decided to stick with 2wd for a few more months. But I will be getting a XXX-4 so I'll see what I can learn on this thread. About 5 people are getting (or have got) XXX-4s at my track so i can pass on informaiton to them :)

[wcoyote_racer]

Backfire,
You are right on that. Somehow in my mind I was thinking bigger= faster, when I actually ment to say that I was running the front faster by using the smaller pully. (Referring to the XXX-4)
That is what I ment by overdrive. Fronts overdriving the rears.

The YZ didn't have that option. It had the option of a fine/coarse pitch belt/pully setup. I found out that one has a faster final drive ratio than the other. So I set it up to run the front faster in overdrive. (Keyword front) It's the same principle just doing it by belts instead of larger pullies. Sorry for any confusion.

And to reiterate and agree with Backfire. I do have understeer coming out of the corner but I have great turn in so I can position myself as straight as possible to exit the turn. Which is what I wanted.

[Backfire]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
And to reiterate and agree with Backfire. I do have understeer coming out of the corner but I have great turn in so I can position myself as straight as possible to exit the turn. Which is what I wanted.

So, from this description, I assume you are using the underdrive setup with the smaller 41t pulley in the rear? You still seem to have the two mixed up in that you say you have the smaller pulley in the front for an overdrive setup, but you are getting good off-power steering(turn in), and pushing on-power(exiting corners). The setup you describe is overdrive, but the handling sounds like underdrive????:confused:

[wcoyote_racer]

Backfire,
If I read your previous posts right. What you consider underdrive is the front wheels running faster than the rear? If so then that is the case. It has always been explained to me that if your front wheels are turning faster than your back ones you are running in front wheel overdrive setup. Which does give you more front traction and some turn in ability.

[jforkner]

Thanks for the input guys.

Regarding the over/underdrive scenario. I guess I don't understand how a 4-wheel drive car with four tires of the same diameter can run with either the fronts or rears going faster. Won't the other set drag? In other words, if all four tires are on the ground and the car goes forward such that the front tires go one complete revolution, won't the rears also go one complete revolution? If the rears go just over one revolution in that time, it seems like they would, of necessity, have to slip. And if they go slightly less than one revolution, it would seem like they had to drag. I still don't get how overdriving or underdriving a set of wheels can improve handling. Perhaps I should just try it and see... I believe I am experiencing oversteer which means I should try ????

Wcoyote---
I've been trying to get the sway bar kit since it was announced. My two main sources (Stormer & Horizon) have shown "not in stock" for as long as I've been looking.

I currently have the battery pack in the front position. I tried moving to the rear under the belief that it would help with rear traction---it did not.

My shock oil is stock---what came with the kit---30 wt. says the instructions.

[Backfire]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
Backfire,
If I read your previous posts right. What you consider underdrive is the front wheels running faster than the rear? If so then that is the case. It has always been explained to me that if your front wheels are turning faster than your back ones you are running in front wheel overdrive setup. Which does give you more front traction and some turn in ability. I agree with your description of overdrive and I have stated that in my posts as well. When the front wheels spin faster than the rear wheels, that is an overdrive setup. In the XXX-4 this is accomplished by placing the smaller 41t pulley in the front. I believe we agree on that. What I was trying to say in my last post is that your description of your car's handling characteristics seem to be more along the lines of an underdrive setup. With an overdrive setup, the front wheels pull the car around a corner when on power, but when off power the car will push. This translates into push when entering a turn because you tend to let off the throttle, but alot of steering when exiting because you get on the throttle as you exit a turn. The handling you described seems to be the opposite.

[LouisB]

Originally posted by jforkner
Regarding the over/underdrive scenario. I guess I don't understand how a 4-wheel drive car with four tires of the same diameter can run with either the fronts or rears going faster. Won't the other set drag? In other words, if all four tires are on the ground and the car goes forward such that the front tires go one complete revolution, won't the rears also go one complete revolution? If the rears go just over one revolution in that time, it seems like they would, of necessity, have to slip. And if they go slightly less than one revolution, it would seem like they had to drag. I still don't get how overdriving or underdriving a set of wheels can improve handling. Perhaps I should just try it and see... I believe I am experiencing oversteer which means I should try ????

The gearing difference is minimal and because the wheels spin it doesn't stress the drive-line. I still think you should try an overdriven set-up, 41 tooth pulley in the front.

[jforkner]

I still think you should try an overdriven set-up, 41 tooth pulley in the front.

I'll give it a shot, Louis. Thanks for the advice.


Jack

[wcoyote_racer]

Backfire,

The reason I was getting that type of a reaction on my YZ was because of the one way clutch I ran in it. It does do some wacky things. I haven't tried running the overdrive setup on my xxx-4 as of yet. With a one way ball diff it might react different than the one way hub setup on the YZ.

Louis,

As far as overdrive on a xxx-s, you would theoretically have more drag because of the high traction surface (carpet). But on off road, usually you won't have that traction advantage that you do have on road. It's on slippery surfaces that you need more traction that overdrive may help.
My track is hard, but has this thin layer of dust/rocks that makes it slippery. When you water it down lightly it can get bumpy after a race because of the cleatchy (hardpan/clay) bottom. As it dries, it then gets bumpy and slippery. Even with the raking and reprepping it just seems to add to it. Crazy eh?

[wcoyote_racer]

jforkner

I forgot to ask how tight you run your diffs? To a certain point, you can dial out some reactivity on your steering by loosening or tightening your diffs. I'm only talking minute adjustments, not like 1/4 turn here and 1/4 turn there. Try experimenting with that too.
The other way is to position the upper links in different holes or adding spacers/washers to them. It changes the agressiveness of your steering.
On the sway bar kit, try going to the Hobbytown USA site www.hobbytown.com. You can pic a store close to you and see what they have by choosing by manufacturer, or under Electric Car and Truck Parts, and order online too. Infact I'll check there for you.

[wcoyote_racer]

darn. looks like they are out of them too. Sorry man.

[LouisB]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
Louis,

As far as overdrive on a xxx-s, you would theoretically have more drag because of the high traction surface (carpet). But on off road, usually you won't have that traction advantage that you do have on road. It's on slippery surfaces that you need more traction that overdrive may help.

I race my XXX-S on slippey asphalt and I get quite a lot of wheel-spin at times. I think that most XXX-S drivers only use over/underdrive on asphalt/concrete because of the extra grip on carpet, as you mentioned.

When it's raining the TC tracks have less grip than the off-road tracks round here!

[cabbynate]

Originally posted by LouisB

One thing that is very noticable in 2wd and less so in 4wd is battery pack position. If you have it back then you have more weight on the rear wheels but it will not necessarily stop the back end from coming round. With more weight in the rear the back end will "snap" round and spin out entering corners. If you move the battery forward then it will put more weight on the front wheels but it is less likely to spin out. Strange but true;)
jforkner, if you have the pack back at the moment I suggest moving it forward, or at least give it a test like that and see if it helps.

I have found this to be true also.
Most of the factory Losi guy's run the battery forward.;)

[jforkner]

I appreciate all the insight you guys have provided.

I did notice while driving last night that my spinout problem seems to be most prevalent when I let off the throttle approaching a tight 180-degree turn, then turn the wheel. Unless I let the car slow down a bunch before I initiate the turn, I get the spinout. On large, sweeping turns I can leave the power up and the car drifts around the corner very nicely. Point being it seems to be an off-power phenomenon.

Based on Wcoyote's suggestion, what would you think of moving the shocks to the more upright position? The installation manual suggests that for the fronts, it will increase forward traction and on-power steering; for the rears, it will increase forward traction and slow initial reaction into the turn.

Another point of reference is the setup sheets by the various factory racers. I've compared them and of the five I've got, none are running over/underdrive. Likewise, most are running the stock shock locations, although they seem to be setup for Blue-Groove tracks (whatever-the-heck that is). Regardless, my track is just plain, ol' Northern California dirt.

I guess I'm looking for a solution that doesn't involve rebuilding the front differential. But if that's what it takes, so be it. I'm just wondering if relocating the shocks would be a good first step. And maybe it's all just my driving technique, and I'm expecting too much forgiveness from the car.

Thanks again for all the input.


Jack

[cabbynate]

although they seem to be setup for Blue-Groove tracks (whatever-the-heck that is). Regardless, my track is just plain, ol' Northern California dirt.

Blue-Groove is when hard packed tracks get run on so much that the rubber from the tires turns the dirt dark Blue/Black. You can wash the Groove away so they just sweep the track or use a blower. Blue-Groove tracks have alot of traction.

[Dingus]

I wonder if maybe you don't have the right tires for your track. I hate to se drift on any surface. Did you say you were running a stock motor? If so, that car should be planted just about anywhere.

Could be your driving style too. I personally like a car to rotate around a 180 (rear end swing, but still under control) and it can be tough to do if the car is not setup properly. The problem is usually dialing out a push, not the opposite.

Also, check out the turn in question very carefully. Is it particularly dry or compacted? Off camber? At the bottom of a slope or right after a jump? Does anyone else have a similar problem there?

Last thing, the best help comes from someone who can see what's going on trackside. Maybe ask a corner marshall to watch your car during the race get another opinion.

[wcoyote_racer]

As far as the shock location, at the bottom of Adam Drake's stock setup page it mentions about moving the shocks for slippery tracks, so that might be a good starting point too. Also to agree with Dingus, if you are using the stock tires, they are good for high traction surfaces. Low traction, with my experience and some info from cabby I have changed to step pin tires all the way around. If I had some old x-patterns I would run what my YZ did. Holeshot step pins on front and x pattern rears. The x-2000's I have not run yet. To me they look too much like the stock tires as far as depth of tread goes. I'm not sure how much bite they would get on my track without getting too much clay on them. I wonder if that trend (smaller pins) is because of all the blue groove tracks popping up.

[jforkner]

Dingus,

Yes, I'm running a stock motor.

I'm sure my driving technique is a big part of it. Actually the spinout (180) is pretty controlled (i.e., it's definitely predictable). Perhaps I should just learn how to use it more effectively.

The turn in question (actually turns) are dry, flat, and after a straight.

No one else seems to have the problem since the track is at my home---so no marshalls either. I've attached a photo in case that helps. The problem occurs at all 180 turns and most 90's as well.


Jack

[mcquto]

I had the same problem and I started running Losi pink X's and the rear end hooked up great.

[jforkner]

Here's the track photo. Got lost in the shuffle. It's still under construction.

I'll try a tire change.

Thanks again, guys.


Jack

[Dingus]

That is one sweet home track. Better than most of the shop tracks around here.

Might be a combo of many things including track prep and/or moisture on the turns.

Looks like fun for sure!

[cabbynate]

Dang Jack!!!!!
Do you need a border!!!(LOL:D :cool: :eek: )
That is a sweet track. Tha only problem would be getting me to go to work!!!!!:)

Now, on the serious side.:( (I don't like to be serious)
It looks like you could use red X-2000 or red ifmar-pins in the rear or proline holeshots. Try the stock front taper-pins with them and see how it works. If you need more steering, try some silver ifmar-pins up front. Also if you can find one, the one-way would really help on a track like that. The X's in the rear and a one-way and you will never want to leave the house!!
(except to get a mod motor!!!!)

;)

After a second look,(Well, maybe a fifth or sixth look) I might just try the ifmars front and rear.

[mcquto]

You could hold club races on a track like that. Do you ever go outside to find the neigbors racing on it? That a very nice home track.

[cabbynate]

I have to travel at least 50 miles to race on a track that nice.
It is perfect for the XXX-4. The jumps aren't to big.
You gotta love it!!!!
Also maybe a little water from time to time.
Dialed.
Then you would need a rear sway-bar.

[tarvymoto]

Jforker , the track looks great. If the tamp the dirt down and pack it as well as you can....then just spray a bit of water on it, the traction should improve greatly. You can also try Ifmar studs

[wcoyote_racer]

That is a cool track. The layout is kind of like ours, except we have one less switchback. The back straight is flat as is the front one. I'm going by your layout since ours is so close. After the second turn, we have a washboard section and that leads into a slightly 2 sided banked tight 3rd turn in a "U" shape then the next left with a mini straight and about a 3' or so tall double jump which then goes into a slightly wider right turn, and a rounded left on the back long straight with no jumps, into the 2 banked switchbacks and some added roughness in the 4 foot long "L" shape to the last turn that leads to the front straight. I think it's funny to see how close our track and yours is in layout. Talk about suspension setup and driving line being key.

[jforkner]

Well, one of the advantages of being retired is you have time to build tracks. Another 200 feet of pipe and it should be done. I will try wetting it a little and see if things improve.

Regarding tires. How much stock can you put in the Losi Tire Guide http://www.teamlosi.com/newprod/tirechart/tirechart.htm ? If I read it correctly and based on my situation (dry & slick), it would seem I should run the X-2000 or the stock Taper Pins. In comparing the photos of these two, they look very similar (although, I guess the pins on the X-2000 are a little larger).

As always, I appreciate your input.


Jack

[cabbynate]

The Losi tire guide is great. I would go with the red X-2000 and the red tapers up front or the red ifmar-pins in the rear and silver ifmar-pins in the front.;)

[igozoom]

OK, I say we crash the Fork's party. Let's just all show up. Dingus, you grab some cold ones, Tarvy, stop by and grab some steaks, and Wiley and Cabby can help JFork with vehicle set up. Nitro and I will do some track maint and add a jump or two. Then, IT IS ON !

Who is with me ? :D

I hope Mrs Fork doesn't mind company !

[igozoom]

That track is just begging for an 11 x 2!

[cabbynate]

Yea, A double jump or two wouldn't hurt.
By the way, where is Copperopolis, CA anyway????

[jforkner]

A XXX-4 Setup Party---what a great concept. Y'all are invited.

Copperopolis is 40 miles east of Stockton, near Sonora and Angels Camp. It's considered in the Mother Lode country of California.

[cabbynate]

I moved from Northern California (Sacramento) to Las Vegas 17 years ago.
I bet I could find ya!!!;)

[Dingus]

FROM: Austin, TX TO: Copperopolis, CA

Total Distance: 1763.83 miles Total Estimated Time: 30 hours, 15 minutes

Just checked on Mapquest, I don't think I can make it...
:(

[wcoyote_racer]

It's a nice idea. I'll say that! I'm from Idaho, and my brother used to live in San Diego. So finding you shouldn't be too difficult. Right now, I don't have the luxury, or money, to travel. My real car needs work before I could travel there. If I could swing a weekend a would. Heck I'd miss a race to do that. It would be a blast. And besides it's always cool to see what everyone really knows.
Too bad we couldn't do a webcast between us or something Hmm...weekly or bi monthly setup webcasts. I sense my mind's gears turning. I can smell the tire rubber, shock oil and motor cleaner already. :D

11 x 2? Ironic. That is what I'm running on the club track that is probably a couple of feet longer than jforkner's.

[jforkner]

If you guys can make it, I'll provide the 'ritas. I've got just the blender...

[mcquto]

Im there! and Im attacking that track with a 9X1 Flatliner.

[Buckyaga]

Originally posted by cabbynate
I moved from Northern California (Sacramento) to Las Vegas 17 years ago.
I bet I could find ya!!!;)

Im heading out to Vegas this Saturday and will be racing at Danseys Sunday and the following Wednesday with my XXX4

show up so that there is a class for me :)

[cabbynate]

Most all the fast guys are leaving to Scottsdale AZ for the Cactus Classic race that week.
Sorry man.:(

[wcoyote_racer]

Stupid me. I forgot about the cactus. I entered in that in 1990 and did fairly well. It was my first big race I entered and I had a lot of fun! Never did go back though. Might have to look for it next year.

[Buckyaga]

Originally posted by cabbynate
Most all the fast guys are leaving to Scottsdale AZ for the Cactus Classic race that week.
Sorry man.:(

wow.. you guys are headding out that early for the cactus ?

[cabbynate]

Yea, my roomate and I are leaving Wednesday and some people are leaving Tuesday. I can't say for sure about Sunday as I have a lot of preparing to do for Cactus still. If you go, the track is really hard packed and slick now. Tapers up front and Red Sprints
Should work OK. LP Holeshots on the rear M3's will work also and trinity grays are a must.

[wcoyote_racer]

Hey cabby,

Tarvy going too? You'll have to let us know how you (you guys) do. Maybe we will see your pics on the Losi website under Cactus Classic winners. Or at least have your names in the A mains. Good Luck! Too bad I won't have video of the action.

[cabbynate]

wcoyote,

Thanks for the support!!!!!:)
However, there are 60 racers signed up in the 4WD mod class and I bet at least 20 are factoys drivers so my out look is not so good.:(

Now in the stock truck class my chance is as good as anyones.
(I can drive me some stock truck!!):D

As far as Tarvy,
It would be a long trip for him but I would like to meet him in person there and it would be great if he went!!!!!
(And brought igo with em!!!!)

[wcoyote_racer]

It would be awesome! So..... Tarvy?? Igo?? You listening? I would have loved to be there for all the action. And 60 racers in 4wd class alone??? WOW. Well even if you make the C main or higher it would be a major accomplishment. Sounds like it would be a good time to learn about setups on XXX-4 and maybe some new stuff for it too. There should be plenty of them at the race. You running stock or modified?

About stock truck, it would be even better to get up there on both classes. Well for now, you will be our inside track on the Cactus. Lookout Kinwald and Drake. Cabby's coming.

I had to laugh when I read the thread on the B4. Someone claimed they had the front arms for it, but the car is still on order. Cart before the horse anyone?

[Backfire]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
I had to laugh when I read the thread on the B4. Someone claimed they had the front arms for it, but the car is still on order. Cart before the horse anyone?

But the real question is will they crumble like the first XXX-4 arms. Maybe they do, so AE wanted to make sure there were plenty of A-arms available:D :D

[PAPA MOOSE]

I was gonna say I would rather have the cart and wait for the horse, than have the horse with a broken leg and have to shoot the horse because we can't fix the leg!:(

[losixxx213]

My guess is that the delays are happening to make sure the b4 is strong enough so you don't have to spend more time fixing it than driving it.

[tarvymoto]

Well I won't be attending the Cactus this year (next year is a great possability) so it's up to Cabby to kick some A$$.
I will however be attending the Losi Championchips at Minnreg(Clearwater ,FL) in April...racing 4wd mod and Stock Truck ( I stock truck too)
:cool:

[mcquto]

Does anyone run the Novak brushless in their car? If so, how do you gear it? I purchased one tonight at the local track and it was defective right out of the box! I drove less than 1 lap and you could jog faster than the car was going and the speeed control was HOT. I tried every program and finally let the counter person try and we determined it to be faulty. When I get a new one I want to get a heads up as to how to gear it. Thanks.

[540ismiley]

I have a good deal on a xx4 worlds edition for $150 in awsome shape and a xxx4 brand new for $215. i am wondering which car to get? I want to know if the xx-4 is better or not. I have already asked the guys on the xx-4 board and of course they say the xx-4 we. what do u all think
thanks
josh

[tarvymoto]

Josh , the XXX4 is MUCH easier to work on. Both cars drive great but I would sugest the one that is less of a headache on the bench:XXX4;)

[wcoyote_racer]

mcquoto

The brushless system is for use only with the specially designed brushless speed controls due to the design of the motor. I have heard people blowing up GT-7s with the brushless motors. There is a conversion chart to show what certain brushless motors equal regular motors (like 10x2 and such). Most regular speed controllers can't handle the brushless motors because the brushless motors are actually equal lower winds (10 and lower).

The best way to find what you need is check the Novak site or go to the Thread on Brushless motors on here, in the general electrics catagory, or do a search in the thread for brushless motors.

As far as the xx-4 WE and the XXX-4 debate, I have to agree. The XXX-4 Is a breeze to work on and also has a better drivetrain which makes it faster. One less belt= less drag. It handles better too. I was looking into a WE before and drove one before I test drove an XXX-4 of another friend. I preferred the XXX-4.

[mcquto]

Thanks, but the speed control comes with the Novak system (Its even pre-soldered to the motor from the factory) I wasn't using a regular speed control.

[cabbynate]

540ismiley,
I had a XX-4WE and I can honestly say working on the XX is a real pain. Pain in your hands from all the screws you need to take out to get to the diffs. Pain in the neck from being bent over looking at it while wrenching. Also all that eye strain. (Istill don't think I recovered from that one and it shows in my driving skills:D )
Also the XXX-4 is more ajustable. It may cost you more to get it the way you want it but it is worth it IMO.

[Gmanlusk2004]

I'm one of those guys that said that the xx-4 WE is better, of course because i have one. But, if he were to get the xx-4 we, he would have all of the goodies, and be ready to race. He wouldn't need to buy anything. I agree that it is a lot harder to wrench on. I replaced a spur gear today and it took like 20 minutes! I think it is worth it though. What's going to happen is that he gets the xxx4 then like 2 months later the xxx4 KE or MFE or WE or graphite plus, will come out and all of the hop ups will come out and he'll need to spend like 300 bux to make it like the xx-4. everthing is graphite on the xx-4 we, and i have heard a lot of complaints about the xxx4 breaking because it is just molded plastic. Plus i have heard that it sits way too low (but has a good cg)

It all comes down to if he wants to have a drawn out, HUGE investment. Or if he wants to race right now, and not have to spend anymore.

L8r,
Garrett

[wcoyote_racer]

Gman have you driven a XXX-4 yet? As far as I know, (since I have an inside track) there are no immediate plans to come out with an Updated XXX-4. And the graphite arms on both cars have been suspect as far as breakage is concerned. Graphite is not necessarilly a great thing, sometimes it's actually too stiff. It really depends on the driving habits of the person.

The lower Cg effects stability and roll center recovery. Technically how well the car recovers in turns. The faster the car recovers the roll center, the quicker and more stable the car handles through the turns. The plastic arms have been fixed and the kits are updated now.

The only major problem with the WE versions is simply this. When you end up having to update it because the XXX-4s are running faster and smoother, you will have to get new chassis, bulkheads, drivetrain and covers, belts, Arms, Towers and differentials at the very least. And with the diffs going for 20-30 each, 40 for the chassis, 10 for the belt, 16 for the towers, 20 for the arms, CVDs, and however much for the drive bulkheads and belt cover...Well you get the idea. You will end up paying 400+ for something you could have gotten for 259 originally. The XXX-4.

[Dingus]

Losi doesn't exactly have the best reputation for parts support for discontinued cars. Also, the xx4 has a horribly inefficient drivetrain compared to the xxx-4.

Raced me xxx-4 for the first time today. Took a little gettin used to in the jumps, but very fun and easy to drive. Had a few very nasty wrecks including off the track twice. No breaks, except I destroyed the wing and drained a shock at the end of the main.

[Gmanlusk2004]

hey coyote... no need to bash here. I wasn't bashing, that's for sure. What are you thinking though???? You don't think that there is going to be a total graphite xxx-4? You must be smoking crack!:D But really... look at the xxx-4's the pros are using.. they have all the custom graphite crap. And why in the hell would xx-4 we owners have to update their buggies to be like the xxx-4?

The only major problem with the WE versions is simply this. When you end up having to update it because the XXX-4s are running faster and smoother, you will have to get new chassis, bulkheads, drivetrain and covers, belts, Arms, Towers and differentials at the very least. And with the diffs going for 20-30 each, 40 for the chassis, 10 for the belt, 16 for the towers, 20 for the arms, CVDs, and however much for the drive bulkheads and belt cover...Well you get the idea

Why do i need a new chassis, bulkheads, drivetrain and covers, belts, arms, towers, diffs, and CVDs??? These are BETTER than the stock, plastic counter parts that comes w/ the xxx-4 right now! CVDs??????????????????????

I obviously offended you by thinking that the xx-4 we is better than a xxx-4.
But hey... everyone has an opinion. Your's is just wrong.
hahaha

L8r,
Garrett

[Buckyaga]

the one thing I will give the XX4 over the XXX4, when they break parts, the XX4's fly farther :P

[Heavy Throttle]

Well here is my XXX 4.

http://lindquistproductions.com/heavy_throttle/losi_xxx4/body01/picture04.jpg

http://lindquistproductions.com/heavy_throttle/losi_xxx4/picture01.jpg

Griphate Chassis
Griphate Front Arms
Hitec 625 MG Servo
Novak GT7
Novak XXL
11x2 Mod Motor
Powered by Pro Match Sanyo 3000's (Matched)

This thing whomps on the track, I'm the only on at the track that has one, but it's been turning so many heads when I get on the track to race, and some others have intrest, can't wait to get a class going!

[Heavy Throttle]

Forgot these...

http://lindquistproductions.com/heavy_throttle/losi_xxx4/picture02.jpg
Front Version

http://lindquistproductions.com/heavy_throttle/losi_xxx4/picture03.jpg
Rear Version

These are the Team PRP Back Bones. They really do help, I've taken some really nasty tumbles and havn't broken a tower yet, again. :D

Team PRP XXX4 Back Bones (http://home.attbi.com/~teamprp/xxx4.html)

[cabbynate]

Gmanlusk2004,
I think what wcoyote is saying is that it would cost that much to make a XXX-4 out of a XX-4.

Factory drivers use graphite because it is lighter and stiffer.
They don't crash as much as we do and they can replace the hole car as often as they want for free. Heck, they get paid to race the darned things!!!! Also companies know if we see them with the trick stuff we will want it. The new losi XXX-4 plastic is great. No need for graphite. I said it before and I will say it again, if graphite was so strong, than 1/8 scale buggys would have arms made of it. Some parts are best left plastic. I won't lie, I have a grip of cash in my XXX-4 but it's worth every penny. I think if he has the money to add the threaded shock bodys and tie turn buckles and a one-way, than the new technology would be best.
Every one is initialed to there own opinion though. (I just like mine best:p :D)

[mcquto]

I was looking at those back bones but I was wondering, Will it cause the chassi to break in a crash instead of the shock tower? I use to run double shock towers front and rear till I rolled the car and cought the front tower just right. Instead of the tower breaking, the whole front of the chassi snapped off! I only run one tower in the front now. I would rather break a tower and lose a race that snap a chassi and end the night. I do still run a double tower in the rear buth the chassi seems stronger there.

[mcquto]

By the way, My local track just got the anti sway kits in, WOW, what a difference. I can hold it wide open through all the outer turns exept the one at the end of the straight. If I keep it full throttle through it the car gets too much traction and rolls instead of sliding. And my car moves FAST.

[cabbynate]

mcquto,
The backbones are real cool. In your hands they flex but on the car the support the shock towers from breaking do to hard landings and rollovers. I have been using them for awhile now and I have not broken a chassis because of them.
Do you screw on your front diff cover really tight? If so try to just screw in the screws untill they hold the cover tight enough to keep out the dirt. This will put less strain on the chassis where it starts to break first.;)

[mcquto]

Thanks, Ill give it a try.

[Heavy Throttle]

They also give you a small carbon fiber piece that you attach with nuts and bolts that fit around the chassis/diff case area. i've taken some really good tumbles and cartwheels and everything has held up great. I heard rumors of the same guys making some lightweight alium arms also.

Also got some RPM ball ends and the Lunsford Titanium Turnbuckles for my truck.

[wcoyote_racer]

Gman reread my earlier post. What I said that for Now there are no Immediate plans to come out with an all graphite XXX-4 kit. First off because the graphite shock towers are not done. They had to retool the design. Secondly don't expect any new rendition of this kit anytime before the IMFAR Worlds. There has not been enough time to truly see how an all graphite edition would work in serious competition. I never said anywhere in that post that they would not come out with an all graphite XXX-4 kit. They will. But not until Late 2003 or spring 2004 at the earliest. They need to see if that edition does well at the Worlds. So I figure at least a year by those estimates. And don't expect it to go for much less than 300-320 dollars. And that would be from my source.

Cabby you were right I was saying that to turn a XX-4 WE to a XXX-4 it would cost 400+ factoring in the cost of the original XX-4 WE and the parts to convert it. 259 is cheaper than 400 in the long run.

[Backfire]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
Secondly don't expect any new rendition of this kit anytime before the IMFAR Worlds. There has not been enough time to truly see how an all graphite edition would work in serious competition. The team guys have been running all graphite cars for a while, probably since they first started running them. I don't know what kind of time is necessary. The car doesn't perform that different from a plastic car. They delay the releases to make money:D If they can get everone who purchased a XXX-4 to buy all the upgrades seperate, they make $$$. Threaded shocks, ti-nitride shock shafts, titanium turnbuckles, graphite chassis, arms, towers....you are looking at $160+ in upgrades that they hope to sell. Once they see sales of the plastic kits and hopups slow, then they will bring out the graphite kit:)

[wcoyote_racer]

It's pure marketing. Around December/January time frame, after the worlds. That is what I am hearing. Hopefully in time for Christmas. I figured since someone was wanting to know about an all graphite kit, I'd let you in on it. Yes they don't release the kits right away so they can seel the stuff separately too. But I also know they had to retool a few things with the graphite setups. Mostly to make sure that the tower and arm breakage is less. So although the car would look similar except with all graphite, there will be slight differences. And Yes, Losi will offer the upgrades for the regular cars as always.

I think as we see faster designs come out XXX-4G, B4, TC-4, the 4X (if that is what they name it) You will see that breakage may become more of a problem in the heavier cars. I know the touring car class has this problem to some degree, but they run on a lot smoother tracks. Hopefully they will realize that to the average backyard racer (or professional), crashes will happen. Maybe they will come out with another material that has all the pluses of graphite but less brittle. Something that even the racers prefer. I don't think that the 2WD cars will have near the problems with the materials they use now. Eventually as you get faster, you need to reinforce those stress points for less repair time. I think they have done a great job with the current technology of materials, but I think those materials are reaching their limits.

I'll cross my fingers and hope that the next big thing in RC has to do with a new type of lighter/stronger materials that will take this hobby to the next level and speed.

[Dingus]

Speaking of reliability and materials...

I am having front arms machined this week from Delrin. The design will include an additional cross member near the inner hinge pin and more material all around.

I am also incuding two extra shock mounting holes on either side of the existing holes for additional setup options.

Depending on the sales success of the arms, I am also looking to produce towers as well in the near future.

If you are interested in a pair from the first batch, let me know and we can discuss the details.

I wish I had the budget to give them away for testing, but I just can't afford it yet. The max price will be $20 a pair at this point and I will not send any out until I've had a chance to be sure they fit well enough and are reasonably strong. I should have that done by the weeks end.

I'll post pics as soon as humanly possible.

I have no site yet, but that will be coming soon. In the mean time, I will sell them direct or through ebay. I am a power seller now. ID dmong2 if you want to check my feedback.

My email: dmong@austin.rr.com

[jforkner]

Wcoyote, Cabby, etc.

About a week ago you guys gave me some tips to help me stop a spin-out problem I was having. Well I'm happy to report that a pair of red X2000 tires on the rear made a world of difference. I still have the stock red taper pins in front. The car's handling is unbelievably tight now; and while I can still make the rear end swing out, it's nowhere near the 180 spin-outs I was experiencing.

Thanks to all for the advice. I may be ready for a mod motor soon.



Jack

[fitj]

Just wanted to say hello to everyone out there. Just got my XXX-4 last friday, had it together by saturday and painted by sunday. Haven't had a chance to really run it yet, though, since the local track is currently in the middle of a rebuild and there has been alot of rain lately. Hopefully saturday or sunday I can get a chance to run it. I am running it in the stock setup with a P2K2 Pro w/ 23 tooth pinion and LRP speed control with 3300mah pack and JR gear. I'd like to run a mod motor at some point, but the guy at my LHS says the other 6-8 guys with XXX-4's are all running about the same stock stuff.

I'm coming from an 1/8 nitro buggy, so I don't think I'll have much trouble handling it, just got to be a little more careful. no titanium to take the punishment.

A couple of posts back someone made a comment about the brushless not working well on the regular speed controller. for those who don't know (forgive the rant, I'm a EE) there is no way in @!## that a regular speed control will work with a brushless. brushlesses work by rotating an electromagnetic field around permanent magnets attached to the armature. to do this, the controller has to send a varied AC signal signal to the motor, not the DC sent to a standard comm motor. Again, sorry for the rant. If you want more, I'll start quoting my electromechanics textbook.

Pictures coming soon

[wcoyote_racer]

Hello fit

Good luck with your new Buggy! About the brushless That is why I had put in on my post that I had seen a GT7 get burned up too, from someone who tried to use it in combination with the brushless. Lots of smoke, and $$$ down the drain.

For background purposes, I build, design, and help assemble Circuit boards and assemblies for the internet, communications and data storage networks. The last one being fancy words for High dollar ethernet cards. So I can probably understand those books.

jforkner

Glad to see that our advice helped you out. I'm sure with the knowlegebase we have that reads this, most any question could be answered. Hopefully we are all able to help with any other questions.

[mcquto]

I race in the 4wd open class (anything goes) and I run either a Speedworks Cryptonite 9T double or a D5 Flatliner 9T single. I have installed the aluminum heat sink and the aluminum motor clamp made by Trinity and I am still cooking motors. What gearing suggestions would you have and any other ideas to cool the motors down. I even cut and installed a custom air scoop on the body to try to pull in more air. Am I the only one getting my motors hot enough to melt the solder off the brush shunts and wires? I am currently geared with a 15T pinion and a stock spur.

[ncrego]

I had a problem with mine heating way up, it turned out that I had the belt tension too tight. If the car doesn't coast when ou let off the gas, then the belt might be too tight, ot the mesh too tight. Just something to check.

[mcquto]

I have the belt as loose as I can set it without it slipping. The car does roll freely and smoothly without the motor in it.

[Backfire]

What kind of timing are you running on your mod motors? That can play a big part in how hot a motor runs. Also, does it get that hot in a 5 minute race, or after a prolonged practice run?

[mcquto]

The timing is set at 20' and that is with a 5 Min race. I only get about 5 and a half min. out of the batt. using panasonic 3000s.

[fitj]

here's my XXX-4 and it's big brother, the storm

[tarvymoto]

itj , ya just can't beet 4wd:D

That's a goo look'n pair

[wcoyote_racer]

Yeah nice pic! It does kind of look like bigger brother and younger brother.

mcquto I noticed in answer to ncrego's post, you said the car rolls freely without the motor in it. But he asked if it is able to coast when you let off the gas (with the motor in it). So I'm not sure if you didn't understand what he ment or just explained it wrong. Make sure your gear mesh between your spur and pinion is not too tight also.

Usually by taking a small piece of paper along the spur, then aligning the pinion up to the spur with the paper sandwiched in between both the pinion and spur, then tightening the motor in place should help. Then remove the paper. It gives you the mesh you need between pinion and spur. You should be able to remove the paper without ripping it. If you have to tug hard on the paper to remove it, then your mesh is too tight. Tight mesh causes friction in the drivetrain which will make a motor extremely hot.

[mcquto]

Maybe I didn't explain it right. The car rolls freely with the motor too. Its not binding at the pinion. If anything it probably has too much play. I usually eyeball it with enough slop to fit 3 layers of paper between them. I never have them too close together. I learned that lesson with a B3 that ate a brand new spur one race.:D

[fitj]

for those of you who race, where do you put a transponder? only thing I can think of is putting a hole in the battery hold down bar.

[Dingus]

I put a personal transponder servo taped to the top of the servo.

For a regular trasnponder, either put a hole in the roof of the body or right behind the servo.

Another place: use a tc3 lexan transponder mount (or other similar) taped to the servo so the transponder hangs right behind the servo.

You'll have to mount the receiver vertically against the drivetrain wall to do this.

[Backfire]

You can see the lexan transponder mount here.

[ncrego]

I put mine in a hole over the battery in the side window. Works great.

[wcoyote_racer]

Mcquto

3 piecesof paper???? That might be too much. Of course with new gears I can't remember how much space they usually have.

[David Wall]

My Personal transponder mounts on top of my servo!! Hopefully soon the old big transponders will be a thing of the past.

BANZAI MOTORS
ADRIAN'S HOBBIES
TEAM LOOSE RACING

[mcquto]

Those 3 pieces would be a tight fit but I have brand new gears. By the way I have my personal transponder servo taped to the belt chamber.