LOSI XXX-4 Forum v1.0

[fitj]

unfortunately my track isn't using personal transponders, so I can't tape them down. My hobby shop guy suggested I try and make a lexan holder that connects to the front screw of the slipper cover and the antenna mount. I could put a hole in the top of the canopy, but I'd rather not.

[winning edge designs]

Mcquto, You may need to back your timing down to 12-15 degrees and gear up. Undergearing adds heat, not as badly as overgearing, but it does. I run a 10x2 or 10x1 and i'm geared at 19 using the stock spur. But i'm not too aggressive on the throttle, and can run overgeared because of that. Most would probably like an 18 pinion with a 10 and 17-18 with a 9 turn? Note:I'm also getting 6 minutes or more of runtime using off the shelf Orion 3000's with the 19 pinion, 10 turn combination..............Also try and stay away from high silver "race" brushes, they increase the amperage the motor can pull, that adds heat as well.........Jim

[Heavy Throttle]

Hi everyone...

I've been running my xxx4 on the local track. No real racing cause no one else has one yet, but during a rougher section of the track the buggy seems to want to jump around and loose contact with the ground.

Im using stock pistions, springs, and 35 wt oil. I'm thinking of going to a 25-30 wt oil. Any other sugestions?

Thanks...

[cabbynate]

Heavy Throttle,

Yes, try 25wt in the rear and 30wt up front.
If your rear end still bounces to much than try yellow springs in the rear as well with 1dg pro squat. Let us know how this works.

[fitj]

I helped remodel my lhs's track saturday and got to run on it sunday when most of the mud had dried up. Had stock oil up front, 35 in rear. shock collars set about 1/2 - 3/4" down from top, stock springs. car ran great on the smooth sections of track, but when it got to the REALLY rough part (thick mud, unleveled) the poor thing was bouncing all over the place. I think that is going to be smoothed out soon. I tried to compress the collars some more, about an inch down, but then I would end up bouncing off of every jump and flipping. It was hard enough to keep from rolling with the springs soft. If I was in any way nose down, I would just flip end over end. I also really noticed the problem with the battery coming out. no problem with soldered loose cells, but stick pack flew out all the time. it even yanked the top of esc off of its bottom plate. even with minor problems, it was fun as hell. later

[540ismiley]

can this radio be crystal-less? I found a really good deal on one
josh
thanks

[fitj]

does anyone know if any of the xxx-s parts made by dynamite and others will work on the xxx-4? if so, which ones.

[wcoyote_racer]

fitj

As far as the shock springs go, clamping them down further only raises the ride height and the center of gravity which will only worsen the reaction to bumps. Tighter springs will also make the car bouncy. Most of the time you want to adjust the springs so your arms are level or just above level with the chassis. What you need to do is lower your shock oil weight. Try what cabby said previously, 25wt in the rear and 30 up front. It should improve the shocks response. You may also need to change your springs to softer setup too. Try the shock oil first.

I'm not sure about the compatability of aftermarket xxx-s and xxx-4 parts. There are some differences in the kits, like the xxx-4 chassis is longer. I know you can use the one way from the xxx-s in the xxx-4, but you do have to modify the drive pins slightly (if I remember right).

[wcoyote_racer]

Hey Cabby!

Was that you in the 2WD stock truck C Main and the 4WD E Main?
Just curious. If so, you did pretty good. You can drive some stock truck! And not bad at all with your XXX-4 considering you haven't had it all that long. As with the rest of us I guess.

[cabbynate]

wcoyote,
Yea, That was me.:(
I really should have done better in both classes.
I give so much advice on how to make a car work great but when it comes to mine well, I really need to take my own advise. I had to much steering with the truck and 4WD but I really did nothing about it. I just raced. I could have made them so much easier to drive but I didn't. I really had fun though. I think I was having so much fun talking to every one and stuff that when it was time to race I went up and raced, finished the heat and went off to talk to more people. Next year I will take it more seriously. The track was sweet. I never ran my XXX-4 on a track like that.
BK was pulling wheelies down the back stright with his XXX-4!!!
You should have seen it!!!!:eek:

[winning edge designs]

fitj, the only things compatible are the motor clamp, battery hold down and heatsink. Anything to do with suspension arms, towers, or mounts is different, as are the hubs, etc...........Jim

[wcoyote_racer]

Cabby, that is why I haven't gone to the Cactus Classic in so long. I wasn't serious enough into racing to really do well. I probably would have been worrying about what I could see rather than adjustments on my own car too.

The point is that you had fun. And you got to see some of the big guys race. I figure I will go next year, once I have a year's worth of racing under my belt again. Need to make sure that I'm competitive at the local track first you know. I'm still getting used to the faster motors and new adjustments I've never worked with. It would have been awesome to see Kinwald's XXX-4 pulling wheelies though. :cool:

Looks like I'm not going to run this weekend, moving into a new place. You never know how much RC stuff (and tools) you have until you move or start racing. The grass isn't in yet at the place. Maybe Monday I'll rip it around the dirt front yard and the back too. I think I'll look into forgoing the grass and just make the yard into tracks. Somehow though I don't think that will fly for very long.

[cabbynate]

wcoyote, our pit space was right on the corner of the south/east corner of the track. People where actually standing under our easy up for shade to watch the racing. It was great!!!! I had more fun watching than I had racing and I had lots of fun racing.
The track was built 3/4/2002 so the AZ guys and gals had 2 1/2 weeks to practice and get set up. Not saying I would have done any better but if I had that kind of time to practice and set up my cars but who knows?
Maybe next year we will take a couple weeks off and go early and race with the locals and get set up and then see what happens. Scottsdale is a really cool city and I would have liked to of had time to go out and see the sights as well as race.

[wcoyote_racer]

Yeah that area is nice. I have been both there and in Tucson. My aunt winters in Yuma and summers in Show Low. Now if only I had relatives in Scottsdale, I'd be at the Cactus every year. :D

Monday may be out of the question to run now. We've got rain..I don't like buggying in a mud bog.

[cabbynate]

I don't think the XXX-4's like mud anyway. I think they are best suited for hard packed or blue groove tracks.

[wcoyote_racer]

True. I'll leave the mud to my old Tamiya Super Shot. :D Can you tell my main focus? (4WD buggy).

One more thing, do you usually use the GP3300's or the Sanyos? A while back I got some 7 cell Sanyo 3000's (I have yet to assemble them) I'm currently using my old 1700 SCR pack to run with while I do adjustments on handling and just goofing off. The poor pack has been rebuilt twice, saddle for the YZ-10, then stick setup to use on my Losi Pro SE but it's still going. I've always wondered why the 7 cell packs don't last as long (run time) as the 6 cells. I know they have the 1.2 volts extra and that extra current contributes to it, but I would have thought it would be very little. I was hoping to run 7 cells in the races, just to see if it made the difference between winning and losing.

[winning edge designs]

wcoyote_racer, I have plenty of runtime with a 10 turn and sanyo 3000's. over 6 minutes in fact. 3300's are more important for on-road, but even there there is a 10 turn motor limit now for roar events...Those old 1700's used to take a beating, guess that's why they obsoleted them out, hard to sell packs when they last so long, right? The 7 cell packs, not only add voltage, but they add wieght. There has been many a time in the past we ran 13 turns with 7 cells against 10 or 11's with 6 and the 6 cell combo was faster And handled better.............The extra voltage can be thought of as pressure, since voltage is the force that delivers the amperage. The added voltage of a 7 cell, rated at the same mah as a 6 cell pack adds up to more power and shorter runtime, in fact it's a very measurable amount..........Jim

[wcoyote_racer]

Jim,

So I guess I need to by a few more loose 7 cell packs so can take the extra ones and make another pack out of them. Either that or I have an extra great 7 cell pack to make.

[540ismiley]

What do you all think about aluminum parts. i have found a way to make f/r a arms and shock towers. what do you all think
josh

[ncrego]

The problem with Aluminum parts isn't just the weight, but that you are generally moving a point of failure further down the train. So instead of the a-arm, maybe it'd be the pivot blocks, ot spindles, or something else. So, to really get a tough car, you need to make the entire front end out of aluminum, which is something I'd like to see, spindles, pivot blocks, and arms. Losi has just announced the pivot blocks (already have a set on order), so if you make the arms, and spindles, then the front would be tough.

You'd still have to worrk about the parts getting bent, but it'd still be cool. I think that Delrin is a better option, but if you could get them out of aluminum, I'd buy a set in a second.

[winning edge designs]

More problems with aluminum.....It has poor memory, that is if tweaked it stays that way. Rather then a broken part it will be bent and make for very poor handling. The only way to avoid this is substantially beefier aluminum parts, which may weigh twice as much as standard composite parts. This poses a problem with unsprung wieght. There will also be the cost issue, $40-50 for a pair of arms, rather then $10-12? Aluminum also becomes sloppy quickly in off-road conditions...Not to mention the parts breakage will just move elsewhere, even with all aluminum front ends, the problem would likely move to the chassis shock tower mounting area............These are just a few of the reasons that not even the fastest of R/C beasts uses aluminum arms from any manufacturer in kit form in 1/10th or even 1/8th scale........Jim

[Dingus]

Hey all,

Well, I have the first prototypes of the machined Delrin arms for the xxx-4.

I'm not sure if I will be going into full scale production or not as my cost per unit is higher than I expected.

They turned out very nice. I've only had a chance to test them inthe street so far. They are much stiffer than the stock plastic units, almost zero flex in any direction and, of course, they weigh a bit more.

I would probably have to charge $25 to make it worth while. If there is enough interest, I could probably make it happen. I just don't know yet.

Any and all input is welcomed.

dennis

[Dingus]

Another

[Dingus]

More

[Dingus]

oops

[Dingus]

More again

[Dingus]

Last one

[cartmen34]

SWEET!! PLEASE let us know if you plan selling these. I'd gladly plop down $25 for a set of those.

I'd rather pay now and have the confidence to drive flat out then driving tentativly because I'm afraid of breaking arms.

[Dingus]

Well, i really want to and that is encouraging.

All the prep work is done and they can be cut at my request rather quickly right here in the heart of Austin, Texas.

Cost is the main issue right now, but if I can sell at least 100 to 200 at $25, then I think I can make it happen.

I just don't want to be stuck with a bunch of these.

So, spread the word, I would also sell them through ebay if I get this thing off the ground.

Please post any thoughts positive or negative (I can take it, lol).

You can also email me at dmong@austin.rr.com

[mcquto]

You crash that sucker a lot don't you?:D :D :D

[winning edge designs]

If you're going to have them machined with the bar in the inner arm, the aluminum spacers aren't needed. They are there on the stock arms to keep the material from pinching together and snapping easier............Jim

[Dingus]

Well, so far so good.

I'm in the process of having the first 50 pair machined now and they should be ready to ship by the end of the week.

If you want to reserve a pair, email me and I'll put you on the preorder list. No payment or commitment required until I have them in my posession and ready to go out the door.

The cost will be $25 per pair plus $1.50 s/h. I accept MO and paypal.

If you have any reservations about me as a seller, please check my ebay feedback id: dmong2

I will sell the ams through ebay as well if you are more comfortable with that venue.

I would recommend leaving the aluminum spacer in place to keep the hinge pin from wandering forward unless there is another way to secure it that I haven't thought of yet.

The only difference between the part pictured above and the production arms is the amount of material around the inner hinge pin hole. Increasing that just a bit as that is the weakest part of the arm.

dennis

dmong@austin.rr.com

[Heavy Throttle]

I think the metal sleeve is there to keep the suspension pin from comming out. If it really did it's job of not allowing it from pinching together from the start most of use wouldn't have broken the arms in that area, mine sure did.

His design with that bar is very important to stop the breakage in that area. Most other a-arms already have that bar on the arms. Sometimes I wonder if company's make these "flaws" just to make some more money on people buying parts.

Those Delrin pieces look sweet, but I think you can shave alot more weight off of them by not making them so "square".

[Dingus]

I looked into that, but the weight of Delrin really stems from the density of the material.

Also, I didn't want to go too elaborate. Costs just go through the roof as soon as you add anything that makes machine time longer.

The primary benefits of my arms is lateral stiffness, durability, and added adjustability.

[Dingus]

Met with the CAD guy today and here is a pic of the revisions. We found an economical way to smooth the corners. Looks much better, probably not much lighter.

The weight difference is only .4 oz per arm heavier than the plastic units. Not a significant difference IMHO for a non rotating part.

Also added some material around the hinge pin holes. It's more of a a squared end as opposed to the first prototype rounded ends.

Heavy, thanks for the input!

[tarvymoto]

Jim . are you racing 4wd at the Losi race next week? If so ... Factory or Sportsman? I'll be there running Sports 4wd and Stock Truck.

Travis Adams


Dingus , that cad looks awesome...nice work.

[winning edge designs]

The aluminum spacer serves two purposes, otherwise a standard much less expensive collar and set screw would have been used to hold the pin.
As far as durability, I have yet to break any parts on the car, I took off the origional arms for graphite units and have them still. Just lucky I guess.


tarvymoto, I'll be stopping by the race, but can't race in it. Since I started a repair shop business (MotorSports Auto Service) a couple months ago it would be hard to take a week off to race now. I'm still racing club races and will be racing at Minnreg this weekend though. I'll look you up, or you can just look for the old guy hangin' out with the fast guys, LOL!......ttyl, Jim

[D_Maniac]

I would like to be able to run on pavement better. Do the xxx-s wheels fit on the xxx-4 and are there any other mods I can do for better road handling.

[winning edge designs]

D maniac, to get the XXXS wheels to fit you'll need smaller roll pins in the outer axles. You may even need out CVD axles from the sedan and Inner parts for the XXX4. As well as the hex peices from the sedan. This could add up to almost as much as getting a sedan when complete?....I would think taper pins or especially sprints would be good street tires, imo. They also wouldn't need any mods to work!.....Jim

[tarvymoto]

jim , good points.

You could also add some internal limiters to the shocks to reduce the droop and put some stiff springs on... blue up front and orange rear?

[D_Maniac]

Thanks for the ideas.

Yes, I think you guys are write, I would need front and back CVDs, wheels and tires. Then add stiffer springs and a rear sway bar and it starts to get pricey.

I think I will do tires, springs and a rear sway bar.

I just wanted a little more road performance to compete with my bosses Tamiya Ferrari F2001 On-Road Formula One Car.

[Dingus]

Hello again,

The arms are finished and ready to ship.

Attached is a pic of the finished product.

Email me at dmong@austin.rr.com iff you would like a pair. $25 plus $1.50 s/h

Thanks,

dennis

[MagicD]

I don't own a XXX-4 (or any Losi for that matter) but those custom arms are REALLY NICE looking. Excellent work!

Happy Racing!

[born2rc]

You guys should just bolt two shock towers together (this works only in the back). All you have to do is get longer screws and it will hold a lot better. :)

[cartmen34]

Dingus, you have mail. I'm interested in buying a pair.

Thanks!

[wcoyote_racer]

Well Just finally got set up from moving, and catching up on the latest. Nice design there on those arms! Now things have settled down a bit maybe I can concentrate on my XXX-4 again.

[jforkner]

Me again---the rookie.

I have a question about tire wear; and since I’m new to this, I’m not sure what’s normal. My stock, front tires (Taper-Pins) have completely worn the pins off the center portion of the tire---see attached photo. Interestingly, the bars in the middle do not seem to have worn much at all.

I’m running the car on my home track that is fairly hard dirt. The car’s been run probably about 30 times, and the run time is about 12 – 15 minutes per time.

I guess my questions are, "Is this normal?" Do these tires wear out that quickly? Do some tread patterns last longer than others? Since this is my first car, I have no basis for comparison.

As usual, thanks for your help.


Jack

[jforkner]

Have any of you tried the Losi Dirt Spec tires on your car? Fronts and/or rears? If so, how'd they work?


Jack

[Dingus]

Tires can wear slower or faster depending on conditions.

The kit tires are red compound which is a little soft IMO.

I generally buy Silver compound, but my tracks are also loose, loamy dirt, so the softer compounds don't really add much.

So far, the kit tires on my car have only seen asphault and test runs. They just don't work around here.

You could also try other brands, like Panther www.panthertire.com they make buggy rears, but not fronts for 4wd.

They also make really nice truck tires that last a good long time. Just be careful of the foams, they can be pretty big and firm.

[King]

I have a Losi XXX4 on the way with some titanium links. What should I look for when building the kit. It's going to have a Trinity P94 12x2 and a novak GT7 with Racer Hobbies Gp 3300 cells. Has any body run the front one way diff and how does it feel on the track?:D :cool:

[Dingus]

I thought was an easy build. Be sure to put the correct amount of limiters in the shocks or you might lose drive shafts out the end of the outdrives.

I tried the one way and went right back to the diff. The tracks I tried it on were hard with loose dirt on top.

I like the way iit made the car land off the jumps, but hated everything else about it.

Also, the outdrives on the oneway I had were shorter than the stock outdrives, so that was a prob as well. If you break an arm or a pivot support with the oneway, your outdrives will go flying.

[Gutter Ball]

You know those rings on the one way? Are they necessary? I trimmed the stubs on the CVD down, but when the car is off the ground, the angle of the stubs rub against the rings and tick like crazy! I already warped the one side...I was thinking about taking them off or going back to a diff.

[cabbynate]

You should keep the rings. You may need to shave a little more off the CVD studs.

[cabbynate]

Where did every body go!!!!http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/sad/confused5.gif

[jforkner]

Cabby,

I been thinkin' the same thing for over a week.

It seemed to dry up right after the database problem.


Jack

[cabbynate]

Well, I ordered the new XXX-4 Aluminum pivot mounts all the way around for my buggy.
I broke two front 7.5 dg fronts and a front inner pivot mount at Cactus so I think the machined aluminum should up much better. I oreded them from Horizon.

[wcoyote_racer]

Well guys I'm here. I just had to do two moves (me and the parents) on the last weekend of March. It took a bit to get rehooked up on the net thanks to some boneheads at the telephone company. I got a 640K connection at 256K price out of it though. :cool: Anyway I should be back to racing soon.

[tarvymoto]

Cabby , I just picked up a full set of the aluminum pivot supports from my LHS. I'm going to install'm today. They should definately prevent any breakage from those parts.

[Dingus]

Has anyone run with the al pivot blocks yet?

I wonder what point where the shock will be transferred to in a hard hit?

Any thoughts?

[fitj]

I've seriously considered the AL pivots, partially the cool factor and partially a strange wreck. I landed pretty much nose down on one wheel after jumping a 4 ft tabletop. Went about ten feet into a turn and the front end just dropped. Heres the strange part. Nothing was actually broken. the entire arm was disconnected at the pivot. it was like someone had just slid the hinge pin out. except it was still in place and completely unhurt. I think that one of the pivot parts must have actually flexed quite a bit to let it come out.

only showstopper of the whole crash: the little red ballcup thingy that the pin goes in was gone and the LHS has absolutely NO XXX-4 parts in yet. even tore open a xxx-s to see if it had some (no luck) semi functional solution: shock o-ring. looks ugly but works ok. anybody know what part kit to order to get more of these?

[Dingus]

I lost one of those too.

Part number can be found at Losi's site, but I still haven't found one yet.

I took an only nylon nut from an Associated car and attached it to a Dremel. Spun it against sandpaper for a while until it fit, then drilled out enough room for the pin. Works OK.

If you just need to finish a race. Take an antenna cap and cut to size ans slip over the pin. It fills the space, but still moves too much to last any longer than a few heats.

[cabbynate]

Cool tarvy,
Let us know how they fit. I only ran the buggy on two real tracks. Socal raceway and SRS and found out with real speed you need real talent or you find out the weak links
in your R/C car real fast. The red pivot balls come in a pack of 10 or so. #A-6053.

fitj,
after you get the new pivot balls you can try this: When you put it all together, with the set screw loose push the hinge pin all the way back with a L-driver wedging it up against the front bumper and with your 1/16" driver in the set screw of the front hinge pin retainer push that forward and tighten up the screw like this. If you do it right you will have no slop in your front arms and the hinge pins won't pop out. Instead if you take a hard hit maybe something may break but the pins won't just pop out.

[jforkner]

Fellas,

What's the trick to removing old glued tires from a wheel? I read somewhere that putting the wheel/tire in boiling water will loosen the glue and allow the tire to be easily removed. Well I tried that with two fronts, but all I succeeded in doing was distorting the wheel and had to toss them. I can't believe I need to purchase new wheels every time I replace tires…


Thanks.


Jack

[cabbynate]

Well, Jack,
You can heat up the oven to 300 degrease and turn it off, put your old wheels and tires on a cookie sheet covered with aluminum foil in the oven for 15 minutes, take them out and let them cool some and you should be able to push the tires off the rims. It will stink up the house so open some windows.

[Dingus]

I baked my tires off at 350 for 15 minutes in foil (or until my wife yelled at me for "gassing her out").

This method gets the tires off the rims, but not always the glue off the tires. For this, an overnight soak in acetone does the trick. Just like new.

A word of caution, don't use the wheels for the xxx (the ones with the multiple hex pattern) on the front of the xxx-4, they will strip fast.

In one bad day I stripped one front and one rear wheel. What a pain, but acetone is the best. Get a small flat paint tray and fill about 1/8 in. Then soak one side at a time. The baking method heats the CA until it becomes brittle. The acetone will dissolve it.

[jforkner]

Thanks for the tip guys.

So the heat in the oven doesn't warp the wheels???

Dingus,

You said acetone gets the glue off the tires---how about the wheels? I'd think the acetone might melt the plastic wheels. In my case, I want to replace the old tires with new ones on the old wheels. So saving the tires (i.e., getting the glue off them) is not a concern.


Thanks again guys.


Jack

[Dingus]

My wheels are usually warped anyway from racing.

They really don't get that soft in the oven that I noticed. The acetone will dissolve the glue from anything (including skin), but doesn't seem to hurt the wheels. I've soaked wheels/tires overnight with no probs.

For some reason, my tires last longer than the wheels. IMO, wheels are cheap enough to replace more often, but tires start to add up fast.

[jforkner]

Thanks Dingus.

I'm seem to be going through tires pretty quickly---see My Tire (http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71729&perpage=25&pagenumber=42)


Jack

[Dingus]

Make sure you get the silver compound with the Losi's or even try the Panther Tires www.panthertire.com for the rears at least.

[jforkner]

I've been using the red compound, since Losi states that works well on dry, hard, slick surfaces---which is what I have. I'll try silver next tire change.

Thanks.

[Dingus]

Red are generally better for harder surfaces, but they just don't last. Silver is the hardest Losi compound. They will last longer, but may not perform as well.

Might try pink if the silver is too hard.

[AllenJO]

Acetone won't eat the rims, the inserts, or the tires. That's how I get my old tires off the rims: I get a empty margarine container, put the entire wheel in it, fill it with Acetone, put the lid on and leave it overnight (although I have had it take 24 hours). Most of the glue will be fully dissolved; what remains will rub/peel off like rubber cement. Once done, pour the Acetone into an air-tight container until you need it again.

[jforkner]

Thanks Allen. I may try that instead of baking the wheels and stinking up the kitchen.


Jack

[wcoyote_racer]

Never thought acetone would be the trick there. Seemed to me like it would be overkill. I wonder if anyone has used Goo Gone on their rims to take off the glue. It probably wouldn't be as easy. You might have to scrub them a little with a toothbrush or something like that. I've noticed that like acetone, Goo Gone takes off most glues well.

[wcoyote_racer]

One more comment on tires. If you need to make your hard compound tires a little softer, take some Simple Green to them. I've noticed that using that stuff to clean the tires also softens them up a little. Just be careful if you use a wire brush to clean them and use the Simple Green. You may score the rubber a little.

[jforkner]

Tire selection seems to be a big factor in setting up the car, at least for me. I was having a lot of problems "spinning out," especially on tight turns, with the stock red Taper Pin tires. Following a suggestion from this forum, I switched to X2000s on the rear---I stayed with red because of the hard, slick surface of my track.

That helped a lot with the spinouts, but then the front wouldn't hold. That's when I noticed the tread on the stock fronts was pretty well gone. So I got a pair of Blockheads (again in red) for the front. Now I have so much traction in the front, the rear end (with the X2000s) often swings around on the tight turns unless I slow down quite a bit approaching the turn.

I'm sure driving technique is a big factor here. And I’m finding that my technique has to be altered depending on which tires I’m running. In time, I'll find the correct tire combination for my track. And as my driving skill improves, I'm sure the need to alter my technique so much will be eliminated.

Bottom line, though, is tires can make a huge difference in handling of the car. Thanks to all for your many tips and suggestions. They really help this old rookie.


Jack

[cabbynate]

Jack,
With the tire combo you are using now have you tried a lighter rear shock oil, say 25wt or 27.5 wt and yellow rear springs? That should give you more rear traction. Also try silver or pink blockheads next time. They will last longer with just a little less traction. Stick with reds in the rear though. Do you run the sway bar? Also are you running the stock set up? Please let me know so we can get you dialed.
Cabby

[RushRacer]

Well I'm finaly joining the ranks of proud losi xxx-4 owners....once I tried one I had to have it. Hopefully there will be enough of us to get a class going at my local track. The buggy I tried was box stock with the exception of ifmar pins all aound. It felt great at my track, a combination of loamy new england rock strewn dirt with some clay on the jumps and also some clay on one section of the track that is converted to dirt oval on saterday nites. So its a trick combination...ruts, hard dust/sand slicked dirt and some clay areas to contend with. Ifmar Pins felt good...is there a better choice? ALso new to the 4wd scene...seems that running the same tread on all 4 would yeild the most neutral handling. Think I'll learn how the buggy drives and then experiment. Anyways keep up the thread lots of good info.
:D

[cabbynate]

Well, I put on the aluminum suspension mounts on all the way around and this is how it went:
The front mounts inner pivot mounts went on no problem. I played heck trying to get the front 7.5 main pivot mount on but it went. I had to do some adjusting loosening screws to get it so it would not bind but I got it and then tightened it all up. Had to use tread lock on the screws so they don't back out.

The rear:
I got the inner rear mounts on no problems but I could not get the 1dg rear mount or the 3dg rear mount on without some bind. I had to go with the -1dg.
Maybe after the aluminum wears in some I may be able to use the other rear settings. We shall see.......

RushRacer,

Tires on this 4wd will depend on the track you are running on and how you like you car to feel and also weather or not you use a one-way. Expermenting is really the best way to find what works right for you.

[Dingus]

Cabby,

Just a thought. Try loosening the inner pivots, then mounting the main pivots, then tightening all around.

I don't have the al mounts yet, but the plastics will turn slightly when you torque the screws. On the plastic is just creates the need for shims on one side ans not the other.

Or maybe the Losi al is just not machined straight.

[mcquto]

I installed the Novak Brushless in my XXX4 and with a 7 Cell pack, I just plain can't control it. I have the stock spur and a 25T pinion and I have so much torque that I spin out in the wide sweeper and when I hit the straight I am half way down it before the wheels and the ground match up in speed. This thing really flies. My tracks 4WD class is an open class. That pretty much means anything goes! If I could just control and drive the car instead of spinning out all the time I would dominate. But unfortunately I suck as a driver so far. But watch out, I will learn to drive this sucker some day. By the way I run Losi pink X's in the rear too with silver blockheads in the front.

[cabbynate]

Dingus,
Yea, that is what I had to do. I ran the buggy around after I got off line and it went straight and nothing is binding so it seems to be OK. I won't know until I get it on the tract though. I ordered some of those front arms that where advertised here and on team Orion's web site so we will see how those fit and hold up as well. I have not had problems with the new Losi arms but I though I would give these a try. We shall see..................

[jforkner]

Cabby,

With the exception of the tires and the sway bar, my car is completely stock in setup. I have not tried different shock oil or springs. With the sway bar, I'm using the second bar from the smallest per the recommendation. I have not experimented with different bars.

Broke my first front arm the other day. Does that break me out of rookie status?


Jack

[cabbynate]

Jack,
From what you are telling me maybe you should try the smaller sway-bar and drop to 27.5 wt oil in the rear. See how that works with the tires you are using.

[Dingus]

Cabby,

I shipped your arms on Tuesday.

Let me know how they hold up with the al pivot supports. I've not had a reported break from any of the 30 or so pair I have sold.

I've had to shim every arm I've had on my car, front rear, stock and my delrin arms. Seems to depend on how I install the pivot mounts and the particular main pivot support I have in at the time. Because of the troqueing, I have a shim on one side of the front and not the other.

Seems like as soon as one person at a given track has them, everyone else buys them as well.

[cabbynate]

Dingus,
Cool, I also beefed up my front bulk head with JB weld so this thing should really hold up to some punishment. Also glad to here you had to shim the arms as with the stock arms with the aluminum parts I had to play with all the screws in the front to get everything to work without binding. A tiny bit more room would be welcomed. Did you ship US mail or UPS? Just wondering? US mail seems faster and less expensive.
Thanks for the fast service.
Cabby

[Dingus]

USPS First Class. I don't do any UPS. USPS is definitely a better deal.

[cabbynate]

Cool, I'll have them today or tomorrow. I'll let you know how they fit.

[dreamer_1uk]

Hi,

I was thinking of buying a XXX4 next month but I am concerned about how easily they seem to break when they were first released. Any news or info on weather or not the XXX4 is more durable now and is there anything I will need to buy as an upgrade straight away if I bought one?

Thanks,

Dale.

[Dingus]

There are three things to make the car quite durable.

My arms (of course) www.dpmracing.com

Team PRP Backbones

Trinity Ti Outdrive savers for the front only.


The new parts are much better, but with these three parts you can really drive the car to the limits.

[cabbynate]

Well, I got my DPM front arms for my XXX-4 and all I can say is WOW!!!!
They look like they should be on an 8th scale buggy!!!!!! I can't imagine anyone breaking these. They also look great on the buggy.
As far as instillation went, they went on easier than the stock Losi arm. I am using the Losi aluminum mounts and I had problems lining things up. With the DPP arms they went on no problems. I did not need shims and there is no play and no binding. I contribute this the higher machining tolerance DPM puts into every arm. molded parts can warp if taken out of the mold to soon after the plastic is pored.

Dingus, A job well done!!!!!! I will have to order another set soon so I have a fresh pair so in a year or so I will have a shinny new pair to put on. I will sell the old ones and then order another pair so I always have a fresh pair.
Keep up the good work!!!!!!!!!!http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/happy/xyxthumbs.gif
Cabby

[wcoyote_racer]

Awesome Dingus! Sounds like cabby likes them and then some. Do you know if you can use them for the rear as well, or are they front only? I was thinking with the extra shock mounting holes they might come into a good trick thing to have for racing.

On a completely other note. I know what Masami was racing at the World Warmups. He was using a shaft drive Yokomo. It looks like a MR4 SD SSG specifically designed for Off Road. Not a conversion. I've seen pics of it. Looks like the XXX-4's success is igniting enough interest to bring back the class and the other Manufacturers competition!! I'm itching to see some competition other than other XXX-4's to race against. What are your guy's thoughts?

[cabbynate]

wcoyote_racer,

I think your absolutely right about getting more manufactures interested in 4WD.
It really would be a much larger class if there where competition for the Losi cars. It my even end up the biggest class if AE and Yokomo get in on it.
As long as the parts support is there they would sell a ton of cars.
Especially AE.

[RushRacer]

Putting my diffs togather and wouldn't you know one of the new stlye diff nut carriers...with an aluminum insert instead of the locknut...wasn't tapped correctly and wouldn't thread onto the diff adj. screw. I had a HG aluminum diff nut carrier (all one paice) was going to use in my xxx-nt, it fits but was wondering if i needed to use thread lock on it or not. Thanks for the advice.

[cabbynate]

RushRacer,
You would think that the pressure from the beveled washers would keep everything tight but I'm not sure. You might want to give it a tiny drop of blue locktite.

[RushRacer]

Yeah was thinking better safe than sorry...will wait untill I have the diff adjusted where I want it after break in then I will give it a dab. Just finished installing the diffs and belt. Going to bed Its 1 AM...can't see straight...Thanks for the advice cabby. Oh Talked with local track owner and went with red ifmar pins in the rear and silvers up front....will see how they work. Guesse tomorrow its back to the work bench. To tired to wrench :o

[cabbynate]

RushRacer,
I always run silvers or pinks up front. Better to under steer than to over steer.
They also last longer. Silver Blockheads work good too if you ever run red X-2000 in the rear.

[cabbynate]

RushRacer,
Also let us now how the Ifmar pins work up front. I'm afraid you may get to much steering? After they where down some they would get better if you had to much steering at first.

[RushRacer]

Really hoping to have the buggy up and running next weekend....I still havn't made a motor descision yet. Test drove a friends that had a P-94 11 double...and boy did that feel good to me. It had ifmars pins all around. Only took a few laps so didn't really have much time to feel out the handling of the car with the ifmars, was very impressed with buggy. FAST, handles and takes the big double at my local track like a dream. Anyways back to wrenching, once I get a feel for the Ifmars I'll post with what thought.

[Dingus]

Thanks for your thoughts, Cabby! Glad they got there. You'll have to keep me informed about how they work with the al pivot mounts.

My guess is the shock will go back to the arms or will break the chassis near the pivot mount holes. Or, hopefully, it just won't break.

The arms are only for the front. The rears have been used for years on the xxx and are designed well and durable. The extra holes might be nice, but machining the 3rd dimension where the cvd drops down would most likely make them quite expensive or quite unprofitable. I'll have to look, but there might be enough room/material to drill more holes in the existing rear arms.

dennis

[cabbynate]

dennis,
I would have to agree with you on where the shock will be transferred to the chassis as well as long as the pivot supports don't break first. That's why I went with the aluminum mounts and braced the front bulk head with JB weld. I think your front arms Are probably the most strongest part on my car.
I'll let you know how they work out. We have a new track going in really soon so I will get to race it there. It should blue groove and is 140x85. Lots of big air jumps to put my car through the test. It should open this week or next for sure.
I can't weight!!!!!!!!!!!http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/coolman.gif

[cabbynate]

I heard there is a revised chassis or something??
Reinforced in the front and rear bulkhead? That would be sweet. I'll ask Adam Drake and find out for sure. I'll let ya no.http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/happy/xyxthumbs.gif

[cabbynate]

Drake confirmed it. There is a revised chassis. I can't weight to see it.
If someone has one and can post a picture of it that would be sweet!!!!!!

[David Wall]

Cabby,
The new chassis has two gussets at the front and rear bulkhead area, MUCH BETTER.
I broke my kit chassis at the BATTLE AT THE BEACH in FT Walton Fl in march, one of my racing partners had a new kit in the trailer so I went to get his chassis, got to building it and went to put my PRP carbon fiber reenforcements on it and noticed they wouldn't go, thats when I saw the gussetts on the bulkheads....MUCH BETTER DESIGN!!!!!!
If I can borrow a digi camera, I'll shoot you some pics!!
David Wall
BANZAI MOTORSPORTS
ADRIAN's HOBBIES
GURU R/C PRODUCTS

[cabbynate]

Thanks David,
I'd really like to see the new chassis. I want to order one but am afraid to get an old one.

[David Wall]

Cabby,
I orderd one to replace the one in the kit of my partner, and it was the new one, I think they are shipping all new ones, but you could call losi and ask for sure. I've got an extra chassis in my box, so I'll try to send you a pic of it by itself and built on the buggy, IF I can get a camera.
David Wall
BANZAI MOTORSPORTS
ADRIAN's HOBBIES
GURU R/C PRODUCTS

[Buckyaga]

also with the new chassis, Losi is not using a new part number or anything on the new one.

My track got one in the other week and we were looking at the chassis when my buddy said the new chassis should be out now. We took a look and one of them they had in stock had the new brackets front and back on the bulkhead. The part # was the exact same as the old chassis (they still had a few of the old ones in stock along with the new design).

Losi is trying to be sneaky and not tell people there is a new design out.. there is nothing on their webpage either about it :)

[Toiffel]

Hi, I have a xxx-4 and planning to run a p-94 11 double, but I wanted to know if u guys can recomend a pinion, I'm running the stock spur, I believe it's 92t?? Can anyone help?? Thanks

[RushRacer]

Here is a pic, the rear is also reinforced this way. My prp backbones also didn't work..installed them on the front of the arm...looks nice but dont know how much extra support the lower braces offer.

[cabbynate]

Thanks for the in info David and thanks for posting the pitcure RushRacer.

I just wonder if it will stop the breakage? They usually start where the front diff cover bolts to the chassis and then run all the way over and to the other side breaking off the hole front end. Did they do anything in the area of the diff cover screw holes?http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/sad/nixweiss.gif

[cabbynate]

Dave,
I was wondering where did you order you new chassis from?
Thanks,
Nate

[David Wall]

Nate,
Adrian's Hobbies got it for me, 731-352-9892, he is here in Tennessee, but he can hook you up.
David Wall
BANZAI MOTORSPORTS
ADRIAN'S HOBBIES
GURU R/C PRODUCTS

[cabbynate]

Dave,
Thanks. I talked to Horizon today and they said that if I ordered one from them it would be a revised one so I ordered it from them. Thanks anyway.
I just hope braces will help keep these chassis's together.
cabby

[Gutter Ball]

I'm using the older graphite chassis and bought PRP backbones about 3 weeks ago. Do you think the revised chassis will be better than an old PRP re-enforced one?

[cabbynate]

http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/sad/confused4.gif
One thing that is for sure is that the PRP shock tower braces are worth there wight in gold.

[David Wall]

I still run the tower braces from PRP, but I was running the bulkhead braces on my old chassis when it broke. I think the towers braces are great, but the gussets on the new chassis have to be more support than the carbon plate.....thats just my opinoin, and you know what they say about that.......;)
DAVID WALL

BANZAI MOTORSPORTS
ADRIAN'S HOBBIES
GURU R/C PRODUCTS

[David Wall]

Cabby,
Let me know how the Alum pivots work out, I have a feeling its going to break other parts of the buggy, so I'm holding off on that purchase, but if not, they are going to be in route:D
David Wall

BANZAI MOTORSPORTS
ADRIAN'S HOBBIES
GURU R/C PRODUCTS

[cabbynate]

Dave,
The aluminum front Pivot set up is sweet. The reason Losi came out with it the plastic and Graphite stuff was not strong enough. Yea, you will break an arm or something but the pivot mount's will stay intact. Add the www.DPMRacing.com arms and you got a strong front end. Especially with the new chassis. Now the rear ones are not as important. I have never broke any of these or seen any broken although I got them anyway.
(you no, Bling,Bling!!!)
Cabby

[Buckyaga]

ok Picture time.. I got a new Nokia phone and was playing with it in the pits today inbetween heats and took this pic.. it came out good so Ill post it here :)

http://www.planetdivision.com/max/xxx4.jpg

[mcquto]

Maybe someone here can make a recomendation. I am having some major problems with rear traction with my car. I have tried all kinds of tire combos with no sucess yet. Could it be settings on the car? The car grips great with the front end but its like the back is on ice. With just a half throttle acceleration the car spins out like crazy and I have the slipper so loose now that it slips about half way down the straight! The track was just redone and has a lot of loose dirt and pits but the dirt is moist (not muddy) and soft. I am running the overdrive pulley in the front but I haven't had this problem before. I have tried Losi Pink X's and Holeshot M2's on the rear and it slides around just the same.

[Dingus]

Sounds like a bad tire choice to me. Loose stuff and holeshots are not generally a good mix. Are the lugs caked after a run? Loose wet dirt usually calls for Ifmar Pins or studs or even step pins if it's really bad. The overdrive will add steering as well.

I would experiment with tires first, then maybe try the 1 deg rear hubs.

Also make sure to remove the rear sway bar if you have it on now.

This is assuming there is no mechanical failure, like binding or a bad bearing, broken plastic, etc.

[Marciano1969]

I have just made a trade for a xxx-4, is there any parts I need look out for, I have read in the thread about the front a-arms is there any parts the need speacial care or need to be upgraded.

I have seen car run at the local track and it is fast, I usually run in 1/8 scale kanai2. But seeing the car run I had to get one, any help would be appreated.

[mcquto]

As a matter of fact, I do have the rear stabilizer bar on. I have a set of brand new IFMAR pins but the last time I used them they sucked! however the track was dry and blue grooved at the time. I will try them next week and see how they do. I don't have any mechanical problems that I can find right now.

[cabbynate]

mcquto,
Take that overdrive pulley out. What rear springs & oil wt are you using? If you are running stock than try yellow springs & 25 wt oil. Let us know how it works out.
Cabby

[jforkner]

mcquto,

I have been having the exact same problem with my car since it was new. My track, similar to yours, is has loose dirt on it, but is dry most of the time---a slippery combination. I'm running a stock motor (Reedy MVP) with a 25-tooth pinion and stock setup on the suspension. I'm new to the hobby and, therefore, a rookie driver. I attribute some of the car's spinning out to my driving skills (or lack thereof).

I’ve discovered that the car's willingness to spin out is directly related to the speed I carry going into a turn. My track has a lot of 180-degree turns (nine); and unless I slow down considerably before the turn, the car's rear end will slide out. The more I drive the car, the more proficient I get, and I've developed the knack of "drifting" the car around all the 180 turns. While this works okay on my track, I'm not sure how that will work on other tracks. The thing about drifting is that I need to lead the turn in anticipation of the drift and sometimes I lead too much, too soon and hit the wall. But I'm get more proficient every time I go out.

I should mention that my track is a home-track (about 104' x 52'), so I have some control over the surface condition. I've tried sweeping the loose dirt from the track, but the hardpan underneath seems just as slippery. When the track is damp, the traction is improved slightly and the spinouts not quite as frequent. While this is an acceptable solution, I'd rather get the car setup to hold on dry dirt.

I've tried the following (in the order listed) with limited success:

1. Replaced my stock rear tires with red X2000s---seemed to help until…
2. Replaced my worn out stock fronts with red Blockheads---the Blockheads had so much traction, the rear spun out again.
3. Added the Rear Sway Bar---seemed to help a little, but still spun out.
4. Replaced the rear pink springs with yellows, and the 30wt. shock oil with 27.5wt. in the rear shocks (Cabby's suggestion)---seemed to help a little, but still spun out.
5. Swapped the recommended sway bar (next-to-smallest) with smallest, then the next-to-largest---made no noticeable difference. I'm back to the next-to-smallest bar now.
6. Moved the battery pack from the front position to the rear---the car seemed more balanced while driving, but was a little tail heavy in the air and still spun out. I've moved it back to the front.

While this may be more information than you wanted to know, I wanted to share my experience. I pretty much resolved myself to the fact that the care is just loose on a dry, slippery track, and I just need to adjust my driving accordingly. It'll be interesting when I get my new Reedy Kr 12-turn motor---God knows how much I'll slide then.


Jack

[cabbynate]

Hey Jack,
That is a lot of information and it's great!!! I have something's you may want to try in the future: Silver front tires. Are you using a one-way? If not, run the front diff a little looser than the rear diff. Try Pro-Line tires in the rear. Hole shot M3's work well. Also add the 1dg rear hubs. If you are off power in the corners try some anti-squat instead of pro-squat. Let us know if you try anything I have said.

[wcoyote_racer]

Jack you covered quite a bit there. I was wondering if you have done any diff/slipper adjustments and if you might want to try that. I've noticed that most of the racers are running 1 degree of negative camber on their setups. I do know usually the degree of the hubs (1-3 degrees) does help in stability, but it does cut some speed.
I think the new speed controls that have adjustable acceleration trims (traction control, whatever you want to call it) are a great benefit in these slick types of tracks. The best setups are the ones that allow you to keep on the throttle the whole time.
This is something that few people think of when it comes to rear traction: rear wing downforce. If the wing is too flat rather than angled a bit, the car may not be getting the downforce it needs to keep the rear hooked up. Do small increments on that adjustment since the higher the wing angle the more drag you will have. That will effect your top end. But if you have a lot of turns, top end may not be that big of a deal to lose a little.

[jforkner]

cabby & wcoyote,

Thanks for the input.

To answer some of your questions---I am not running a one-way, I do have 1 degree of camber on both fronts and rears, I have not played with the anti-squat (but will do so). My ESC is a Novak GT7 and I have played with the various throttle settings---currently it's set on Program #7 (slick tracks).

I have checked my diff and slipper many times to verify they're working, but have not adjusted either other than initial setup. Perhaps I'm confused about what function each performs and I'm sure no car tuner, but I don't understand how adjusting either would help improve rear traction.

I assume the slipper acts like a clutch on a real car and allows the motor to "slip" rather than grab the belt hard as it begins to rotate/accelerate. Similarly I assume the differentials allow the left or right tire to slip while the other has traction---like posi-traction works on GM cars.

It would seem like a loose differential in the front would make the front end push and contribute to understeer because only one tire was biting. And Losi cautions about making the slipper too loose or too tight, so I've avoided playing with it. Having said that, I just don't understand how adjusting the slipper would improve rear traction---would I want a tighter or looser clutch?

I assumed the wing on this car was for appearance. I can't imagine that there's enough airflow over it to create any significant down force. Nonetheless, I have the stock wing installed with what appears to be a high angle of attack.

Again, I appreciate all your advice and willingness to help this old rookie.


Jack

[wcoyote_racer]

About the slipper it is more for acceleration purposes. But sometimes quicker acceleration using a tighter slipper can cause some loss of control especially on slick tracks. I found that I usually kept mine within 1/2 to 1 1/4 turns of the stock setup. It seemed to allow me quick, and stable starts with very little fishtailing.

My diffs I usually don't go more than 3/4 turn out of full lock. Any more than one turn and they seemed just too loose for my taste.

[cabbynate]

Hey Jack.

I will try to answer sum of you questions. The wing really has a big effect on rear traction. I remember a thread that was about using a rear wing on a buggy or not. It got pretty heated. In the end every one agreed that a wing makes a difference. The XXX-4 wing has a lot of down force. On long straights it really helps keep the rear end down. Naturally, at slower cornering speeds it will make less of a difference.

The diff & slipper adjustment is important as well. You never want your diff to slip. Front or rear. You are right about the front diff. A looser front diff should give you a slight push. I think I rather have my cars push than fish tail.
The one-way works well on a really high bite track but I don't think it helps as much on a track with less than perfect traction. I think it pulls the car to much in the front and makes the rear end swing around. the track that I will race on tomorrow will not have perfect traction and I will start my car out with this set up. Front: 30wt oil green springs 57 pistons diff looses than the rear 42t standard gear 0dg toe in number two hole shock tower inside hole on the arms standard limiters in the shocks 1dg - camber 7.5 pivot support.

Rear: 1dg rear Trinity hubs with two washers under them rear link in A on hub and 2 on shock tower 1/2dg- camber 1dg anti squat .55 sway bar yellow springs 27.5 wt oil 566 pistons or 55's standard limiters in the shocks inside hole on rear arms and number 2 hole on the shock tower 42t standard gear.

I will start with the car's front end a little lower in the front and go with silver tapers up front and red X-2000 in the rear and battery in the front. I use an M8 radio so I will back the break's off to 90% and run the minimum on the speed control (Cyclone). I'll let you know how this works. If you have any questions about something in my set up please ask.
Cabby

[Dingus]

I think I would avoid using the slipper as a traction aid. The slipper is there primarily to protect the transmission. Too loose and it will burn the pads, too tight and it does nothing.

Diffs, especially Losi diffs, keep them tight enough not to slip. There is some minor tuning there, but I would suggest only tighter, not looser. Losi diffs have a habit of melting if they slip.

On off road cars, oil piston and springs are very important. Tough to say without driving on your track though.

Camber will make a slight difference, but mostly lean the wheels when the track had ruts that the wheels might grap and flip you.

[jforkner]

Thanks, guys, for the great input.

I think Dingus probably summed it up with, "Tough to say without driving on your track, though." Plus you haven’t observed my driving technique.

I tried setting the rear with 1-degree anti-squat and that seemed to help. I'll experiment with 3 degrees today.

Do you need to completely remove the diffs to adjust them? I assume you need to, at least, remove the CVD dogbones? Is there an easier way?

As usual, thanks a lot.


Jack

[cabbynate]

Jack,
You can adjust the diff's without removing anything. Just make sure you don't adjust it so it slips. You slide an Allen wrench into the left outdrive like they show on page 7 of your XXX-4 manual. You would hold the Allan wrench with your left hand and turn the right wheel forward or back depending if you wanted to loosen it or tighten it.