Futaba radios

[rcairplane4lfe]

Hey I was wondering which futaba radio to get. I only really need a 4 channel radio for the plane I have but I am thinking that a 4 channel radio will only go so far. Is it worth the money to get a cheap 6 channel radio or should i get a good 4 channel. The 6 channel i was looking at was the futaba 6DA. It looks great and i think i will get it. Is there any problems with it? Thanks for all your help.

[Twmaster]

You are better off to get a new 6 channel from the git go. If you shop around you can get a great deal on a 6 for not much more than a 4 channel setup.


Cheers,

Mike N
Twmaster

[rcairplane4lfe]

So should i get the 6da or should i spend some more money and get a digital one w/ lcd screen. Now that i think about it i think i will get more expensive one. Is futaba the best kind to get? I have been hearing alot about JRs but i don't know enough about them so i was planing on getting a futaba.

[Wings]

The two most important investments you can make are (1) your transmitter and (2) your charger.

That said, I recommend you get the best you can afford. I have a Hitec Flash 5X, and it didn't take me long to start using some of the computer functions. You'll love them!

Brand isn't so much of an issue the way it was some years ago. The biggest issue is that the four major brands are split as to which frequency shift they use. Airtronics and JR use positive shift. Futaba and Hitec use negative shift. (I may have those backwards...most retailers identify shifts by the brands instead of pos./neg.) Hitec and Futaba are the most common systems used in the US, or so I'm told. In personal observation, I find more options and equipment geared towards the Hitec/Futaba systems than Airtronics/JR, but your mileage may vary. Most radio receivers are available in both shifts. I also noticed that Hitec seems to offer the most bang for the buck and cater to park flyers the most. I'm very happy with them.

You won't go wrong either way!

Wings

[rcairplane4lfe]

Is there any difference in the frequency i get? I order my stuff off of an online store and can choose almost any frequency i want. do some frequencies go farther or is it all jsust a peference. Just wondering. And also what can you do with computer radios that you can't with a regular one? Thanks again

[Wings]

It's all a matter of personal opinion. They perform their duties equally well.

If you fly near at or near a club, you should ask the other flyers about frequencies. Try to get a channel that isn't used or used very little by others, or you'll find yourself waiting for the opportunity to fly. :(

Here's an idea if you have the cash: Hitec has a transmitter built for an optional crystal unit that lets the pilot choose which channel! A fellow flyer I've met with has one, and each of his planes uses a different channel receiver. That way he has a great chance of being able to fly at least one plane at any given time! I'm almost jealous...

What can computer radios do? Oh...so much. Here's a few things I know of:
1. Digital trims allow very precise adjustments and more of them, compared to manual trims with limited range and "clicks".
2. Digital mixing with more options and functions. Elevons, v-tail, rudder-aileron, throttle-elevator, etc., etc. All of them make flying some models much easier!
3. End Point Adjustment (EPA) for varying the maximum servo travel from the sticks (VERY handy!).
4. Exponential for varying how responsive the servos are to stick movement (minimal response for minor movement, increasing exponentially as stick movement increases).
5. Dual Rates so you can set a "full control" rate for use during takeoff/landing/acrobatic flight and a reduced EPA rate for use during normal flight...and change between them at the flip of a switch!
6. Model memory so you can program all those fancy and not-so-fancy functions to your heart's content and save them. Great for flying more than one plane because it saves having to re-trim and all every time you change planes.
7. If you fly at a club with one of those transmitter cages, you're far less likely to lose your settings. All it takes is another Tx catching a trim switch on a manual and you'll be re-trimming that plane AGAIN... :(
8. There's got to be a bazillion (and counting) other uses for the computer functions. Granted, you may see some of them in manual units, but the range and function of each isn't likely to compare well.

I'm sure others with more experience on both types can offer even more advice. I have a lot left to learn myself. :)

Wings

[Twmaster]

If you can afford the computer radio get it. You will love the features. My next transmitter is going to be a computerized unit. I like both Hitech and the Futaba units They both seem to be about the same quality wise. Futaba is the surviving grand daddy of the RC radio world so that does count for something in my view.

cheers,

Mike N
Twmaster

[Jeff C]

I'm thinking of the Multiplex Cockpit MM for my next computerized radio. It's the cheapest of all I've seen and has 7 channels plus 9 model memories. Doesn't have a HUGE screen but it seems to convey what's going on.

It's only $230 w/o flight pack too. Most other computer radio's I've seen START at $350 and go steeply up.

Jeff

[orcaman]

If the fellow RC'er referenced below lives in the US he is breaking the law. The FCC does not alllow you to change the channel of your radio, only the receiver crystal. Most hobby stores won't even sell the radio with interchangable crystals unless you order from overseas. Be careful! Mosts AMA sanctioned clubs would not allow you to use this type of TX.

Originally posted by Wings
It's all a matter of personal opinion. They perform their duties equally well.

If you fly near at or near a club, you should ask the other flyers about frequencies. Try to get a channel that isn't used or used very little by others, or you'll find yourself waiting for the opportunity to fly. :(

Here's an idea if you have the cash: Hitec has a transmitter built for an optional crystal unit that lets the pilot choose which channel! A fellow flyer I've met with has one, and each of his planes uses a different channel receiver. That way he has a great chance of being able to fly at least one plane at any given time! I'm almost jealous...

What can computer radios do? Oh...so much. Here's a few things I know of:
1. Digital trims allow very precise adjustments and more of them, compared to manual trims with limited range and "clicks".
2. Digital mixing with more options and functions. Elevons, v-tail, rudder-aileron, throttle-elevator, etc., etc. All of them make flying some models much easier!
3. End Point Adjustment (EPA) for varying the maximum servo travel from the sticks (VERY handy!).
4. Exponential for varying how responsive the servos are to stick movement (minimal response for minor movement, increasing exponentially as stick movement increases).
5. Dual Rates so you can set a "full control" rate for use during takeoff/landing/acrobatic flight and a reduced EPA rate for use during normal flight...and change between them at the flip of a switch!
6. Model memory so you can program all those fancy and not-so-fancy functions to your heart's content and save them. Great for flying more than one plane because it saves having to re-trim and all every time you change planes.
7. If you fly at a club with one of those transmitter cages, you're far less likely to lose your settings. All it takes is another Tx catching a trim switch on a manual and you'll be re-trimming that plane AGAIN... :(
8. There's got to be a bazillion (and counting) other uses for the computer functions. Granted, you may see some of them in manual units, but the range and function of each isn't likely to compare well.

I'm sure others with more experience on both types can offer even more advice. I have a lot left to learn myself. :)

Wings :rolleyes: The FCC does not alllow you to change the channel of your radio, only the receiver crystal.

[Jeff C]

As much as it seems very possible that it is indeed true since the FCC does strange things, it really doesn't make much sense.

Every TX I've ever seen with the exception of one 4 channel (which I believe was bundled with an ARF and had a sticker over the socket to "hide" the socketed crystal) has a user-changable crystal in an easily accessable socket.

I'm talking Futabas, JR's, Airtronics, etc... do you mean that frequency synthesizers aren't fcc-legal or _any_ TX with a socketed crystal?

The Multiplex TX I've got my eye on says "FCC legal user changable crystals" but like I said, every radio I've ever seen can change frequencies.

Jeff

[Rotten Robbie]

This statment is no longer true:

If the fellow RC'er referenced below lives in the US he is breaking the law. The FCC does not alllow you to change the channel of your radio, only the receiver crystal. Most hobby stores won't even sell the radio with interchangable crystals unless you order from overseas. Be careful! Mosts AMA sanctioned clubs would not allow you to use this type of TX.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/wncol.html

You do NOT need a commercial radio operator license to operate, repair, or maintain any of the following types of stations:


Two-way land mobile radio equipment, such as that used by police and fire departments, taxicabs and truckers, businesses and industries, ambulances and rescue squads, local, state, and federal government agencies.

Personal radio equipment used in the Citizens Band, Radio Control, and General Mobile radio services.


Auxiliary broadcast stations, such as remote pickup stations.

Domestic public fixed and mobile radio systems, such as mobile telephone systems, cellular systems, rural radio systems, point-to-point microwave systems, multipoint distribution systems, etc.

Stations that operate in the Cable Television Relay Service.

Satellite stations, both uplink and downlink of all types.


The hobby shop the I use all sell Futaba crystals in Tx/Rx pairs. And Futaba transmitters don't require re-tuning if you chane the crystal. That is why the crystal plugs in from the front. I own FOUR Futaba transmitters.

Robbie

[Wings]

The FCC issue has been debated endlessly, but let's face it: if the unit is illegal, why is it still on the open market?

I don't fully understand how the unit works, but it is entirely self-contained in a relatively large case. The user simply uses a special key to adjust two click-style dials that set the frequency channel.

It is true that changing fixed-frequency crystals in transmitters is not recommended because of the re-tuning issues. I'm sure Hitec thought of that when they designed their adjustable unit.

I personally prefer to use as few frequencies as possible. I prefer to plug in the battery, grab my Tx, and fly...without having to think about which channel. To do that, I accept the risk that I may not be able to fly any of my planes should interference exist on that one channel.

BTW, the guy with the adjustable unit does not fly at an AMA club field. There are only a handful of guys (me included) who meet where he flies.

Jeff, check out the Hitec Flash 5X unit. I got it with the glider package (three HS-81 servos and 555 Rx) for $200. Very nice radio with enough computer and options to keep me happy. I think I got it at Tower Hobbies.

I hear the Multiplex unit is pretty spiffy too... :)

Wings

[rcairplane4lfe]

Well after alot of searching and debating i havn't decided yet. thanks for all of the input guys i really do appreciate it. I have been looking at the JR radio on Horizon Hobbies. It is $199 and has abunch of nice featrures. I am now planning on getting this one. I will sell the servos from it on ebay if anybody is interested. But that is a totally different furom so i will stop there. It sounds like we have a nice little debate going on between acouple of you guys. Thanks again

[Jeff C]

Wings - the Hitec looks like it has good features but I can't help noticing that it looks like the TX dummy box included with RealFlight :)

I only have one receiver set right now so I'm not in a big rush to buy a computer radio just yet. The Flash 5x with the micro rx and servos is a great deal though - it eliminates having to buy another GWS flightpack.

On another note - why would the TX need retuning to use different crystals? I would assume that if a radio operated in 27mhz or 72 or 75mhz it would work within that 1mhz of bandwidth. What's this about retuning the radio to different crystals?

Jeff

[mcalicchia]

Hey guys,

Just to throw in my 2cents on crystal swapping. this is from the FCC web site http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/47cfr95_00.html

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5, Parts 80 to End]
[Revised as of October 1, 2000]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.222]

[Page 532-533]

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 95--PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents

Subpart C--Radio Control (R/C) Radio Service

Sec. 95.222 (R/C Rule 22) May I make any changes to my R/C station transmitter?

(a) You must not make or have anyone else make an internal
modification to your R/C transmitter.

[[Page 533]]

(b) Internal modification does not include:
(1) Repair or servicing of an R/C station transmitter (see R/C Rule
21, Sec. 95.221); or
(2) Changing plug-in modules which were certificated as part of your
R/C transmitter.
(c) You must not operate an R/C transmitter which has been modified
by anyone in any way, including modification to operate on unauthorized
frequencies or with illegal power. (See R/C Rules 9 and 10, Secs. 95.209
and 95.210.)

[48 FR 24894, June 3, 1983, as amended at 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998]

Mike

[Rotten Robbie]

Just to clarify:

Sec. 95.222 (R/C Rule 22) May I make any changes to my R/C station transmitter?

(a) You must not make or have anyone else make an internal
modification to your R/C transmitter.

Changeing the crystal is not a modification.

I know that the Futaba transmitters do not require retuninig when the cyrstal is changed.

But I also know the service operations will be happy to take you money if you do want the unit retuned.

As posted above, you can now retune the unit your self if you know how.

Robbie

[Wings]

Well, I'd love it if the Flash 5X were a few ounces lighter, but otherwise it's very comfortable. As for the simulators...are you sure you're looking at the Flash X series? The regular Flash series is not computerized. I doubt you'll see an LCD display on the RealFlight transmitter! :rolleyes:

I don't know anything about the why's or how's of retuning transmitters, but I think it has something to do with the transmitter being optimized for the crystal installed. I have no plans to change a Tx crystal without that spiffy little black box... ;)

BTW, the flight pack in the Flash 5X-G package is NOT like the GWS pack. The Hitec pack is a micro-class, best for park flyers; the GWS pack is a sub-micro-pack, best for slow flyers. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone might confuse the two.

rc: do you have a club or hobby shop close by? If you do, the next time you visit ask to just hold some radios. Find the one that is most comfortable and provides the features you want/need, and buy it. Regardless of whether you spend $200 or a whole lot more, you won't be happy if the radio isn't comfortable.

In my experience, I got lucky. I went to a club and found an Airtronics RD6000 (or something like that) that I really liked, but couldn't afford. I ended up just finding a highly-reputed bargain unit, the Hitec Flash 5X-G. It fits me very well, and I have no complaints (oh wait...is that the low battery beep I hear again?...) for what it is. Your mileage WILL vary because you aren't me. (You should feel lucky about that too...take my word for it!)

Happy flying!

Wings

[rcairplane4lfe]

wings- thanks i never really thought about how they felt and where the button, etc, were placed. i think i will go to hobbytown tommorow and check out their radios.
Thanks guys i have been learning alot about radios and changing the crystals lately.

[orcaman]

Well, it looks like I've started an unintentional controversy here regarding changing TX crystals. All of the arguments against what I have stated are as vague as my original point so I guess you should follow your conscience or the advice of fellow RC-ers that you know and trust. I was just reiterating what I have read on various mail-order web sites, in the AMA literature and heard from a knowledgable friend. Though I must agree that if it is legal it is certainly a cheaper way to be able to fly more often!
Happy Flying!

[Jeff C]

I meant that the plastic case looked like the Realflight transmitter's case if you ignore the switches and LCD panel and batteries and antenna and neckstrap loop and crystal and electronics :-D but mostly ignoring the switches and lcd panel.

When I buy a new transmitter, does it matter whether I buy a JR type or a Futaba type? I know the Futaba trainer interface is different but is there anything else different? The one thing I do know is that the servo plugs were different but aren't they universal now? Is there a difference between the way that the transmitters of a different brand communicate between a receiver of a certain brand?

Jeff

Originally posted by Wings
[B]Well, I'd love it if the Flash 5X were a few ounces lighter, but otherwise it's very comfortable. As for the simulators...are you sure you're looking at the Flash X series? The regular Flash series is not computerized. I doubt you'll see an LCD display on the RealFlight transmitter! :rolleyes:

[Rotten Robbie]

When I buy a new transmitter, does it matter whether I buy a JR type or a Futaba type? I know the Futaba trainer interface is different but is there anything else different? The one thing I do know is that the servo plugs were different but aren't they universal now? Is there a difference between the way that the transmitters of a different brand communicate between a receiver of a certain brand?

Jeff

Futaba servos and recievers have a small tab on the connectors that prevent you from pluging themin backwards. Otherwise the servos are all the same as far as the connections are concerned.

But there is a difference in transmitters. Futaba and Hitec use NEGATIVE shift. JR and AirTronics use POSATIVE shift. The only problem occurs when you buy additional recievers. Then you must by a type that matches your transmitters.

Some of the more expensive transmitters allow you to select the shift you want. But noe of the lower cost units do.

Robbie

[2NG]

I don't know anything about the why's or how's of retuning transmitters, but I think it has something to do with the transmitter being optimized for the crystal installed. I have no plans to change a TX crystal without that spiffy little black box...


I used to be that lost too, when I started. The higher radio performance that your going to get will work on any of your flying lifestyle, wither your a slowflyer, aerobatic, park, or glow. The question is which one of this flying lifestyle do you fit in? None!! Because, as you properly get accustom to the hobby, you will eventually level yourself up not down. Futuba, hitec, JR are all good radio's, it's the owner that uses them and how he fly's with his plane. I'm not gonna give you a scientific or a technical answer.

Get what you want, My Man!!!! Welcome to EZONE....


2NG:D

[2NG]

I don't know anything about the why's or how's of retuning transmitters, but I think it has something to do with the transmitter being optimized for the crystal installed. I have no plans to change a TX crystal without that spiffy little black box...


I used to be that lost too, when I started. The higher radio performance that your going to get will work on any of your flying lifestyle, wither your a slowflyer, aerobatic, park, or glow. The question is which one of this flying lifestyle do you fit in? None!! Because, as you properly get accustom to the hobby, you will eventually level yourself up not down. Futuba, hitec, JR are all good radio's, it's the owner that uses them and how he fly's with his plane. I'm not gonna give you a scientific or a technical answer. It's how you learn to do, and put things together, that make's this hobby fun.....

Get what you want, My Man!!!! Welcome to EZONE....


2NG:D

[2NG]

Wings --- "Regardless of whether you spend $200 or a whole lot more, you won't be happy if the radio isn't comfortable"


I just have to response to this:

The comfort wont be felt in your hands or wrist, the comfort is felt and seen, when you go back to work after flying you plane, when they see a big smile in your face, and the discomfort is when your wearing a neck brace, for looking up in your plane, for two hours. Two hours, cause you discovered a battery that can last that long. (hehehehe)


HUmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!:D

2NG

[Wings]

Hmm...2 hours, eh? :) The best I've managed on my Soarstar is about 15 minutes. The Graupner Tipsy I just got should get around 20-25 minutes. That's probably about my limit...

I saw a Tiger Moth setup the other day that is supposed to get 40 minutes at full throttle. Since the Moth flies just fine at eye level (and below...I've had to dodge a few of 'em), that would probably be really neat!

The idea behind a comfortable transmitter is to reduce discomfort. In my book, if it's got to hurt, it ain't gonna hurt any more than it absolutely has to! :D

Wings

[2NG]

Wings,

My M100 motor just came and 7 c - 300mAH, this setup should give the moth hella extra kick, that the stock can't give. Anyways TiggerMoth for 45min?

What's the setup?

TiggerMoth Video (http://datascape.net/plane/tigermoth/index.html)

Using stock motor and M100's (posted from EZONER's)

Get back to me if you remembered the setup.

thanks,
2NG - "If you hurt fix it, if it hurts sooooo good, HELL!!! get more of it":cool:

[Wings]

The "setup" is a stock Tiger Moth with one of those lithium ion packs on it. Something like 7.2V 800+mAh pack. Weighs only 2oz.!

I'm not positive about the 40-minutes at full throttle. Haven't seen one fly yet, and don't know if I would be patient enough to time it. :) Still, it makes sense:

8.4V ~300mAh pack = 20 minutes of flying (per flying pal who has that setup)
7.2V ~800mAh pack minus some weight = 53+ minutes of flying (per my calculator)

I'd be all over it if not for two sobering facts:
1) Not sure *I* could stand 53 minutes of air time...
2) In Georgia, calm wind to sunset < 53 minutes anyhow.

Ah well. I can dream, eh?

Wings

[2NG]

"2) In Georgia, calm wind to sunset < 53 minutes anyhow. " --- Your a lucky SOB, I am jealous.

it's been raining and windy here in CA. 15-20 mph wind.

2NG:D

[2NG]

Wings,

I saw you at R/C groups -- are you going to Toledo show?

[Wings]

I meant the winds never die here until the sun is going down. Thus, the "<". :( Wanted: perfect house near perfect job in perfect city that never has more than 5MPH wind... :)

At r/c groups? You mean E-Zone? I've been on E-Zone a lot longer than here.

I went to the show in Perry earlier this month, and that was about 3-hours away from me. SEFF in June will be even closer. I don't think I'd travel any farther than that.

If you're ever in the north georgia area, let me know. There's a group of us that meet when we can. Post a note at:
http://pub64.ezboard.com/fatlantaflyingbatteriesfrm1

Wings

[Taylorcraft]

Wanted: perfect house near perfect job in perfect city that never has more than 5MPH wind...

I'll second that! - Or; "Have planes, will travel"...

I'm actually considering a new job, hopefully in the US. So if anyone of you guys know about something or ever hear about a suitable job for a network technician/administrator (A+ tech/CNE/MCSE), please let me know!

BRG

Taylorcraft
__________________________________
Given enough power even a brick will fly.
But, the lighter the brick, the better it flies!