R/c boats

[r/c_fan2000]

There dosn't seem to be that much about r/c boats. I used to have a chep one and loved it. But I put it somewhere and frogot where it was. I want a new one. What is the best r/c boat out there?

[JoeTheShmoe]

you need to be more specific. Do you want a gas, nitro, or electric boat? (If you want a nitro one, i have an outboard i want to sell) As for the best kind of boat, it depends on what you want to do. If you want to go really really fast, you should look into an outrigger, or a tunnel hull. If you are going really fast the lake or pond has to be like glass, becuse the slightest wave or wind gust can blow these guys over. If your lake or pond has more rough water then you should probably look into a deep vee. They can still go fast, but they can also tackle waves without flipping right over.

[rcski]

Got Gas

[Serius Black]

If you want to know anything about electric boats, these guys (www.rumrunnerracing.com) really know what's going on. Dick Crowe, the guy that just set the electric world record (nearly 90mph) is a regular on the site. He's an incredible source of information, as are 90 percent of the guys on the Rum Runner site.
Electric boats aren't what they used to be, things have been changing rapidly. Better batteries and cheaper brushless motors are really speeding things up, and extending run time. Even finding other types of brushed motors has made a big impact on the racing scene.
Check out the site, even if you're not particularly interested in electrics, you may change your mind. Also, take in to consideration the area you plan to run in. Nitro and gas been all but completely banned in our area, so electrics are really the only choice.

[FrankW]

SB is so right! That Message Board is awesome. I'm too lazy to post there anymore... but maybe when I get my boats running again (just got a Tekin Marine ESC!!!) I will.

LOL, no nitro places to run in PDX, that's why I'm going to sell my 3.5 Tunnel.

-Frank

[FrankW]

Hey Jeep, my super-mod Wavemaster with it's new Tekin ESC will whoop on your Villain.

-Frank

[jacknjul]

Originally posted by rcski
Got Gas That boat is kickamus assimus!

[FrankW]

Gees jack, long time no see? It was like you were sucked into a vortex or something? Anyways, how was Sunday? Is onroad still on Saturday? What're the track days/hours? ETC.?

Okay, sorry, detracting from the thread purpose... boats rock, but you need a place to run them.

-Frank

[jacknjul]

Dude, look in the "other place".:)

And hey, Frank- we have the Columbia to run our boats! I've begun "preliminary" discussions with the Port of Washougal about using Steamboat landing Park for boat races this summer. It looks like it's going to be nothing more than a mere $250.00 deposit, but their not sure if nitro boats would violate the no motorized vehicles rule. Keep your fingers crossed!

[FrankW]

Oh cool! I'm goint to have to set up my DPI 3-point hydro! Sweet.

-Frank

[Serius Black]

I've had trouble in several locations with my nitro boats where there were "No Motorized Boats Allowed" signs, but no trouble with my electrics.
I like my electrics more and more because they tend to look a little more scale, are quieter, and I've rarely had one die out in the middle of the pond. I had to swim for my nitro boat twice last summer, and retrieve it several more times using other methods. My electric boats, short of flipping, always make it back to shore.
I'm in the process of building a Graupner Systems catamaran that will run on an 800 series Cordite motor from Fine Design. On 12 cells, it'll run between 34 and 37 mph for 6 to 8 minutes, and requires VERY little maintenance. According to Chris Fine, the only thing that needs to be done is oiling the bearing and bushing, and the motor should be good for 5 to 7 years. He says this setup can handle 18 cells with no problem, and would be pretty competetive in the NAMBA offshore class.
I've also got an old ABC Hobbies Cesa, which is one of my all time favorite boats. I'm sure you guys know which boat this is. It's the father of the Super Hawaii, which is still sold today.
The boat I've run the most lately would be my Warehouse Hobbies Force 21. This is a shallow vee hull that is better suited to fairly smooth water. On a ROAR stock motor, this thing probably runs 20 to 25 mph, and is a kick to drive. On the 11 turn mod I've got in the boat right now, it's an amazing little boat. Considering the boat only cost around $85, I'm very happy with it.

[FrankW]

SB, you have got to let me take a hand on that Graupner! I want one, but it's a bit out of my price range. A full set up would be around $500+, right? I'll probebly race either my Wavemaster (photo at bottom), or finish up my Aremican Dream and hope it can handle a little chop. I'll even bring out my S400 Gen 2 (people still keep asking for plans on that!). It's a Speed 400 powered 3-pointer. I have a pick of Gen 1.

<center><b>WaveMaster<br><img src="http://www.atlasstrength.com/Tunnel.jpg">

S400 Gen 1<br><img src="http://www.atlasstrength.com/rigger2.jpg"></center></b>

The wavemaster has the following mods:

-Totally redone driveline in the outboard (Octura hardware)
-Graupner 2:1 gearbox (some custome made pieces to adapt it)
-Octura X636 prop (going to put a X640 on it soon)
-15T Speed Gems (might get a P-94 for it... or at least the brush conversion)
-8 cells
-Lexan ride pads
-Waxed hull
-Plywood Outboard mounting base (for strength)

This thing rocks. 30 - 35 MPH with 4 minutes run time (on 2000 mah batts), with 6+ foot high roster tail. I may have to give it a Speed 700 motor Direct Drive and use 12 3000 Mah cells. Woooo.

-Frank

[Serius Black]

I strongly recommend that anyone interested in running electric boats check out the Rum Runner site first. One of the big changes that I've seen in electrics since the last time I messed around with them seriously is that 05 size car motors aren't the best choice for power anymore. Yes, you can get an 05 mod boat to run fast, but they almost always run very hot, and are not capable of decent run times.
If you want better performance, the 700 and 800 series motors are what's hot now. And for all out racing, brushless motors, and brushed large comm Pletts and Megas are killer. Hacker, Aveox, and Mega all produce competetive brushless systems, some of which are getting very affordable.
In short, if you buy a boat off the shelf at the local hobby shop, chances are you'll be purchasing a low grade, non-competetive hull. Most of the higher end manufacturers do a ton of business through the Rum Runner site, but if a shop wanted to (hint), they could approach some of these companies about selling their product.

[Serius Black]

Frank -

The Systems is being setup as follows, I've had all the stuff for months, but have'nt been motivated enough to build it yet:

Graupner Systems hull: $99

Hardware package from Fine Design: $160, includes 800 Series Cordite motor, Octura flex drive and strudder, stuffing tube, prop, flex shaft lube, and hatch tape.

Astro Flight 212 speed control: Around $100 (I think)

Novak XXL receiver: $59

Hitec high torque servo: $79 (Not sure of model number, usually stay away from Hitec)

The boat and hull is a great package, but I would have gone with an RC Hydros SC3 speed control if I didn't already have the Astro. They're smaller, less expensive, handle more power, and are completely water tight.
I've got the Tekin 432M Marine speed control in my Cesa, but you've got to be very careful not to get it wet. It came with provisions to water cool it, but will smoke if it gets any water in the case.

[FrankW]

SB, that sounds awesome. You know what I'd like next? One of those new Graupner F1 hulls with the Speed 800 Outboard. Put a Cobalt on there and fill it with 24 cells? Now you got some power!

I'm going to use my Tekin Marine (got it off ebay) in my Wavemaster (used to use a G-10 and it worked awesomely)... and for a 3 pointer (might scrap the DPI project for something bigger) I'll use an RC-Hydros ESC.

And to touch on your .05 motor post. When I had my Wavemaster set-up with a 19T running direct drive on 8 cells, I melted the endbell! But with the 2:1 reduction on the 15T motor with 8 cells. It's real powerful and it keeps pretty cool! It's interesting though, it takes a second to spool up, but one it does spool up it shoots strait out of the water and onto plane and kicks up a real nice rooster-tail... you should see it when I get it running again.

And to think, the wavemaster's stock speed is 12mph.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

i would really like a boat that is relativaly small cheap and ca handle some waves. i think one like my friends that has a direct drive and 6 cells would be fun hopefully something i can customize.



JT

[FrankW]

Wavemaster (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXS849&P=0)

All you need is a radio and 6 cell battery to get this boat running. It's $100 and while it only has a 12 mph stock speed, like mine, it can be hopped up to major speed. BTW, 35 mph on water is fast!

Dagger (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXJ757&P=0)

Deep Vee hull. It can handle chop. I've heard good things about it, and you can hop it up to a respectable speed. It's real cheep at 75. And again, all you need is a radio and battery.

Jet Arrow (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXJ757&P=0)

Deep Vee. I've heard good thigs about this too. It can be hopped up as well. It's about $90. Again, all you really need is a radio and battery. I think it looks cool.

Viper (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXS852&P=0)

Another Deep Vee. This one can be hopped up as well. $90. And all you need is a radio, glue and battery.

Now to get to the faster stuff:

American Dream and T-plus (http://www.dpileisuresports.com/prod-cat.asp?catid=1)

Both of these boats are 3-pint hydros. The American Dream is a 7-8 cell boat, while the T-plus is a two motor 12 cell (2 6-cell packs) boat. They both have stock speeds of around 20 - 25 mph, and can be exstensively hopped up, with speeds of 45+ mph. If you alread have a radio then you can get the Deluxe kit. The American Dream delux kit runs about $142. The T-plus Deluxe kit runs about $171. 3-point hyros are harder to set up than Tunnel Hulls or Deep Vees, but they are faster than either.

DPI Mono Hulls (http://www.dpileisuresports.com/prod-cat.asp?catid=2)

DPI, the makers of the American Dream also makes monos in various sizes and poer requirments. The Cracker box will be fun and fast.

Blew By You Boatworks (http://www.bbyracing.com/default.htm)

Blew By You Boatworks makes nitro and electric boats in various configurations and sizes. Check them out, they do great work.

There are many different manufacturers and hulls out there that you should check out. Have fun and be fast.

-Frank

[pudder]

:)

-mike

[repete]

I have never owned a sport boat i have always raced with my Hussle Craft 60 mono. But a friend of mine bought a Speed Vee i think or maybe it was a Jet Stream but it was pretty cool.

[pudder]

Nor do I

-mike

[bluesy]

pudder... while obviously not a speedster your boat is really neat. What is it? And what kind of runtime do you get? We've got a really cool little pond (about 1/2 acre) in the park where I go rock crawling that allows electric boats.... I'm thinking it would be perfect for a boat like yours. :cool: :cool:

PS... and it NEVER freezes over!!!! LOLOL :D

[pudder]

I don't know what it is, it isn't mine either. Well, it is sitting in my rrom though. I have never driven it either. Owner told me it was like 40 years old or something, it has never been RC though.

-mike

[bluesy]

Just got back from the hobby shop....had to buy some more Dean's plugs...... and I was talking to the "boat guy" there. There is a beautiful scale Chris Craft barrel stern runabout made of mahogany... actually its a kit. What a beauty!!!! Its got me thinking????????:cool: :cool:

[pudder]

Spend it on trucks. :D

-mike

[bluesy]

mike... I've already got an E-Maxx... and a TXT-1... and I am really not into the modding scene that much. Just bearings and such like for durability. I'm getting too old to worry about speed all that much... besides I live on an island...... there's frigging water everywhere... and very little useable dirt.... some good rocks though. I'm thinkin' ..... a boat would be a good spring/summer/fall thing...... If I could get at some good dirt then a stadium truck or such would be in the picture...

later.... bluesy:cool: :cool:

[pudder]

Ya, better take it easy with those trucks old man, don't want to have an adrenaline rush with all the excitement, might have a heart attack in your old age.

Note: none of the above was to offend. :)

-mike

[bluesy]

mike....... that's funny..... you are a true comedian...... *snort* *snicker* Don't worry about me ... I know how to handle an adrenalin rush..... I just take another slug of geritol and sit down for 10 minutes.....LOLOL:cool: :cool:

[pudder]

Er, thanks. Just don't get into airplanes, then I'll really have to call you old. :D J/k

-mike

[RS4rally1124]

okay so are boats for strict fun or do you guys actually race.
if i get into this i would want a good boat that is fast and can handle some choppy water. is deep v the only way to go?

thanks frank for the help it is much appreciated.

one more thing is there any way to make an elec into a gas?


Thanks
JT

[FrankW]

There are boat races... lots of them. For electric and gas.

Deep V or offshore Catamaran would be the way to go.


You can convert... but it'd be a whole lot easier to just buy a gas boat.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

i want to get the controles and the boat in shape and learn how to use it. elec i think would be sweet because i already have everything.


JT

[pudder]

Go electric then if you have everything. :)

-mike

[Zr2]

my twin everything boat.
twin motors, twin driveshafts, twin props, twin batteries, and twin rudders.
-matt:)

[rcski]

RS4rally Deep Vee is the only way to go in choppy water. Other hulls will handle pretty good ripples but once they start turning into little waves tunnels and hydros start having a problem. I had a few tunnel hulls, there definitley fun but I get more use out of my vee hulls.

[FrankW]

Originally posted by rcski
RS4rally Deep Vee is the only way to go in choppy water. Other hulls will handle pretty good ripples but once they start turning into little waves tunnels and hydros start having a problem. I had a few tunnel hulls, there definitley fun but I get more use out of my vee hulls.

Dude, you totally forgot about offshore Catamarans! They are ment to handle the chop. Haven't you ever seen a full-sized offshore cat run? They hit 200 MPH with major wave action. The models are designed to take waves just like a Deep Vee, but they'll turn quicker and move faster.

-Frank

[rcski]

Ya your right Frank they do a number in choppy water. but thier also 30 to 40 ft long compared to a little 26 or 36 inch long R/C

[FrankW]

a 40 inch long RC cat will still handle chop well.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

ok so the cat is the way to go how much would it cost to build a 40+ in cat. i really want one because the twin motor sounds fun.
do you run regular esc's in these boats.

i have had fun with water in the past. i made a swamp buggy like thing with two motors and 8 cells. i used tyco radios and motors. it was great until it flipped and fried the elec.

is there any way to have a dual motor gearbox like the mt's have that spins one prop and would it have any advantages.


JT

[RS4rally1124]

ok so i have a new idea, well actually 3

1 a 40" cat with duall motors

2 a miniture boat that is 14" long and runs on two micro rs4 motors

3 a micro fan boat that also runs on a micro motor. this boat would be the hardest to build but the micro motor also may be to slow so i am trying to design a 540 motor placement instead.

i need info now on esc's for boats. i don't know where to get them. frank if you have some link that would help alot.



JT

[FrankW]

www.rc-hydros.com has excelent boat ESCs that would be perfect for your Cat. But instead of two car motors, I would recommend a Speed 700 and 12 cells (2 packs) or a Speed 800 and 18 - 28 cells (3 or 4 packs) That will get your boat up and moving with the right prop.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

28cells:eek: :eek: :eek: that would be fun:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

what about the mini boats any expierience

JT

[FrankW]

whoops, sorry, I ment 24 cells.

I have a 14 inch long 3 point hydro that's powered by a speed 400 motor that goes 25 mph.

-Frank

[Serius Black]

Originally posted by RS4rally1124


what about the mini boats any expierience

JT

You really need to check out the RumRunner site. There's an answer to just about everything you've asked about. Micro boats are becoming more popular, particularly where there are smaller ponds. They're running them on speed 400 motors and small brushless setups.
If you want a nice inexpensive offshore boat, you should take a look at the new Megatech (www.megatech.com) Caribean Cruiser. They claim 25 mph right out of the box, on 12 cells with twin 550 size motors. This will dust a stock Villian, and even most of the modified ones. They say they'll have an upgrade for the boat that will bump speeds up to 34 to 38 mph, while still retaining decent run time. 25 may not seem that fast, but for a smaller electric boat, it can be a ton of fun, especially in choppy water.

[RS4rally1124]

i don't see a carribean runner but there is a carribean cruiser and a usa rc cruiser. the usa is smaller and looks totally sweet. definitally got to get me a micro boat. anyone know about fan boats. not the swamp buggies but real boats.


JT

[RS4rally1124]

i have an idea to creat a 16" long fan boat with a 540 car motor but i will need an esc that is good for 12 cells and that is relatively cheap.

also is there any way to post a drawing from the comp onto this thread.

JT

[FrankW]

I'd recommend using an ESC from www.RC-hydros.com because they are waterproof.

Sure, just save them as a .jpg file and you should have no problem posting them.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

this is the basic layout of the boat but i don't know where to put the servo or how to hook it up so that it works. ok i am trying to do this it probably won't work

[RS4rally1124]

okay i will try again

[RS4rally1124]

its not going to work oh well just have to describe it on monday. i have to go talk to you monday?

JT

[FrankW]

Sounds good, talk with you later.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

i have a ? for you guys. ive modified a Nikko toy boat to accept standard elecs but i have a couple of probs. first, i have six cells in the rear to power the singel 540 stock motor. however the rear end is very heavy and sits really low in the water. how can i raise the rear with out adding too much weight? i was thinking of setting the batteries on styrafoam blocks to raise it but im not sure if it will work. also, when i accelerate, the nose lifts up out of the water more than i would like. i was thinking of adding weight but as you can tell i dont like to add weight. is there some thing i can add besides dead weight? i saw these things for real boats that are added to the rear. they are kind of like extentions for the hull. but would that give me the desired effect? thanks in advance for the help.

[FrankW]

If you can, move the batts farther forward in the hull, that will take care of your low stern (back) and bow (front) raising problems during acceleratioin. If you want to add trim tabs to the back, you can. But before you do that, I would suggest you throw away your nikko boat and buy one of these: Traxxas Blast RTR (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXJD87**&P=0) or if you want to use your own radio gear: Great Planes Dagger (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXJ757&P=0) . Both of these are great first boats, and can be made fast. They are also very inexpensive and will perform a lot better stock than a hopped-up nikko. The Dagger is only $75 and includes everything but the radio and battery (and a couple building supplies). It's a very good deal.

If you are adement about keeping your Nikko, move the batteries forward in the hull, and try to make it balance at about 30% of the distance from the rear (transom) to the front. If you have to add weight, then do it. But you should really look into getting a real R/C boat and throw away the Nikko.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

i do not want a really expensive boat. i just want to play around. i cannot afford a boat over 50 or 60$ because i put it all in my truck. i just got this to play around with and just dont want it to sink when i drive it. i like making things work when people say it wont. that just shows that i have the determination and effort to prove them wrong. this is a toy and im not trying to make it a racing boat or anything. i like to take crappy things and turn them into something awesome. i will try to move the batts forward but i will also try the trim tabs. any idea on how long to make them? thanks frankw for the help.

[dont slow down]

oh and will the styrafoam make it more boyant or am i just dreaming?

[FrankW]

First, let's clear this up: Styrofoam will keep your boat from sinking when you get it full of water, but it won't make your boat stay higher out of the water.

On a boat like those little Nikko's, trim tabs won't do much good. Trim tabs are really only useful for fast boaters, who need the boat attitude adjusted ever so slightly to make it just a little bit faster. If you get the balance point (center of gravity - CG) right, 30% of the length from the transom, then you should have no problems with how your boat rides. Trim tabs won't help a poorly balanced boat.

I'm not saying that you can't make it work, but geting a model quality R/C boat will probebly be more fun. But it's personal tastes. Like I said in my previous post, the Great Planes Dagger is a great boat for a low price ($75), and over time you can upgrade it for better performance. Those little Nikko boats were never ment to be upgraded.

Do you have a picture of how you have your boat set up? If you do, please post it here, so I can see what you have to work with.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

i dont have pics at the moment but i might be able to get some. i will have to take a pic then have it developed, then scan it but it might take a while. definatly no pics before thurs. but definatly by friday night.

[FrankW]

Alright. No friends with a digital camera though?

-Frank

[No-Idea113]

I know this will sound soft of dumb to all of you but...

I am building a scale boat with a twin motor system, I am looking to use Graupner speed 400 motors and Octura props (left and right hand), but I can't find where to buy them!

I have looked all over the internet and can't find a good place to buy them. Can anyone direct me to a well known shop. (Tower Hobbies, Omni Models, Stormer Hobbies don't carry them).

Also If anyone could recomend some props to use, with the speed 400s and a 26-28 inch scale touring boat.

Thanks :cool:

[FrankW]

Go to your LHS and try to find them there... they are almost impossible to find on the net, so I don't even bother looking.

As for prop sizes, look at the X427 and maybe the X431 plastic.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

actually my cousin in town has a digital camera but it is packed because they are moving. however, i finished the roll of film tonight and i got the one hour photo. so i have them, i just got to get them scanned. my aunt has a scanner so if i see her tomorrow then ill ask her. i will definatly see her on sunday so the latest is now tuesday. i figured out how i can move the batterys forward so now i will have to go back over to the park and try it out again.

[FrankW]

Don't forget to see how it balances first! Also, try floating it in the bathtub to check it's attitude.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

my parents get mad at me because i fill up the bathtub too much. lol they make fun of me for going and playing with my toy boat in the bathtub. lol but its fun. but yeah ill do that first.

[RS4rally1124]

i love boats i created a fan boat that flies until it get airborn. because o fthe fan it stays airbourn way to long. it is fun lol


JT

[RacingRush]

Hey Zr2 I have that exact same boat. At least I think it is the same.

Are the props on the bottom with the rudders off of the transom? If they are it is the same boat.

I hope to get it running when I get some money. Nitro trucks are expensive to maintain.

Does any one have any suggestions on cheap motors to use?
And which speed control?

Thanx

Jason

[dont slow down]

hey frank, i gave the pics to my aunt this morning, so hopefully by tomorrow afternoon. i started makeing the necessary mods to move the batts forward so ill let you know how it works out.

[FrankW]

Sounds good, I can't wait to see them.

-Frank

[Zr2]

yup:) I have no idea how fast I got my boat up to but I have tried twin brushless setup!!!! :eek: All I can say is that the front came off the water really fast. But when I turned it would create water holes:(
l8er
-matt

[dont slow down]

ok i dont have the pics yet but hopefully by tomorrow

[dont slow down]

ok here are the pics. this is the side view

[dont slow down]

here is the view from the top. i had to make a custom motor mount so that the 540 would fit. see how far the batts are back?

[dont slow down]

here is the rear. it would be really easy to add some trim tabs back here. i would probably use some aluminum i have laying around.

[dont slow down]

.

[dont slow down]

let me know if you have any suggestions

[FrankW]

It looks like you have plenty of room to move the batts forward. Trim-tabs are unessassary, and won't help your boat (like I said before, they are only for fat boats that have already been correctly balanced). Just move your batts forward and you shouldn't have much trouble.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

yeah lots of room to move them forward. the only problem is how to keep them from moving around. the bottom of the hull is V shaped and they move toward the gears and shaft. the most i have been able to move them succesfully was only about an inch. however, do you think an inch will make much diff?

[FrankW]

I succesfully use velcro to secure batteries in place in my 35 mph boats, I think it'll work in your little vee. Move them far enoubh forward so that your boat balances at 30% of the distance from the rear to the front.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

hey i never thought of that!! ill try it. thanks

[FrankW]

No problem. Good luck.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

hey frank i just bought the new boat modeler and i saw the prop talk stuff. with the prop will i want the boat to lift out of the water or "stay wet" i think i want ti wet for controle but i don't know.

Also i ordered a hull only.( a setback on the 1/12 but i have half the money so just wait a little longer.) it is an elec something or other. the lhs guy has the same one converted to nitro. nitro sounds fun but i think elec will be easier. what are the advantages of either side. i think i will want nitro in my deep v and elec in my yello jacket. will the elec be faster.

ok one more question, are there brushless systems for boats and will a micro switch work with a brushless.

THanks

JT

[FrankW]

It really depends on the hull for the prop you want. On most hulls, you want a no-lift prop, like the Octura X-series (IE X432). On a 3-point hydro (Unlinited, Rigger, shovel nose, etc.), you can use a no-lift prop... but I've had good results using a lifting prop on my 3-points, like the Octura 1 series (IE 1432). It's alway good to experiment.

On a 3-point hydro, you want the rear of the boat completely out of the water, except for the rudder and prop. They are called "prop-riders" because when at speed, they are only touching the water with the two front sponsons and the prop in the rear. They are fast, very fast, but can also be hard to set-up properly.

Is the Yellow Jacket you're talking about the rigger hydroplane, designed by Jay Turner? Depending on how you set up each vehical, the Yellow jacket can easily be faster than a nitro v-hull.

The advantages to gas... louder, smellier (some people like that).

The advantages of Electric... cleaner, quieter.

Both are fast... Nitro boats have surpassed 100 mph. Electrics are knocking on the door of 100.

As for Burshless, Boaters use airplane brushless set-ups with excelent results. And, no... a microswitch won't work with brushless.

-Frank

[Serius Black]

Brushless systems are very popular in fast electric boating, Hacker brushless were used to set several records at this year's straight-away event, including the record for fastest electric boat in the world @ over 87 mph.
You should really check out the Rum Runner site, they've got all the answers to your questions.

[RS4rally1124]

so for a deep v that will be in moderate to nice sized chop the nitro will be better correct. i want the boat to hve torgue and good run time. the deep v is for pure fun and eventually maybe for a good 50 mph runs.

yes the yello jacket is the plans in the mag. it will be the more serious racer and speed boat. will a good gas version of the yellow jacket (like a different model but same type) will that be about the same price as elec or will it be more. i really want a fast fun boat for shallow water. will the elec work well and will have fun.


JT

[FrankW]

For good sized chop, I'd go with electric, because if you get a waterproof ESC, it can acually run underwater (provided you water proof your reciever) where as a nitro boat can not. Electrics will always have more bottom end torque than nitro.

Gas boats for racing are generally very expensive. Electircs can be as well, but they can still perform very well with okay gear (IE modified motor instead of brushless). With a 12-turn motor and 8 cells you can easily be looking at 40-45 MPH (if not faster), with most nitro boats of the same type, you will get around the same speed, maybe a little faster.... it really depends on the set up. You can invest thousands into either nitro or electric. I hopped up a Kyosho Wavemaster Tunnel hull from 12 mph to about 35 to 40, while only spending a few extra bucks (i have what I've done to it writen out somewhere if you want to know). So I'd say electric can be easily cheaper if you want speed.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

yeah the deep vee will probably be elec then. i just want to have fun with it. i may convert to nitro later or just buy the traxxas one because i have heard it is a great beginner boat.

for the hydro i will most likely run like a 12 cell with a 600 motor. i have no clue on turns but the lhs boat guy is converting to nitro and giving me basically everything except his hull and elec brushless stuff.

if the deep vee runs 12 cells and an 05 car motor will it have decent run time. i mean like somewhere around like 10 minutes.


JT

[FrankW]

If you are going to run 12 cells you need a motor rated for 12 cells. This would mean a Speed 700 motor. But cell-count/power depends on the size of the hull. For 16th scale hydros, 8 cells and a car modified motor works well. For a 12th scale you'll want 12 cells and either a speed 700, or two car motors geared to the same shaft. 12 cells on a direct drive car motor would burn it up. Remember, boats can usually pull a constant 50 to 60 amps (for 4 minutes, it's real harsh on a motor)... cars don't do that, they may pull 60 or 70 amps for a second or two while you're accelerating. I've melted endbells on my boats, which is something I've never done on my cars.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

so i should go speed 700.

what does dual motors do for the boat.

and will the yellow jacket style boat run in shallow water?


JT

[FrankW]

For 12 cells, yes you should use a speed 700. Double car motors will just provide the same power as a Speed 700, but it'll be heavier (you need a gearbox too) and a lot more maintenance. Go with the Speed 700, it's your best bet.

Yes, the YJ will run in very shallow water, you could run it in a foot or less of water, maybe 6 inches deep as the lowest. When it's up on plane, only about an inch of the boat is under the water... and that's only the rudder and turn fin.

I'm going to work on my DPI American Dream 3-point hydro tomorrow... I'll take pics when it's done. It's a real nice kit, and only like $65... I would reccomend it. The BBYRacing ( www.bbyracing.com ) Volcanic Splash would actually be perfect for you. It looks real (always a plus) and it will have about the same performance as the YJ... plus you can get combo sets with top quality hardware.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

that looks sweet. i definataly will consider. also when i said dual motors i meant spinning 2 seporate props.

i will get my hull kit this weekend. i can't wait i ordered it last fri and it comes in tommorow.:D i will build it with the boat guy and then run it on the "pond" in the back room.

with the volcano run well with a car motor and 6 cells? i am wondering if i could just run it with my old car stuff.

one more question. do hydros like the VS go as fast as the YJ with the same setup?

Thanks again

JT

[FrankW]

Spining two sperate props usually means you need a left hand (counter clockwise) and right hand (clockwise) prop... and the right hand props are few and far between. Unless you are doing a large ship model, I would suggest just one prop.

The VC should run well on only 6 cells, but it's really ment for 8. It will run almost as fast as the YJ, but it will look a lot more realistic. If you want realism and power, check the T-plus : http://www.dpileisuresports.com/prod-cat.asp?catid=1 It uses 12 cells! (2 packs in series) If you put in a speed 700 with 12 cells, you'll be looking at 40-45 mph easy (with the right prop).

I'm working on an American Dream hydro, but I'd modified it a lot.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

very nice. is there any cheaper way to get a hydro?

the hydro would strictly be for cool looks and shallow water at my cottage. i think i will invest more in my mono first.

Do you have any expireance with monos. particulaly shallow vees and what would be a good cheap setup.

JT

[RS4rally1124]

so frank will the 3point hydro fly or will it die in a little chop like not over a foot



JT

[FrankW]

Fullsized hydros have a hard time taking foot tall chop. For really fast hydros you need very smooth water, the smoother the better. You might be able to get away with an inch high chop. For anything higher than an inch, look into getting a tunnel hull. If you want someting big and powerful, Graupner has an awesome fiberglass F1 Tunnel Hull. It's huge and electric. It runs on like 16 to 20 cells. And I hear reports of 35 mph in stock trim (it could definitly go faster with a more powerful motor).

I don't have any first hand experiance with monos, but I do know how they work. A very popular racing mono is the Oval Master that you can get at www.bbyracing.com Shallow Vees are like monos in that they don't like chop. If you have chop, go with a high performance deep vee.

As for set-up, BBY sells their boat as hull only and as package deals with hardware. If you don't know what you need, get the Advanced kit. It come with everything you need, and comes with top quality hardware (fuller's hardware is hard to beat). Also it's cheaper than if you bought everything seperate, and less hassle

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

ok i already have a deep vee that is 45 in log. it is a great boat. so far i have a nice setup eccept the motor and speed controle. i went to my cottage last week and therefore wasn;t on and i guess there was some big problem and you got kicked off???????

any way i am glad you are back. the three point will be for a pond that has no chopp but i was wondering if it could handle the lake. obviousally not. i love these boats

glad to have you back


JT

[FrankW]

3 pointers are great for ponds. I'm almost finished with mine, I can't wait to start painting it, and then to run it. It's a highly modified American Dream hydro by DPI. I'm putting in a 12T Speed Gems in it (temporary probebly), along with my Tekin 432 ESC and going to start with a X430 prop and go up from there. I will be using 8 cells as well.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

so if i get a relatively small hydro it will be fine with car elec to start withi meen to get my bearings??


JT

[FrankW]

Sure, as long as you don't get it wet, you shouldn't have a problem. I used to run a Tekin G-10 in my Kyosho Wavemaster (F1 Tunnel) and put 8 cells and 50+ amps (continuously) through it with no problems at all.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

hey frank it me again with my nikko boat. i took it to the lake this weekend and it worked pretty good. there was only one problem. the motor has plenty of power but it seems that it wants to lift the nose out more than propel the boat forward. i was thinking and would it help to extend the drive shaft and prop farther back? i mean move the rudder and prop more towards the rear? would that help? i have a good pic of the prop and rudder i could post but im at school right now so when i get home.

[FrankW]

Definitly post a pic, and if you have a pic of the ride attitude, that would be helpful too. Mono's tend to ride a little nose high.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

ok here is the pic. i also learned something else. i was looking for a real r/c boat and i was looking at the GP Dagger and the GP Stinger ss because the kits are right in my price range. you know about these boats? anyway i was reading the little paragraph about the kyosho jet arrow and it said that the prop was close to vertical. this made sense and sounded exacly what i needed to do to my boat. i have all the stuff to made it direct drive using a mip cvd as the shaft and a diff outdrive for the coupler. im thinking about doing this to my nikko but havent decided yet. btw i will definatly be getting some sort of new boat. i think it was a mistake drivein that boat cause now i got the need for speed! i want to go faster. lol. anyway thanks

[RS4rally1124]

ok so the three point hydro was a good idea. Will a car micro switch and like 12 cells plus the speed 800 be good in a three point or won't that work.

hey dsd i am also in school right now. what free periods do you have, i mean time. keep working on that boat but if you get the gas one i want to see pics because i have looked into both those boats.


JT

[dont slow down]

what do you mean free periods? i am in my fifth period computer class right now and we never do anything so i come here. GP is the brand of the boat not what type of power. i dont know why they do that but the one im prolly going to get will be elec kit. its like 70-80 bucks. if i get it, it will be a while but when i do ill put pics up.

[FrankW]

DSD: Both are excelent kits. The Stinger is the larger of the two and require more power to achieve the same speeds. For a first R/C boat, I'd recommend the Dagger because it's more complete (less work to do) and can run well on only one 6-cell car battery pack.

RS4: Depends on the hull. a Speed 700 to Speed 800 would work well in a 12th scale hydro, such as the DPI T-Plus or BBY War Eagle (or the other 12 cell boats). I'd recommend the Speed 700 though. For a smaller hull like the Yellow Jacket, DPI American Dream or BBY Volcanic Spash a 8 cell set-up is good (and smaller motor).

-Frank

[FrankW]

RS4: Check this review out for the Volcanic Splash:

Volcanic Splash Review (http://www.rcboatmodeler.com/RB/reviews/volcanic_splash.asp)

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

DSD: i am in high school so when i don't have a class or i have a free period i am in the computer lab on the forums.

Frank i had seen that boat and it looks sweet maybe that would suit me better than the YJ


JT

[FrankW]

Yeah, I think it'd be better than the YJ for you... although they're eaiser to build, riggers are the hardest to set up... kinda like 12th scale cars, LOL.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

i have been busy converting my boat to direct drive and its coming together. i am useing a universal joint and some old outdrives from my diff from my 1/10 scale car. i took the outdrives to welding shop today to machine the holes for the shaft and setscrews. i have most of it done. i still need to drill holes in one more outdrive and make a new motor mount. ill post pics when ime done.

[FrankW]

Sounds like a big project you got there DSD. Good luck on it.

-Frank

[Zr2]

Has anyone ran a micro switch in a boat? I'm makin a custom lookin drag boat. I'm runnin twin 16turns on 12cells. I'm thinkin I want to run a micro switch do you think I can?
thanks
-matt

[FrankW]

Many people do... but you are probebly going to cavitate excesively and have poor acceleration from shore. All the fastest boats have ESCs (and I'm talking about 90 mph boats).

BTW. I'd run an astroflight cobalt rather than two car motors.

-Frank

[Zr2]

How much for those astro flights for 2?

-matt

[FrankW]

Well, first... you only need one. You can get all the info you need at www.astroflight.com I think the Model 342 would be a good choice, it's $169.95 but can deliver 900 Watts (over 1HP!). Perfect choice for a drag-racer.

-Frank

[Zr2]

I need 2 cause my boats a twin motor twin prop direct drive set-up.
-matt

[FrankW]

Ah, i gotcha... then you're looking at $130 each.

-Frank

[djammer]

is there any good links to find one of these ? i used to have one years ago 3.5cc inboard with exhaust throttle it was plenty fast for me doing nearly 50mph. and i now want it back or another 1 atleast. or something very similiar.

[RS4rally1124]

so frank i am thinking about making an outboard deep vee. will the dolphin II work well. it is a small hall and i think it will fly. do you know alot about outboard. is it a lot dif from inboard???


JT

[FrankW]

djammer: Sorry, I can't help you much. I know of the hull you're refering too, but I don't know where to get one.

RS4rally1124: I have a dolphin II on my wavemaster (comes stock with the kit), and it's a great little outboard if you don't mind doing a whole lotta work to it. I replaced pretty much everything but the plastic lower housing on it. I replaced the flext shaft with Octura flex shaft (flexes better, less drag), replaced the propshaft and drive-dog with a Octura 3/16 propshaft and drive dog, replaced the bushings with bearings, added a graupner 2:1 reduction gearbox on the top, and put a 15T speedgems onto it. I finished it all off with a sharpened and polished Octura Berrylium Copper X635 (or was it a X636) prop. This sucker screams and hits speeds of like 35+ mph (on 8 cells). But the stock outboard unit will give you speeds around 10 mph (I modified mine right out of the box, after reading the article of the wavemaster in RCBM). You best bet might be to make an outboard out of an old K&B outboard lower unit. I might go this route if I decide to up my wavemaster to 12 cells.

Cool, boat forums.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

hey frank, is it possible to make your own props? or is it too precise?

[FrankW]

you can make your own props, but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you needed an odd prop for a scale boat, such as a battleship or cruiseship. High performance props are put under extreme stress and I recommend you just purchase one rather than making one.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

frank i think the dolphin ii won't work then. i have a deep vee hull that i bought and i want to construct a boat. the inboard setups seem really expensive so i think i don't want to go that rought. at the lhs they have a dolphin for $60 (i don't know how good of a price that is). i thought it might be cool because of look and it was a lot cheaper than in board. if modefying the motor isn't 2 expensive i might think about it. with 6 cells i was hoping to get to about 15 mph. i figured that at those speeds i could keep it under controle but still have fun and get decent run times.


JT

[RS4rally1124]

hey frank thanks for all the help i really want to know how that yj works.


JT

[FrankW]

Well, usually it's not a good idea to take an inboard boat and turn it into an outboard boat... but it's your choice. But, you should be able to use the dolphin II and put in a stock motor or 19T motor without too much trouble... you might want to buy (or make one out of brass) a water cooling coil to put around the motor.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

i will ask the boat guys at work how to do that.

the hull isn't made for particular use with inboard or outboard. i have seen the same hull go from elec out to elec in to nitro in to now the kid is making it a nitro out. the only bad part is the weight distribution. with an outboard on it the batterie has to be slid front and back to offset the weight of the motor.


JT

[FrankW]

Well, if you can do it, then I say to go for it. I'd love to see picks of it.

-Frank

[kiceman699]

How Do you Guys Keep Your Nitro Boats Cool I want To mod. a nitro Truck To Stay Cooler In the Heat I Need Help I know They Have Like boots That Go over The Head That has colent in it I NEED HELP!!!!! Thanks alot

[RS4rally1124]

Frank- i will do it then. do you remember about how much the mods to your dolphin cost?

kice- why not try a water cooling system.


JT

[FrankW]

Including motor? I'd estimate about $75. I might go all the way sometime soon and get a K&B lower unit.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

that seems as though it would work. will a 550 motor give me any advantage?


JT

[dont slow down]

hey frank, what about the kyosho jet arrow? i know its a big boat but it has dual props. is it very complete? the stinger is discontinued, at least that is what the tower hobbies web site said. my two choices are the jet arrow and the dagger. thanks for the help.

[FrankW]

RS4: With a 550 motor, you could put in 12 cells (providing the motor is rated for 12V)... then you got real power!

DSD: I'd go with the Dagger, better set-up.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

but the jet arrow looks cooler, lol what does the dagger have that the arrow doesnt?

[RS4rally1124]

frank: it would be a max motor. probably the wild(no clue what turn). i measured the hull last night it is like a 28 in hull. the dolphin looks absolutally huge on it. this will be fun


also what is the smallest brushless motor out right now.

JT

[FrankW]

DSD: if you like the look of the Jet Arrow, then go ahead and get it. I just think the steering set-up on the Dagger is a little better.

RS4: Can't you still put 12 cells in that motor? If you can, do it for max power. But you're going to want a larger prop to use all the power you're laying down.

The smallest brushless motor I know of is the Astroflight Mighty Micro Brushless 010 Motor (http://www.astroflight.com/Brushless.html) . But it's going to be way too small for the Dolphin... although it'd do good in a microhydro that's like 12 inches long.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

i think that with a nice prop and the 550 i will have plenty of power. what prop do you suggest. i was also thinking.(i know this is scarry) on a real boat the ob motor goes up and down. any way to make a third chanell that would activate a servo to rase it?


JT

[FrankW]

On how many cells? Those 550s are ment to run on 12 cells.

That would be a lot of work... way too much for me, LOL.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

i would definatally run with 12 or maybe even 14 on a micro switch.

the lifted motor would be for cool apeal. i will definatally wait for that. but that would definataly look sweat.

also what prop. i don't know anything about prop shape and what it does.


JT

[FrankW]

Okay, with that power output, I'd say you should start with something like an Octura X440.

As for the microswitch set-up, don't do it. You should invest in a good ESC, like one from www.rc-hydros.com

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

i may go with what the kid at the lhs does. it is a three step micro switch. it looks preaty sweet and it isn'nt full on off.

i will probably just run the motor stock with 6 cells until i get this whole thing down


JT

[FrankW]

It's your choice. But it won't perform well on only 6 cells.

-Frank

[RS4rally1124]

but i haVE ALL THE EQUIPTMEANT ALREADY AND IT WILL BE EASIER TO LEARN. BY NEXT WEAKEND IT SHOULD ALMOST BE DONE AND HOPEFULLY I WILL HAVE A PIC.


JT

[FrankW]

Sounds good, tell us how it runs.

-Frank

[dont slow down]

well i hate to say it but ive changed my mind about getting a boat. ive descided to take the money i would spend on a boat, and get my truck running. it needs a new motor and i have to get the esc fixed. maybe once i do some more stuff to my truck, ill get a boat. but right now i can use a car more than a boat.

[RS4rally1124]

oh well come back around if you get the money.


JT