1/24th Scale Se5a for RFFS-100

[pease1]

OK, I've tabled the idea of doing an ultra-slow flyer with the RFFS-100 system since I think Gordon has really reached close to the ultimate with his Kolibri style plane. I've decided to do a 1/24th scale RAF Se5a WWI fighter instead.

1/24th scale ends up as 13" span 2 3/8" chord for a total wing
area of 61.75 square inches. Dave, how does this compare to the small bipe that you built?

I'm thinking of using similar construction techniques as the PunkinII, 1/16" stringers and 1/32" sheeting with lightening holes as appropriate. All struts will be CF rod, under 1mm (I think I have some .7mm stuff laying about)

I'm planning on using balsa sheet for the wings with a rib at the
center section polyhedral breaks, and another at the outter strut locations.

Any suggestions? So far all I have is my 3-views blown up to the correct size. I'll start shredding balsa soon.

Thanks for any help,
Al

[gjohnson]

Allan,
Where are you getting your three views? I know you know more about this than I do. I was thinking of doing a Fokker D-VII or maybe a triplane. If I do the triplane, could you do a Sopwith Camel with Snoopy as the pilot? Oops, doesn't the Sopwith have a round fuselage? That should be a fair handicap. You build one with a round fuse (that should slow you down) and I get to do one with a rectangular fuselage, which with my slow pace of building will still take me forever.

Gordon

[pease1]

You build the Fokker, and I'll do the Se5a, they're contemporarys. I can just see us doing combat with 1/16" wide strips of Japaneese tissue as streamers!

You might want to consider the fokker D-VII as I don't think the D-VIII will have enough squares. The Dr-I would just be too cool, but very difficult since it has a full flying rudder (hard to actuate), 3 sets of wings and as a rotary it has a very short nose which will make balancing the model hell. I have a free-flight D-VII that you can have if you'll build it. I think that it may convert well. I looked at it but decided I wanted to do the Se5a instead.

And yes, I picked the Se5a because it's slab-sided and has dihedral in scale so it looks 'right' as rudder/elevator control.

I get my 3-views from the Lamberton and Chessman book 'Fighter Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War' published by Harlyford Press. It's long since out of print and one of the prized possessions in my library. It has 1/72 scale 3-views of every single seat fighter that saw combat in WWI. E-mail me your snail-mail address and I'll send you the views for the Dr-I, D-VII and D-VIII.

Are you going to make your own actuators for your 2nd plane? What do you plan to use for a motor, prop and gearbox? I'd like to keep the actuators and motor in my micro-ifo for a while so I really want another set, but at $40 a pair, I'm tempted to homebrew some. I did some for my Canned Heat plane so I know I can do it, I just have to find the right guage wire to get the correct resistance.

Al

[gjohnson]

Phil sold me his set of actuators, since he makes his own. They should be here any day. I want to make any plane so the receiver can easily be removed, so probably means balsa sheet fuselage.

Unless I come up with anything better, it will be powered by a LV Geared M20 on two cells (or three if I'm dogfighting you :p).

I have a couple of those Bit Charger motors from Ebay coming from Hong Kong. If they look promising I might use one of them as they weigh only about a gram.

I agree about the D-VII. A triplane might be just too much for my first try at one of these.

Gordon

[pease1]

I may just disassemble the micro-IFO if I can't build my own actuators. I did order some of those gold plated magnets though.

[Dave Robelen]

Hello Al,
The specs you mention for thr 1/24 SE5 are plenty close to the Pixel. Persoinally, I would do the whole thing out of light balsa sheet. Frameworks get mighty frail at this size. The Pixel wings weighed 4.0 gr., and the complete fuse + tail 3.5 gr. without the equipment.
Good luck, Dave

[pease1]

Dave,

did you use formers inside your fuse? I'd say 1/16" would be appropriate?

Al

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Al,
Yes, the fuselage has several 1/16" formers with the last one at the rear of the cockpit.
regards, Dave

[pease1]

One last question for now, where did you route the control wires. I assume inside, but how did you handle their exit at the rear of the plane?

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Al,
The wires on my Pixel enter the fuse near the rudder hinge under the stab. The wire for the elevator control runs along the bottom surface near the hingeline and then enters the fuse. I used little spots of Ambroid to tack them in place.
Cheers, Dave

[gjohnson]

Al,
I realized this weekend that I had what I needed in the form of my Herr Fokker D-VII kit. I just reduced the plans to 13" span at Kinkos on the way to work this morning. I'm not sure if that is the same scale as what your SE-5 will be. But, it will correspond to Dave's Pixel so should be within the realm of what works. I got excited enough about this this weekend that I went ahead and ordered another DU system, which will give me three sets of their actuators, including the set on its way from Phil. Plus, I have a set of BIRDs. I should be ok for a while. Hopefully I'll begin cutting balsa tonight. Looking forward to the views from your book as I still think a Dr-1 would be great, and they will help me with some of the scale details that I can't figure out from from the Herr plans. I can't decide if I should post progress here or start another thread for the D-VII.

[pease1]

I'll get them to you ASAP, although the HERR plans reduced should be just as good.

My Se5a is 13" span, so although we may be off scale-wise, it won't be by much. If I remember correctly the Se5a had a span that was 5-6 feet longer than the D-VIII, but it will all work out in the wash. The planes will look right together. Only an ultra-fanatic like me will recognise that they're off a little. I haven't started yet, I had to get a 56" span cub off my table! It's done, so I'm ready to start.

I'm only going to have one DU system for now, since the indoor season is passing for this year. Maybe next year I'll order another.

You're a madman Gordon! Welcome to the asylum!

Here's another question....I have some water soluable PC-10 paint I'd like to use to color my plane. I have an airbrush so I can lay down a really light coat, I was thinking or watering down the paint a lot and using it sort of like a marker works, just wet the wood with a little pigment. I'll make the fuse and wing tops PC-10 and leave the wing undersides natural to approximate clear doped linnen. Do you think this would be lighter than the ink-jet printer to tissue method?

I still plan to make tissue markings and apply them with dope.

Al

[gjohnson]

Al,

I think the printed tissue will be heavier, but I've never done it. Just that the increase in weight from a VERY light coat of paint hardly increased the weight. Look on the other BB for my spitfire thread. I posted weight increases for paint as I built it.

I laid in a supply of a lot of spray can paints for the spitfire and sprayed same sized test sheets of balsa so I could weigh it before and after to guage the weight increase. I found that if I kept the can back and "dusted" it on the total increase in weight of the plane was pretty minimal. I think Dave said something equivalent for his Pixel.

I also bought Krylon "Short Cuts" from my local hardware store, which is oil based. The good thing is it comes in a lot of colors (more than the hardware store carries). It did weigh slightly more, but the colors are more realistic.

I also bought mail order Krylon "Tempra" spray paint, and liquid (in case I ever get into airbrushing, I have a cheap one but have never used it). The Tempra is water based, so there was a bit of warping, but it seemed to go away when it was dry. The color selection is no where as good in the spray can variation, and the colors tend to be really brilliant. Of course, for a red Fokker, that's probably ok.:D

A lot of this info I gleaned from Jason Nowell. I'll probably end up using short cuts and making sure I don't put it on heavy.

Don't assume the Boston Indoor season is over. A few of us may rent the Cambridge facility for a few months. The drawback is the cost per person will be higher, and participants may have to prepay for about four months or so in advance.

BTW, I keep thinking about how a DJ Aerotech road kill would do if powered with a 3-cell KP-00 and an RFFS-100. Seems to me they might fly a lot slower with a lighter motor/electronics/battery. The kits are nice.

[pease1]

Gordon,

I'll be airbrushing Poly-scale brand acrylics - it will lay down a very light coat - much lighter than any spray paint. I'll go with that under your advice.

DJ Aerotech, - great kits, but I'm not sure a KP-00 would have enough 'oomph' for such a large and draggy model.

Oh, also, you have e-mail Gordon :D

Al