SE 5 color schemes

[phuffstatler]

Were there any color schemes for the S.E. 5 (WWI) besides the olive drab (green?) with the red/white/blue tail?

I've got a Mark's Models SE 5 kit and would like to do something scale, but different, if it exists....



Thanks,

phil in austin

[Dave Robelen]

Hello Phil,
That's a good question. It seems our British friends had a different attitude toward personal color schemes. The basic color normally used was a dull brown on the fuselage and horizontal surface tops. The bottom was usually Dove grey. There were a variety of colorful noses and tails associated with specific pilots. My information comes from a very old but terrific publication called "Profile Publications". These were glossy paperback issues where each one dealt with the development and history of a specific plane. They also have a 5-view color plate, with another page showing the primary variations. These nifty little books were published in England during the 60's and 70's.
Regards, dave

[GHMBO]

Hi Phil
As Dave indicated, the Britts pretty well stuck with the Green-Brown scheme. I have seen photos of aircraft stationed in the near-east that appeared Tan or a clear dope color(b&w photos). I ran into an interesting discussion on a board that may be of interest.

There is an interesting color scheme on
an SE5a that was done after the Armistice. It was flown by
Grinnel-Milne and named "Schweinhund". The fuselage was painted red
while the wings remained PC-10 (sort of green-brown) on the upper
surfaces and CDL (Clear Doped Linen) on the undersurfaces. The book
"High in the Empty Blue - A History of No. 56 Squadron" contains a
number of color plates on the SE5 and 5a.

I hope this is of use.
Jim

[Blackhawk]

Seems I remember seeing some interesting schemes where the nose was paintes in an unusual Hawk like design with either red or blue with a white demarcation line.

[GHMBO]

I looked at some drawings by W.A.Wylam of the SE-5 and SE-5a and he indicates the following;
1. "American training SE-5a's at Kelly Field had khaki fuselage and vertical stablizer. The wings and horizontal stablizwe were all orange-yellow." From the drawings the cockades were replaced with the standard star in a circle.
2. Very early SE-5's were all silver with khaki wing struts and landing gear.
3. Pre 1916,Upper and lowerwing surfaces and horizontal stablizer were buff color. Fuselage was khaki.
4. 1916 and later, the upper surfaces of the wings and horizontal stablizer were khaki and their lower surfacer were buff. Fuselage was kahaki.

It might be interesting to see if the U.S.Airforce museum has a color photo online.
Jim

[phuffstatler]

Thanks to all so far for all the great info. More research to do now...

I've got the Wylam drawings for it, and that text you quoted in my Scale Drawings book. What is 'buff' as a color? Just the doped cloth?

I'll check the USAF online. Maybe they have something...

Keeping on looking....


phil in austin

[Dave Robelen]

Hello Phuffstarter,
The buff color shown in most color plates is much like a very light cream. It may have been plain doped fabric, but the usual sources show it as opaque on the SE5A as compared to translucent on some earlier planes or early models of the SE5. That is a point to bear in mind. There were two distinct variations of this machine. The original SE5, and the SE5A. It was the A model that was built in quantity and has the most color options. The configuration was the same, but there were a number of detail changes which included the engine and prop. Good luck on the hunting. One of the most challenging things for me is to match color plates or photos with published 3-views. The SE5A is a fine example with a number of discrepancies in the beautiful Wylam drawings.
Some of the best sources are back issues of the British Aeromodeller magazine. They would run a feature on an individual aircraft each month.

[cometkid]

The most unusual S.E.5 (predecessor of the S.E. 5-A) scheme is documented by Edwin Hamilton in his book, "Complete Model Aircraft Manual" Harcourt, Brace and Co., 1933. The author was an RAF pilot and apparently had the freedom to change the paint scheme.

The Black and White photos in the book show a neat personal emblem as a wrapped ham (short for Hamilton) combined with those letters on the fuselage aft of the cockpit. He details everything on the model which was solid scale.

On page 425-426 "This model, being a true replica of the author's War S.E.5, has been given his insignia, paint job, numbers, etc. The entire fuselage and upper and lower wings are painted a bright red. The fin is blue, while the rudder is white and red....On both sides of the fuselage are the letters and numbers F. 56 indicating the 56th Fighting Squadron...Just under the Ham and between the bars of the H appears the small letters "A" and "M", spelling the word "Ham". This was the author's nickname during the War..."

All of this print description (of which I excerpted the most important sections above) will satisfy a scale judge. And the black and white photos in the book certainly prove it existed. It's a really rare book and I'm glad to share this with the group.