RTR RC Cars, I just don't understand it.....

[DR_RC_LUVA]

What are your guys thoughts on all the RTR cars that are clogging the RC industry over the last couple years? I just don't get it. If you would have told me 5 years ago that a reputable high class racing company like Associated or Losi would be releasing a RTR car, I would have laughed in your face. Its one thing for Traxxas to do it. I was bummed when HPI did it, but I was downright floored when AE and Losi followed suit. I remember back in the day when you had to build your own RC Car, ah, those were the days. I think its just as much, if not more fun to build them than it is to drive them. Not to mention that its kind of crucial to do so to understand the mechanics of your model and the knowledge you'll gain from building you can use for repair. Its sad when i'm in my local hobby shop and some dude comes in all confused with his RTR car in his hands because he doesn't know how to change a dogbone. The hobby shop gladly takes his car and $$$ to fix it. I just mumble quietly to myself "If you had only built it yourself....."
Yes, one could argue that RTR brings newcomers on to the scene who are intimidated by lots of parts and assembly, but there are cars at Radio Shack for those types of people. Why buy a high end RC Car that requires ALOT of maintenance if your not even going to be able to do it yourself because you don't understand the mechanics of it? Sorry fellas, I just had to vent.....Please give me input wether you agree or dissagree because i'm curious of other people's views.....thanks

[pudder]

I agree with you, but yet I have a side that disagrees. I think companies got into it because the market was demanding it, and RTR vehicles are great for those who aren't really good at building stuff on their own, but then the other side like you have is well those people who can't manage on their own shouldnt be buying anything besides Radio Shack stuff. Well not to sound cruel, but this hobby is one that is for people who have mechanical skills, like real car tuning. It is mechanicly demanding. Sure though, there are those people who really want to get into it but do not have so much money to buy a new kit, radio, esc, and all that, so the RTR stuff is good for them. In ways, ya I think that Losi and AE would look better off staying with their repuataion to being about perfromance and racing, but that was not my decision. Well it is my choice now that I am good at this stuff, and have been from the start, I will probably just be buying racetrucks and such, putting a new kit together is just part of the fun too. :)

-mike

[TSR6]

I was with you 99% untill I started working at my LHS. I felt the same way, but now my view has changed slightly. RTR's are great for the hobby, you can go to your LHS, and litterally drive it out the door if you want. Sure, adds a whole new learning curve, eg: taking apart a car you have never touched a screwdriver to before. That removes the learning curve of how to build it, and adds the learning curve of taking it apart and remembering where everything goes.

For some people, RTR's are great. For the most part, these the the "mechanically inclined" people. These are the people who took apart Tyco cars as kids, put them back together and having them still work. Kits are great for anyone. If you are good with tools, you learn the car. If you are not good with tools, you learn the car and the tools. You learn where everything goes and how to repair it.

With RTR's, you basically get an exploded view, and hopefully LHS support. I personally beleive that RTR's would not thrive like they do without the support of the LHS's. We have people come in all the time that need help putting something back on, or how to tune, or little things that no mailorder shop can do. When we are not busy, we even help with the repairs right in the person's face, so hopefully they learn something. We generally try to have them do it themselves, and "check in" on them every couple minutes and see how they are doing.

RTR's are fun out of the box, and now with Losi and AE moving in, you can get an almost race ready truck, with the out of the box fun. Look at the Losi Bench built truck. That is a full blown race truck, put together professionally by Losi team drivers, and put together with an awesome engine, and an awesome radio, but also for a hard pricetag of around $540. The new Losi RTR ( not benchbuilt ) is also a good truck, that can be upgraded to XXX-NT specs. It's great to start with, "learn the ropes" so to speak in your backyard, then upgrade slowly as you get track time.

It all depends on the person, and what they are planning on doing that makes the RTR good or bad. Most RTR's are great trucks, and get many new people involved.

-Troy

[Need2Speed]

I agree with both of you guys on the plus and minus side.......It has found its niche in our hobby and is here to stay whether the serious rcers like it or not.

[Possumbot]

RTR'S are a way for newcomers 2 get 2 know there car at a slower pace. I got into this hobby at 8, and i would've been out soon if i opened up a box full of little pieces. RTR's plant the seed for kits, cuz when u've had the best of the basic car, u start upgrading,and u learn how the car works at ur own pace. I also think rtr's allow for the fun seed 2 b planted. If ur first car was put together completely wrong, and everytime u went 2 drive it something else broke becuz u had no idea what u were doing, u would quit soon, but with rtr, its fun, instant fun almost. I think the highend companies(AE, Losi, HPI) making rtr's is a good thing. B4 they did, it was only basic, beginner cars being made into rtrs,but now that the racers are being made into rtr's, it makes that transition from backyard basher 2 racer quicker and easier. JMBO

[FastRustler05]

I just got a rtr and it is great, it is my first nitro truck. I can take the whole truck apart and have it back together in 2 hours, it is not hard. I sometimes have trouble with the engine, but that is where my dad comes in at, he is awsome with engines and full size cars. He has tought me a lot and i can almost now make my own tune up jobs to make my truck run better.
-Tyler

[CK9887]

Any young kid getting into the hobby is going to want a rtr.
When i got into the hobby traxxas and duratrax were the only big rtr companies, so those were the only companies i even considered buying from. Now being experienced i would buy either. No matter how mechanically skilled you are if your young and a beginner then you will want something to drive right away.
Also if your just getting in the hobby and your young then you wont really know if your skilled enough to put a kit together.

Also a rtr is a great gift for a beginner who wants an r/c.
Think about it, the parents know their kid wants an r/c, so they go to the hobby shop, i doubt the worker at the hobby shop is going to say a kit is better.

[Conman]

I agree, when I got my truck, back in 2nd grade, it was an AE RC10T. My dad put it together for me. He also fixed it for me when I had a problem. After a few years I decided that I should know how this thing works. So, I found and dusted off the manual and disassembled and reassembled it. now when I have to fix it I hnow how and don't even need to use the manual. So, I think that it is very important to build it yourself. I don't think that I will ever buy and RTR, except for a T-Maxx or E-Maxx, just because of that. Besides the radio and engines and electronics and all bottom of the lint BS, Except for the new Losi RTR which actuall has a decent radio. Just my position and opinion.

[dan7532]

RTRs bring money into the hobby.

[Jamedup]

Here's my opinion,
I was a maintanance worker for a town and I had to fix everything from trucks to water mains. When I got into this hobby I didn't care if I ever picked up a wrench again and tried my damnest not to. That's where the RTR came into play.
I bought a Nitro Rustler, loc-tited the main screws and threw some locknuts on it. Before I learned to drive, I was hitting anything that wasn't suspended in air and that truck would take it like a trooper.
Granted, there wasn't any race tracks around and only one (so called) hobby shop within a hours drive so I had no clue about the racing world.

I've since found a race track a little over an hours drive and I would never concider racing a RTR there, but if it weren't for RTR, I doubt I'd have attempted this hobby.

Well, yes I would have but I'd been a grouchy ole fart about it!!!

Some people would rather pay someone to fix their stuff then do it themselves. Some people are just like that. Who am I to down someone like that since if I wasn't so deep into racing and dirt poor, I'd be the same way. ;)

[SixVi6]

I personally don't mind RTR's at all. In fact I remember when I bought my T-maxx a long while back I was actually really excited and could not wait because here was an RC that I just bought, not a radio shack toy but a real rc, that would be up and running in a few minutes of prep time! It was unheard of to me.

[Madmann135]

my first NITRO R/C was the T-Maxx.

I got the T-Maxx used and rebuilt it. that tooked about 7 days to finish. I was board so when I got the money I put some upgrade parts in to make it faster.

My little brother's first nitro the duratraxoverdrive and it was new. When We put it together His father was suprised that he knew more about the truck than his father thought he knew.

we had the RTR up and running in about 5 minutes.
and that includes oiling and installing the sir filter and opening the bags and so on.


A kit is for someone who can handle puting the stuff together but a RTR is great for someone who can take stuff apart and figure out how things work.

RTR beginer
kit experienced

[Kdd]

Well, I'm 35 and I personally prefer RTR's.... I'm VERY mechanically inclined (I have a wood working shop in my garage and sometimes build furniture from my own thoughts (no plans))... and they are museum quality I've been told.. I used to teach Chuan Fa (kung FU) before I had kids and I'm an Electrical Engineer who sits in front of this laptop all day and I just dont have (or want ) to spend the time 'building' cars... If I can, I'll buy RTR's... I like to race/bash and they suit me fine. My free time is minimal now so I prefer to run them, not build them....

I like to 'fix' them when they need to be 'touched' up, but to completely build them (I've done 4, RC10GT and OFNA OB4 and 2 Micro RS4's), what a Pain in the Arse......

My .02...

[timberwolf211]

The RTR's reflect our world. Now a days time is very limited and very valuable so the people who want to run a RC usually don't have the time to buid.And the RTR's have focused on more FUN time than wrench time. Traxxas had this thought when they came into the scene and stuck with it and look at where they are. Then the other comapnies realized that the RTR thing is not bad for the hobby but a way to attract more people to the hobby.I for one have never built a kit but I have broken my RC's enough to learn how they work and how they go back together.Would I build a kit yes but I like the idea of having it already built and ready to go. Me personally I will break it sometime or want to do a upgrade and will figure out how to build it from the expolded view.

[offroader]

I don't have the time or desire to built a kit. I'm not a mechanic or anything but I know if I wanted to figure it out I would have no problem doing so...the thing is, I don't want to. I work all day and when I come home I want to spend most of my time with my wife and kids. Sunday's are my day for getting my truck out to the new offroad track we have here. I just don't have the spare time to put into building a kit, should that stop me from a hobby that I enjoy? I don't think so. I'll take a RTR everytime!

[DerekB]

Why does Chevy sell anything but a C5 Vette? It's called branding. You give the people some ladder to follow and they will. Look at all the loyalty to Traxxas. Everybody loves their first kit and with the average age sinking down to about 12 of their first "real" RC car RTR's make a lot of sense. Now you can have a Losi as your first truck without all the problem you would have if you were 12 and putting it together for the first time. If you were frustrated building and driving your first car you would have been on to another hobby fast.


Now you can climb the RC Car ladder up to the top of the line truck....

[darnok86]

i bought an rs4 rtr last year beginning of this year i completely took it apart installed a two speed tuned header pipe, and turn buckles i think that building a kit would have been better but i don't know how much i wuld have liked it then

[ZoomZoom]

That's quite an 'elitist' attitude you have there DR.

I am not ashamed to say that I bought an RTR kit. I did so to get up and running ASAP seeing that this was my first venture into RC. I wanted to see if RC cars would be for me or not. I wasn't about to plop down some serious jack for the car and all the required accessories, build it and realize that it's really not really that thrilling. I bought an OFNA OB4 International RTR based on some good reviews (RC Car Action) and praise from my LHS on the car. I drove it and I am now hooked. Since then I have completely disassembled my pre-built car, rebuilt my shocks w/ Assoc. purple springs & 50wt. oil, and my ball-diffs...successfully I might add, bought a mild mod...and added a couple hop-ups (replaced a broken rear gear box in the process). Now I'm in the market for better batteries, Tx, ESC, motors, tires/wheels, charger, etc., as I plan to race at the local tracks.

The RTR kit did its job. It was a relatively inexpensive way to get a taste of the hobby. If I did not like it, then I would only be out $250. The other way I would be out significantly more. RTR's are also a good solution for people who are not intending to race competitively and just wanna stir up the neighborhood.

I say chill out and realize that RTR's are a benifit to the hobby. The LHS gets business and many more people are introduced to RC. Which also increases demand for accessories and hop-ups which is again good for the LHS. This also benifits you too by possible lower prices due to increased volume. They might be able to lower the price of a CE Turbo35 if they were to sell enough of them...we can only hope.

So quite looking down you nose at the newbies and give them some help and encouragement. Be an ambassador to the hobby you love so much. And thanks for such a warm reception into RC. :p

...my 2 cents.

[AEAddict]

I agree...

I've always liked the kits more.... I feel that you only deserve to drive something of this caliber AFTER you understand how it works.... just like "soccer moms and their SUV's" if you will... there's only an "elite group" of us that actually understand how that stuff works, and I feel thats the way it needs to be. If everyone was smart enough to figure out how to rebuild an engine, than there'd be no more technicians or mechanics. Kind of the same thing. I'm not TOTALLY against RTR's... but I feel that they are "taking over" the industry.... because the people (it seems) that buy them are the ones that constantly bug you about stuff at the track when you're trying to get your own junk on the track in time for the next heat. heh.

sorry.. heh.. had a long day.

[Conman]

Well put AEAddict.

[WheelNut]

I think the hobby need some RTR, but not to many, you have to keep the kits! I would much rather build a an E-maxx, that would appela that truck to me more. But I dont have that option. I think that if you CANT build a RC vehicles at least moderately well then you cant handle runnig these cars. My brother can barely build a kit and he cant do maintnence on his T-maxx hardly usually he wants me to do it. Which I think is wrong. And takes away the hobby part slightly. My first truck was a NXT kit, and I learnt more from bulding and runnnign that truck for one week, than my brother had learnt from buying a RTR duratrax and runnign it for 4 months......:o

sorry about the bad spelling........

[hpiguy]

I think RTRs are good for the hobby overall.

If all it was, was kits and kits only as before the prices would be higher for everything and less people would be in the hobby. With RTRs the companies can sell more product faster and show the savings to the kit consumer.

RTR doesn't mean the buyer is lazy or not mechanical. That's a prejudice statement that reflects more of a conceited attitude than anything else.

Oh and BTW, the second post in this thread is from Pudder saying he doesn't really like RTR cars. But he owns a Duratrax Evader!!!!!!!!!! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[extremetmaxxer]

you know, the rtr market has two sides, one for begginers and one for experts. i think that its great for begginers well soem wiht some mechanical skill. but sometimes its a bad idea. like a kid buying a t-maxx or a rtr .21 or something like that. that has only driven a radio shack car a few times.well unless he knows what he is getting into and is prepared to work.

after working at a hobby shop for a while this became kind of an annoince. especially when they had no idea what to do and refused to read.

but now there is the other hand. for us "experts" the rtrs come as something good (in my mind) they come rtr so you can run em outta the box. we know what to do to them when it breaks and heck if were smart we can put em back together pretty well.

i like buying a rtr mostly cause im lazy and i like getting the servos and radio system. then you can sell the system and put it towards soem servos and lets be honest not alot of us really need those pro high end machines right?

common think about it who likes doing work? i enjoy building but you know it fun to take it outta the box and run it that night.

[pudder]

Originally posted by hpiguy
Oh and BTW, the second post in this thread is from Pudder saying he doesn't really like RTR cars. But he owns a Duratrax Evader!!!!!!!!!! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Hmmm, have to choose me eh? I didn't say that I didn't like RTR's. Yes, I did get an RTR Evader. Well I got it mainly for the value, and it came with good stuff already, I just didn't have the money for a better truck, if so I would have gotten the T3 forsure. I took it home, and not too long after, I had hopups, better motor, tires, better radio, ect... so don't say that I don't like them.

They are good for the value ect. Now that I review my post, I do see where you could have gotten that from, but you didn't have to turn it around on me.

If this hobby was flooded with all RTR's, it would be more "toylike" in my opinion. They are good for those w/o all the money/skill/time ect...

That was what I am saying, there is more good to bad and I didn't intend to "insult you" as ou sounded.

-mike

[hpiguy]

Pudder:

I see where you are coming from now.

The reason I buy RTRs is the exact same one as extremeTmaxxer listed. For the convenience.

I got the Evader because I wanted a good truck but not the hassle of building another kit. After the dozens of kits I built I prefer to have RTRs.

I do the same with my planes now. After dozens of plane kits, I'm sick of building and just want to fly. ARFs are perfect in that aspect, and there's not a kit made that can't be bought as an ARF if you really look. And nobody can tell the difference unless they saw me buy the model yesterday and see me flying it today. :D

[Dan T.]

I agree with KDD.
I am a retired auto tech after 20 years of wrenching on cars the last thing I want to do is wrench on my own full size cars. I now find my self paying other techs to work on my own full size cars.
Just for the reason that I HATE CARS.

The way I look at it now is the time I'm wasting working on my real cars no matter what it is I'm upset, cause I could be enjoying my RC cars.

After 10 years in the hobby I too thought that RTR's would never last. But guess what the KEY WORD is here.....TIME. I enoy building them and racing them.

So go figure this out I just got 2 Rustler kits.
Just picked up my Terra Crusher.
And ordered a XXT-NT RTR.

Now guess what all I need .....T I M E!!!!

C-ya and have fun while your young,
cause as you get older one runs out of TIME!!!!

[Need2Speed]

My only true complaint about RTR kits are they are never truly RTR..I mean you end up having to dissasemble parts to threadlock them and check to make sure everythings tight.......true this isnt much to do for any of us who have built kits but for a beginner with an RTR I think it is misleading and may cause some frustration.........They dont know any better until someone who has been in the hobby for a while can give them a hand........I know these are really minor things but that is the only thing I see wrong with RTRs in general

[spenzalii]

Guys, Guys, Guys. It's a symbiotic relationship here. One truely needs the other.
Check this senario. Mom wants to buy the son an R/C. Maybe because he's technically inclined, maybe he needs a hobby besided his PS2, maybe because the boy saw one and thinks its just 'cool!'. So she goes to the shop. This by itself is a good thing, having steered away from a toyish product from ToysRUs or the 'Shack.
'What should I get?' she asked the pimply faced salesman.
There are two disadvantages to the kit she will note. Firstm you need other stuff to complete it: esc, radio set, motor (we'll just focus on electric for now). Having to get all the extra stuff makes it seem more expensive, even though it may average out in the end. It's the perceived cost thats a hangup. Then we think about little Timmy. He wasn't all that great with his Lego collection, and his Capsela set is sitting in the closet collecting dust. With all these little screws, will he be able to put it together correctly before he gets bored with it? Suddenly the RTR makes a whole lot of sense.
So the sale is made. If Timmy likes the car as is, fine.If he breaks something, he can get a stock part, or he can upgrade it if he wants something fancier in time. He'll slowly learn how it works, what can be fixed or replaced with better material and optioned for higher cool factor. When he wants another one, Mom may opt for the kit, having proved that Timmy can and will stick with this and may have more fun putting it together himself.
So lay off the RTRs. There are quite a few great ones out there that people can either bash with or race, given skill and time. It will open up doors to those who wouldn't get into the hobby otherwise. Like ZoomZoom, I bought my OB4 a year ago, took it apart, learned how it worked, and bought a kit next time out. I don't know if I would have got the same gratification if I had to build the first time out. I wanted to shoot now, ask questions later. That's what the RTR does.
JMHO and my .02 :D :p :D

[TyroneShoelaces]

I remember back when I was like 12, I got my first RC for christmas. It was a Tamiya Hornet kit, Airtronics avenger radio, 1500 Sanyo pack and a Panda quick charger. That's about the only christmas present I can even remember from my childhood.
The car took me like 3 days to build, but it was the best 3 days I'd ever had! I remember the shocks alone took me like 3 hours to build, couldn't believe they actually had oil in them. :eek:

Anyway, by the time I was all finished, plugging that battery in and seeing just how fast the lil hornet (THAT I BUILT) could fly was the most rewarding experience I'd ever had. I must have ran that thing through 1000 packs and never broke a single part. I lost one rear spring on the driveway and had my mom run over it with her car, so I had to improvise and repair that shock with the spring from a ballpoint pen. That old hornet's in a box in my storage closet in perfect running order. The radio and servo's are over 10 years old and still work great!

I can't imagine getting an RTR would have had nearly the same impact on me. Since then I've only purchased kits, building them is half the fun!

[pudder]

Glad to get the point through. :)

-mike

[Burnout]

I dislike RTR kits. But that is me. I do understand how RTR can be a great thing to other people, and thats good for them. I have purchased many used cars and trucks, and believe me there a bunch of people out there that can't build a kit right! Screws in the wrong place, godawful soldering jobs, cracks from over-tigtening a screw, exposed wires, wires wrapped with duct tape and even masking tape!, lexan bodies sprayed with krylon, antennas tied together with motor, esc, and servo wires, shocks that leak, shocks shafts that been scratched from holding it with pliers with no protection, paperclips used as steering rods, excessive use of superglue to fix cracks, superglue to hold on servos and recievers, and including other stuff like missing parts or parts in the wrong places. One time I got this Bolink and the kid wrapped the worn out foams with electrical tape and try to pass it off as tires. I see those things and more, some people just don't deserve to build a kit!

[HauntedMyst]

I understand the need for RTR's and think they are wonderful for the hobby, but Tyrone's pride of buildint is something that RTR'ers will never experience. My first car was used, and mostly build, but I had to finish it. Every car since then (other then trades, and even most of those) have had to be built.

In RC, there is nothing likt the pride of seeing something you built with your own 2 hands. It makes you want to stand out side in a thunder storm, hand held high and yell in a deep voice "Look what I have wrought!"

I bought a Maxx a week ago, I still haven't run it. Instead I keep working on my TC3. Not building it really took a lot of the fun out of it for me.

[Racin Rev]

My first 2 cars were rtr's. I bought them because that is what my lhs stocked at the time. I think that I tore them completely apart several times and upgraded one considerably. My next 2 cars were kits. Building was a very satisfying (zenlike) experience. rtr's serve a need. What I don't like about them is that they almost always are not in compliance with the rules of the major sanctioning bodies. .15 or .18 engines are just not going to fly at the track for anything but sportsman class racing, and that only where they are accommodating. I would rather pay the extra $10 - 20 to get a reasonable but legal .12 and a 2 speed on my on-road car. (Maybe a decent header/ pipe too! I know that it doesn't matter for bashers, but it would be good to not be limited by equipment to bashing.

[pudder]

By the way, my first RC was a Kyosho Outrage ST II. It came 90% assembled, I had to build the shocks, fill them, put them on, paint body, do the tires, install the radio and MSC, ect... it was very fun for me.

-mike

[JimmyMac]

Okay my turn... uhhhh well RTR's are great for people starting out. It gets the familiar with the hobby without spending too much. If they don't like it, they toss it. If they get hooked, then the next thing they may buy is a Kit and build it. It's also great to have RTR's to expand the hobby. Sure you can buy a Radio Shack RC car. But it will not reach the performance of a TC3 RTR or a T3 RTR kit. Lets get these people into the hobby and do what's most important first... learn to drive. After that, they can tinker and rebuild. Now for a pure hobbist, they'll stick their tongues out at RTR kits because it doesn't give them the challenge that they need to put together a kit. Plus it doesn't let them decide on what parts to put in it. Well for them, thats why they sell Kits and Factory Team Kits or Special Editions. Why bottleneck the industry? Selfishness? Can't get let go of the past when you had to build everything yourself? :p Me personally, I love to build the kits. But I would in a heart beat recommend an RTR kit to any newbie. I want them in the hobby, I don't want to scare them off. Kinda like RTF airplane kits. Some people just don't have the patience to cut and glue a balsa plane together. They just want to fly. Well again, let the pure hobbist build, while the weekend flyer fly. :) My 2¢

Jimmy Mac

[dexters]

They should of thought of the idea to have RTR's a decade ago. Just think how big the hobby would be now. RTR's are only going to make the hobby bigger which is good, competition which means lower prices overall for beginners, etc,etc. It makes me so mad when people complain about why there shouldn't be RTR's. Give me a break. Why ask why and go get you some Bud Light!! wooohoooo :D hehehehe

[CTS1]

What is wrong with RTRs ? My first truck was a Traxxas Stampede RTR with ESC. Ya know what ? It is still my only RC and guess what else ? Below is a list of vehicles that i am thinkin' bout, there RTR.

1) XXX-NT RTR
2) T-Maxx RTR
3) Pirate 10 Monster RTR
4) Overdrive ST RTR
5) HPI RS4 MT RTR

I like running my trucks, not getting the truck and spending a deal of time building it , why bash what makes another happy ?:confused: :( :p

[chucksolo]

For those of you who like to build (don't have anything better to do) then kudos. I however detest building. I do like to hopup though and have hopped up ALL my RTR vehicles, from my T-Maxx to my TC3 RTR with NO problems whatsoever. The garbage about having to build the vehicle so you can fix it is a crock. You might as well get used to it guys, RTRs are here to stay AND you will see them dominate the market in a few years if not a few months from now. I wouldn't be surprised if Mugen, X-ray, Schumacher and other highend companies don't jump on the band wagon with their premium stuff coming out in RTR. It all translates to MONEY. RTR is making this hobby take off like a rocket ship. Heck, I know a place you can get the OFNA OB-4 International RTR electric sedan for just $159.00!!! Graphite and all (it's backordered though).

[dan7532]

Not aimed at anyone in particular: don't knock it (building a kit) until you try it. I do not mean bashing building, but some people (not all) say that they would not like building a kit or maintaining it (like maintaining a car) and in fact, have never even tried it. Everyone should give it a try sometime without the attitude of "I hate this", and maybe some people (who haven't built kits already) will find that building and working on stuff is not so bad. Don’t tell yourself that you dislike it.

[Racin Rev]

if I could afford it i would build a kit, sell it, and build another. I really enjoy the concentration fix that comes with sitting down at the table and carefully making all the parts come together. I don't have a lot of time to build but it is satisfying.

[plinko]

building an rc car or rc anything is an enjoyment on its own. If I could afford it I would build these cars for the pleasure of building them and setting them up. But this is only one half of the hobby, the other half is just using them which I love doing as well, but some people just want to drive and have fun which I have nothing against. Maybe its cuz I know that anyone one of my cars would blow theirs out of the water because of how much time i've spent setting up my cars :D

[Alla]

I have nothing agains't RTR's but I would much rather get a kit and build it the way I wan't with all the hop up's already in place. I think that buying a RTR and then upgrading it because you wan't it to be better is just a waste of time. This is why I wish there was a E/T-maxx kit. Also, many people who are new to rc buy a RTR and think that this is as good as it gets. I know that many people quit because of this.

[chucksolo]

One of the problems I see on these boards is the contempt that "builders" have with people who happen to like RTR cars/trucks. For some reason, the "builders" think they have this air of superiority simpley because they built their car/truck. So what. I am capable, and sometimes build network infrastructure at work, but I don't look down at people who hire others to build their network for them. I can understand the satisfaction one might get from building their kit, like I get satisfaction from say, writing a song on my guitar. However, you "builders" out there need to get off your high horse and just accept RTR as here to stay. I have nothing against building kits. I just DON'T WANT TO. So many people out there espouse how complicated these kits are. Sorry, this ain't rocket science. I do however, like to paint my own bodies. Nothing against pre-painted bodies, I just like to come up with my own unique scheme. Finally, YOU DON'T NEED TO BUILD THE CAR IN ORDER TO FIX OR HOP IT UP. Let's bury that myth right now. Most if not all RTR kits come with building instructions anyway,or at least exploded views of the car/truck. Those should be sufficient even for the most mechanically challenged.

[chucksolo]

BTW-The only thing I have against MOST RTR cars is their lack of a first rate radio.

[MrB1973]

I have to agree with Chucksolo on this one.

I very nearly skipped the whole RC thing becuase the guy running my LHS was one of the Builders. As soon as I said RTR he said 'go to Radio Shack, or Toys'r'Us'. I'm sorry, but that is the WRONG attitude. Luckily I stuck with it and bought a couple of RC's off e-bay. However, it certainly made me wonder how many other people have gotten turned off of RC by this guy. He certainly would be considered an ambassador for the hobby, yet he is running a hobby shop.
All in all, I went RTR (or semi RTR depening on your slant) becuase I live in an apartment and I don't have the facilities (yet) to handle building a kit. Someday I will build a kit, but I wanted the ability to see if I liked even RUNNING an RC without spending a couple weeks assembling (and yes, it would take me a couple of weeks, my 3 month old daughter sees to that :D ).

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I think we should all just get along. I think the Builders need to be more open minded and give some consideration to why people choose RTR, and the RTR people have to give some appreciation to the Builders for their skills. At this point, I don't think either group is going anywhere fast in terms of heading the way of the dinosaur, so we can either get along, or stand on opposite drivers stands throwing crystals at each other.....:confused:

Seems like an easy choice to me.

[timberwolf211]

I think this thing with the RTR's is going crazy. There is nothing wrong with them. Now a days the RTR's can compete with the kit's. Wait isn't the kit and the RTR the same thing? Part wise? So what is the problem? Or is it that the builders think they are no longer a elite bunch that can compete against the new guy with the RTR? Just because it is a RTR does not mean it is a hobby class rc. What it does mean that more and more people are going to get into the hobby which is better for all of us. Not all of you but most of you remember the big RC boom in the 80's? Well that faded and hobby shops and tracks closed down. But now you are starting to see a boom again and tracks come back to life. Why is this? Trucks like the T-Maxx and RTR's. People no longer have to build to have a hobby class RC and now there is more of a intrest cause the pain staking part is no longer there. There is nothing wrong with building a kit but I am more into funtime with my RC. When I do break it I will take it apart and see how it works then.Besides every on eventually breaks their RC and that is when they learn the most fixing it. But I don't beleive the part about if you build when it breaks you will know how to fix it. And the reason I say this cause some people never built the kit right from the start. Just look on e-bay I am sure you find some half-built kits cause the person did not know what they were doing or lost intrest.

[greenmuse]

i grew up in the 80's and rtr was unheard of.i like the fact that if my tl01 for some weird reason fell apart ,i would be able to rebuild it within a hour.building a kit gives a little bit more confidence when it comes time to crack open the transmission.

on the flip side i see the apeal of rtr,im a father myself,my daughter is 2 yrs old who is a tornado with hands.and it would be nice to have a new rc without the 3 nights it took me to build my erally because of all the distractions.but to me its a pride thing,i gotta build my own.which is my major gripe for the maxx trucks,traxxas should at least offer a kit version of the truck.

[format13]

my opinion is (and remember im only 14 :D )that people who want to bash around the neighborhood with fellow friends won't want to spend the weekend in the garage building. me and my buds all got rtrs and just took them out, broke em in and had a hayday.

[BuggyBoy]

i think RTR is a waste. even if i did buy a RTR it would be torn down and rebuilt. they never do anything rite. something is ALWAYS wrong with em when they come put together from the factory.

[HauntedMyst]

How can RTR be a waste when the majority of cars sold today are RTR? The vast majority of RTR's sold at my LHS are to first timers. A good percentage of those that get TC's actually come out to race at least once. I would estimate that last year, roughly 90% of the cars racing nitro were RTR's. How is that a waste?

[BuggyBoy]

id just rather put one together myself so i know its done rite.. and its put together tite the way i want it.

i race 1/8th buggies so its probably alot diff then 1/10th.
most RTR 1/8th buggies are slow.

[pudder]

Originally posted by BuggyBoy
i think RTR is a waste. even if i did buy a RTR it would be torn down and rebuilt. they never do anything rite. something is ALWAYS wrong with em when they come put together from the factory.

Very nice work at your unthought opinion there. Did you ever think that YOU could have been the problem. Most of the cars being put out are good quality. If you don't like RTR, then shuttup and don't buy them!

-mike

[BuggyBoy]

ROFL pudder you dont remember me do you.. little 14 year old punk.

you use to come on MSN EVERYDAY asking me 200 questions how to do this and that and so on.

thats nice you talk to me like that now.


i have 1 car worth all of yours put together.. i know what im doing little boy....

[format13]

what does your car being worth more than all of ours have to do with anything? we dont give a flying leap about your car-old man! im 14 too and if you talk like that too "kids" than i dont want to know how you act in "real" life. and i agree with pudder, why do you have to complain about rtrs, why cant you ignore them and move on to more important things in life! and, your name is buggyBOY, why would you name yourself buggy BOY? when your making fun of "little boys".

[BuggyBoy]

god you 14 year olds cant read can you? i was refering to pudder as a 14 year old punk !! because i added him to ignore because he has no respect !

im not a old man.. im 18.

they asked for opinion on RTRs so i said it. then you little kids start talking bad about me ?? wtfs the deal w/ that why dont you talk crap to the others who said they dont like RTRS to!!

[format13]

old man

[BuggyBoy]

err yeah sure..

same ol 14 year olds showing how imature they can be.

[format13]

and show us a picture of this million dollar car of yours

[BuggyBoy]

its not done yet... but heres a pic i just took quick.

[BuggyBoy]

some of my bodies
http://imagesite.ihelix.net:85/Jason/bodies.jpg

[pudder]

Do you see me always acting immature? I would say no, prettymuch all of the time on this board I act realistic. What does your "great fancy car" have anything to do with my skill, ect? Maaybe some of us actually have spending limits to what we buy. Basicly, you just started this whole arguement.

Someone always haas to mess things up.

Another question, what does THIS have anything to do from what I did before?

-mike

[ProjectTwin]

RTRs are awesome.

I once saw it said on this board that RTRs are "the I don't know jack about RCs but still want to have fun with everyone else" vehicles.

Is there something wrong with that?

We all have to get our start somewhere.

Back when I was a kid, I wanted a clod...bad. When I convinced my parents to go the the LHS theywere shocked at the prices. 250+ for the kit, then the batteries, then a radio...and since I was young and they didn't think I could build it...the LHS had a build fee of $75-$100+, depending on the shop. If the Clod had been offered in an RTR form (which is cheaper than buying the parts and paying $100 to have it built), I would've had a Clod a loooong time ago.

Jason

[BuggyBoy]

Originally posted by pudder
Do you see me always acting immature? I would say no, prettymuch all of the time on this board I act realistic. What does your "great fancy car" have anything to do with my skill, ect? Maaybe some of us actually have spending limits to what we buy. Basicly, you just started this whole arguement.

Someone always haas to mess things up.

Another question, what does THIS have anything to do from what I did before?

-mike
uhh your the one who started it...

somebody asks for opinions i give mine and you start complaining.

dont even say i started it.

you think your cool w/ your 3000 plus posts. remember when you first started here and use to msg me every 15m inutes saying oo another 50 posts !! and all you ever did was post the most pointless stuff..

[BuggyBoy]

and i dont even think beginners should buy RTR if they wana get into the sport they should build there own cars and learn about them.

Buying a RTR dont teach you nothing if you wana start driving. after it breaks you wont have a clue what to do with it. rather then buying one in 1000 peices and putting it together for a week learning your car.

[ProjectTwin]

Originally posted by BuggyBoy
and i dont even think beginners should buy RTR if they wana get into the sport they should build there own cars and learn about them.

Buying a RTR dont teach you nothing if you wana start driving. after it breaks you wont have a clue what to do with it. rather then buying one in 1000 peices and putting it together for a week learning your car.

By the same method of reasoning, we could say if you don't know how to use a shift key, or completely type out words in english, or even throw in an apostrophe in your contractions, that you shouldn't be posting on bulletin boards.

Not that we would...just saying...we could. :p

Jason

[Mason Copeland]

RTR's are cool, kits are cool.

[ag2001]

buggy boy..people shouldnt brag about how much their things are worth, so wut u did is showing us how immature YOU are.

[pudder]

The reason (has already been said) why some people get into RC with an RTR could be because:

A-They don't have the money to get a kit.
B-They don't have the skill to build one.
C-They don't know if they are going to continue in the hobby.

Things like that.

And besides, what does "who has the beter stuff' have aanything to do with this thread?

-mike

[BuggyBoy]

pudder you dont respect the people that have helped you in the past do you.. cause you really earnt respecting me i helped you alot just end this conversation please...


if you dont have any skill to build a R/C car you shouldnt be driving one.

[pudder]

Well, it is too bad that this arguement happened, but I do usually respect people that helped me.

Part of me agrees that the people who can't build shouldn't be in this hobby, but some people are just in it for the fun. Not all people take this as a big competition, and well, they don't have to.

-mike

[ProjectTwin]

Originally posted by pudder
Not all people take this as a big competition, and well, they don't have to.

-mike

Well said!

Jason

[BuggyBoy]

yeah true.

[HauntedMyst]

Originally posted by BuggyBoy
id just rather put one together myself so i know its done rite.. and its put together tite the way i want it.

i race 1/8th buggies so its probably alot diff then 1/10th.
most RTR 1/8th buggies are slow.

You still didn't explain why it's a waste. All you did was explain why don't like them. Your not liking them doesn't make them a waste.

[BuggyBoy]

they are a waste because you dont learn anything about them by buying built ones.

[ag2001]

well thats KINDA, this is a little extreme but....

a house.... if you dont have the skill to build one, y live in one, you know somthing wrongs gonna happen to it sooner or later. most people just want to live in a house without having to build it themselves, thats kinda like with rc. with a house, you dont know if ur gonna live in it forever, as you dont know if your gonna be in the hobby forever...

see the analagy??

[ProjectTwin]

Originally posted by BuggyBoy
if you dont have any skill to build a R/C car you shouldnt be driving one.

Let's continue with this great :rolleyes: method of reasoning.

I could also say (in your own sort of way) that if you don't place first in the A-Mains that you don't need an expensive 1/8 scale buggy. An RTR, such as the GS or OFNA buggies might be just what you need. No sense in spending all that money if you're not going to win, right?

Then come 1:1 scale cars. How many have you built? We buy these cars RTR or "Turn-key", yet many people take them to the dealer for service...are they somehow unworthy of owning the car? No.

It's obvious by your responses that you have an "I'm better than you" attitude. That's ok, like you said, you're 18. In your mind right now, you are right. One day your opinions will change. Trust me.


Jason

[Kueller]

Originally posted by BuggyBoy
if you dont have any skill to build a R/C car you shouldnt be driving one.
By the same reasoning if you don't have the skill to build your own real car you should not be driving one. You'll just have to go pay someone to fix it for you when something breaks, and real mechanics charge a lot more than hobby shops. So I expect you either built your own real car or you do not drive, correct? If not I suggest you be quiet.

[BuggyBoy]

sorry bud a house is a little different from a hobby !!


now i remember why i left this newb forum.

[Stern]

Originally posted by TyroneShoelaces
I remember back when I was like 12, I got my first RC for christmas. It was a Tamiya Hornet kit, Airtronics avenger radio, 1500 Sanyo pack and a Panda quick charger. That's about the only christmas present I can even remember from my childhood.
The car took me like 3 days to build, but it was the best 3 days I'd ever had! I remember the shocks alone took me like 3 hours to build, couldn't believe they actually had oil in them. :eek:

Anyway, by the time I was all finished, plugging that battery in and seeing just how fast the lil hornet (THAT I BUILT) could fly was the most rewarding experience I'd ever had. I must have ran that thing through 1000 packs and never broke a single part. I lost one rear spring on the driveway and had my mom run over it with her car, so I had to improvise and repair that shock with the spring from a ballpoint pen. That old hornet's in a box in my storage closet in perfect running order. The radio and servo's are over 10 years old and still work great!

I can't imagine getting an RTR would have had nearly the same impact on me. Since then I've only purchased kits, building them is half the fun!

OMG Tyrone, you like totally summed up all my feelings about R/C Car kits. I don't dislike RTR's but I don't ever see myself buying one. Hey if it gets more ppl into the hobby the better right?

I entered this Hobby in 1986. I remember my first car. An AE RC-10 Buggy. I remember popping the box open and seeing all those parts and thinking "Oh man this is gunna be great!!" The feeling of accomplishment I got was overwhelming on my first run out. What i've noticed is after building enough Kits and racing long enough you can "TELL" whats wrong with a setup by just driving it. You'll know what to adjust. I'm a very mechanically incliened person myself. I love wrenching on Real or R/C cars. Have since I was 12 (I'm alomst 34 now). So when I'm at the track and I see the Novice struggling with his new RTR I'm usually always one of the first to lend the young pup a hand while instructing them at the same time. Especially if there Mom is a hotty. :) heheh j/k

Anyway, I can see why AE and Losi finally started kicking out RTR's, looking at the sales of RTR's told them "You better get the hell on the band wagon with RTR's or loose out on some sweet sales opportunities!" Besides, I'm not 100% certin but I think more spare parts are sold to RTR owners than Kit owners... unless your a real bad driver of a kit car. :p

[ag2001]

well its exactly the same idea, i think kueller summed it up better.

[Need2Speed]

::::Yawn:::::
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
this debate is still going on?
Well let me throw some more pennies in the pot
RTR cars have found thier niche in our hobby I seriously doubt they are going anywhere anytime soon..........they serve a purpose just as do the "kit" cars..........I personally prefer kits to RTR..........but thats just me I dont go to the track feeling better about myself becuase I built my own car and joe schmoe didnt........when joe comes over and asks me for help do I turn him away becuase I believe he should have bought a kit so he cold work on his vehicle.............No I help him becuase that is what our hobby is about!!!!!!!!! Well RTR cars help get people involved in our hobby!

[chucksolo]

Well, people like BuggyBoy can keep complaining about the proliferation of RTR kits, but I would predict that in the VERY near future, say a couple of years, the "U-Build it Kit" is gonna be RARE! Why? Simple,........... MONEY. These companies are in the industry to make MONEY. Traxxas proved the RTR business model works. Why do you think that ALL the companies now have RTR kits. They know a money machine when they see it. Heck , I even know some diehard kit builders who bought the XXX-NT Sport trucks RTR because they were simply TIRED of building kits. At 18, building a 1/8th scale buggy is probably a BIG accomplishment for BuggyBoy, at 40 it becomes a pain in the butt. Tell me, five years ago, would you think AE, Losi, and HPI would build RTR kits? Probably not, now they see the success Traxxas has had and want a piece of the pie. Learn something while building an R/C car? Maybe a little mechanical stuff. How about putting down your R/C car and enrolling in college BuggyBoy and REALLY learn something. This is just a hobby, it ain't rocket science pal.

[ZoomZoom]

Let's just say some people like RTR's, some people don't, and some people are indifferent. There's a place for everyone in this hobby. The manufacturers know it, the hobby shops know it and we should just accept it and enjoy it in our own ways.

[HauntedMyst]

Originally posted by BuggyBoy
they are a waste because you dont learn anything about them by buying built ones.

You don't paint your own bodies, does that mean you should just run a clear one or run without one? By your lack of logic, that should be the case. You paid someone to paint those bodies for you, yet you are showing them off with pride. Don't you think people who buy RTR's have the same pride with their cars? My dad had an autobody shope for 30 years, I had time to learn everything from bumper to bumper about cars. I didn't. I'd rather pay someone else to fix my car. Some people don't want to learn about their R/C cars. They want to shove the battery packs (that they charged with their push button charger) and run their car till it breaks, then high tail it over to the LHS and get it fixed. Their dollars grow the hobby as much as yours do, just in a different way.

Originally posted by BuggyBoy
now i remember why i left this newb forum.

I'll hold the door open for you to leave again. So far all you've shown is ignorance about the scope of the hobby and the people involved with it. As much as I love building kits, they are kits. It doesn't take a genius to put them together. It's basically turning some screws from premarked bags into parts from premarked bags using exploded view diagrams and detailed text as your gude. Despite your inflated sense of accomplishment in building them, and your ability to look down on those that don't, as chuck said, there is no rocket science involved. Let us all know when you have designed, milled, tapped, drilled and CNC'd your own car. Then maybe you will have reason to look down on people. Until then, you are just a putz who puts together parts.

[ZoomZoom]

Originally posted by HauntedMyst


...you are just a putz who puts together parts.

LMAO HauntedMyst!!!!. :D

[Racin Rev]

while unlike chuck I like to build kits (at 45). it is understandable that others don't. I don't see the demise of the kit as long as the RTR's are inferior to the kits (the plastic on the Losi isn't as good and the associated uses bushings. I understand that this is to offset the labor cost to build them and I agree with the philosophy behind it). as long as the rtr's are scaled down in quality and don't have legal engines/motors on them they aren't for me. I don't need the expensive paperweight of a .15 engine. But for those who don't care, don't want to build, or don't plan to race. if they want to go rtr, why not?

[Burnout]

A lot has changed. Does anyone here even remember how this hobby was? How you buy a kit and build it? Since when has this hobby was suppose to make everyone get into it? Sometimes people just don't know on how this hobby works. Some people think its cheap, some think they can handle it, and some think it is something for them. But guess what, this hobby isn't for everyone. And if some people can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen! Don't get me wrong, its cool having RTR's to introduce people into this hobby. Making it easy for them and not scaring them off. But when you have the majority of manufacturers with nothing but RTR kits and have majority of the people getting them, then what? Then there will be a bunch of people that will forget what this hobby was even about. Many won't experience how to build a kit, how to find mistakes and correcting it yourself, how to learn more about your car and its parts, even a better understanding on how to follow directions, and of course there is no better feeling than to run your vehicle after you finish building it. Even showing it off to your friends and family, letting them know how the hobby works, what the hobby is about, getting compliments on what you went through and what you did, its all positive and it feels good. This is one of the things why I love this hobby. Now it seems like manufacturers are rushing out all these RTR kits and trying to get more people in this hobby as soon as possible. Of course they are trying to make a buck, but doing this can make people even forget what this hobby was about. I like the way the hobby is going, but if there is nothing but RTR kits and nitro (now thats anotehr thing, everyone is getting nitro!) out there, it will make people forget what this hobby is about. I am glad that I started this hobby before the RTR craze, or else I would've not experience other greatnesses about this hobby. With RTR and making people run their cars as soon as possible isn't what this hobby is all about (that is what some people think nowadays). Keep the hobby the way it was and the way it was suppose to be, and please don't over do it with RTR.

[chucksolo]

Well Burnout, at least you don't come off like one of those "better than thou" sorts, BUT, the RTR buyer is just as legitimate in this HOBBY as anyone else. The GOAL of any hobby is to get more people into it BECAUSE.........this stimulates innovation and brings better products to market at a CHEAPER price. Sheesh, some of you guys come off like this industry (hobby) was introduced just for your benefit. Rev, I think as time goes on, you are gonna see the line between build it kits and RTR kits completely disappear from a quality of parts stand point. Yes, the AE RC10GT RTR did skimp on quite a few things, but look at the Team Built models, they are almost the same as the kits. The XXX-NT Sport RTR is REALLY an indication of the trend, with it's JR high quality radio and all. Same with the GS Storm buggy. I think that the new motto is gonna be: If you build it RTR, they will come. Get used to it, it's gonna happen. I predict Serpent and Mugen (they have one RTR that I know of) will follow suit pretty soon.

[Stern]

Chuck makes an excellent point about the proliferation of RTR's in the Market.

Lets look at this from another POV. I've been into PC's since they were just a hobby. Then along comes the Internet. 3 Major things happened when the Internet went Public (remember it used to only be usable by Educational and Government agencies),
1.) The growth in the PC industry sky rocketed because the DEMAND went up.
2.) Prices fell at an alarming rate, but it's made up for in Quantity sold.
3.) Technologie behind PC's grew faster than anyone expected proving the "It's just a Fad." nay sayers wrong.

Now apply that to RTR's. Since more and more Mfr's are offering RTR Kits the R/C industry is seeing higher sales. We the customers see more variety and ALOT more newcommers to the hobby in the last 5 years. The demand is there. Given enough time we will start to see prices start to fall as the market gets even more saturated with competing products (Price Wars). Sanyo and Panasonic are making out like bandits right now, and I hear tell that Rayovac is going to be putting a Sub-C into the market. That right there friends is a sign that says "Market Growth and expansion."

If I look at where this hobby was 10 years ago and compare it today it's gotten HUGE. And will continue to get bigger. Look at how more often R/C is covered on TV these Days. 10 years ago R/C on TV was mostly un-heard of.

So in closing all I have to say is RTR's are a good thing for our Hobby. The more newcommers we get the lower prices get. It's a win win situation.

[dan7532]

(This post is not directed to any particular person, just people who complain about RTRs) Why does anybody care what other people drive? It is like full size cars; if you don't like trucks, don't buy one! If you don't like cars, don't buy one! If you don't like something, don't buy it! If you do like it, buy it! What do you care if the person next to you built their rc car or not? You do your own thing and somebody else does his or her own thing, that doesn't mean that you have to whine about it. Are you going to start whining about the full size cars that other people drive too? Do you think that doing so will change anything?

[pudder]

Everyone in here has had good points, well with the exception of one member. And thanks to all those who backed me up with their opinions, even if you didn't mean to, it helped me out.

They can put out the upgraded trucks from box, but as long as I am in the hobby, I hope that build it yourself kits will stick around.

Where on earth did BuggyBoy go?:D

-mike

[Burnout]

I would like to apologize if I was being rude to some of you. I also don't mean to exaggerate this. What I want to see is a nice fine balance for all people. Let there be RTR's for the people that want it, just please do not let RTR's take over the industry. You wake up one day to find nothing but unbuilt kits at your LHS, nothing seems wrong right? Of course not because that is how the hobby is. Then you wake up to find nothing but built kits on the shelves, then what? How would you feel? Now that is strange because the hobby wasn't even run by RTR's in the first place. Why would you want a hobby to change its direction (like I said, different hobbies for different people, if you can't take it then find another hobby). Yeah you may not like it but understand what its about. Understand how the whole hobby and it works and not just expect things to go your own way. I'm not talking about money and how many people join the hobby, its about keeping the hobby real, keeping it the way it suppose to be. When people start flooding with their RTR products they are killing the way this hobby works. This is what I see and maybe others will agree with me. I hope you understand my point. For someone like me that has been into the hobby for years and years then suddenly see this kind of change, of course I would be like "***!". Thats why RTR people should realize why some of us may go in an uproar when people have been into this hobby for a long time and seeing the hobby going into this kind of direction. Anyways, lets keep the tradition of how this hobby is but also don't ignore the newcomers or people that hate to build kits. Now you start flooding the market for newcomers and people that hate to build, see now how a person can get angry when their hobby goes in that kind of drastic direction?

[Need2Speed]

You mean this industry isnt made just for me?????????:mad: :mad: :mad:

LOL

Change in any aspect of life can be hard.........even in our recreations........RTRs are here to stay.........yet agreeing with burnout I dont want to wake up one morning and have RTRs as my only choice!

[pudder]

Exactly what I meant. Though I have only been in the hobby for not even 3 years, I love to take time away when I could be doing nothing, (or homework, still in that catagory) to work on my car...

-mike

[format13]

oh yeah, happy b-day Buggy Boy:D :p (not)

[rcnitropro1]

my first car was a losi xlt, in parts in a box with other junk and i got that together with no help from others or instructions. i am very proud of my self for that. radio shack cars can actually be modified with time and the ability to do hack work. if you have ever heard of the aftershock, it is a radio shack truck and you can slap in top quality parts in it like nothing. i fit in a speed gems motor and a novak explorer II esc in it and it ran better, and the cool thing was that the motor bolted on like a dream. the stock motor was a 540. the car i have now is all hack work. a kyosho alpha pureten gp rally. i built an electric starter for it, using the old 540 from the aftershock, the old spur gear from the losi (screwed onto the cord wheel and one-way bearing), and made wheel wells out of sheet metal on the rear. i have yet to do the front. most of the hack i do on my cars require me to make parts from existing parts. i lost the spur gear mount for the kyosho, so i made a new one using a part from the servo saver set that i got for my friend's evader that he didn't need and a bushing and a screw and a lot of zap-a-gap.

i like both(rtr and kits), but i think newcomers should at least build their first car themselves, so they can learn how to fix and maintain their vehicles. they both usually cost the same in the end if you do the math, except in rare cases like the evader. duratrax has a great warranty for their cars and trucks, they will replace parts covered under stress-tech with no questions. although the evader has some bad problems with a few select parts such as the servo horn, front body mount, and gears.

well, just get the car you want i guess.

[rcnitropro1]

Originally posted by Stern
The more newcommers we get the lower prices get. It's a win win situation.

plus the more people we can whomp on in races!!!!

[Jamedup]

Originally posted by Burnout
<snip>
You wake up one day to find nothing but unbuilt kits at your LHS, nothing seems wrong right? Of course not because that is how the hobby is. Then you wake up to find nothing but built kits on the shelves, then what? How would you feel? Now that is strange because the hobby wasn't even run by RTR's in the first place. Why would you want a hobby to change its direction (like I said, different hobbies for different people, if you can't take it then find another hobby). Yeah you may not like it but understand what its about. Understand how the whole hobby and it works and not just expect things to go your own way. I'm not talking about money and how many people join the hobby, its about keeping the hobby real, keeping it the way it suppose to be. When people start flooding with their RTR products they are killing the way this hobby works. <snip>


Hmmmm, while I sit here reading your words on a monitor miles away from you and listening to one of my 300 TV channels after I've taken my kids to school in my car, dodging the 1000's of vehicles with one person in each one, I'm trying to figure out you're reasoning. As I take a drink from a plastic bottle of unpolluted water (as far as I know) which I had to buy while people around me die of cancer, aids, and antibiotic resistant diseases... I have to wonder if you don't have a piont in a small way.

I seriously don't think we'll ever see this hobby offer only RTR vehicales, but if it does then it will be following suit with everything else in life... the gotta have it right now attitude in which many of us live by.

So please excuss me while I throw some lunch in my microwave and dump some fuel in my RTR Ruster or my kit built GT and make some noise. Hmmm, or maybe I'll just take a walk in woods, sit by the stream and listen to the wildlife. I mean this is what our fathers worked so hard for, right?


edit... Or maybe type an email to RCV begging for a spell checking program. :eek:

edit #2.... or RCZ even. :rolleyes:

[Kdd]

Either way, the most 'complaining' seems to be from a few on this insane thread....LOL...

And they are very young still .... Just wait until Life kicks in and they get really busy.....

This may drive them to RTR's or KITS!!!!! RTR's because they have no time or kits because they need an escape....

Either way, doesn't matter what 30 people on one thread say... Things always change, thats the only truth to life...


sees ya..

[mab_man20]

Ive been in this hobby hardcore for a little over 6 years and have worked at a hobby store for the last four. During that time there has been a major change in this hobby.

When i got my first car, my parents pitched in a little under the condition that i had to build the car. At first i didnt realize that EVERY SINGLE ONE WAS A KIT. Contrary to what most of you are thinking right now, i was jumping up and down because i thought the coolest thing in the world was going to be building one of these!

Having tried to sell many people rtr's and kits over the years, i have learned that most people just getting into the hobby want the RTR because they dont have the time or possibly dont think they have the knowhow.

I think RTR's are great because it gets MORE PEOPLE INTO OUR GREAT HOBBY!! We are not part of some secret club, we want more people and RTR's is doing that and then they will upgrade to kits.

Manufacturers will never get ride of kits because there will always be people like me, who love building!

Long live the hobby, KITS and RTR's!!!!!!

[chucksolo]

I think as time marches forward you will see that kits will be in the minority, but I don't really think they will disappear altogether. There will ALWAYS be those who want to build their cars/trucks. I think RTR will dominate eventually though. Notice though how MOST if not ALL the new generation (Post TMAXX) of nitro monster trucks from Kyosho, Tamiya, Thunder Tiger, etc., come RTR? This may be because of the complications inherant in the new reversible transmissions. I think those sort of things mandate RTR. None of those new MTs look to be of low quality either. You are seeing a new breed of RTR in the MTs that I believe will eventually define all RTR kits. Traxxas deserves a hand of applause for that.

[mab_man20]

I think full race breed machines will always be kits because when you get to that level most people want to build those kits. Manufaturers will offer this kits in RTR form, but the kits will remain, and most likely continue to be released first.

[pudder]

Originally posted by rcnitropro1


plus the more people we can whomp on in races!!!!

Hey now! We are supposed to help them out, though it is kinda funny to mess with them in a race. Even though I was a newbie to racing this year, my friend came in late and one day it was just us racing, I just messed around with him all day, hehe.

-mike

[TravisR]

I just bought my first R/C. Yes it was RTR. Would I have got one if it was a kit only, probably not. The reason why ( I tell people because I'm lazy :D ) is for one I don't have time I work a bunch and when I'm home I watch my daughter. My wife is in school and needs the time for homework/tests, etc. I couldn't imagine having a 1000 pieces laying around with a 2yr old close by. By the end of the first night it would be somewhere around 500 pieces. Kids have a great knack for losing stuff. If I had time and didn't have to worry about parts running off ,I would build a kit. I like others ,would get alot of pride knowing I built it. But for me that is not an option right now. JMO

[Shakes]

I also think that rtr cars are great. They only help the hobby by bringing more people into it. They are also nice because for those that build kits you have to decide things like fm or am, Lrp or Novak, Jr or Airtronics or Futaba or Hitec or..., Trinity or Peak or Orion or Reedy or ...., metal gear servo or coreless metal gear or ...., I think you all get my picture. We have so many different brands and options that a newcomer to the hobby would be totally lost. With a rtr they don't have to decide all that right away. Plus they can always upgrade parts as they learn more.

I bought a T3 a FT B3, a old gold tub rc10, a Traxxas stampede, a Traxxas nitro sport, a Kyosho USA-1 and a Clodbuster. Some were ready to run and some weren't. Does it matter to me? Nope. They are all great products and I can honestly say that the kits I built don't give me more enjoyment and pride than a rtr.

As for them not knowing how to fix something when it breaks? Who cares if they go to a hobby shop to have it fixed. When they are in there to get their car fixed,more than likely the hobby shop guy will tell them about upgrades etc, which means more sales for them and more hobby shops for us.

I also feel that helping someone out at the track is good to. Heck I went to my local track for the first time and watched. Nobody asked if I had a car or anything, so after the races were over I left. I didn't go back till I mentioned it to my buddy and got him hooked on rc's. We went back to the track and this time we met some great guys that asked if we were going to race sometime. I told him I had my rc in my truck but didn't have any dirt tires ( I had street tires on at the time) to race, so he says " No problem. If you want to borrow some tires for today I will lend them to you." Another guy said he would fast charge our batterys for us also. Well guess what? After that trip we went back many weekends to race.

[CTS1]

Buggy Boy, do u actually think everyone is so stupid that they wouldn't know how to repair their first rc if it was RTR ? I am new to all this and i have rebuilt, and cleaned my Stampede RTR twice. Without help from this BB or a manual or a hobby shop. People are not has stupid as u think. I can't stand when people bash what other people buy. Did it ever occur to u (and others) that some people actually have a... BUDGET ? or that some people would rather run out of the box instead of spending a few days building a car they have had their eye on for a while ?

[pudder]

I think he is far away from here now...

-mike

[ag2001]

hey pudder, this is offtopic, but do u have a jugg that was in rcca?? cuz it haad your name and it said the person had 14 rcs, and it seems like u have a lot..
well just wondering

[rcnitropro1]

rtr is ready to run, nothing or very little to build. you just fuel up and start driving. when race worthy r/c cars came out and for awhile after that you had build the cars from kits. does that help?

[4W Drifter]

I absolutly cannot stand rtrs. They drive me crazy! I started in this hobby 7 years ago with an RC10T (which I still race today) that I had to build. I personally love to build and tear apart things in my free time so I naturally picked a kit instead of a traxxas, which was just about the only company who offered an rtr. The guy at the hobby store kept trying to get me to buy the traxxas because I had never built one before but I refused and walked out with my 10T. The next day, low and behold, I had it running! And since I built it myself, I can tell almost exactly what is wrong with the car just from heraing it.
The part that really drives me nuts though is the attitude of people towards their rtrs. Im not talking about all of them but some people just shouldnt even be allowed to hold the transmitter. For example, there was a guy up the street from me and he liked to watch my car doing jumps and stuff so he decided to go out and buy one for himself. The next day he came by and said he had just purchased on. When I asked him what kind of car it was, he said he couldnt remember! It doesnt stop there, oh no. He gets it out the dext day and I can hear the awful screem of a nitro engine thats being overrevved and in desperate need of some carb adjustments. OK, alot of carb adjustments. When it finally reached me it was barely moving, so naturally I asked him why. He just casually says he doesnt know and walked off, car in hand. I never saw that car again. The point? I HATE IMPULSIVE PEOPLE! I spent about 2 weeks deliberating over what kit to buy and this guy just buys the first thing he sees and doesnt have to build. If you really dont want to build a car then go to toys r us and get yourself a piece of plastic!

OK, I feel better now.

[servant]

Well, I guess that sums up my opinion! I love to build 'em, myself. My first buggy was an AE champ edition, and I had no idea I had to build it until I got it and opened up the box! But what a joy that was and I knew my little toy inside and out!

That is the only real disadvantage of RTR's that I see: currently, it seems to be conducive to owners NOT knowing some things they ought to know. Please notice that I said, "conducive." The RTR's make is so easy to get started that you do not NEED to know much at all. It is kind of like (just kind of) giving someone the means to fly a plane and not REQUIRING that they learn how. But I think it is this way just b/c RTR’s are still relatively new, and the hobby is not nearly done with it’s evolving related to RTR’s. Things are still adjusting to the change.

Another thing is it’s more a matter of supply and demand than anything else. People are buying RTR’s! Great! I will buy kits!

The only real PROBLEM here is some people do not like where the hobby is going! And you know what? That’s not a problem either, b/c you have every right to dislike it or not!

You know what the bottom line is to me? It’s a hobby. It’s something that I enjoy a lot. And I’ll enjoy it the way I want to enjoy for as long as I like. And if things were to change so much that it made it practically impossible to enjoy it the way I like, OH WELL! It’s NOT like trying to discuss the effects of growing acceptance of child/adult sexual relationships. Now that is important!!

Now take care, be good and have FUN!
serv

[servant]

4W Drifter,

SO WHAT?! Maybe you should save your disdain for when some does something like maliciously attack you (physically, emotionally, whatever). I do not see how what that guy did hurt you in any way. And if you were concerned for the hobby at large, then you may have helped him instead!

I suppose this illustrates what I was trying to communicate in my last post.

serv

[pudder]

I enjoy the hobby. Obvious fact eh. Well people (example: spoiled rich kids that get an RC, dont know jack **** about them, really should get them. If you are not prepared to read the manual, dont even bother to start.

This is NOT negativity to RTR, just certain people.

-mike

[J92s]

RTRs make it easy for people to get started. That brings in more $$ to the hobby industry. Which benefits everyone by bringing down prices and giving manufacturers more money to hire more people to make more and better products. Who gives a crap if some kid gets something that he doesnt know how to fix?? Its not you're problem...

just my 0.02

[Jelo]

Originally posted by J92s
RTRs make it easy for people to get started. That brings in more $$ to the hobby industry. Which benefits everyone by bringing down prices and giving manufacturers more money to hire more people to make more and better products. Who gives a crap if some kid gets something that he doesnt know how to fix?? Its not you're problem...

just my 0.02
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[WheelNut]

CTS1-Never assume people are smart. lol. He is right that many people are like that-my bro for example. His first RC was a max ST. he didnt know how to do anything to it. And then he got a Tmaxx, same thing. Both of them are sitting on the shelf unused for many months now. I think thats what happens to many weho get RTR's.

[mab_man20]

4W Drifter:

If you were nice to the guy and helped him tune his engine and get it running correctly you could have a great buddy to race/bash with. How do you think most people learn about these? They either read everything there is, or they get a car and find someone more knowledgeable to help them. So guess what? You ruined a perfectly good hobby for this guy because you thought he was stupid and didnt know what he was doing because he didnt build his car and know everything about it the forst day. Give yourself a good pat on the back.

[Gutter Ball]

So people who buy a RTR don't know what's going on....at first. Big deal! They'll learn as they go. Sooner or later, they'll have to fix something and then they (should/might) learn. Sure their "learning curve" will be different, but say in a few months, they'll probably know just as much about their kit as someone who built it themselves. You can spend a whole day building your kit and I could be out racing in 20 minutes. If they have the money to pay someone to fix it, good for them. Maybe they don't want to learn how to fix it, they just want to drive. Just because you built the kit yourself doesn't mean anything to anybody but yourself. I know lots of experienced builders that build kits themselves and still make small mistakes. It doesn't matter what you start with (I started with a Hornet that was already built for me), people will learn as they go and if you don't want to help someone because they have a RTR, then oh well for you. Nobody knows "everything" as soon as they start.

[Mason Copeland]

My first few cars were RTR's and before I even bought my first kit, I knew more about RC than the guys behind the counter at my lhs (not to brag or anything). I wish I could work there and I'm almost sure they'd hire me, but I'm only 13 and it's a 20 minute drive.:(

[4W Drifter]

Hey mab, I TRIED to help the guy but he refused to listen. he is probably the rudest guy ive ever met in this hobby. I guess because hes about 30 and doesnt want a highschool kid to tell him what to do. The reason i havent seen him was because the guy got the car about 2 weeks before I moved to michigan. If someone cant build a kit because they have very little free time then by all means buy and rtr but dont act like a stuck-up person and refuse the help of other people. If you have the time to build one then I strongly reccomend it. Thats just my opinion.

[phatvw1]

Since I am a mechanically inclined person person I ordered a Tamiya TL-01 kit as my first R/C car. In fact, the fact that I had to assemble it was a selling point to my mom who was questioning whether or not I should get in R/C. For a moment she thought that I was buying a toy car, but I persuaded her to the "dark side". I ended up building it in about 2 hours and now know every nook and cranny of my car. I felt rewarded when the last screw went into the chassis, the paint dried and it went flying down the street. I will continue to buy kits. In fact, I've only been in the hobby for 4 months and I'm about to order a traxxas Rustler KIT within the next month.

I don't like RTR's, but I can see their target market... much of it has already been discussed, so I won't repeat it. In fact, myself and a friend of mine (5 yrs younger than me, I'm 19...) found RCCA in or local magazine shop and we both decided to get into the hobby because we like full-size cars and we've our fair share of spills with Radio Shack cars/trucks in the past. My friend, though, didn't have enough money to follow my route and get a kit, but jumped on a Kyosho Alpha RTR when the price dropped. Yeah, it's an RTR but he's mech. inclined as well and is already planning to get bearings, etc. and is willing to take apart his car. RTR's are a great way to be introduced to the hobby, I prefer kits. It's as simple as that. I will not look down on RTR drivers.

Also, my 8 yr old cousin saw my TC a week after I got it and is now sooo into R/C and bugging his parents about it. They came up to me one evening and sort of hinted at the idea that he'll get one (with big wheels, but on a tight budget) for his birthday in Sept, but that they'd need my help. I'm thinking about suggesting a RTR Rustler and hand down my soon-to-be replaced by a MRC SuperBrain 959 charger for the simple fact that he'll have difficulty assembling it and that RTR is not really RTR.

RTR's are geared for the young ones, the future die-hard R/C'ers - what most of us are now. If you want the hobby to survive the next 15 years then you need to recruit the next generation. Just my 2 cents...

[WheelNut]

phatvw1 well said, I agree.

[rcnitropro1]

i got an alpha too, it is not stock any more, new body, scrap built electric starter, wheels and tires, bigger fuel tank and futaba radio gear. i even painted the bland aluminum chassis to black. my next car will be either a nitro tc3 or a nitro rs4 pro 3. what would you guys suggest? (no rtr, i don't like them.)

[mab_man20]

If he is truely a dick and you tried to help him out then GOOD JOB!! If he is to dumb to listen then he wasted a lot of money.

I think this is more of a person issue then an RTR issue. Yes it allows people who dont care to get cars, but that means MFG's get more money to do more stuff, meanwhile the person who got the car either loves it and learns more, or gets bored and never runs it again. In all cases WE are the winners.

[Jelo]

My first R/C was a Nikko buggy with the lame "turbo" on the dual-stick controller. Took 10 AA batteries and had a pretty weak runtime. I think it was about $35, though, so it's forgivable, I guess. I'm glad I didn't have to build that sucker too as I was 9 and it still wouldn't have been worth it(not that they even came in a kit). What I wouldn't have given for a hornet or something more substantial.
When I was 25, I bought my first "real" R/C...an HPI RS4 Sport2. Built it that night and dropped an 11-turn in there with a Novak reactor and futaba magnum radio/reciever. Not a bad car. Wasn't too hard to get it together and the thing's run like a champ. Only problem is that I've cracked the upper deck, but it still charges just fine...anyways, that's my beater now since I've gotten a T-Maxx and a TC3 that a friend built but couldn't afford to keep.
I've already had to redo some of the work on the TC3 because he really didn't know what he was doing and I've also had my tribulations with my T-Maxx as it was my first(and only so far) nitro R/C. It's spent some time on the shelf since I eventually got frustrated, but when I fould out that I'm not the only one and that you just have to get the hang of it, I went ahead and started upgrading and modifying it. Now I got it running with a new exhaust and flipped carb so I can actually tune it without major difficulty. My first month of having it, I smacked a curb, so I ended up rebuilding the front-end as the bulkhead, hinge pins and A-arm had broken. No problem...just get the parts and look at the exploded diagram to see how it all goes back together.

Buying an RTR kit for me is like buying a real car. You know it's not gonna stay that way. Eventually you'll break something or find that a certain upgraded part or 2(or more in most cases) will do you wonders in whatever area of performance the gain might be attained. The point is that price is sometimes a factor. Maybe you can't get everything you want from an RTR, but at least you're up and running and can upgrade gradually as you can afford it.

You see, there are benefits and drawbacks to both. A well-built RTR may outperform a poorly built kit, but the difference is in the workmanship.

This is just a hobby for cryin out loud. You can't be critical about a hobby. Then you're just another stuck-up snob and nobody likes a snob.
I'm not saying that drifer is such a person. Actually, I've read a few of his other posts and the guy seems quite knowledgeable, but alittle more thought before making such a general statement might be in order next time.
Yeah, I bought an RTR, but that doesn't mean that I'm doing anything bad for the "industry". Besides...what do you care anyways? You're just trying to say you don't like some types of people and I think I'd have to agree. My roomate's kinda the same way. He's driven by competition and if there is none, then he loses interest(same as an inexperienced person running into an obstacle and giving up). He's got a nice nitro RS4 just sitting on the shelf. Half-tuned and bearing new upgrades only to be a wall decoration at the moment.

Time will weed out the half-asses and the true die-hards are gonna be here to stay...kit or RTR, it's all the same in the end.

[chucksolo]

I just bought the OFNA OB4 International electric sedan and let me tell you, aside from the radio and the stock motor, this thing is awesome for an RTR. The price was $159.95 from Ultimate Hobbies in Orange, Ca. This and the XXX-NT, RC10GT Plus send RTR kits to the next level.

[sanseric]

The great thing about rtr is this it is a choice.When i was a kid me and my dad did race rtr was simple Iwas 8 my son is 7 he is learning and when your explaining something it better be simple Lets not forget why the hell we spent all this money in the first fun plain old fun Lets be honest it is the coolest thing when your machine is perfect and somebody says that to you And it does not matter how much you spent or hop ups it,s just cool:D