Lower limits of RFFS-100????

[MicroPhil]

Just wonder what has been the smallest of small built with the RFFS-100? I know with the new Polymer cells, planes should get even smaller, but here is my 12” Guided Mite with 30” of wing area. A very successful flyer with 3 - 50mah nicads and a N-20 from Toy Tronics. Has any one attempted to fly with less wing area? With the new Polymer cell we could see 20” of area in the air before long.

Philip

[MicroPhil]

Flying Outdoors

[MicroPhil]

and indoors

[dhurd]

Phil,
I made one of these and used 2 50mah cells. It was amazing how slow it could fly! With the LiPolys I predict we may be able to make a Guided Mite with unlimited vertical. :eek:

Dan

[dow]

Philip,

I don't see an elevator, are you doing this one R/M only? It also appears you are using the DU rubberband hinge method, if so how do you like it? I like the way it adds a little centering, particularly on the elevator. BTW, cost of the toys keeps going up as you go along...it never ends. The only hope is to make enough money to keep up.:D

Dave W.

[Ralph B]

15 Square inches. 135 Ma. Li poly cell, home made B.I.R.D. style quarter gram actuators (85 Ohms), and RFFS-100. 70 degree climb angle on direct drive E-charger motor with GWS 2.5 X 1.0 prop. 18 grams.

Ralph B

[MicroPhil]

The main reason I want the 135 mah Polymer cell now is because the way I saw Ralph's E-Charger jump out of his hand like a ROCKET. Now I must have one, guess it is the way this hobby works.


Dave,

The yellow you see is not rubber, but thin strips of lite span that I'm using for hinges. This method has no centering what so ever. This model was originally designed for Rudder only control, so I decided to keep it that way. Well OK that is not true, I originally had an elevator, but in a crash I broke the coil, so I taped it together and like the way it flew. So here I am flying rudder only. This is a very stable model, and I had no issue flying indoors without an elevator.

Philip

[all_fly_all_day]

has anyone tryed making a super micro bi-plane? You could have a six inch wingspan and have the same setup as Ralph's e-charger hes got there. You could easily get 20 sq inches. I dont know if the drag would be a problem, plus you would have an extremely small space for the equipment. It is amazing what we can fly these days. I think it would be pretty neat to see a pea sized bi-plane flying around:) .

eat-sleep-fly

Brandon

[Ralph B]

Brandon:

Yes, I have considered the micro biplane you suggested. One of the reasons I converted the E-charger was to see if the smaller actuators and direct drive were going to be able to cut it in somthing that small. I have a biplane design that I have named the Yardmaster that I hope to build when time permits. I originaly designed the Yardmaster for 3 Nicad 50 Mah cells but now that I have tested the 135 Mah LiPoly cell I will be scaling the Yardmaster down to a smaller size. The E-charger has a wing area of about 15 sq. in. I don't think that is the lower limit yet, not outdoors at least. Your quite right, it's amazing what we can do with our modern equipment.

Ralph B

[all_fly_all_day]

Sounds cool Ralph. Cant wait to see the pictures.:D

[Fwilly]

Ralph B
were you able to make the echarger fly off of the 3 cell nicd?

[Ralph B]

Fwilly:

The first attempts to fly the E-charger were on the 3 cell Nicad pack. It was a little too windy at that time for the model to have much of a chance to fly, however, there was no doubt that the 3 cell set up would be a fine flyer. While I was waiting for the winds to let up I received one of the 135 Mah LiPoly cells and used it from then on. The E-charger has been retired so that I can move the equipment into a balsa airframe. Here is a photo of the E-charger on the 3 cell 50 Mah Nicad.

Ralph B

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Ralph,
Man, you are sumpin' else. That is both an incredible little machine, and a really neat picture. Questions. did you use the original E-Charger prop? What sort of camera are you using that will focus so well on a moving model?
Regards, Dave

[Ralph B]

Hi Dave:

I used the original E-charger motor direct drive with the GWS 2.5 X 0.8 prop. The 2.5 X 1.0 works well but draws a little more current and does not rev up as nicely. The total current draw of the complete system (static) on the Li Poly cell is 700 Ma. With the 2.5 X 1.0 prop the current was about 50 to 70 Ma. higher. Your right about the stock E-charger prop it's a dud.
My brother Paul was the photographer and used his new Olympus digital camera for the shot. I don't know the model number of the camera but I do know it's a 2 megapixel camera. I was lucky enough to have both a high resolution camera available as well as a high resolution photographer!
Based on this test effort, I do think a smaller model is practical. There is plenty of power to handle a higher wing loading. I'm sure you remember the full size plan of the Whitman Tailwind the great Walt Mooney published in Model Airplane News in the early months of 1962. I bet you still have a copy of that one to. The wing area apears to be 9 sq. in. Believe it or not, I'm quite confident this model can be flown on the E-charger set up. I plan on trying it in the future.
Here is a photo of the E-charger right after launch, which gives a great size reference.

Ralph

[wacoykc]

Ralph B / or others

I'm in a little late on this thread, so maby theres already an answer to this question, which is, what supplier are your buying your Li-Poly cells from.

Regards
Byron

[Ralph B]

Byron:

Bob Selman is going to be selling the cells in a couple more weeks. Bob has also designed a nice charger for these cells. You can find the information at :

http://users.joplin.com/~bselman/

I have used several of Bob's products and highly recommend them.


Skyborn Electronics is another source for the batteries and a charger. The web address is:
http://bktsi.com

Ralph B

[dhurd]

I will be selling the Lipoly's within a week or two. My website will be opening no later then this weekend. We're going to be having a special on the RFFS-100 as a grand opening.

Dan

www.smallrc.com

[Fwilly]

will you be selling the unterminated coils at your site?

[dhurd]

Yep, as well as Litz wire. I acutally am opening my site tonight even though all the products aren't posted on there but the coils and litz wire should be there in a couple of days.

Dan

[all_fly_all_day]

Hey Ralph, how fast/slow and acrobatic is the e-charger? and it would be cool to see a video of that thing flying (hint hint);)
Looks pretty good. cant wait to see that 9 sq. in plane whoa!:eek:

[Ralph B]

Brandon:

The E-charger flys like a good speed 400 sport model. It has plenty of power (on the LiPoly cell) for good sport aerobatics. The design is not too great however. If you let it slow down it tip stalls and spins in. It's light enough that it doesn't hurt it to much. I did the conversion just to see what would happen and to get a feel for how the direct drive and smaller actuators would work. I have retired the E-charger so I can move the radio into another model (9 inch biplane). I don't have any way to do the video, sorry.

Ralph

[wacoykc]

Hi Dan:
I've used Litz wire (or have attempted to) in the past. What method do you suggest in not only striping the wrapped fabric insulation, but then removing the enamel coating from the wire strands so they can be soldered.
Regards
Byron

[dhurd]

Byron,
The wire that we are offering has no fabric insulation and the enamel coating will disapate (sp?) when soldering so there is no need to strip the wire.

Dan

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Ralph,
You mentioned that your brother has an Olympus camera that he used for the action shots. My camera is an Olympus C3040 3.3 megapixel and I have had rotten luck getting good focus with this camera in action shots. When you get a chance, would you ask Paul if there are any special settings or techniques that work for him?
Along the same line, you mention that you do not have video capability. My Olympus will shoot a digital video that can be loaded dirctly onto a website. Maybe Paul's will also.
Thanks for sharing the fun with the little E-Charger, somebody has to push those boundaries.
Take care, dave

[Ralph B]

Dave:

I will ask Paul but since your camera is a lot more high end than his is, I think a lot of the difference is the photographer. I usually shoot the Pictures for Paul's reviews and I never seem to get the results he does. I will also look into the video capibility of his camera. Thanks,

Ralph

[wacoykc]

Hi Dan:
Glad to see you'll be marketing Litz wire that sounds to be a lot more idiot-pruff that the stuff I have, which is the same Litz wire that 'Cloud Nine' sells. I'll be ordering some. Anyway, seeing as how I have a bizillion feet of this wrapped and enameled Litz wire, do you, or any other "listers", have a technuque for stripping this stuff. Time I get to a solderable state, I've lost half of the strands, that must be at least 40 AWG or finer.
Regards
Byron

[NMT_RACER_BOY]

hey ralph, is that the stock prpeller on your echarger plane? at wal-mart, the e-charger's prop. is black and diffrent

[MicroPhil]

NMT_RACER_BOY

In this thread Ralph mentioned the prop used, I think it was on page one. Just read Ralph's post and you will find the answer.

Philip

[gonflyin01]

Ralph B what is your AUW? Can you post a pic of the inside? Thanks;)

[Ralph B]

The all up weight with 3 cell 50 Mah Nicad pack was 25 grams. The LiPoly cell reduced the all up to about 18 grams. Here is a picture of the equipment instalation. It really doesn't show much. The item on top is the 3 cell Nicad, there is a small piece of black foam under the battery with the RFFS-100 under that. The rear end of the motor can be seen just forward of the battery. The prop is the GWS 2.5 X 0.8. The spinner is a home made deal.

Ralph B