Brushless Motor Forum v4.0

[NIC]

To DualBL:

The FAUP:s are great for light cars, meaning cars that don´t draw alot of amps. I tried them in the Kanai and the speed was out of this world :eek: ! The weightreduction was more then 300 grams and it transformed the car totally, but the runtime was only 4 min so they don´t do well in a 1/8 buggy.
Maybe you could put 16 FAUP:s and put a milder B50 S motor in, like a 14 to 15T or something to get the runtime up abit. I don´t think it is a good choise though. I will stick with the GP:s for that car or some soon to be released SUB-C:s.....
But for light 1/10 cars like touringcars and insane speedruns in every class they are hard to beat.

Small videos of my Kanai to you later today, maybe I should make a video of my FAUP-powered 1/10 sedan ?

Thanks !

NIC

[Miha]

Yes, FAUP cells can be charged and treated like nicd cells. But just be beware the voltage doesn't stay below 0.9 V when at rest.

I prefer them to charge at 3 Amps, but have seen quite a boost if I went to 6 Amps. Run them hot of the charger and you'll be impressed :D

@NIC:

I want to see it all, pics and videos of all of your cars!

Best regards,

Miha

[Miha]

Thunder Power lipo stuff. Yes, this is what is all about.

I think the cells are ready to be used in BL powered cars. Just not those redicously wild setups which burn 100+ Amps controllers ...

I think 1/10 touring and offroad, Lehner 4200 with relative mild gearing can go with 2SXp cells.
1/8 also with mild B50S on 3s or 4s setups can be run.

6 minutes on GP3300 is already very "silly" setup or very hard driving. And if the change to LiPo TP proved this that can work, hey that it is!

So expect in real life with more down to earth setups run times much over half an hour. Or more easily, multiply your GP3300 run times by at least factor 3. So NIC could run his 1/8 buggy for at least 45 minutes. How's that NIC? :D





Originally posted by somedude2187
Hey guys check out the li-poly cells from thunder power the pack you want is 2s4p (2 series 4 parallel making it an 8200mah battery pack). They are about the same size of sub c cell packs with 2.5x the amps.

li-poly solve the low amp draw problem, but break them, over charge them, short them, or heat them above 160 and they will release hydrogen gas possibly causing an explosion....but with 8.2 amps who cares.

read xrc they tested them with a hacker c40 a 3300 pack is dead in 6 a li-poly is dead in 20.

my novak will run for a half hour

http://www.thunderpower-batteries.com/

[crono man]

LOL this is the best line from the Li-POLY website!

"In the event of a crash, battery should be placed in an open area approximately 15 minutes for observation
"

:D imagine screaming this after crashing your TC at the track "TAKE COVER MY PACK IS GOING TO BLOW!" :p

[Miha]

Hey crono man, check this out:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=144385

:D

[somedude2187]

I might buy one if i can find an a/c charger for them. xrc reccomended the great planes triton charger but it's dc only. maybe the 969 can charge them

[NIC]

To DualBL:

I have made some small videos but without sound on a cheap digitalcamera. It´s 3 videos with the tarmacs on and 3 with the offroad tires. The quality is ok but not great, sorry for that. It shows a little bit of the Kanai:s speed, but for the total experience you should have had the sound also.
They are in the AVI-format and 3 mb in size or about 20 sec. long.
My friend told me I can´t send that large files with email or can I ?


Thanks !

NIC

[Mr. Constructor]

To DualBL:

Sorry, got that mixed up, OK, the vids will be there till the end of the day !!

To Miha:

OK; LIPOL cells do provide ample of run time, but the Amp output really cannot be used in a Car, my 3 or 4 LIPOL cells (each 1400 maH) really reached only 12 A cont. and around 20 for short time, this is too low !!
(I fast not in that "destruction mode" to test them any further, they should be used in my next project, but this will be only a 12th Car, but with LIPOL and BL in it, something has to be done during the winter time . . . .;-)

To Cold Fusion:

Ok, sorry to you, again, I mixed that up, OK, with the gearing, it greatly depends on the weight of the full Car (weight it on the kitchen weight, the one for eggs and so on)
then from the power you want (speed or accl. or both (bigger motor and bigger esc recommended)
and the use of how many cells (12 is agood choice, most esc´s will use the BEC up to 12 cells and with no hassle, it functions !!)
So normally a Hacker B 50 S or L motor will be used, but the winding is very critical, too much, then the car will be too slow, to less, the car will eat your cells !!

send me some datas, i will then calculate the best setup for you, depending on the lowest money and the best performance for it !!
(i will only use Hacker or LMT Motors, as all the others might not be available to you !!)

Normally I would say:
12 cells x 1.1 V each, 13.2 Volts under Load, then use a very good gas motor (wich easily reaches 45000 RPM, then top it a little (maybe 50000) then divide it through 13.2 V, there you have a base for choosing the RPM, now you have to check the weight, up to 2.5 kg i will use a B 50 S above the B 50 L is a must have, if the torque and Amp draw should be correct, then the gearing:
try to use it around 12:1 first, down gearing is always possible, but in most constructions, there is no room to gear up !! (start with 12 - 14:1)
If the M1 pinions are not available to you, my dealer sells them around 5 USD (in ? around 4) i could get 12-15 and then 20/25/30 and up to 80 or 90
for you, but normally only the 12-15 will be used, they could come with 5mm bore (or even with 4mm, depends on motor, but the worst thing is the money transfer, check this out first !!
OK hopefully the things got a little cleared up !!

[DualBL]

Mr. Constructor, did you say it costs about $5 for a M1 Pinion?
and what about for 1/8 shaft?

ok, I got this message from yahoo today...

Hello electric8ths@sbcglobal.net,

You are near your quota, as you are currently using 9.5MB of your 10.0MB storage quota. If you do not take action soon, you will not be able to receive any more email in your Yahoo! Mail account.

if any one wants to send me a file, maybe use messangers?
AIM: DualBL
Yahoo: DualBL
MSN: tc3punk@sbcglobal.net

thanks
-Nick Sweo

[NIC]

To DualBL:

"-Nick Sweo" Almost like "NIC the Swede" :D ;). Pretty cool.

"Mr.Constructor" and "Miha" has got my videos of the Kanai. Maybe Mr.Constructor will send them to you with his pics. I must get some sleep now.
Let me know tomorrow.

Thanks !

NIC

[DualBL]

lol @ NIC

I cleared my email's, so I spose, if you send like 9mb at a time, it'll work.
like send 9mb worth, then let me get it, clear my email, then you'll be able to send another 9mb.
and if you have one big vid, you can cut it up into 9mb sections, and I can put em back together, before I put it on www.coldfusionracing.com/8ths/
thanks
-Nick

[Miha]

I got the vids from NIC. Thanks!

I am making a short easy video mix out of the clips.

[Miha]

OK, here it is Divx file 5.88 MB

NIC Kanai video (http://www.modelarji.com/upload/NIC/NICkanais.avi)

I will delete video soon, so DualBL get it on your site fast :)

[DualBL]

thnx miha, you can delete it now, it's up on cold fusion's host.
:D

NIC, what motor are you using?
in the vid, it says 11s
but I could have sworn that Mr. Constructor said it was a L...
so which is it? :confused:

[DualBL]

on a side note,
I'm getting close to finnishing my 3HP TC3 Project ...:D

TC3HP (http://www.rcrevolution.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2595)

[k_sw31]

So the bottom line is, it will be really slow?

;)

[DualBL]

if you're calling this thing slow, I'd hate to hear what you call your cars :p

[k_sw31]

Well, you have to admit, currently it is pretty slow considering its not even built yet! :p

[Miha]

Nick, thanks. I deleted the video from my site, but heck, I cannot edit my post.

Anyway, on NIC photos there is clearly to be seen Hacker B50 S motor. 11S says NIC and that I wrote on the video.

No one commented the video , well the buggy performance. In my opinion this is what I expected, but it is quite amazing to see how low CG affects performance.
GREAT JOB NIC! :D

I would like to see how it goes with FAUP cells especially acceleration on tarmac :)
How about that NIC?

NIC, we are also awating videos of your small rocket. With FAUP cells please ;)

[NIC]

To Miha:

Yes, it transform the car totally if I use the FAUP:s. The acceleration is really eyewatering, but since the runtime is only about 4 min with them I don´t consider them a good choise.
I have to solder them abit different if I´m gonna use them in the Kanai, so it´s an hour long deal. We will see, maybe soon.


To all:

The sedan will be having 6 FAUP:s on the video and geared 81 spur and 50pinion for a total of 3,59:1. Speeds are in the real measured 100km/h and over, or 62mph if you like.

The video will be shot were I do my speedtests abit away from traffic, not on the street were you saw the Kanai.
I will see if you are able to catch a glimse of the car just by looking at the video, cause the road is flat and we shoot the video from just a persons hight. So it will just swooooch by.....
If it doesn´t work well we are back on the dangerous highly trafficated road were I live.

Packs are chargeing !

Thanks !

NIC

[DualBL]

lol, I forgot to say that that vid was AWESOME!
:D
it went better than I though, and i have no doubt that your buggy would EASILY outhandle mine, because mine has such high CG :(

could you explain how you have the clutch bell's screw on?
pictures?
part #'s?

thanks
-Nick

[RCmaniac324]

Originally posted by DualBL
on a side note,
I'm getting close to finnishing my 3HP TC3 Project ...:D

TC3HP (http://www.rcrevolution.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2595)

:eek: :eek: :eek: <--- That's all I have to say...once done, pics please!!! Good luck on your runs. Your gonna need a huge area to run it. :D :p

[NIC]

To DualBL:

The adaptor is made from scratch and consists of 2 parts. You just screw the 2 parts together with the clutchbell in between.

Since I have alot of clutchbells left from my old nitro MP 7,5 I needed an adaptor so I could test out the right gearing.

I had it made to me by an old highly qualified man. He can make anything, and I really mean that :eek:. He makes homebuilt jetengines and a 70hp V12 engine just to name a few. He´s into flights mostly but helps all modelers with their problems.

I will try to take a picture of it later.

Thanks !

NIC

[Miha]

I got NIC videos of his TF2 on 6 cells ... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Does anybody have some webspace I am gona make some divx videomix out of the clips.

[DualBL]

Miha, go to www.******.net , and upload it.

NIC, how much would you/he charge to make 2 of these adapters?
they fit all 1/8 shaft motors right? (Im' guessing yes, cause it's on your B50 S...)

Mr. Constructor, "send me a mail, when you´re finished with the site !!"
what's that mean lol?
the www.coldfusionracing.com/8ths/ IS done, and then it'll continue to be updated as more people submit info/pics/vids :p

thanks
-Nick Sweo

[NIC]

To DualBL:

Actually my Hacker B50 has a 5mm shaft so the adaptor is made for 5mm shafts and it has a M4 set-screw to secure it.

Contact me privately about that.

Thanks !

NIC

[DualBL]

well, then CRAP
you can get 5mm b50 S's?

I'll email you when I get home from work ;)

[Miha]

All Hacker B50 series have 5 mm shafts off the factory if not otherwise noted.

NIC TF 2 video (http://www.******.net/view_single.php?medid=10438)

Hope it works. Otherwise see www.******.net

[Mr. Constructor]

To DualBL:

the 178 pinions should be hard to get, but 4 or 5 mm ones isn´t a problem, the available range is between 12 and 20 teeths 0ne up each !!
(but it really goes up to 70 or 75, i will send you the list, as soon as i get it, they´re in german, this is my Dealer, where i got my Titanium parts from, they do have the pinions in steel, aluminium and even in delrin (polyacetal) (all going from 12 to 70/75 in M1
they also do have M 0.7 and M 0.5)
I give you the real prices, not calculated in USD, and without any postage and handling etc.
the list should be in the mail now !!
(sorry with the "page misunderstood" i "dialed the wrong number "
Site is excellent !!

To Miha

Aren´t you planning an 8ths buggy by yourself, i thought that you was asking me some months ago, for some more details (am i right??)
if yes, what has happened to your construction ??

see ya !!

[Miha]

@ Mr. Constructor

yes, I thank you once again for your help.
But I have so much things (mostly) boats that plans shift in priority up and down. I will someday make it, for sure, but the time is undetermined yet.

I saw your vid of 1/8 buggy but I doubt if it shows it's full potential. Am I right? After seeing NIC Kanai --- that's the way it should be :D

[2ffu]

all i need is my
rear tires http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD296&P=7 wich are on order
fixed ss
lexan arms

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1144300#post1144300

[Mr. Constructor]

To Miha:

Hmm, normally the buggy spins out more, but in this small street, there is no room for the 100% Power !!
(but normally NIC´s should be slightly faster, he´s using more rpm on his motor, only a few, but they might result in a slightly Higher end speed overall, i really have to buy a GPS receiver to clock it really, but a new real car is in front of that . . . . .
(and the car is designed for some good accleration, not that much high speed, i think it will be hard to take a real advantage on a med sized trak, only on big sized tracks, there is an andvantage !!
So, the Cars are both not designed for ultra speed, they´re designed for driving !

But at all, maybe the new one will be faster than my old one, but this is to be found out, my motor is in the post next week , so the testing could start, then build it in, then we´ll see !!
(speed isn´t my major factor !!)

[DualBL]

my TEST vid is up at www.coldfusionracing.com/8ths/dualbl.htm
it was only a test, and didn't have right sized screws, so one hung down a bit, and hit the ground, and bent a bit, then the tranny got really "binded", and makes a squeeking noise :mad:
I think it's a bearing being bound up...
anyways, it's a single b50 8s on 12 CHEAP cells, and geared 15/70 but it's got MONSTER torque, and not a bad top speed, considering how it's geared.
elecs, got BARELY warm, so I know I'll be able to run bigger pinion :D

[Cold Fusion]

About how many miles per hour do you guess?

[k_sw31]

Looks good man. It will be awesome to see that sucker geared up with another B50! :D

[DualBL]

I'd guess about 30-40mph right now.
but that's just a GUESS, from ONE run...
i really need to stop at Ace Hardware, and get some decent hardware lol
i swear every screw on that buggy is different from the other lol
you guys like my hacked up spur gear? :p

[RadicalRustler]

i haven't been up to date, i am to lazy to read where i left of on pg 128. seems like dualbl wants vids.

but i'm wondering if i'm under or overgeared - lehner warrior 7018 and 5300, geared 16/87 with standard 2.2 tires and losi rims, bearings.

[Cold Fusion]

You are waay undergeared. I would gear up to about 20/81.

[RadicalRustler]

its a rustler, i forgot to say
my controller is still warm, not out of hand temp, but the motor i can't hold for more then 5 secs
i'll get a smaller spur 2moro, since they are cheaper then the pinions
EDIT: could anyone take pics of the FUAP cells,as i like what everyone says about them, i am going the see if i can get some

[Soya v1.1]

Your motor is getting hot because it's undergeared.

[RadicalRustler]

lol, i'm undergeared!! i was afraid i might still be overgeared, since this is the lowest i can go, my lhs doessn't go lower then 16t

[RadicalRustler]

is 16/78 good for now?
i can get a 17-29t pinion on monday, but i'll do some more testing to find what i like

[NIC]

To RadicalRustler:

I use the FAUP:s and they are really great. But they are just great in certain areas right now anyway.
For light cars and for insane speedruns they are really hard to beat. But for bigger cars the GP:s are still better. So look over your power-consumtion and runtime needs before you deside.
But I can say that for touringcars in 5min heats they get the job done.

I say the same to you as I did to DualBL, do some calling around especially to airplane-dealers as they might help you. We in the car-section are abit "homeblind" as we just see the sub-c:s as the only powersoarse for us, while the airplaneguys has a much wider need for different types of cells they therefore has a more "open-mind" towards cells. They do some more thinking when building an aircraft and choose their cells as a part of thier construction.
And now with the more efficient motors that BL:s are we can go down in capacity and therefore in total weight of the car and still make the runtimes for competition and have good runtimes for bashing around.

I think you should try a pack, they aren´t expensive at all. I payed 6 Euros/cell and that is a really good price for the power you get.

Have you seen my videoclips of my TF-2R with 6 FAUP:s and the Hacker B40 6L ? They are floating around the net somewhere.
Miha put them all toghether into a longer clip (big thanks to him).
They show the power that these cells can deliver. Speeds are in the 90 km/h:s or 56 mph and above in that video.

Miha has some posted some pictures ot the FAUP:S some pages back.

Thanks !

NIC

[Cold Fusion]

I gear my Rustler at 20/81 with the same setup and temps are great with insane speed.

[RadicalRustler]

my car is a 1/10 truck, i'm guessing thats not that heavy compared to a 1/8 buggy, so i should be ok. right now i only have a 1500 shark pack since my 3000 is broken (need battery bars, lhs only had 4 when i went, they get more next week) i think a 7 cell pack would be best since it would give better speed allong with runtime then my 1500 pack. also, 7 cells is the highest my charger goes.
i have looked around, there are 8 cell FAUP cell packs for 50$, thats just over 6$ per cell, quite cheap. I have also been looking at the standard c size, with 4500mah, but i think those are better for the larger 1/8ths.
i don't think can really watch many vids, i only have 56k, so not much time.


my stupid tranny won't let the motor go far enuogh to let my 16t touch my 78 spur, i have to do some slight lightening.

[Corey_25]

Hey guys, i used to be on here everyday but i was in a bad car accident in november of 2002 and im just now getting used to being back home...i havent been around for a while, so could someone please fil me in....im about to get a new xxxt or the new associated t4, i had to sell all my stuff to pay hospital bills :( but im getting back into it now that im recovered.....

[DualBL]

hey corey, welcome back!
there's lots of BL setups at www.brushless.owns.it
and in the Brushless forum at www.rcrevolution.com also.
for a T4, you can go Novak SS (good for racing, and bashing, but not as powerfull as other setups), or you could go with a more powerfull setup, if your gonna be bashing.
for a more powerfull setup, get a Hacker Sport controller, and then decied how much power you need when you gte the motor.
a Lehner Basic 5300 or 4200 is pretty mild
a Hacker c40 is next up, then a b50 S (what I have in my rustler, and LOVE it...), then Lehner 1930's...
depending on how much money you have, the sky's the limit!
good luck :)

[crono man]

hey guys do you think that lehners 1920 series motors are stronger then hacker c40 series?(of equal wind)

[k_sw31]

I think 19 series motors have power around that of a C50...(or B50).

[Anton-C]

a couple of questions about brushless,
1, do any of you only have brushless? i ask because im basically funding my rc obsession mowing lawns, and i dont have a good motor/esc combo yet, so its not practical for me to buy both.
2. is there any hope of brushless being included in the roar rules anytime soon, because there is a race i like to go to near my house, but i havent seen the 2004 rules yet, and i dunno if brushless will be allowed
3 what is the most cost efficent setup, for both racing and bashing
4 is the novak system really as good as everyone says it is

thanks :)

[stampeder1]

I was thinking about getting a hacker c-408s or c-408l and was a little worried about the runtime. How long would each one run on a rustler(with all the stuff like cvds ect.... with a 2400 matched pack. Thanks

Btw what would be about the speed difference from a hacker c-40 8s and a c-40 8l? Thanks

[Soya v1.1]

I don't think there would be a speed difference, but there would be a torque difference.

[stampeder1]

What about the runtime question i had? THanks:)

[k_sw31]

You will have plenty of runtime, probably around 10 minutes, I would say.

[Mr. Constructor]

To stampeder1:

first of all, there is a feelable difference in Torque, about 35% higher is noticeable, but the main difference lies in the weight and RPM, the S version (with 8 Turns) is
198 gr and does 4613 U/min/Volt and the 8 L: 255gr and 3019 RPM.

If you anna use the same RPM, but more torque, then you should go with the 6L version (4025 RPM) but for a small stampede weighting near to nothing for this Motor, the 8S is the choice !!
(the other one will draw too much amp, the power is too much, even on 6 cells, esp. when you plan on running up to 10 cells !!)

As for the running time, it varies greatly with the gearing and overall weight of the Car, but normally on 2400s the running time is around 7 min with the 8S the 8L will be 1-2 min less, due to the wrong power choice !!

The compared datas are from the B 50 series, the C 40 will have :
8S : 5250 RPM/Volt and 147 gr
8L : 3750 RPM/Volt and 187 gr
To reach the RPM of the 8S: 6L (5000RPM) or 5L (6025 RPM)

go with the 8S in any choice (if you wanna get the best compromise, then go with the 8S, it has all you want, and will let you drive around 6-7 min !!
(or even more, depends greatly on gearing and weight and overall situation of the Car !!)

Hopefully this helped you a little !!

I have made a fast shot of my next 8th buggy, a Kanai 2 edition, a "little" beefed up, there is a first (OK, quiet Dark shot) but it shows greatly the ULTRA LOW CG !!
I´m waiting for the Motor and esc, this thing should be ready before the bad weather starts ! (i hope so!!)

[stampeder1]

THANKS Mr. Constructor! I think I might just go with the lehner 5300:( because I want 13-15 minutes of runtime not 6-7.........Oh well...........

[DualBL]

Mr. C, is there any other angles you can get?
is it going to be RWD?
is that the diff that's way in the rear?
thanks
-Nick

[Mr. Constructor]

To DualBL:

OK, i will have another PIC, the Car is a 4 WD 8th buggy, the drivetrain is totally new, the box you saw in the back section, is for housing the motor (a spinning Can really needs some protection, the Motor will be a special LRK one) it also acts as a stiffener, a heat sink, a servo holder, and manages to get the motor to the drivetrain.

But the Car might be ready within the next few weeks (ready for some testing)
I´m waiting for the Motor and the new Schulze ESC (the u force 75)
The LRK Motor is designed to produce power, similar to a 55 000 RPM normal BL Motor (under LOAD !!), but it weights less and does NOT need any trannys !!

I will post some new pics, after getting the motor in, that should be done this weekend, but I´m not shure if i have the time for that, the Titanium parts are really hard to machine !!

a general overview:

[egdinger]

Yeah the lrk motors are great, never thought of doing something like that to get them in a car though. Looks really good Mr. Constructor.

[Corey_25]

Since im gonna buy a associated t4....im wondering what would be a great setup...money isnt a problem....i want somthing bad to the bone but with a lil runtime.....im not racing, just bashing....i want to know about the controller and the motor....

[k_sw31]

I would say go for a hacker master (sport or comp) and build some custom 8 cell packs. Or if you wanna go really extreme, pick up a hacker master comp and a 1920/5. You'll have some insane speed, plus you'll be able to do 12 cells. :D

(BTW, how fast do you wanna go?)

[unit_4tec]

ok what is the diff between 48 and 32 pitch pinion gears?
ohh yeah and also does it really matter what batts i use with my novak ss? like right now im using a 1500 mah shark pack nicd or do u think i should toss it :rolleyes: ? im either thinking of getting a really good gp3300(2 of em) or i might get like 10 shark packs on tower which should i do?:confused:

[Cold Fusion]

Well, I got my axis today in the mail (thanks to Ups who only took 8 days). Things I have done already:

Cleaned everything and tightened hardware
Made Lexan lower chassis
Made Lexan two piece upper deck
Installed Hacker B50 system
Modded a 32p spur for the center diff
Installed Servo and mounts

I still need to mount the battery somehow...



http://www.coldfusionracing.com/axis.jpg

Btw, 2ffu is a great seller. He shipped the same day I mailed the money and gave me an unbeatable price.

[Mr. Constructor]

To egdinger:
Thanks, it took very many hours to cut the parts out of titanium, YES EVERYTHING (that is round or near by a plate design) on that Car is made out of Titanium !! (even the Motor has some parts out of it !!)
Belive it or not, EVERYTHING !!
(i really love that material,it´s really lightweight (not that much than Carbon, but MUCH stronger) and it is tough to the bone !!)
Look at the new Pic, and hopefully belive it ( ;-) )

To Corey_25:
Maybe you should start from the other side, choose the speed you wanna archive and THE the car that might do that(I do so, my projects are choosen from this point of view, a "bad" truck at all (the T4 might not be bad, but for real POWER, there should be an other thing) cannot be turned into a lmonster hp thing !!
(even with self made tuning parts not, because the drivetrain or the chassis or whatever will not go with this power

But if you´re already stucked to the t4, then go with a c40 S (low turn around 6-8) and a Hacker Comp esc (or a schulze typ, very excellent, but pricy) THEN you should really have some very good power, hopefully the car could set the power to the ground !! (because it´s too lightweight !!)

To unit_4tec:

In 48 pitch the measured lenght between the top of the pinions is smaller, so, if the spurs are runnin g more contact area between the teeths
is produced, normally this version is not able to transport really great power, the finer it gets, the les power it will transmitt and otherway round.

[Cold Fusion]

Wow, I just took it for the maiden run. I had it geared 21/66 with 6 2400 cells. It was very very fast;) I guess about 35mph, but I hadn't hit full throttle yet. There is alittle bit of cogging when it starts, but once it's rolling everything is silky smooth. I am going to run it in just a minute with an 18t pinion to see if I was overgeared. The heat was normal, everything was hot, but not so much that you couldn't leave your finger on it.


Anyone who says 6 cells or an 8s won't work in a buggy doesn't know what they are talking about. I think this is an awesome setup and I'm alittle nervous about going to 10 cells;)

[2ffu]

Originally posted by Cold Fusion
Well, I got my axis today in the mail (thanks to Ups who only took 8 days). Things I have done already:

Cleaned everything and tightened hardware
Made Lexan lower chassis
Made Lexan two piece upper deck
Installed Hacker B50 system
Modded a 32p spur for the center diff
Installed Servo and mounts

I still need to mount the battery somehow...



http://www.coldfusionracing.com/axis.jpg

Btw, 2ffu is a great seller. He shipped the same day I mailed the money and gave me an unbeatable price.

man see it complete maks me want to go get another bugg and a c50/master sport:D :D but i am broke:( ;) - eh who cares my parts are bough for my project and now they just have to come


nice job cold fusion can't wait for my arms:D

[tperkins]

whats up everybody. My brother wants to get a T4, and he wants to put a brushless in it. He mainly wants to go for speed, but he has a budget of 300, maybe 350 max for a motor and controller combo. Which would be the fastest and where can I get it online?

[k_sw31]

The fastest setup for under 350$?

That would probably be a hacker master sport and a basic 5300.

It would end up being about 325$ + shipping and all that.

With six cells you will be hitting around 40 or so, I suppose you could easily hit 50 with 8 cells and a little higher gearing.

BTW, the basic and the T4 should be an awesome combo!

[LaBrother]

I run the novak ss in my xxx buggy, im geared at the reccomended 22/78, overall 8.66. Everything is fine except for the operating temps. I put a small fan next to the speedo to keep it cool. It went from around 220 to 170 now. But i am still having problems with the batteries. They get hot, around 170 or so!!!
im using 2000 and 2400 nicds. I just got some new 3300's, but am afraid to run them as such high temps can degrade batteries.
Is this normal? How hot are other peoples batteries getting

Here are some pics of my setup
<p>
http://www.earthland.com/davidla/images/PICT0004.JPG

I also have an aveox rc7 in a t4
http://www.earthland.com/davidla/images/PICT0007.JPG

[DualBL]

my batts get hotter than anything else on my cars, but i'm using cheap 1500 stick packs...

perkins, if you can find a used b50 S for about 150, that's what I'd get lol
but be warned, your truck may be to fast for complete control :p

and then get a hacker master sport car controller

[k_sw31]

Your GP's should be fine, if not cooler than your nicads (because of the lower resistence).

How do you like hte aveox setup? I haven't heard a whole lot about them, but what I have heard are good things...

[DualBL]

www.coldfusionracing.com/DualBL/smoke.wmv
any questions, just ask.
and yes, I did melt/burn a hole in the blacktop 8)
and this is just one motor...
wait till my CFR TC3 chassis is done lol :D

[LaBrother]

Here is a cut and paste i put on another forum regarding the aveox.

The aveox was designed to run on 6-10 cells, when i use 6 cells on my buggy, it has way more top speed than my d4 10x2 or the novak, but the throttle response is slow. It has lots of torque and can still pop wheelies, but it feels more like a gas engine with a slow throttle servo. I am also using only 6 cells, the very bottom end of the power spectrum that this motor is capable of. I just installed the Aveox in my brothers T4 using 7 cells. With this setup the motor feels much more at home(maybe thats why they named it the rc7), there is more power and a more punch, due to the higher voltage but still, the novak can get around the tight indoor track faster. The response with the aveox is just slower than the novak, throttle and brakes. It might just be my motor, ive had it for 4 years and used it in many different applications. Keep in mind that the aeox rc7 was released about 8 years ago, and no changes have been made to it since. The motor has gobs of torque. When i put my feet on the wheels of the t4, the motor spins the slipper as if it wasnt there, and i have it set TIGHT. The aveox would work well for oval racing, or for super powerful monster truck applications up to ten cells. The aveox system also runs much cooler than the novak, as long as u have the gearing right. The kv is only 4000 so i had it geared the same as my stock motors.
The controller has a lack of heatsinks or cooling(i think this controller was initially designed for airplanes, where there would be a constant airflow over it to keep cool), i either use a fan or a heatsink to cool it, both of these methodss work very well, and i can keep runnning pack after pack(with only a couple minutes of cooling between each pack). It does have thermal protection, i think its around 160. You could gear it lower and not need any additional cooling at all. But i have my setup up just a couple teeth under where the controller would thermal, I gear this way for max speed, as the aveox has plenty of torque to spare. The thing i noticed about the aveox is that it actually accelerated faster if u have it geared higher(bigger pinion). It seems as if it has a certain spool up that is constant no matter what your gearing is. So contrary to common motor beliefs, higher gearing with this motor will actually accelerate faster. That is why i have my gearing set just below where it thermals, so that i have max speed max acceleration and max power.
CAN U DIG IT?

The sink is just double side taped to the top of the controller.
I used the fan in my buggy cause there was no room for the sinkhttp://www.earthland.com/davidla/images/PICT0006.JPG
Noobs who want an easy to use brushless, go with the novak, through my experience this motor is better for racing.

For those who want a good monster truck motor, or a motor for insane speed runs get the aveox. It is a very versatile motor, i once used it in an airplane(accord 47)yes it had unlimited vertical. The main thing with the aveox is finding the right gearing, i did fry a controller when i was noob(due to overgearing). The controller is also much bigger and heavier than the novak one.

[mj_bandit]

Should I put my Brushless in my Evader,or Pede????? The Pede is ALL stock,It would need about 60$ in hop ups, the Evader would need the same amount of money to get running..I just dont know which one to do it with.. the Evader needs alot.. where do I get the slipper clutch and wheel bearing for it?????????:(

[DualBL]

id put it in pede, just cause I hear the evader is a POS :rolleyes:

[RCmaniac324]

Hey guys, just figured I'd post a heads-up......Rum Runner Hobbies seems to be getting ready to make their own line of brushless controllers like they did with their SC-8 brushed ESC....... try to go to their "controllers" page, and you'll see what I mean...they're not gonna be selling Lehner controllers anymore (however it seems they'll still sell their motors) and say to watch for new brushless controllers there soon.......wonder if maybe they'll be better in any way, like less cogging? Plus, since they are based in the US (<--I think, correct me if I'm wrong), it should be quicker to get service on controllers, since they will no longer have to ship them back out to Germany..........I can't wait to see what they come up with myself.

[DualBL]

actually, they are making their own brushless controllers, but that's not happening any time soon (so my source says)

but they are going to have controllers...
Schulze...
not sure if they'll stock up or what they'll do about smoked controllers, but schulze seems to be just as bad if not worse than BK when it comes to warranty/replacement :o

[mj_bandit]

What all hopups would the PEDE need for a BL??? I got skidplates so far Need to get:
Aluminum Idler Gear..Bearings..Mayby CVD's?????? Thanks.:)

[k_sw31]

Aluminum idler, 5x11 bearings (and carriers), and atleast steel output yokes, if not CVD's (they would be better).

[LaBrother]

Anyone know how the hacker c40 series compares to the novak?

[crono man]

Originally posted by LaBrother
Anyone know how the hacker c40 series compares to the novak?

the c40 motors would be stronger then the novak but lack the smoothnes of the novak depends on your application...

[LaBrother]

Would the hacker motors be good for racing 2wd buggy?
I was thinking the 7 turn?
Has anyone used the hacker controller in a buggy, does it fit well in the xxx?

[yf22k]

Hey guys,
I've been away from this forum for quite some time now.
I'm looking to buy a second brushless setup this winter. I will be running 6 cells in a highly hopped up tamiya f201. I currently run my lehner 5300/schulze 18.61 combo in there and it is doing great. I was wonderign between the basic 5300, 1520/6, or 1525/6, which would give me the best performance on 6 cells? I'm not too sure which area between speed, acceleration and runtime i would like to improve on but which motor would be good for each of these areas and how much of an improvement over the 5300?

As for a controller, i'm wondering when the new u-force series from schulze will be released if they already havne't been. Does anyone know the brushed motor limits for the 50 and 75 versoins? also what's the amp ratings?

Thanks,
Keith

[DualBL]

I'd go w/ the 1525/
i think your gonna have to wait till Mr. C tries out his U Force, cause I don't know of anyone else that has one...
oh yeah, welcome back :P

[yf22k]

heh thanks. Yeah i've been leaning towards the 1525. Is the u-force out yet?

[k_sw31]

For 6 cells I would say the 1520/6, since it has much high rpms/volt than the 1525 series...

Welcome back, good to see you again. :)

EDIT: Don't forget you'll need the 15 series motor adapter, so you'll be able to use in your F201. :)

http://rumrunnerhobbies.com/accessories.htm

[yf22k]

hmm back to the toss up between the 1520 and 1525...althought eh higher rpm/v range for the 1520 does make more sense. Ok i think i'm set on teh 1520/6...it is a little cheaper and shorter for more mounting room.

Thanks for the info on the motor adapter....I didn't even know one was needed till now lol.

Now all i need is to wait to hear about the uforce controller

[crono man]

Originally posted by LaBrother
Would the hacker motors be good for racing 2wd buggy?
I was thinking the 7 turn?
Has anyone used the hacker controller in a buggy, does it fit well in the xxx?
I usually dont comment on stuff that i havent tried(never owned a hacker) and im sure the guys on this thread will shime in and they will help you out...but i think the hacker is too strong for 2wd off-road i was having enough trouble keeping my novak equipped xxx going straight when punching the throttle,if its for racing i woulndt go with the hacker BUT for bashing and speed run then why the hell not!

Did you find the novak lacking in the speed department?

[Mr. Constructor]

To yf22k:

Good to see you back !!

as for the u force, i´ve spoken to M Schulze (the owner) he told me that the electronics are ready for beeing clued in the housings, then the manual has to be written (they had holiday the past few weeks, so this will take a min. 6 weeks !!

then shipping etc. i wanna have the u force 75 for my 8th Buggy, but this might be a xmas thing !! (here in germany, maybe faster, maybe laster but in the US ???

and the price tag is HUGE, be warned, the price is 286 ? (has to be around 320 USD i think !!)
be aware of that !!

the PC connection (really FULLY programmable in EVERY point) will be released in the 1 or 2 Quarter of 2004 !! (you could programm basic functions off course, but not more !!
this is the latest info (from this monday !!)

As for the Motor, go with the LONGER version, the Torque of the 1520 is too low for some 6 cell 10th cars, mine was too low, then replaced by a Hacker B 40 L (similar in the dimensions than the 1525) and everything was fine, heat was greatly reduced !! (and running times where better than before !!

To LaBrother:

The Hacker is WAY too big for the XXX Buggy, the room is VERY small, you might have to mount it on the "top Deck" or maybe use the upcoming (see above) U force wich is MUCH smaller !!

Normally a Novak is the only system that might fit without any problems !!
The C 40 Motor is always better than the Novak due to the 3 times higher power and performance overall, the only worst thing is a little cogging during the first start up, but that is near 0 when dialed in right !!

if you really wanna have some power, go with the C 40 !!!
(but be aware of what Chrono man said, the power is really brutal !!!)

LaBrother

[LaBrother]

Yes i did find the novak lacking in the speed department. MY aveox rc7 has way more top speed.
I dial in -20 expo with the novak in my buggy, it makes it much easier to drive.

[MaximumSTPro27]

Hey guys. I was wondering, does anyone know where I can get some shrink-wrap that's the right size to re-shrink a Lehner Warrior controller? I'm wondering b/c the stock shrink is startin to get a little worn, and I wanted to seal it from dust since I'm hopefully gonna be ordering a B4 soon. Also, I just have to make sure, is silicone sealant conductive in any way once set? I just don't want to seal the ends of the shrink with it and find out the hard way that it will short out my controller. Thanx.

[RCmaniac324]

Cr@p.....The above post is from me.....I have cookies enabled on my comp and my friend logged in last time he was over but didn't log out.....

[k_sw31]

I'm not sure what heatshrink you could use, you may try calling RRH or Fine Design...

As for silicone sealant it is not what so ever conductive. (And will work excellent for keeping all sorts of debris outta the controller.) :)

[RCmaniac324]

Thanx man....I'll probably just go check out the electronics section of Home Depot sometime soon.....I'm sure they'll have some heat-shrink the right size.

[mj_bandit]

Im debating what BL to get? Its going in a Stampede,and I want it to go HELLA fast. Im thinking about 5300 motor,and the 7018 Contoller..Would that move a pede fast with deans,and cvd's?:D

[DualBL]

it'll def be fast
i on the other hand have decieded to never settle for b50 or less again
it's odd...
after I went mod, I never touched stock, then 5300 came, and i never wanted anything slower
now I have a b50 and think I'm happy for now lol
even tho I break parts every time I run, for the first 3 min, it's a blast lol

[k_sw31]

The 5300 would be a good motor for the pede. I ran mine in my pede for about 1 minute...after that, the idler gave out and I haven't tried it since. Once I get a hacker master sport I will pick up an aluminum idler and try it again.

BTW, for the minute I ran it, performance was awesome, the thing lofted the front wheels easily, and top speed was awesome. All the speed you'll need for a pede with 6 cells. :)

Also, I would suggest going for a hacker master sport controller. Its a bit more expensive, but you get a controller with a hard case and a heat sink. I did not find the quality of my warrior much more than satisfactory. Plus throttle control will most likley be better with the hacker.

[toddzilla]

i want to put a fan on my novak speed controller.. what's the best way to get power to it? i saw a pic earlier in the thread and it looked like they just plugged it into one of the reciever slots..

what's the best fan?

thanks.

[k_sw31]

Just pick up a fan that you think will be about the right size to cool your controller, maybe anywhere from 1"x1" to 2"x2". For power, you could just wire it to an extra 9 volt battery. Either that, or you could wire the fan to the battery connectors on the controller, so it will just run off the main battery pack. :)

[LaBrother]

I think that might have been my pic u saw with the fan facing toward the novak controller. Thats not the best place for a fan, usually i mount them right on top of the heatsinks, but there is no room in my little buggy. I hooked the power right onto the deans connector where the power from the battery goes to the controller.
I have since removed that stupid fan. I found out that gearing down 2 teeth made everything run much cooler without much loss in top speed. But if you must, i'd reccomend using a 5 volt fan if your running on 6 cells, u can get them to spin much faster and cool better than the 12 volt fans. The best way is to have the fan run directly from your mainpack, that fan you saw was 1 by 1 by 3/8. Its rating at 5 volts is only .13 amps!

[OptimaMan]

Hello guys, it's been a while since I last wrote here. I have some interesting info for all you guys that wanna know which brushless motor to run.

I have 5 motors: Hacker B508s, Hacker C40 6, Lehner Basic 5300, Lehner 1515 6 turn, Lehner 1920 5 turn.

In a XXX-S graphite + and 6 cells:
The Hacker b508s is slow. The 5300 is definitely faster - probably close to 40 mph. The 1515 6 turn has such high rpm it kept on hitting the rev limiter but it definitely has a high top end speed - probably about 45 mph. The C40 6 turn has maybe a slightly higher top speed and gobs more torque. Then, the king of them all - the Lehner 1920 5 turn is pure beast! I'm pretty sure a 6 cell sedan can hit 50 mph easily with this motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, it'll do it spinning the tires all the way!!!!!!!!!!!! ONLY problem, you better get a controller that can handle the power without overheating or else...

In an XXX-T Matt Francis, the 5300 is too fast to control on dirt. The b508s is a nice controllable motor for 6 cell racing purposes. (The SLOWEST motor was the best for off-road use. I didn't even try the 1920 or 1515 or c406t) The 1515 doesn't have enough torque - but if you stick this motor into a 1/12 scale pan car with 6 or so cells - using the smaller ones that were mentioned previously, this car could probably hit 70-80 mph.

So, for off-road racing, use a mild motor such as a b508turn or basic 4200. If you are totally hooked up, then use the basic 5300 or something like that.

For sedan racing, the c406 turn is awesome... but if you want outta control acceleration and speed, go to the Lehner 1920 5 turn - but your car better be able to handle the speed and your controller better be heavy duty (expensive setup - 200 for motor, 300 for controller).

For pan cars, mini cars, etc... I think the 1515 would give you awesome top speed without spinning out at every turn. Nice controllable torque with gobs of high speed. This motor will run at 50,000+ rpm with 6 cells!!!!!

Any questions?

[MegaMe]

guys i was just looking at tower and theres another novak brushless system on there for $310, or seperately with the motor for $125 and controller for $210.

its on the novak homepage - big motor :)

[crono man]

Originally posted by OptimaMan
Hello guys, it's been a while since I last wrote here. I have some interesting info for all you guys that wanna know which brushless motor to run.

I have 5 motors: Hacker B508s, Hacker C40 6, Lehner Basic 5300, Lehner 1515 6 turn, Lehner 1920 5 turn.

In a XXX-S graphite + and 6 cells:
The Hacker b508s is slow. The 5300 is definitely faster - probably close to 40 mph. The 1515 6 turn has such high rpm it kept on hitting the rev limiter but it definitely has a high top end speed - probably about 45 mph. The C40 6 turn has maybe a slightly higher top speed and gobs more torque. Then, the king of them all - the Lehner 1920 5 turn is pure beast! I'm pretty sure a 6 cell sedan can hit 50 mph easily with this motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, it'll do it spinning the tires all the way!!!!!!!!!!!! ONLY problem, you better get a controller that can handle the power without overheating or else...

In an XXX-T Matt Francis, the 5300 is too fast to control on dirt. The b508s is a nice controllable motor for 6 cell racing purposes. (The SLOWEST motor was the best for off-road use. I didn't even try the 1920 or 1515 or c406t) The 1515 doesn't have enough torque - but if you stick this motor into a 1/12 scale pan car with 6 or so cells - using the smaller ones that were mentioned previously, this car could probably hit 70-80 mph.

So, for off-road racing, use a mild motor such as a b508turn or basic 4200. If you are totally hooked up, then use the basic 5300 or something like that.

For sedan racing, the c406 turn is awesome... but if you want outta control acceleration and speed, go to the Lehner 1920 5 turn - but your car better be able to handle the speed and your controller better be heavy duty (expensive setup - 200 for motor, 300 for controller).

For pan cars, mini cars, etc... I think the 1515 would give you awesome top speed without spinning out at every turn. Nice controllable torque with gobs of high speed. This motor will run at 50,000+ rpm with 6 cells!!!!!

Any questions?

Those sorts of reviews are VERY helpful please keep it coming!

one question...which controller could handle the lehner 5t?

runtime with lehener 5t and gp 3300?

[OptimaMan]

With the 1920 5 turn motor, I was using a Micro 1895 with heatsink and a receiver pack. The controller's brakes overheated and stopped working - simply from going full blast down the road for about 500 feet and hitting the brakes and turning around. Did that a couple of times. The gear ratio was high - 27 tooth pinion and 90 tooth spur in the XXX-S Graphite and the wheels were spinning out like crazy.

I also have a Schulze 12.97 fwe I might try with this motor. However, when I used to race the hacker c406turn with this motor on the carpet track, and even with 18/90 pinion ratio, it used to overheat and turn off during carpet sedan racing (high traction, constant mashing of the trigger and brakes).

So, for now it seems like I'm looking for a more powerful controller... I might try the Hacker Master Competition - need to buy it. I also thought about buying the Novak system just to compare it with my motors, but I went racing once against a guy in off-road. He had an identical truck as I and I was running the basic 5300 and he had the SS. I'm not sure if he just had awesome throttle control, but I was pulling wheelies in the dirt track with my XXX-T just from pure acceleration while he was just spinning his tires. Also, my top speed was higher and I was geared MUCH lower than him.

I'd be interested in somebody actually comparing the novak ss with any of the other brushless motors.

Perhaps in the future, I'll give a more scientific report on the motors. I'll need a radar gun, speed trap, acceleration tests, etc...

BTW, when I ran my XXX-S with those motors, I tried to gear all the motors optimally for top speed.

-OptimaMan

[OptimaMan]

Runtime??? Don't know - I run GP3300's. Like I said earlier, I geared the motors for optimal top speed (equivalent to max HP which sucks out juice real fast). The 1920 5 turn is so powerful, even with a giant pinion gear, the thing was spinning out. If you put a small pinion gear and raced with it, I'm sure you'll get at least 8 minutes if geared appropriately. I was just bashing up and down the street. IF YOU WANT TO RACE WITH THIS MOTOR, I WARN YOU, IT HAS ALMOST UNCONTROLLABLE POWER!!!! However, it is by far the most powerful motor for 6 cell bashing, drag racing, burning up and down the streets! All the other motors, I can just pull the trigger and they'll all spin the foamies but this motor is so unbelievable, you have to accelerate slowly and if you're going 1/2 throttle and punch it, you'll still wipe out! BJMFH also has this motor and he can attest to that power. However, he has the 4 mm shaft or something. I had to special order the 1/8 inch shaft which took like 3 months to get!!!!

For sedan racing, ashpalt I think I might actually use the 1515 motor (less torque, high top speed), for sedan racing on carpet, the c40 6 turn is awesome - almost too much power. The acceleration is so awesome, I totally understeer when the throttle is on... I might try the 1920 though... and break the car into pieces when I hit those barriers at 40 mph! Haha

-OptimaMan

[crono man]

so the hacker comp master car controller could handle the 1920/5t?

Do the 1920 motors now come with a flat spot on the shaft?

[BJMFH1.01]

The 1920/5 is pretty fun isn't it? I'm glad to hear that you finally received your motor.

The only problem I've had with the 1920 is when using over 8 cells, you will be breaking or melting parts. Right now I've got mine in a T3 and it works great. The highest cell count I ever tried in the truck was 10 cells and I just ended up melting the spur gear onto the slipper clutch assembly. So I stick with 6-8 cells now.

I've got mine hooked up to Hacker Master Comp and it works great. I set the current limiter to 30 amps to avoid excessive spinouts and extra breakage on the truck. So far this setup has worked great for me.

The only thing I have to periodically replace is damaged spur gears. No matter how I mesh the pinion and spur, whenever I mash on the throttle from a standstill I usually break at least a few teeth on my spur gear. This is even with the low current setting. I'm not even going to bother with the higher current settings.

And yeah, my motor has the goofy 4mm shaft. This isn't so much of a problem now that fine design sells 4mm pinion gears. My motor doesn't have a flat spot but I'm sure you could use a dremel to do this.

[crono man]

hey BJMFH

How about cogging issues with the 1920/hacker at 6cells and7cells did you notice any?
could you please tell me if its only from a dead start?

[BJMFH1.01]

Originally posted by crono man
hey BJMFH

How about cogging issues with the 1920/hacker at 6cells and7cells did you notice any?
could you please tell me if its only from a dead start?

My setup doesn't cogg at all regardless of the cell count from a standstill, uphill, reverse, etc. My T3 geared at 18/87 won't cogg at all, even when only powered by six cells. The only way I've ever gotten the 1920/hacker comp to cogg is right after a high speed spinout. Even then it just stuttered for a moment and then resumed tearing a**.

I honestly cannot recommend this setup enough. For a 1/10 scale application powered by 6-12 cells you'd be hard pressed to find something better. For me, this controller and motor is what BL is all about. Overpowered, crazy, drivetrain destroying power is what you can expect when you use this setup.

If you are going to use it in a truck or larger vehicle I would highly recommend that you put a fan on top of the heat sinks. It makes all the difference in the world. You can even run on grass without too much trouble.

Another thing, I hope you like buying tires. With this stuff, you'll be balding them like it's cool.

[crono man]

Originally posted by BJMFH1.01
My setup doesn't cogg at all regardless of the cell count from a standstill, uphill, reverse, etc. My T3 geared at 18/87 won't cogg at all, even when only powered by six cells. The only way I've ever gotten the 1920/hacker comp to cogg is right after a high speed spinout. Even then it just stuttered for a moment and then resumed tearing a**.

I honestly cannot recommend this setup enough. For a 1/10 scale application powered by 6-12 cells you'd be hard pressed to find something better. For me, this controller and motor is what BL is all about. Overpowered, crazy, drivetrain destroying power is what you can expect when you use this setup.

If you are going to use it in a truck or larger vehicle I would highly recommend that you put a fan on top of the heat sinks. It makes all the difference in the world. You can even run on grass without too much trouble.

Another thing, I hope you like buying tires. With this stuff, you'll be balding them like it's cool.

cool thanks BJMFH i was thinking of a crazy combo(kinda opposite to my novak)i think that combo will fit the bill!

[yf22k]

ok now i'm back to indecision between the 1520, 2525 or the 1920...hmmm gonna run with 6 cells and probalby get a new schulze controller not sure which.. the uforce sounds too expensive.

I'm wondering...does the 1920 need a special spacer plate like the 15 series? also, is it possible to order it with a 3mm shaft?

[DualBL]

not sure what shaft size it is, but if it's a 19 series, it has standard screw holes

[BJMFH1.01]

Originally posted by yf22k
ok now i'm back to indecision between the 1520, 2525 or the 1920...hmmm gonna run with 6 cells and probalby get a new schulze controller not sure which.. the uforce sounds too expensive.

I'm wondering...does the 1920 need a special spacer plate like the 15 series? also, is it possible to order it with a 3mm shaft?

You don't need a special spacer plate with the 19 series. Like DualBL said, they have standard motor mounting screw holes.

Do you mean a 3.17mm shaft? OptimaMan ordered his like that but it took over 3 months. Mine has a 4mm shaft, Rum Runners told me that the 19 series would only be offered with a 4mm shaft from now on. I don't know if that's a fact or not seeing as how someone else just received one that wasn't 4mm. Try to get in contact with them somehow. Good luck with that though; they don't respond to emails.

[yf22k]

Hey thanks. yeah i've e-mailed them around 4 times in the last 2 years and have only received 1 response. I think i might try finedesignrc. I've ordered from him before, he sells schulze controllers, and he's not too far from here which my order will get here withing a day or two of delivery. He might have to special order the stuff though.

[OptimaMan]

yf22k:

No matter how high the RPM, the 15 series motor is never going to beat the 1920 5 turn motor. Just not in the same game when it comes to torque. The 1520 or 1525 is most similar to a Hacker b40 series motor. The 1515 is even shorter than a Hacker b 40 series. The torque is lower simply because the rotors have smaller diameter.

If you want the most powerful motor for 6 cell use in a 1/10 vehicle, the 1920 is it. Just make sure you have the car and controller that can handle it.

The only concern I have with Lehner motors in general for off-road use is that their screw holes are real short so you have to be careful to protect the motor from getting hit from behind and stuff like that. The Hacker motors have LONG screw holes - like 6 mm so it's better suited for off-road 2wd buggies and trucks. I don't recommend the B50 series motors unless you plan on running more than 8 cells. With 6 cells, they are just too heavy and not running in their powerband or something. BTW, I did have a B50 6 turn which was supposed to run like 6000 rpm/volt but it was crap - slower than a basic 5300!!!!

The Micro series controllers from Lehner aren't so great. I spent like 300 bucks for a 1895 with heatsink and all and it cogs, and stuff. So far, my best controller has been the Schulze 12.97fwe. I've had the Hacker Master Sport controller and it worked great (no cogging etc.) but it overheated easily when geared really hard. I'm sure the Competition model is awesome. I think I'm gonna get that next when my Schulze or Micro die on me.

Any suggestions on how to test the power of these motors? The dynos I've seen are only for DC motors...


-OptimaMan

[mj_bandit]

Can you mix match motors?? Like a Novak Motor,and a Hacker Controller? Or something, I dont know what BL setup to get for my Pede..:( Im not spending alot either:o

[k_sw31]

Honestly dude, I say just go for the novak system. Its the cheapest, most reliable system out there. Plus the power is still respectable.

(and the power wont break as many parts as say a basic.)

[mj_bandit]

Yea but, Will the novak be fast enough for me?:D My friend has a 15X2 in his Rustler, with bearings,and that was pretty fast, But I want alot faster.

[k_sw31]

Dont worry, you should be plenty faster, and if need be, you can run 7 cells. :)

[mj_bandit]

:).. OK.. I hope your rite, Because, I've wasted money getting brushed motors,and ESC's too many times... I shoulda gotta BL in the first place, I want it to be fast enough so I dont gotta up-grade down the road.. Now I gotta find a site that has the Novak hella cheap.:(

[dizzy]

I just got a Novak SS setup, and was wondering what the difference was between the SS standard and SS High programs were. Their site says the "high" mode has higher minimum braking... I have no idea what that means. How do I choose which one to use? Please enlighten me.

Thnx...

-David

[Mr. Constructor]

OK, here is a Spy pic of the new (not yet released Jeti/Hacker Car Master Sport (a Comp. Version will be available too))

The Paper dummy stands for the real size of the "old" Hacker Sport, the dots or "minus" claim the size of the new Schulze esc the U Force 50/75 (also not yet released), so this might be a good comparison.

Watch these pics !!
Hehehe !!

[crono man]

Mr constructor
Thank you very much for those great pics!! one question tho did hacker refine the electronics(less cogging etc..)?

Optimaman
When you used the 5t 1920 motor in your xxxs did you get belt skippage?

dizzy
standard ss is the same as the unlimted ss but with "weaker breaks"

hope this helps

[k_sw31]

Mr. Constructor, thanks for the spy pics! I am glad I haven't scooped up the cash for a hacker yet, I'll just wait for that one! :)

Like crono man asked, is the electronics/software package any different than the old series, or just more compact?

Oh, and when can we expect it in the US?

Thanks!

[OptimaMan]

Cronoman: I had to adjust the belt tension so that it would not skip. However, under max braking, it still will skip a few times. This is the bad thing about belts. To run at optimum efficiency, it has to be slighly loose, however, when it's slightly loose, you'll destroy the belt in 1 run especially on high traction carpet tracks.

I was thinking of possibly selling my XXX-S graphite + and getting a TC-3 which I believe has slightly less drag in the drivetrain. I doubt I'd even gain 1/2 mph, but psychologically, I feel better when I know I have the most efficient drivetrain.

Today I hooked up the Shulze 12.97 fwe with the 1920 5 turn motor. Running with BEC, I have absolutely no cogging or trouble. The Micro 1895 needs to be run with a receiver pack or else it'll cog like crazy even though I supposedly have the new one with anti-cog software. It ran flawlessly. When geared 27/90, it was FAST, but it drained the 3300's in a matter of a couple of minutes (4 minutes?), but with 17/90 gearing, it was absolutely mad! Sure, top speed was only about 30 mph, but the acceleration was crazy and the brakes - impossible! You can actually see all 4 foam tires just about lock up and the car stops like it has anti-lock brakes (well, theoretically, it does). It ran back and forth for a good 8 minutes and I think this is what I'm going to be racing with. Only problem is that under massive acceleration, the car has such massive weight transfer that I get absolutely NO steering under acceleration.

I'm getting rid of the Hacker B50 8 turn motor on ebay right now. I have no use for that motor. It is a nice mild motor (probably equivalent to a 12-14 turn motor) and it is good for 2wd buggies and trucks, but after having unlimited power, I'll probably never use that motor.

-OptimaMan

p.s. Anybody still have any suggestions on how to test my motors for max power?

[2ffu]

back in buisness

[dizzy]

Originally posted by crono man

dizzy
standard ss is the same as the unlimted ss but with "weaker breaks"

hope this helps

Obviously I'm fairly new at this, but why would you want weaker breaks? What do people normally run, or is it totally dependant on the track? I have yet to drive the car, but hopefully will next weekend. I guess I'll try both modes and see what suits me...

Thanks

-David

[crono man]

Originally posted by dizzy
Obviously I'm fairly new at this, but why would you want weaker breaks? What do people normally run, or is it totally dependant on the track? I have yet to drive the car, but hopefully will next weekend. I guess I'll try both modes and see what suits me...

Thanks

-David

slippery and high speed tracks were only a little amount of brakes is needed(avoids car from doing a 180) as you will figure out the novaks brakes are quite strong in the unlimited mode.

[2ffu]

well i just finished rebuilding a 33 pack. it was dark so i set up about 10 flashlights in my back yard 11pm bash session. it is cool i got the cat about 5 feet in the air no problame. bfore a 2 foot hight air would enilate the arms. not any more!:

[yf22k]

Originally posted by OptimaMan
yf22k:

No matter how high the RPM, the 15 series motor is never going to beat the 1920 5 turn motor. Just not in the same game when it comes to torque. The 1520 or 1525 is most similar to a Hacker b40 series motor. The 1515 is even shorter than a Hacker b 40 series. The torque is lower simply because the rotors have smaller diameter.

If you want the most powerful motor for 6 cell use in a 1/10 vehicle, the 1920 is it. Just make sure you have the car and controller that can handle it.

The only concern I have with Lehner motors in general for off-road use is that their screw holes are real short so you have to be careful to protect the motor from getting hit from behind and stuff like that. The Hacker motors have LONG screw holes - like 6 mm so it's better suited for off-road 2wd buggies and trucks. I don't recommend the B50 series motors unless you plan on running more than 8 cells. With 6 cells, they are just too heavy and not running in their powerband or something. BTW, I did have a B50 6 turn which was supposed to run like 6000 rpm/volt but it was crap - slower than a basic 5300!!!!

The Micro series controllers from Lehner aren't so great. I spent like 300 bucks for a 1895 with heatsink and all and it cogs, and stuff. So far, my best controller has been the Schulze 12.97fwe. I've had the Hacker Master Sport controller and it worked great (no cogging etc.) but it overheated easily when geared really hard. I'm sure the Competition model is awesome. I think I'm gonna get that next when my Schulze or Micro die on me.

-OptimaMan

Thanks OptimaMan. I think i'm going to save up for a 1920/5 and another schulze controller. Right now i'm running a 18.61 wiht my basic 5300. Yeah i didn't have a great experience with lehner controllers either. I had a warrior 7018 and it had a delayed throttle and the brakes weren't great either. The 18.61 was like a night and day difference. What schulze controller would you recommend for the 1920?

Also where can i buy these? rumrunners sells teh motor but doesnt' have the controller. plus they definetly aren't reliable when responding to e-mails and such.

Thanks

[Mr. Constructor]

News on the Hacker/Jeti ESC:

the tech datas (might be changed till it comes on the market !!)
100 A in the sport version
limiter could be set to 40 60 80 and Unlimited Amps
very low int. resistance (0.0012 that is low for a 3P Controller)
everything is splashwater proofed maybe totally waterproofed (has to be tested out !!)
setting is very easy, as it was everytime.
the housing is complete aluminium, the esc is then set in from the back, then filled with silicon (or similar material)
the other settings:
4, 8 , 19 Khz, timing from 0-30 ° (in 4 steps)
brake or brake AND reverse selectable
cells: from 5-10 !!
The cogging depends on the setting of the timing, in my optimum setting, it is possible to flip the neutral trim a little (only 3-4 steps on my MPX 707) and the car acclerates at very low speed, without any cogging !!!
The cogging is gone, a really great benefit !! (but the final testings will be held this morning, i will put it in my Car, and see where the difference between this ESC and the Warrior 7018 is !!
(first bench test impression: the start up with the Hacker is smoother than on some of my Kontronik or Schulze esc´s esp. better than the Warrior wich IS weak in this point !!)
OK, i will keep you informed, but the date of availablity is not cleared up, in Germany it might be around the next 2-3 Months ready for x-mas, in the US, not imaginable, maybe the same time, maybe 2 months later, depends greatly on the volume they produce for both markets !!
(but as i hear a date, i will post it here)

I have a closer view of this esc, enjoy it !!

[2ffu]

wow now i remember why i went from nitro to electric........Brushless rules.

Mr. Constructor- i am glad to see a good brushless controller in a smaller package. will we use the same c40 / 50 motors or is hacker making new motors now???

[k_sw31]

Thanks mr. Constructor!!!

Do you have any idea why it is only rated 5-10 cells though? The previous sport was rated at up to 16 cells. I do like the higher amp rating though, and it looks like the resistence is 1/4 of the old controllers!

Also, do you have any idea of what it will cost? Will it be around the prices of the previous controllers?

[Mr. Constructor]

One really revolution :

NO COGGING, i tested the esc around 1 1/2 hours today, some different setting combinations, generally heat test, and so on, the first thing i found after this first test was that one setting really allows my Car to acclerate at VERY VERY low speeds AND has enough power to start with a totally pulled trigger !!
(tomorrow i will test it in my 8th Titanium Buggy, the first Pre-tests showed a very agressive accleration, even on 6 cells (i cannot test the buggy fully, as the esc is only rated to 10 Cells max. my 8ths need 12 cells (might become a standart isn´t it, power is more than enough, and it is cheap too, everyone has two packs !!)

Then it will go in that chassisbelow for some on road testing (sorry little bit dark!! and motor is missing):
(maybe i will test it in my Serpent 10th Car (wich was driven by a Kontronik esc??)

As my informations say, there will be no really entirely new Hacker Motor line, they do have a Motor for every application, why change a excellent product ??
As for the Price, i cannot say anything to that, i will stay in contact with the manufacturer, to tell him my testing results, maybe he will answer me this too !!

[yf22k]

woah that's a nice upper deck. looks like it's raised though unless you only use rwd now. I'm thinking about popping the 1920 in my 3 racing 201 chassi whenever i get money to buy the new brushless

[dizzy]

Originally posted by crono man
slippery and high speed tracks were only a little amount of brakes is needed(avoids car from doing a 180) as you will figure out the novaks brakes are quite strong in the unlimited mode.

Thanks. I'm not so hot yet in the driver skills area, so I'll be leaving it on "slow" mode for a while... although curiosity will get the best of me and I'm sure I'll end up trying unlimited before I can control the thing :eek: :D

-David

[OptimaMan]

yf22k: I got the motor from Rumrunners and it took about 3 months because I got them with 1/8 inch or 3.17 mm shafts. The Schulze 12.97 is a great controller, but if you plan on doing carpet racing with a sedan, it has a tendency to overheat and shut down in the middle of a race with this motor and Hacker c40 6 turn motor unless geared really low. The controller I got from finedesignrc.com.

I'm still looking for the ultimate controller - one that would never shut down no matter how much acceleration and heat. The Hacker Master Sport had a slight delay (not cogging) at start, the Lehner Micro definitely cogs and needs a receiver pack, the Schulze is awesome in everyway except it overheats and shuts down when overgeared with really hot motors. Sigh... I can't wait until I get my hands on one of those new smaller Hacker controllers - I'm going to wait until they get the competition model though.

-OptimaMan

[OptimaMan]

Come to think of it, I think there is a better solution to all this. The amperage is what makes the controllers overheat. I think we will all be better off if we use 12 volts packs and use higher wind motors/shorter gearing. This way, the controller will see less amp draw and prevent overheating. I was at the LHS and they had these lithium batteries that supposedly are about 12 volts and 2100 mah... and could safely give out 20 amps. If I got 2 or 3 of these and put them in parallel, I can have a car with 4200 or 6300 mah at 12 volts and still be LIGHTER than a 3300 pack!!!! Hmmmm.... next experiment???

-OptimaMan

[yf22k]

Thanks OptimaMan. i'd be willing to wait that long for the right shaft size. I think i'll try the 12.97 controller. I like schulze's controllers except for the fact that they're long and have wires coming out of different sides. I just wish they were a little shorter and had teh wires coming out of the same side. Oh well I still have a while before i have enough money saved up.

[yf22k]

Originally posted by OptimaMan
Come to think of it, I think there is a better solution to all this. The amperage is what makes the controllers overheat. I think we will all be better off if we use 12 volts packs and use higher wind motors/shorter gearing. This way, the controller will see less amp draw and prevent overheating. I was at the LHS and they had these lithium batteries that supposedly are about 12 volts and 2100 mah... and could safely give out 20 amps. If I got 2 or 3 of these and put them in parallel, I can have a car with 4200 or 6300 mah at 12 volts and still be LIGHTER than a 3300 pack!!!! Hmmmm.... next experiment???

-OptimaMan

Don't ever post anything like that again! j/k I was thinking lipoly's last year but decided not to cause they're expensive. I'm not sure what amp draw i'm pullin and what they can handle. They're used a lot in r/c heli's. Very expensive though. Now you have me intrigued again!

[Bob Ebophalus]

if you do build the lipoly pack, be very careful when charging it. they have been known to explode.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140641&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

[yf22k]

yikes!

[2ffu]

i have found that the novak is not suited for hardcaor off roading. they said to gear it 7.4:1. i tried 8:1 and now i am happy at 8.9:1 it is even faster now because the motor has a gear ratio that it can turn. acelleration it much better. i think novak should up the ratio to about 8.5 for off road. on road my car acellerated very quikly even with a 6.5 ratio. so i think they need to have different ratios for different senarios (sp?);)

[crono man]

Hey dudes

Im thinking starting Drag racing,any suggestion on bl systems here are the criterias
-smooth throtle of the controller is really not necessary
-motor must be able to handle 8cells min
-a decent rpm/volt
-really really cheap$$:D

[2ffu]

good power does not come cheap;)

[CAMRY17]

I am converting a x factor to twin motor electic as I cannot get the Emax or TXT1 where I am and intend to use the NovakSS systems x 2 run through a y harness. I would go Hacker but am unable to get them either so am working with what I have.

Can anyone advise if these are stong enough for a heavy monster truck like the x factor.

Cheers

[crono man]

Originally posted by CAMRY17
I am converting a x factor to twin motor electic as I cannot get the Emax or TXT1 where I am and intend to use the NovakSS systems x 2 run through a y harness. I would go Hacker but am unable to get them either so am working with what I have.

Can anyone advise if these are stong enough for a heavy monster truck like the x factor.

Cheers

I would STRONGLY suggest waiting for the HV novak bl system its supposed to come out very soon,the novak ss is a great system but i woulndt use it for MT.

[CharlieS]

Please Note: There are some updates to the gearing recomendations Novak gives for the Super Sport. You can find complete details with a gear chart, in the Product Information Update Section of www.teamnovak.com

Thanks
Charlie

[NIC]

To OptimaMan:

I think you are on the right track when you say more cells/ more winds.
Have you seen or read about the FAUP cells ?
Miha use them in his fast boats and I use them in my 10th sedan.
They are 1950 mAh and the same lenght as regular sub c:s but they are smaller in diameter and weighs less.
8 cells takes up roughly the same space as 6 GP:s, only 5 mm longer when mounted side by side. And the weight of them is 39 grams compare to 63 grams for the GP:s.

The voltage is as high or even higher then the GP:s and you will have no problem making the runtime with them.

Another advantage with them is that the CG is lowered abit due to their smaller diameter.

I think that the litium cells aren´t ready yet for cars. Untill they are my vote is for the FAUP:s, toghether with BL offcoare.

My next car/power-soarse will be the HPI Pro4 with 8 FAUP:s and a Hacker B40 9-11S (haven´t desided yet on the wind) for use on a tight indoor carpet-track. The car will have some drivable speeds similar to the hottest brushed modifieds but with superior handling because of it´s more centralized weight ( the smaller diameter Hacker can be moved closer to the centershaft ) and overall lighter weight.

To all:

It feels like the powersoarse for 10th sedan overall really has come to an intersection now.
Wich way are the sport headed ?
More powerful brushed motors and highercapacity heavier cells ?
I hope the "big-boys" in the sport talks this over.
The brushed motors are getting "hard" to live with now with high tempetures and recutting all the time. They are getting near their limit.
We will see improvments though with brushed motors in the future but they still have "frictionparts" that must be taken care off.
We could see 4 or 5 turn motors with 4000 mAh cells in the future but it doesn´t feel like it´s the right way to go when their are better sollutions already out there.

I wonder were that guy John Sheridan has gone, he had some good points.

Anyways, I know on wich side I´m on in this debate ;)

By the way, my lightened version of my Kanai is almost done.

I let you all know how my cars perform.

Thanks !

NIC

[DualBL]

when I run my car w/ b50 on 16 cells, I can't even get it up to 5mph w/ out it spinning
and I'm REALLY smooth
I even set the throttle to only give it enough power to reach 20mph max
w/ all the cells, I added WHITE springs (40lb)
think those are too strong?
any other setup tips? (toe/camber) ?
:confused:

[chasmo]

can someone help me with what size the bearings are in a c40 also how do you take the motor apart

[mj_bandit]

What are these new BL's by Novak? Im debating whether to get the SS,but now theres new ones. Should I get the BL, or a new TV?:( :( :( :(

[crono man]

NIC¸

IF brushed is meant to survive the next 5 years their going have to overhall the entire design i mean like 5 segements large coms and rotors for increased motor life other then that if brushed motors stay the way they are right now and ly-poly cells become the norm then the standard 3segment brushed motor is doomed!

IMO the real bl revolution will start with novaks "pro" version bl system because of the following points
-very fast
-smooth
-small esc
-cheap for a bl system$

Yes alot of bl setups have one or two of those specs but only the novak can claim they will have them all

just my 0.02$

[mooey1232003]

Can i use a schulze 18.61 with a hacker c40?

[DualBL]

yes

[xray]

So which BL is the future? Sensorless designs?
Or is Novak going to push the market with their BL?

What happened to Orion, their BL motor was the closest to a legal motor by ROAR rules.

[crono man]

Originally posted by xray
So which BL is the future? Sensorless designs?
Or is Novak going to push the market with their BL?

What happened to Orion, their BL motor was the closest to a legal motor by ROAR rules.

IMO Sensored will be the Bl of the near future for racing were 6cell is the limit(im saying "near" because sensoless is moving very fast)but DONT expect quantum sized controllers in the near future because theres more power flowing thru a BL controller then a brushed esc and you need a certain size to be able handle that current.

As for the orion apperently they are repacking the ESC case...
I dont know whats happening with BL orion maybe they put it off so it wont hurt their V2 launch!?:confused:

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by xray
So which BL is the future? Sensorless designs?
Or is Novak going to push the market with their BL?

What happened to Orion, their BL motor was the closest to a legal motor by ROAR rules.

For now, I think sensored motors will take over the market, with novak putting out various systems. However, there are advantages of sensorless systems, I'm sure eventially, they will be the big cheese. Its just a matter of time before they develope the hard ware to make it acceptable to most racers.

[NIC]

When I saw what cronoman said about Orions delayed launch of their bl-equipment maybe because of their launch of their V2-brushed motor, I come to think of a story that I heard from the past.

"There was a guy in the 60:s I think it was, who invented a generator that was indestructable. It just coulden´t break or even fail :eek:. When a well known company heard about his invention they contacted the guy and gave him a huge amount of money for his invention and then terminated the hole project, because it would hurt their buisness too much :eek:".

I don´t know if it is a true story but that is irrelevant I think, because things like that can really be happening today also.

What if someone made a fully functional full-scale carengine with the same driveability and performance as a regular one but it ran on water instead ? Would he be aloud to start produce it or would the few men who controll the worlds oil or some electric-company stop him ?
We all know that the oil isn´t gonna last forever.

Just an example, but my point is when someone makes a "TOO GOOD" invention that invloves too big changes, money and lost jobs they maybe are silicened just because of that.

Anyway, my future in RC will just include brushless-motors, no more brushed motors or nitro engines for me.
If I don´t get a chance to drive with them at a world championship I will just race at club level. A worldchampionship title or a clubtitle for me doesn´t matter, I will injoy the sport as much anyhow regardless if I happens to be the worldchampion or the fastest guy in my town around the track.
As long as there is a better and easier way to injoy this sport I will stick to that.

Thanks !

NIC

[OptimaMan]

Hey guys, what happened to rumrunners? They don't got Lehners no more? I was going to order a 1920 8 turn...

-OptimaMan

[mooey1232003]

What is the controllers that i can use with the hacker c40?can i use a L-160-RC with a c40?:p

[k_sw31]

Your options would probably be the schulze and hacker line of controllers. You couldn't use the aveox controller, it needs a sensored motor to operate properly.

[mooey1232003]

can i use a HackerMaster-70-3P with a c40 and will i have reverse if i can use it with the c40?

[DualBL]

moo, just get a hacker master car sport non-opto
best controller for price.

[mooey1232003]

I only have $160 for the controller

[k_sw31]

I think that controller is ment for a boat, except for the two new hacker master sport and comp models, all the other master series conrtollers have no brakes!

Just save up another 40$ for a hacker master sport.

[Mr. Constructor]

I have some more facts on the new Jeti/Hacker ESC:

it will be:
5-10 cells (the "older" versions should be in the selling too, as the "high-end" variation of these ESC´s)
more than 80 A (100 A should be enough for EVERYTHING)
setup:
Fwd, brake or Fwd brake, reverse,
4 timing options (same as the "old" series)
BUT now: the frequenzy was lowered from 8/16/32 Khz (in the "older" ones) to a 4/8/16 setup in the new ones, that WAS a benefit, the 4 Khz mode is ideal for some good power accl. with MT´s, this setup really produces more punch than the others, i´ve tested it in 4 toally different Cars (10th truck, 8th buggy, 10th serpent, 10th F 201 Chassis) and with various Motors, it IS selectable in every area, you´ll be really able to set it up to EVERY Motor/Car combination, that is great, none of the others does all of my setups !!
(the 2 Torcman Cars are really the point for all esc´s, as only the Jeti ones (a Comp. and the new one where tested) can handle these Motors, they´re really great, as they ´re LRK Motors, and do NOT need any trannys any more, a really good benefit, but the motor has to be the best fit to the car, no pinions/gearings changeable !!

As far as my tests report: the new esc is really good for 10th cars all over, the settings are somtimes really WITHOUT Cog (depends greatly on the other parts) for 8th they might not be THAT big choice, as they only go up to 10 cells, it is way easier to use 2packs than use some special ones only for this Car.

Overall, the best so far esc I´ve tested, the smoothness, is a thing better than the "old" Comp. ESC but in one case, my Kontronik ESC really topped that too, in my serpent, there it was the best solution, in all other ways, the jeti outmached the "original" esc´s that stay in these Cars !!

I do not have any answer yet from Jeti, so there is no price in the room, but i will suggest, it will be around, little less than the Sport version, but with all the benefits it even will be a good chioce !!

[rustymccoy]

i run the novak in my custom rusty. i was at a race this weekend and put my first pack in for the day. i ran fine for about 5 min then it started messing up. when i turn it on it sits there fine untill i hit the throtte or move the wheels by hand then it seems as if the controler cant find the posistion of the motor and starts jerking back and forth and gets real hot real fast. ive tried it with 3 differant radios and reciver and it still does this crazy dance. any ideas? or pretty much send it in?

[mooey1232003]

I am going to save up a nd get the c40 and the hacker master car sport.

[Mr. Constructor]

To rustymccoy :

sounds as if one of the 3 wires to the motor is shortened with one of the others (2 of them might have contact??) or that one of the wire is loosen up, check the solders, maybe there is a worn one !!
(if none of these apply, try another setup, one that lets more AMP to the Motor, if nothing worked, the power circuit on the esc is damaged and should be send in, you´re not the first one that has had this breakdown, seems to be that novak maybe has sold some charges of their production, that is easily to damage, hopefully not the esc itself in ALL packages, (could be real, a construction error is not that far away, every big manufacturer has that from time to time, hopefully Novak will replace your esc, but that should be OK, their service is OK in the states, outside, that´s another story . . . . .

sorry no better reply !!!

(as for some greater power, go with the Hacker Master series, even the sport has enough power for most applications)

To mooey1232003 :

Good idea with the C 40, these are really excellent Car motors, but you might overthink your "Sport" decision, depends on how many cells you wanna use in wich Car, with 6 in every Car OK, but if it is higher, the circuit board tends to get worn, use the Comp. it has TWICE the power, it uses 2 boards !!
(OK money shredding is even higher, but it is the best thing for now !!)
Maybe the new Schulze U Force 75 will be better, but is will be priced around 300 USD i think !!

(or wait for the water proofed new esc from Hacker/Jeti (watch pics the last few pages.

[crono man]

Originally posted by rustymccoy
i run the novak in my custom rusty. i was at a race this weekend and put my first pack in for the day. i ran fine for about 5 min then it started messing up. when i turn it on it sits there fine untill i hit the throtte or move the wheels by hand then it seems as if the controler cant find the posistion of the motor and starts jerking back and forth and gets real hot real fast. ive tried it with 3 differant radios and reciver and it still does this crazy dance. any ideas? or pretty much send it in?

check to the small sensor wires that plug into the ESC they might have come loose just push back in.

[lonepalm4]

Yes, try checking the sensor wires where they plug into the controller. You might need to pull them out and pinch them down a bit so they fit snugly on the pins on the controller. Also for those wondering, the ss works great on 4 cells with a 12th scale. Even faster with 6. Sawwweeeet.

[NitroBoy24]

ok,
Ive known about brushless motors for a while but really havent wanted to know about them until tonight...Anyways I either want to get a TC3 or A T3 and go brushless. I want to be able to hit like 40+ mph, have decent run times (for a brushless that is), not spend a fortune but still have something reliable, etc. I was attempting to search throught this thread but its not easy going through like 150 pages on gayyy 56k :D.

What motor and esc would you reccomend for a TC3 that I wanna bash and drift with :D or a T3 which Id offroad and wheely with :D. 40+ mph would be excellent and on 6 cells. Also what would an "average" run time be w/whatever bl would work best in the two cars above be around? This is with probablly 6-7 cells. When I say "average" I mean not running wide open or 10 mph the whole time for a run time...Sorry if Im not clear buts it s hard to put into words :p. I dono TC3 or B3 (unless ae comes out w/an inexpensive B4 rtr which wont happen and a bl w/those longgg a** a-arms wouldnt mix to well ;) ). I would go to hackers web site but theyre down and the other sites Ive been to suck :rolleyes:. Oh yeah and if possible I wanna be under around $325ish. Dono if my parents want me to dump THAT much into rc for an engine and esc :D.

Sorry about the long post but no one has answered my latest one so I figured Id consent w/the brushless experts ;). Thx
Nitroboy

[tntpower]

rustymccoy i run the novak in my custom rusty. i was at a race this weekend and put my first pack in for the day. i ran fine for about 5 min then it started messing up. when i turn it on it sits there fine untill i hit the throtte or move the wheels by hand then it seems as if the controler cant find the posistion of the motor and starts jerking back and forth and gets real hot real fast. ive tried it with 3 differant radios and reciver and it still does this crazy dance. any ideas? or pretty much send it in?


I have the same problem but my system is brand new I use it only 4 minutes then it stop.It did exactly the same problem as Rustymccoy said.I call Novak they tell me to send it.

[Mr. Constructor]

hmmm, sounds as if you´re only wanna use it for 6 cell, that is really good, if you wanna stuck to a 10T (normal) Motor Power, then go with the Novak SS System, as for better speed, use the Hacker B 40 7S (around 6100 RPM/Volt) light and around 300 W, very good Motors, but not THAT huge power from the ground, or use a LMT 1525 6 T ((around 5700 RPM/Volt) similar to the Hacker) .
If greater power (up to 12 cells , maybe in a future-to-come 8th buggy) then go with a LMT 1920 (5-6Turns will be around 5200 - 6300 RPM/Volt)
or use a Hacker B 50 S Version (with 6 Turns around 6200 RPM/Volt)

or even go with the C 40 Series, better for Car, but not that great advantage over the B 50 series depends on money and driving.

Prices will vary between 140 USD for the Hacker B 40/LMT 1525 and up to near by 200 USD for the bigger ones, the esc´s are rated at 200 USD for the Hacker Sport ESC, then around 170 for the really good Schulze 1246 and 230 and up for the Schulze 1297 or Hacker Comp. Model, for easy use and a little more cogg from the ground, use the MUCH cheaper LMT warrior 7018 BEC.

As for your Car:

ESC: Warrior 7018 BEC
Motor: Small: Hacker B 40 6or 7 S
Motor: Big: Hacker B 50 6S

these combo´s will work great, they really do have enough power, even the smaller one !! (i do use ONLY the smaller ones in my 10th cars, the bigger ones are only for my 8ths and up ) !!

the package will be around 250-270 for the smaller and around 350 for the bigger Version, oh, i forgot the Basic line, only the 5300er Motor is the way to go, maybe the new XL series (better torque) with similar RPM´s, but the small Hacker B 40 S produces enough power for light 10th cars, the brutral power of the bigger ones is not needed, if geared and dialed in right !!

Hopefully this helped you out !!
(watch pic for the smaller motor in a 10th truck)

[k_sw31]

I would say the setup of choice for you would be a hacker master sport and a basic 5300.

With the basic 5300, it gets my T3 a hair over 40 mph, geared less than a stock motor. I'm sure you could go even faster in your tc3. :)

[rustymccoy]

Originally posted by tntpower
I have the same problem but my system is brand new I use it only 4 minutes then it stop.It did exactly the same problem as Rustymccoy said.I call Novak they tell me to send it.

when you sent it in did they just replace it? did it cost more then the $79 it says on their site (no including shipping)?

[Mr. Constructor]

OK, now I do understand all your creaping over the cogg and loss of power even at 12 cells with the Hacker esc´s !!
I was testing my new Kanai 2 , and the motor was AWESOME, sounds like a small F 1 (little bit like a turbine !!)
great thing overall, NO cogging, even with the "older" Hacker esc´s.
but after a few min (around 1-2) the Car only drives a way i was not giving him !!
(the voltage dropped that "much", the Hacker was not able to use it for the BEC, that was BAD, really ALLLLLLL my other esc´s will produce BEC till the end, even with 6 cells, and safe !!!

So i grabbed my Li Ion Battery for my 6th Buggy out, put it in this Car for the receiver and servo only, yep that was it, the car could "fly" around 8 min with the rest of the pack´s, so the Hacker´s will EVER need a receiver pack, to be safe, my Car was running over 45 Mph, i really should not think over a loss of control during this speed, and then a 3.3 Kg full titanium Car . . . . ouch, that might destroy several things !!!

So take a look at your receiver, if it is able to handle a Voltage of 7.2 V (in the synthesiser receivers from Graupner/Jr for exsample) you could easily use the Li Ion battery for receiver pack, that has good power (due to the extra 1.3 V under load, it will take up to 2.5 A with ease. only the smaller ones (smaller than 700 maH will take only 1.5 A)

Some great info´s on all types of batterys and the mystic of Li Ion and Li polymer (Li ion really is better !!)
go for:www.buchmann.ca/chap2-page2.asp and check the datas, it is really agood site, esp. the charging tips from the iindustry are great !!
(my Car gets a new 7.4 V / 600 maH Pack as soon as possible!!the other one is too big with 1200 maH)

[Mr. Constructor]

Another very good link, from anyo batterys, EVERY kind of battery, most of them available (after asking) in most shops like PC or Electronic Shops (mobile phones ??)

www.sanyo.com/batteries/specs.cfm

(you could search for several battery types, might be helpful for newer Projects, esp. the discharge and Charge rate tables when you click the lined type reading (acrobat is needed )
For me it was very good to see that NIC´s Faup cells are already available as NiMH Types, that should be great !!

[NitroBoy24]

Does anyone know the top speed of the Novak Super Sport System?? If thats not the right name its a novak motor and esc for $235 on tower. Im hoping itll hit 40mph but Ive been searchin and found no luck. Is there a site someone knows about where theres the top-speeds of the brushless motors that have come out? Our someone that knows em off hand? Also what would the average run time be on the novak super sport system on an Epic 3000 6 cell?? Thx
nitroboy

[CAMRY17]

lonepalm4,

I have the Novak super sport in a TC3 & T3 and just started a custom 6 wheel drive monster truck with 2 x twin novaks stacks driving the wheels.

In answer to your question my TC3 will hit about 61mph on a long straight, but the t3 only does 43mph.

I have found it not as fast as a hacker system, but more reliable and less clogging at low speed especially as I use my t3 to complete in monster truck rock climbing ( the t3 is jacked up to the max and I have converted to 4wd with a shaft system).

They are a great choice for all round fun and performance.

CHEERS

[k_sw31]

Are you bs'ing us?!

First of all, I find it hard to beleive you can get a TC3 w/ a novak to do 60 mph....VERY hard to beleive.

Second of all, how have you converted your T3 over to a 4wd rock crawler?

How is it possible to give the T3 the proper suspention angle to make it an effective rock crawler, let alone convert it to 4wd?

Just curious.

[NitroBoy24]

Whats an average running time for a super sport system on a 6 cell 3000 pack? I think I wanna T3 or maybe an Evader brushless...Anyone heard of someone going brushless in an evader?? Seems like a decent truck but I might as well go the extra distance and get a T3 since itll have associated reliabilty.

[CAMRY17]

k_sw31,

WHY WOULD I bULLS**T YOU.

My TC3 has been clocked at the MPH as I said on a very long straight and with the crappiest gearing (no bottom end). We are talking about a drag strip here. So lots of time to spool up and make the speed.

And remember anything is possible even Evis can have 2 hit songs released and hit number 1 on the charts 20years after he's dead.

My hobby shop is a ex panelbeater/ motor mechanic and has a full machine shop. We make our own stuff such as the t3. Looked at the TC3 4wd buggy and used a cad to design it and made my own carbon chassis.

As I also stated I am looking at a 6wd monster truck running 4 hackers in 2 x 2 format (still in planning stages).

If i can make my own funny cars & railers for the RC drags(both nitro & electic which do 1.7-8 second passes over the rc quater I'm able to do this.

I love to tinker thats what RC is about.

[NitroBoy24]

Camry
What would you consider an average run time on your T3??
Thanx

[tntpower]

when you sent it in did they just replace it? did it cost more then the $79 it says on their site (no including shipping)?

My system is 3 days old and my lhs send it for me,I will have a new one at no cost.It's a bad unit and will be replace free of charge says my lhs.

[CAMRY17]

When my t3 was original it had the brushless and 10.88 gearing I think. Run time was between 9-15 miuntes depending on how aggressive I was with mashing the throttle with 3300 GP cells.

[k_sw31]

I still find it hard to beleive you hit 60 with a novak, what was your FDR, 1:1? ;) j/k

I'll take your word for it.

PS, As a fellow T3 owner I'd be delighted to see some pics of that 4x4 T3, I am curious how you did it. If you have any pics could you shoot em at k_sw31@hotmail.com?

Thanks.

[CAMRY17]

If i knew what a FDR is I'd answer it, but dont. This was a one off run if I was racing the tc3 on the track i'd get maybe 30-40mph.

If you saw the t3 you would not think it to be a t3. It is a total redesign, but using the shocks towers and rear arms with some tamyia & kyosha parts.

I'll send you some when I get a digital camera. I will say that against a emax & stock txt1 it did not make me look silly, it just needs it be more like a monster truck with the suspension.

[Mr. Constructor]

To CAMRY17 :

Nice thinking with the truck, have you any pics for now ??
my own 6 wheeler is a little old one, looks sweet even today, but will def. not have that Power, only driven by 2 " normal" 19x2 Motors, so i would be really interested in your project, feel free to email me some pics !!
So as for the FDR, he means the Final Drive Ratio, that you used to archieve these top speeds, as normally the Novak system isn´t THAT powerful, the Hacker and LMT´s are MUCH better, but even MUCH more expencive !!! (esp. the 8ths and up systems !!)

good luck with it, the mechanical problems will occur, the power is not easy to get on the street, without damaging too many gears !! (a gear set out of Titanium, that IS a neat thing . . . . ;-) )

[rustymccoy]

With my novaks in my rusty or pede and 3000 packs ill get 15-20 general bashing and 10-15 wot. im building up a 2 novak 4x4 carbon fiber basher that should be done in a week or two. ill let every one know how the run times are affected by having 2 bls to more the weight vs just one. plus ill have pics!

[OptimaMan]

Yo guys! Just got myself and E-Maxx and the first think I did was get the EVX and Titan motors out. Put 12 cells in series, cranked down the torque limiter, put a Lehner Basic 5300 with 12 tooth pinion on 66 tooth spur. In low gear, the thing was instantly flipping and before I ran 1/2 the pack, the spur gear melted off!!!

Same day, I get the 65 tooth metal spur gear and torque limiter made by Robinson Racing for the T-Maxx.

Next day, I was showing off reverse wheelies and the front drive shaft snaps at the joint... body posts broken, body cracked up already...

Now, about performance... I've never ran the stock Emaxx (took the motor and evx out before I ran it)... but man, it's insane! The Basic 5300 is running at it's redline and beyond!!! But, it screams down the street. At 2nd gear, I'd say the top speed is close to 40 mph with a 15 tooth pinion... I usually run it in first gear - the top speed is probably 30 mph - but it get's there in like 2 seconds - and I have to be VERY ginger with the throttle!!!

Now, the STEEL PINION GEAR is wearing out after only 3 runs!!!!!!!! Holy cow, who ever thought pinion gears would just grind away and need to be replaced every 10 runs!!!! Pictures will be coming soon....

Oh, with this setup and 12 cells at 3300 mah, the run time is probably less than 10 minutes of bashing. I'm thinking it might be better if I get a slower motor like the Basic 3100 XL, and running 14-18 cells and small pinion.... watch out...

Oh, one cool note, my Lehner Micro 1895 controller has a rev limiter - maybe 50,000 rpm or 65,000 rpm - not sure, but it hits it all the time in first gear and like a real car, it bounces off the rev limiter... and then I switch to 2nd gear and it never hits the rev limiter... but I'm probably doing 40 mph easily and the motor is SCREAMING.

BTW, I got an infrared temp gauage and the motor was running at 145 degrees F, batteries at 170 f, and the controller (with no fans) at 130 F.... not bad huh? I don't even think the Basic XL is needed for the Emaxx - my truck wheelies out of control all the time anyway. Oh, no cogging either with the 5 cell receiver pack.

-OptimaMan

[OptimaMan]

Yo guys! Just got myself and E-Maxx and the first think I did was get the EVX and Titan motors out. Put 12 cells in series, cranked down the torque limiter, put a Lehner Basic 5300 with 12 tooth pinion on 66 tooth spur. In low gear, the thing was instantly flipping and before I ran 1/2 the pack, the spur gear melted off!!!

Same day, I get the 65 tooth metal spur gear and torque limiter made by Robinson Racing for the T-Maxx.

Next day, I was showing off reverse wheelies and the front drive shaft snaps at the joint... body posts broken, body cracked up already...

Now, about performance... I've never ran the stock Emaxx (took the motor and evx out before I ran it)... but man, it's insane! The Basic 5300 is running at it's redline and beyond!!! But, it screams down the street. At 2nd gear, I'd say the top speed is close to 40 mph with a 15 tooth pinion... I usually run it in first gear - the top speed is probably 30 mph - but it get's there in like 2 seconds - and I have to be VERY ginger with the throttle!!!

Now, the STEEL PINION GEAR is wearing out after only 3 runs!!!!!!!! Holy cow, who ever thought pinion gears would just grind away and need to be replaced every 10 runs!!!! Pictures will be coming soon....

Oh, with this setup and 12 cells at 3300 mah, the run time is probably less than 10 minutes of bashing. I'm thinking it might be better if I get a slower motor like the Basic 3100 XL, and running 14-18 cells and small pinion.... watch out...

Oh, one cool note, my Lehner Micro 1895 controller has a rev limiter - maybe 50,000 rpm or 65,000 rpm - not sure, but it hits it all the time in first gear and like a real car, it bounces off the rev limiter... and then I switch to 2nd gear and it never hits the rev limiter... but I'm probably doing 40 mph easily and the motor is SCREAMING.

BTW, I got an infrared temp gauage and the motor was running at 145 degrees F, batteries at 170 f, and the controller (with no fans) at 130 F.... not bad huh? I don't even think the Basic XL is needed for the Emaxx - my truck wheelies out of control all the time anyway. Oh, no cogging either with the 5 cell receiver pack.

-OptimaMan

[CAMRY17]

Mr. Constructor,

Thanks for the encouragement.

Lots of my mates have said I was stupid. Well I'll be the last one laughing when the project's finished.

I've made the chassis and topplate. I've checked out gearing and decided to rung smalled chevon types from the duratrax 2wd nitro truck.

Deciding on gearing and what type of spur gears is the problem as I am adapting a nitro 2 speed.

Let you know how it goes.

CHEERS

[TeamMishap]

I'm trying to decide if I want to add a Lehner or another Hacker motor to my RC arsenal. It'll most likely live in my Duratrax Evader.

The Lehner basic 4200 has 4200 rpm/v and I think around 12 in/oz of torque (I can't remember the exact number, RumRunner took down all their Lehner stuff.

The B50-8S has 4613 rpm/v, but I can't find anywhere where it lists the torque of this motor. Anyone know the torque numbers, or have experience with both motors to give an opinion?

[yf22k]

I'm thinking of using 12 cells with my lehner basic 5300/schulze 18.61 setup. Does anyone know if there is anythign i can use to limit the current so that i don't kill the motor. The max number of cells recommended for the 5300 is 10 cells.

Thanks,
Keith

[k_sw31]

I would say go for the basic, as far as I know, they are the most compact motor out there.

I would do the basic, just out of preferance because I am VERY pleased with my 5300. :)

[OptimaMan]

Hello guys... I've had a B508s motor and I also have the Lehner Basic 5300. I just got the Basic 4200, but since I no longer have the B508s, I can't do a direct comparison. I also used to have a B506s motor which is supposed to rev at 6150 rpm/volt while the Basic 5300 is obviously 5300. However, in real world performance, the Basic series beat the B50 series. For some reason, it spooled up quicker, was faster, and lighter. EVEN GEARED EXACTLY THE SAME, the 5300 was faster than the B506s!!!! In addition, the Basic series is RPM with load whereas the Hackers are measured with NO LOAD...

The Basic is a LOT better motor for 1/10 scale than B50 series. It's not an opinion, it's a fact!

The Basic 5300 will rev up really fast with 12 cells - but it's like 10,000 rpm over the limit (the motor's limit is 65000rpm) which means you should only be running like 12.2 volts (with load) which is equivalent to maybe 10-11 cells. I'm actually running the Basic 5300 with 12 cells and my controller limits the RPM. I think the max RPM of my controller is set at 50,000 rpm (guessing since the Lehner 19 series limit is 50,000 - it seems maybe they also designed the controller not to go above that to prevent blowing apart the magnet). Anyway, do it at your own risk and if the magnets blow, it's your fault. :)

Here's a pic of my new E-maxx!

[yf22k]

I know rpm is a danger of running with 12 cells but is current a factor as well? I'm just looking for a way to run 12 cells without killing my setup. If its just rpm that's a factor, i can probably turn down the throttle atv and change the throttle curve to make it smoother on my radio.

[RCmaniac324]

I agree with k_sw31 and OptimaMan...the Lehner Basic 5300 is an EXCELLENT motor. I have had mine for about two years with no problems. I love being able to run the motor this long with only the most basic of maintenance (IE, wiping dirt off case/the occasional bearing lube) and with the added benefits of BL technology...can't wait to get it up and running in my shiny new B4. :D :p Get the Basic 5300, you will be very happy with it.

Anyways, to answer your question yf22k, yes, RPM is the main danger of running with 12 cells on the 5300. Since the magnet is one-piece in design and can't shatter from RPMs, it is infact only the supporting bearings on each end of the shaft that determine the RPM limit of this motor. The theoretical danger of running over the bearing's limit it risking having a bearing come apart, resulting in catastrophic failure of the motor if running it at high speeds at the time it fails. However, I have NEVER heard of this happening, and have heard of success with 12 cell setups using this motor...just be wary that it will instantly void the warantee (sp?) when you run it with this many cells!

Also, current may be an issue, but only if you have a lower-end controller that has a relatively low Amp limit, but even then it is not likely to be a problem, since this motor does not draw an insane amount of amps like some others do

Hope this helps.:)

PS: OptimaMan- What size is that shrinkwrap on your controller in the pic, and where did you purchase it? I have been trying to find the right size to re-shrink my Lehner Warrior controller, but have been unsuccessful. Any help would be great. Thanx.

[yf22k]

thanks rcmaniac. I think i'll just limit the rpm by means of lowering my throttle atv. If i dont' get the full throttle range i won't hit those rpm's. I want to run it at around 9 or 10 cell but i dont' want to spend money on new solderless powertubes to fit these. I have 3 solderless power tubes filled with 3000mah nimh batteries. I'd like to run two in series and just limit the rpms.

So the 5300 can't really kill itself by maxing out on current draw just rpms. Just making sure i have this clear.

Thanks,
Keith

[OptimaMan]

yf22k: The 5300 is rated up to like 55 amps continuous. Of course... at that rate, 3300 batteries will drain in like 3.6 minutes!!! If you get less than 4 minutes of run time, then you should start worrying about the motor. However, most controllers can't handle that kind of current - my Micro 1895 with heatsink and all works fine with 12 cells, but the brakes fade after a couple of minutes. The Schulze 12.97 fwe is great, but sometimes thermals and shuts down for 5 seconds. Now, keep in mind these controllers are top notch controllers (approx $300+) so getting anything less with 12 cells and 5300, you'll run probably into controller problems.

Now, regarding the bearings failing... true, that happens, but 1 piece magnets do blow up too. When things start spinning fast, no matter how strong and "1 piece" they are, centripetal (sp?) force will blow it apart (mv^2/r) <-- that's the formula. So, the larger the motor, the lower the RPM max. That's why it's not so safe to run motors with rotors the size of the Basic series and 19 series faster than 65,000 or 50,000 rpm. Now, the Lehner 15 series has a much smaller radius rotor so they go up to 100,000 rpm. The Hacker B50 series is like the bigger Lehners so that's also limited to 50-65K rpm... however, the c40, even though I haven't seen "limits", I am guessing is probably closer to 100,000 rpm due to the small radius of the rotor.

Another way to make sure you don't blow your motor with 12 cells is to make sure it's not geared toooo low. If the motor has no load, it'll rev. Like I said in an earlier post, my E-maxx geared at a ratio of 1:30 just barely hits the rev limiter at 50,000 rpm (guessing the limit). In second gear, with a ratio of 1:20, it actually doesn't hit the rev limiter so I know it's running below 50,000 rpm. BTW, at 50,000 rpm and 1:30 ratio, the speed is 29 mph... so my Emaxx in first gear with 12 cells and 15 tooth pinion, 65 spur goes about 29 mph. Now, when I put a smaller pinion, like a 12 tooth, it hits the rev limit all the time.

If you reallly wanna know what motor is best for what use, you'll have to do some calculations. First of all, you have to know your application. What kind of car, boat, plane, etc... Next, you have to know what voltage you'll be running in, what time of run time do you want? And how fast do you want to be going. Getting all these figures, you have to specifically find a motor with the right Kv, resistance, free load current, etc. Then you plug all these into a formula (which I might one day post), and you can get the right motor for the right application and run the motor in it's powerband and at max efficiency. See, brushless motors are 80+ percent efficient, only if they are running at their most efficient amp draw. For example, the basic 5300 is most efficient running in the 40-50 amp draw range!!! So, it's really only good for 4-6 minute races. Otherwise, running the motor at less efficiency, you're actually just wasting energy. If you really want like 10 minute runs of really good racing with brushless, you are better off getting like a 3000 rpm/volt motor and craking the voltage up to 12 to 18 cells and gearing kind of low. Those motors have max efficiency around 20-30 amp range, but because of lower KV are better off with higher voltages (also, higher voltage, less current is easier for the controllers).

That's why my next project is to go to a motor with like 3000 rpm/volt and putting 18 cells or just simply going to 22 volt lithium poly packs and gearing real low. This way, the current draw is a lot lower, but actual power output is the same! power = amp x volts.

Traditional thinking is to run RC cars with 7.2 volts or 8.4 volts. That's fine and dandy for the "old" cars. With new technology, it's more efficient and better (in my opinion) to run much higher voltages and lower current to get the same power output. You don't even need to use 12 guage wiring because instead of pulling 50 amps, we'll only be using like 15 amps (example). So, instead of having 7.2 volts at 3,300 mah, we can use like 20 volts packs at 1,200 mah and have the same amount of power at higher efficiencies and less heat build-up in the wires and controllers. Anyway, I'm going off at a tangent...

When I have more time, one day, I'll post a bunch of formulas for you guys.

-OptimaMan

[OptimaMan]

RC Maniac,

it's just standard battery shrink wrap. I got rid of the old crusty one, and slid this one over and used a heat gun. I didn't cut out the square for the heatsink because my controller seems to barely run more than 130degrees F.

I'm sure your LHS can get it for you. If your controller does not have a heatsink, the battery shrink wrap might be too big.

After I do that, I servo tape the controller to the battery strap and I add another shrink wrap around the controller and battery strap to make sure the thing doesn't come off.

-OptimaMan

[NIC]

To OptimaMan:

Right on the money ! We should let the voltage stand for the rpm NOT low number of winds. And to let us do so we can´t use sub-c cells. The controllers takes to much abuse and build up to much heat. You see, even your 12.97 shuts off and I´m sure that is pissing you off. Payed alot of money for it and all.

The answer (like you said): More voltage. And that eliminates the sub-c:s in 1/10 cars, because of their weight and size. We can´t make room for more cells as it is now. Well.... we can, but the cars will handle worse.

So the answer for a short future (until litium-cells has catch up) to more voltage can be put in four letters: FAUP

B40 6L, 8 FAUP:s, 7,47:1, 1/10 sedan = 9 min runtime

Thanks !

NIC

[RCmaniac324]

Thanks OptimaMan...I have already tried that size, but I guess my Warrior controller is a lot thinner than your Micro, because it won't shrink tightly around the ends...it barely shrinks tight to the heatsink on it. Thanks anyway though...until I find something, I guess I'll have to stick with the crummy, two year old shrink. :(

On another note, does anyone have an idea of a ballpark Final Drive Ratio I should have on my 1/10 scale electric buggy running my Basic 5300 on 6 cells? I have it at about 7.5:1 right now, but I haven't gotten a chance to run it once, since the kit was missing a part :mad: , so I don't know how it runs with this gearing. Is this anywhere near where it should be? I don't want to go way overgeared on my first run and fry something...plus, I want to see it's full potential :D . Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[yf22k]

thanks optima man. I think I'll stick with 6 cells to protect my stuff.

[Mr. Constructor]

Do NOT use this Hard setting, 7.5 :1 is def. too low !!

use a starting point of 9:1, this is way better for 10th offroad, although it is a bit overgeared, but this will work with 6 cell and a warrior 7018 / BEC !!
(if anything is geting too hot (melted shrinkwrap around esc for exsample) then stop IMEDIATELY and gear lower (maybe 10:1 to be safe or even 12:1)

What Nic said, makes really sense, but normally a 6 cell pack delivers enough power for small lightweight 10th cars, never ever a 10th will go over 1.7 Kg, (only when too many metal parts are used AND no Maxxes !!)
So 6 cells are enough for driving, the esc´s will also function with these higher voltages (as Nic said: 8 cells) but the Motor is only best used with these 8 cells, and you still have to do the same than most flyers:
built many special packs, if you have many special Aircrafts, that IS going on the Money, so RC Cars are still good with this "Standard", costs are greatly reduced !!
(a normal 3300 GP is around 40 USD, and most other cells will easily go beyond !!
(but for speed projects, as Nic sone definetely is) the lightest cells are best choice !!

As for the shrinkwrap:

maybe try a local electrical shop, they use often some special shrinkwrap, maybe they could give you some inches !!

[BJMFH1.01]

I just bought some of those third generation Golden Peak "rainbow" colored batteries from Fine Design. These things are better than any other matched cell I've ever used. They don't get as hot and my runtime and speed are both increased.

On a side note, what is the max rpm limit of the B50 and 19 series BL motors? I know the 19 series is 50,000. But I could have swore that some people on this site were claiming it had a 100,000 rpm limit.

I'm looking for a BL motor with awesome torque and a high rpm limit (around 70,000 at least). Some time in the future I want to buy a BL rock climbing vehicle (Terra Crusher, modified Clod Buster).

[RCmaniac324]

Thanks Mr. Constructor. I'll try and run out to my LHS tomorrow to pick up a few extra pinions, and hopefully my parts will be in by the time I get there. :)

I hope to soon order 8 FAUP cells to make a high volt pack once I scrounge up a little more money...until then, I'm stuck only running 6.

[DualBL]

19 is 50k.
people tell me not to run more than 10 cells on my b50 8s, so you can figure out the rpms from that...

but I've been running my 8s on 16 cells for a while now, w/ out problem :o

[OptimaMan]

The B50 series according to Hacker's manual has a limit of "50,000 to 65,000 rpm". No specific number!!!! But, the motor being the same diameter as the 19 series Lehner, I would assume the same or similar RPM limit. The Lehner 19 series according to their web page is 50,000 rpm... while the 15 series limit is 100,000 rpm.

-OptimaMan

[Mr. Constructor]

I found on their German Homepage a "Drive" that they where using for a plane (WITH 6.7 : 1 lowering Gear for the Screw)

But Ok, here are the Datas: they used a b50 7s with 10-14 cells, that makes at 1.1 Volt under load per cell 15.4 V, multiplied by the rpm (data sheet: 5270 RPM/V = 81185 RPM (no load, under load lower)
so the B50 is really usable up to 65000 RPM, but as for safety reasons, i will not exceed this, be warned, some magnets might loosen up and ruining your motor, so do not exceed the 65K RPM, that IS enough for every application, a normal Gas engine goes only up 44000 RPM, that is OK, to have around 47 % more RPM !!

[vad]

Im seriously considering setting up an 1/8 scale buggy with a Brushless set up. I have considered the C50 w/ master competition car controller w/ BEC , but after reading several post here, the C50 might not be the best bet.

The purpose of building the brushless 1/8 is for racing only and some fun runs in the neighborhood, where gas would not be allowed.

I race 1/8 scale buggies on small dirt tracks and a onroad track, The guys are slightly flexable to the rule, dont think they would mind mixing it up with an electric 1/8.

Race times can run from 5 mins to 15 mins. Need some type of set up which will keep up with .21 nitro engs like the Rex p5, OS VZ-B. Top speed isnt a factor, I just need good mid to low end (guess that can be adjusted through the Pinion gear).

I will be running 12 cells only.

Any suggestions.....?

[vad]

Found out some very good info from Chris at Fine design, He makes an adaptor for the 1/8 scale buggies, its a universal eng mount adaptor which can be mounted on 1/8 scale buggies center diff mount's rear bulk head. He knows a company who makes pinions which directly mesh up to the center spur gear. Best thing is Chris has already tested the motor and speedo out at the track and found some very good set ups.

Once I receive the unit from Chris I will keep giving updates as to my progress for my personal set up on the nitro conversion to electirc... Wow never thougth I would want to go from nitro to electric.....

[k_sw31]

Vad- Sounds sweet, keep us updated! :)

Hey, I am thinking of ordering a new hacker tonight.

Since stormerhobbies does not have the sport in stock, I am considering ordering the master competition, to use with my basic.

Does (Directed and Mr. Contructor) anyone know if I should just go with the hacker master competition or wait for the new, smaller sport version?

I'd like to order tonight...

[k_sw31]

Meh, I just ordered a Hacker Master Competition. Luckily my dad agreed to pay the 60$ difference between that and the sport. :)

I ordered it from stormerhobbies, btw.

[Mr. Constructor]

To k_sw31:

I think you´ve done the right thing, this esc really is very nimble when it has to take really HARD Amp and cell flow (means power up to 1000 W isn´t a Problem!!)
as for the smaller New version a release date hasn´t been told even for Europe, esp. nothing right and safe for the US, sorry, but the "old" esc will def. give you a grin !!
(the setups are really good, try to run timing 2 and then vary with the frequencies (the lower, the more Power from the low end you´ll have, a good starting point is: 8 Khz with timing 2 (timing 3 makes the brakes a little softer)

BUT there are a few "mad" things:
the size, it IS really a big esc, and be careful when testing it for the first few runs, it might run straight where you wanna drive a curve, then the bec is interrupted because the motor does draw too much amp, then you HAVE TO use a battery for the receiver to be on the safe side (try to use a Li Ion, as they´re much more lightweight than anything other, but only if your receiver handles 7.2 V as an Input Voltage !!)

Cogging isn´t a roblem, even without a battery pack !!

I think you´ll enjoy it, as it is the best esc out for now, the new one has lower frequencies settings (giving more low end power and does have the better BEC circuit, but it is not clear when it will come !!)

(it IS really big money for it, but OK good technic might cost good money, if it is really the best !!)

How much did you pay for it ??

(just to compare it with our prices )

[NIC]

To vad:

I´m happy with you that you got so quick replies from Fine Design so that you can get started very soon and build your car and enjoy what many of us already do.
What car are you planing to convert and what set-ups did Chris recomend ?
Keep us up to date with you progress and good luck with building your car.

Welcome to BL-world :) !

NIC

[k_sw31]

Yeah, the only thing I am really concerned about the new esc will be its size, I'll probably be running mostly in a T3 or B4.

Thanks for the setup tips and advice!

I got it for 260$ (10$ cheaper than finedesign) at stormer hobbies.

https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?pn=HBM1120

[vad]

Nic,
Chris, from Fine Design, recommended I use the Hacker 10XL motor with Schulze 18.129FW. A company, WM Berg, in new york makes pinions for a 5mm shaft w/ 24 pitch to mount directly to the spur gear. I was having problems ordering so Chris was kind enough to help me out with the part numbers. I decided to go with 13T, 14T and 15T gears.

The system will be going into a kyosho landmax car but in time it will get moved into my stock 7.5. I will start the Brushless for onroad racing only, my wife and I both use the same cars at the races, so I figure this a great tool for her to learn with. I dont have to worry about tunning the eng and I can always lower the speed for her, either with less batteries or through the radio settings.

[Rex2342]

I haven't read all the post here.Sorry didn't have time to read 3500+ replies lol but I am wonder what is a good brushless motor and controller for an onroad pan car?I'm looking for something to handle 12 cells and put out crazy power for a speed machine.I've read very little on brushless motors so forgive the dumb question:rolleyes:

[k_sw31]

Well, there is no good brushless setup for pancar racing, but you do have some options interms of crazy speed setups.

You have the smaller motors, such as the hacker c40 series and the lehner basic series. Both of those are rated for under 12 cells, but I have heard of people using 12 cells on both motors, with out major problems. Even on 10 cells, you will fly in a pan car, let alone 8 cells. Swami hit 62 mph with a c40 and 12 cells in his big heavy rustler. I think with 8 cells alone properly geared it would be easy to hit over 60-70 in a pan car, if you could control it.

With any of those motors you could use a hacker master sport or competition controller. :)

[Rex2342]

Well it's not for racing it's just for fun and some good high speed pass's.Like I said I haven't read much on brushless setups yet.I looked at the Novac SS setup but heard the C50 was better and faster.10 cells would be fine too.I only said 12 because thats what the Competition controller says it can handle.The C40 says 6-7 cells though?Does it matter how many cells go to the motor?I thought it was just the speed control you had to worry about.I wouldn't want anything to go up in smoke.
http://www.hackerbrushless.com/cars/touring.shtml

[NIC]

To vad:

Are you gonna use 12 cells for the 10XL ? I think you said you were gonna use 12, cause you will have a hard time making room for more then 12 cells and the Hacker XL in there.

Why I ask this is because the 10XL will not rev much on 12 cells. Your topspeed will be pretty low since the motor will not spin much more over 20000 rpm under load. I think you should gear the car alot higher then the 15T pinion that you said you will use, because the motor will EASILY have the torque for it.
Maybe around twise the pinionsize that you are planing on using would give you exceptible speeds.

A quick calculation with your set-up gives the following speed:

12 cells = 14,4 V (high calculated) X 1578 rpm/V = 22723 rpm

22723/10,1:1(15T pinion) X 30 (9,6 x pi = tire size) X 6 ~ 40,5 km/h or around 25 mph

At 25 mph you will see ALOT of cars swooooosh by you.

I thought I would just tell you this. So you really know what speeds you will get. Maybe it isn´t a wrong motor for your car but your gearing is on the low side.

Thanks !

NIC

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by Rex2342
Well it's not for racing it's just for fun and some good high speed pass's.Like I said I haven't read much on brushless setups yet.I looked at the Novac SS setup but heard the C50 was better and faster.10 cells would be fine too.I only said 12 because thats what the Competition controller says it can handle.The C40 says 6-7 cells though?Does it matter how many cells go to the motor?I thought it was just the speed control you had to worry about.I wouldn't want anything to go up in smoke.
http://www.hackerbrushless.com/cars/touring.shtml

The C50 is intended for maxx size applications; its WAY to big and has WAY too much torque for a pan car.

I'm sure you could go easily over 7 cells on a C40, check this out...

http://swami-rc.com/speedrecord.htm

"The folks at Hacker recommended no more than 9 cells to be used with the Hacker C40 8s, but caution was thrown to the wind. I ran it with 12 cells for brief runs, and clocked the results using the Garmin eTrex GPS (rear shock tower)"

[vad]

Nic,
This set up has been used by Chris at Fine Design. I recommended I use the 14 or 15 tooth only with the 10XL. He has tried and tested the motor in a mugen XR, very simialar set up to the 7.5. I will be getting some pics along with the motor and speedo, and I will post them up here if it will be okay with Chris, that way we can see how the car is set up with the 10XL.

If it comes out that I need larger pinions, I'll just order some from WM Berg; however, I dont think it will be nessessary. Chris has used the 12 cell set up with the 10XL and Sculze controller and said the cars acceleration is much better than nitro, top speed is bit down, but for a person like me, who races on 1/10 size tracks with twists and turns the low end pull is what will be more important.

[vad]

Nic,
Can you post pics of the clutch bell set up you have on your brushless motor. Its a Ver good idea being able to change clutch bells so simply.

[vad]

Can someone explain the difference btwn the Hacker motors to me. What is the difference btwn the S,L, and XL other than the size of the cans. What do the 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14 designations represent. I see the motor charts on the haker website, but dont understand what all the numbers mean.

[NIC]

To vad:

The adaptor for using regular clutchbells is just to test the right gearing out.
I had it made to me by a friend since I had alot of clutchbells laying around from my nitrocar.

The performance of this construction isn´t good at all because of its weight. It weighs about 30 grams :eek:, if it doesn´t sound much, putting it directly on the motorshaft really limits the motors performance by a huge amount. Both the acceleration and the breaking are greatly reduced because of it. Not that the car had bad acceleration or weak breaks with it but you should know how much of a differens it made having a piniongear that weighs only around 10 grams.

The car in the movie uses this adaptor and was 320-330 grams heavier then it is now so the performance of it has been greatly improved since then.
I suggest you go with the pinions that Chris could get you (ask him about larger sizes though then 15T) and don´t bother about your clutchbells, they are a thing of the past now :D ;).

Thanks !

NIC

[vad]

Nic,
I asked Chris about going to larger clutch bells, but he recommended I not go with it, saying the larger bell like 17 or 18 will make the motor work harder, creating more heat which isnt good for motor or speedo. I says the better bet will be let the motor rev into its power range with the lower gears. So in the end I asked him to order me 4 pinions 13, 14, 15, 16.

I mainly run on a 1/10 scale size track, small for 1/8 scales but the 1/8 scale buggies set lap records when compared to the electric buggies or 4wd ele buggies. So the 1/8 has room to move but not too much. I figure the lower gears will be great for the smaller track and the larger gear for open 1/8 scale tracks.

[cburk]

I have a question about using brushless for offroad. I currently haven't tested any of the novak brushless setups but I have talked some guys in my area that are saying that the novak system doesn't have enough torque for offroad? Does this sound right? You can check out our track here www.planetrcraceway.com

It is a large indoor hard pack clay track with a lot of jumps. I was seriously considering buying a brushless setup for practice and racing but I want to make sure I have enough torque to keep up with the other stock and mod trucks. I race a Losi XXX-T and XXX buggy.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Cburk:D

[I8A4RE]

Hi guys, with Rumrunners doing their own brushless thing (which I haven't heard anything about yet) where is a good place to get Lehner motors. I'll prolly do the Hacker Master Comp from Stormer, any problems with these two brands?

[k_sw31]

Right now finedesign has em on sale for 110$ :)

http://finedesignrc.com/cars-trucks.asp

cburk- From what I have heard, the novak has plenty of torque for off road, you should be fine. :)

[Mr. Constructor]

To Vad:

believe me (as i did some conversions from nitro to electric)
you will need a motor with min. 2700 rpm per Volt, better same as nic, a 3300 RPM per Volt on 12 cells, over this it is very hard getting the power to the street without damaging that much parts, even with an 8th construction !!!
(look at the figures from Nic: with doubled RPM you´ll reach a good speed, and beeing able to go beyond the nitro range (nitro goes "only" up to 44.000 Rpm per min, use this a base for your calculations, then divide it through 13 (Volt) then you´ll have a good setup, then go a little higher than this, to have some extra power over the Nitros and youre done, THEN AND ONLY THEN you could use the ame pinions (12-15) as the nitros will do, please believe me, the power is enough, when you choose a Hacker B50 S (an L is only neccecary when going offroad with huge trucks, then you have to choose the same rpm, but lower wind, use the tables from Hacker, or ask us if we could find a excellent solution, no problem !!

To cburk:

if you plan on running the Car with the same power than a good 10T normal, but with better torque, then choose Novak, but you´ll be "only" able to run 6 cells best!!(OK 7 is posible, but who solders a 7 cell pack, when 6 cells have enough power)
If the Car is heavier than 1.5kg (sorry no imp. sizes) choose a basic 5300 with the hacker Sport or a Schulze esc, when going hacker, plan on a receiver abttery, as the "older" models (new one not out yet) will need a receiver pack, their BEC isn´t that good, even with 12 cells, there isn´t enough "juice" for your receiver !!

[cburk]

Thanks for the input! I appreciate it:)

Cburk

[vad]

Mr. Constuctor and Nic,

I hope you guys are wrong with the calculations beacuse if you guys are right, I might have to buy another motor, maybe the 9L or 10L, this by going with the charts for the motor. Its just strange, why would a guy doing this for 20 yrs of racing recommend the wrong motor for the application. He also tried it and said it worked out for him. Guess I will have to build it and see. I am hoping the motor will make it in today, so I can be certian its the 10XL and nothing else.

[Cold Fusion]

I just bought an 8xl for my axis and need to know what to gear it. I'm thinking about using 10 cells.

[vad]

Mr. Constructor,

Just so I understand, You recommend a motor which will turn as many RPM as a buggy motor. Let say 38000-40000 RPM and finding out RPM per cell im looking around 2900-3100. So looking at the motors of choice will be the best bet will be Hacker 8L (3000 rpm/v) or 9L (2700 rpm/v), is this correct.

If you can explain one thing to me, what are the differences btwn the S,L, XL. There are motors in each group which will turn the similar number or rpm/v; however, thery have different winds. How does that effect the motors performance, or what do the winds mean, more pull, more rpm, what does it do to the batteries (draw more power from the cells?)

Maybe if I tell you what Im looking for you can help me narrow the choices down. As you know the controller Im getting is the Schulze 18.129FW. Run time about 8 to 10 mins and power of a OS RZ-V01B or Rex P5, with ofcourse a bit more on tap when requires, I plan on using it onroad and offroad in a buggy. Im not looking for all out top end speed, I dont need a motor which will make the car travel at 60mph, but keep up or out run 1/8 scale buggies on and offroad. In 1/8 scale there are too many choices of motors to choice, some offer lots of low end with no top, then there are top end only motors like the C5 or MS ev5, I am looking for a good middle ground. Kind of like a cross btwn a Rex P5 and WS7. Hope this gives you and idea of what Im looking for.

[vad]

[Cold Fusion]

I have a 1/8 electric buggy for sale here. http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144247

[Mr. Constructor]

To Vad:

The best choice is getting close to the nitros as i said, then using a slightly higher rpm, that will be excellent, the 3100 rpm per volt sounds good to me, no problems with that.
the differences are :
S has the smallest size in lenght, but offers more rpm / Volt than any other B 50, but torque is also very low, the differnece between the others is the lenght of the can and thus leading to better torque output, but the rpm´s will go down, your right for archieving the same rpm between a S and a L version, you´ll have to go lower with the winds in the L version. it´s that simple !!
(but choosing the right for your 8th application isn´t that easy, i would use the L version, then a 7 Turns for really good speed, or better for your application, the 8turns, you´ll definetely amazed by the speed AND toque these motors hav, but be shure to order the 5mm shaft, as the smaller will not transfer the power that good, so you´ll need 5mm pinions, be shure to use 12-15 teeths, then you´ll have plenty of room, my 1. 8th conversion has had a 2700 RPM/V and was geared 10:1 (or around, and it goes really well, see the vids on www.coldfusionracing.com/8ths then choose members rides , or ask cold fusion for advice !!

You´ll really need these RPM, believe me, i have done many conversions now, on every scale, on every system, and various esc/motor combos !!
(trust me !!)

good luck, if anything is questionable, ask me, no problem !!
see ya

[vad]

Mr. Constructor,
thanks for the explination, but one more thing how do the different size cans or different winds effect battery usage, does less winds offer more or less run time, or winds has no effect on rum time. Is it correct to say a hot motor and speedo drain more battery power?

I was looking on some web site that the 8L is for 6 to 10 cells, is that correct or should I not pay any attention to those figures because all the B50s can easily take 12 cells?

[Mr. Constructor]

To Vad:

That is not that easy, the motor itself has to fit to the car, normally you will say a 9 Turns S type wil draw LESS Amp than the same RPM Motor in L type (should be a B50 6L)
as the torque goes up and the same RPM are kept, the power consumption HAS to go up, but as you might want reduced rpm and higher torque, then maybe a hacker B 50 9S and a Hacker B 50 8XL will have almost the same Consumption, but the S version punches out his power through RPM (mostly) and the XL mostly through the torque, so in this case both will draw the same (almost) Amp under same Voltage. the XL will be even better, you could gear it up very hard , as the torque is there to push it further, but it weights more, so this might become a thinking point too.
As you see, it is not that easy to get the best setup, there are many other factors, such as size, bore holes, place to mount, heat dissipation, kable length, motor mounting space (for getting a better grab on it when it has to be removed) . . . .

Most points are not that spectaciular, but some of them really had to be thinked over !!

for your project (it´s not really that interesting if the weight is greatly reduced by carbon or not !!)
Best chioce: Hacker B 50 8L, that is a very good combination of all points !!
(and will fit in most 8ths without having too much new built)

As for the cells, calculate it out, use 1.1 volt per cell, if the rpm hits 70.000 there should be taken care !!
(so only the first 2 of the B50 S series will not be a good choice of running 12 cells (that doesn´t mean you couldn´t do it, but then the safety of the electronics and the motor and at least the whole car are not guaranteed!!!)

have you already choosen a esc ??
(look at the schulze 12.97 or the 12.129 or even the hacker master ones (the comp. is recommended, as the cars weight will put the amp up !! but then only with a receiver pack for safety reasons, the bec is too weacky)

[vad]

Mr. Contructor,
I have a Schulze 18.129FW controller coming in with the 10XL. I might end up getting another motor for the higher speeds and stick to that. Ill see if I can get it changed out for a 8L. The 8L seems like it would be the better choice for fit and what I am looking for out of motor performance.

[Mr. Constructor]

To Vad:

Did you really need the 18.197 FW ??

Not really, as it goes up to 18 cells and does NOT have any BEC !!

try to change to a 12.97 (maybe FW also) it is OK to use the BEC up to 12 cells, but you could use this esc either with 18 cells, but then WITHOUT BEC, so it is much more versatlile than the other, a BEC system is normally NOT needed, but if you wanna, you could use it, in the 18.xxx you HAVE TO, you cannot choose !!

This esc will hold the power, my esc is a kontronik with 70 A, and it only needed a small cooling unit around it, so the 97 A version will hold the power, IF YOU GEAR IT RIGHT !!! (that´s really important for getting the best power out of your material !!)

re-think that for a while, it might safe you huge money, as the 18.xxx is a lot more exp. than the 12.xxx and the same with the motor too !!

This combination of motor and esc isn´t that good chioce, a too slow motor on a very too high powered esc (OK the smaller 12.97 will get a little more hot, but that´s the gearings point !!)

Check this out, ask for it, if anything was send to you so far !!

[Mr. Constructor]

to refresh this a little, calculate the 97 amps by the 1.1 volt per cell, then you´ll have a great power of up to 1280.4 Watts, that is enough for even a E MAXX with 2 BL Motors, so the esc will be the hardest part to destroy (if (and again) the gearing is right)

AND one thing: Never ever abattery like the GP 3300´s will deliver 97 A !!!
(not even for 5 sec. it will be destroyed first !! (the internal heat switch or gas switch will shut it down, and even if it could withstand this for a while, the batterys will only last a few runs, then brake down, so you see, the "slowing down part" is ONLY the battery !!

Good Luck, and have fun with your project !!

[Miha]

Good GP3300 can deliver 200 Amps.

Link (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=156563&perpage=15&pagenumber=2)

[yf22k]

anyone know where i can buy a 1920 series motor? Finedesign doesn't sell them yet and rumrunners isn't selling lehner anymore like I8A4RE stated.

[k_sw31]

Today my hacker competition arrived.

I have had a lot of homework so it has not yet been setup. Tomorrow I should be able to get it up and running, but I need some help.

I will be running it in a T3 with 6 cells and a basic 5300, in the standard forward/brake setting.

I would like to know which timing mode, Switching Frequency and current limit that is best for the basic.

Thanks

[vad]

Mr. Constructor,

I found out a few things about why the 10XL will be a good choice. As you say there is plenty of Torque with the 10XL and the motor will not be working too hard thus keeping the temp down.

I played with the RCCA gear calculator to figure out what different combinations of ratios will do with different RPM ranges, and then it occured to me that, in offroad racing I don't recall the last time I let the eng wind out full for more than 2 to 3 sec, Most of the racing Im involved in is burst, brake, burst brake, so I dont see the need for the high RPM eng. In offroad guys are mostly looking for more torque, many racers say there isn't enough pull with the motors.

If I am low on top end Ill get the larger gear, (might order a 18T and 20T gear for larger tracks or just crazy speed runs) just like Nic said. Good thing with the kyosho car is that I have 3 choices of center gears to go with 44T (plastic gear), 46T, and 48T. Might have to find a company to make the 44T out of hardened steel.

Once this motor gets in Ill put it together and see how it works out. Good thing is a neighboor of mine has a Hot body 1/8 scale with Rex P5 eng so I have a head to head car to run against.