Post your race results (RFFS-100) racing

[Dave Robelen]

Hi All,
The race is on! In breezy weather with all useful excuses the little Brownie posted a 1:26 doing 10 laps around a 50' course from a flying start. My daughter and I agreed that I probably flew about 1.25 X the course as I weaved around, but, hey, it's a start! And like the NASCAR qualifying runs, I have 1st place until someone does better.
The stats are: Power E-Charger motor geared 7-1 w/clock gears, 5-4 carved prop. One Li-Poly 170 mah cell, internal RFFS-100 actuators. The span is 14.3", the area about 40 sq. in. AUW is 26 grams. The wing is single surface 1/32" sheet with a french curve airfoil bent in. Picture of model follows.
Regards, Dave

[Dave Robelen]

Hi All,
I finally got a complete run in in calm conditions with the Brownie. 1:15 flying 10 sloppy laps. That works out to only about 14 mph, but it sure felt faster in a close are! Come on guys, lets get some other planes posted.
Cheers, Dave

[FLB]

Hi Dave,

Courageous first attempt ;) I hope I will be able to do so in a near future.

Unfortunately, I have no RFFS planes ready for this challenge. In fact, no RFFS planes at all. :D

I'm still working on my Dewoitine D-27 project. But the weight problem is so essential that it slows me. At the moment, I'm searching the best solution (lightest) for the landing gear-support wing struts (?). If you don't mind, I will post this week-end some pictures of my virtual D-27 model...
First I wanted to present the project finished but there is so much to learn with this tiny scale that I will let people who want participate give their opinions and suggestions via the forum.
Having not too much time, I ask people to be patient.

Regards

Frederic

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Folks,
This thread is not quite turning out like I expectd. There are so many results that the data is getting overwhelming ;)
Be that as it may, I ran the little P-Nut around a 50' course for ten laps and got a time of 52.5 sec. Based on my messy turns, that appeared to work out to near 25 mph. Perhaps not blazing, but the breeze is not too much of an issue flying this model.
Once again, the drive is a KP-00 motor from DWE fitted with 6-1 gears. The prop shaft is 1mm wire running in ball bearings from Dave Lewis, and the prop is a 5 X 4. Check the thread more "RFFS-100 fun" for a picture of the model. Y'all put up some poles and post a few times so we can see what a typical speed is for some of the sub-ounce birds.
Cheers, Dave

[Fwilly]

What do you use for your markers? I have never pylon raced and have never seen one. As soon as the wind stops (could be a while) I will try it out.

[Dave Robelen]

Hi,
Actually, one of my "pylons" was a shovel stuck in the ground vertically with a surveyors ribbon tied to it. The other marker was length of aluminum pipe stuck in the ground with another ribbon on the top. My daughter who punches thewatch and I stand about in the middle of these two poles set 50 apart, and back off to one side. The run is begun by flying full speed across an imaginary line in front of the timer, and the time is stopped after ten laps when the model crosses the same line.
A hint-- low pylons are more difficult to hit in the turns. You don't need to know why I feel that way ;)
Cheers, Dave

[SnoJetter]

Ok, novice question here: what's RFFS, RFFS-100? I haven't got it, but these micro planes look like fun - maybe I oughta give it a try!

Kyle Sands <>< Huntley, MN

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Kyle,
The RFS-100 is a complete airborne control package that includes two magnetic proportional "servos". The circuit board also includes an ESC that can control the small motors we commonly use. The whole works weighs just a bit over 3 grams, and as you might have noticed, it will fit in some mighty small models. The system is marketed by Dynamic Web Enterprises (www.slowfly.com) (I think that is the right address) Help me Dan?
Another popular approach to using this system is to fit it into one of a variety of ready made foam models that were originally sold for free flight. The DWE website shows at least one such conversion.
Regards, Dave

[FLB]

http://www.smallrc.com/dwehtml/iemicro.cfm

FLB

[Fwilly]

I'll give it a try if the wind will die down. Times probably wont be as good as yours since all the radio gear is mounted on a stick fuselage creating drag. Plus my piloting will probably be pretty sloppy.

heres a link to a thread with a pic of the plane I will make my attemt with (at the bottom of the page)

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=96172

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Fwilly,
A neat model. I have been moving towards an aileron setup myself now that the door is opening to a more aerobatic flight regime. For myaelf, I am not so much interested in who is the "winner" at this point, but I would like to get some idea of the flying speed of a variety of thse little micro models. This information might point us toward some useful design solutions.
Take care, Dave

[dhurd]

As soon as I get another one of my pylon racers ready to fly I will attempt to post some times myself. I will have to try and find a place to do so though now that winter seems to have set in here in Buffalo. BTW Dave it's www.smallrc.com. Slowfly is my dad's company that also sells the RFFS-100 but we offer a bit more in the line of micro stuff. ;)

Dan

[Fwilly]

well, I only got 1 min 35sec. flying was very sloppy and I made rather large circuits. It was very fun even if the time was poor. Until we get more people posting times I've got second:D . I bet a converted E charger would get great times.

Do you think a kpoo with a U80 would work better on this plane. It dosen't seem to have much power with the direct drive. I lost lots of altitude when I tried to make sharp turns so I just made more circular laps instead of a pylon course.

Go slow turn left:)

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Fwilly,
Fun is the name of the game. I'me glad it's woking that way for you too. Getting thrust from these small motors just about always involves gearing. The motor has to really wind up to make power, and the props that allow that in direct drive just do not have enough blade to do the job. The KP-00 with a U-80 would be a good next step. I am using the motor from the KP-00 set combined with a 10T pinion (Kenway) driving a 60T DIDEL gear (DWE). My prop shaft is 1mm wire running in two 1mm ball bearings (Dave Lewis) that are stuck in a plastic tube. This lets me drive a 5-4 prop at good rpm's and have a bunch of thrust. GWS carries several props in this range that ought to be really the way to go. I am stubborn (cheap too) and cut mine from a chunk of pine.
Go fast, turn left, Dave

[Dave Robelen]

OOPS, WE BLEW IT!
It very much appears that the 52.5 sec time I posted was the result of running 9 laps and calling it 10. Flying the same course today with the same model and setup, my best time is around 61 seconds. Not shabby, but not supersonic either. Do I get a 25 point penalty or what?
Cheers, Dave

[FLB]

Hi Dave,

Seems that you have a lot of fun. Sad that we can't view some in flight pictures. As soon as I can I will participate. But the snow is already there and I think I will have to find a nice hangar to do that indoor ;)

Regards

Frédéric

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Gang,
The little P-Nut rides again! With a fresh wing cut from foam, and a different prop, it turned an amazing 50.3 sec for a whole 10 laps. I did run a tight course, and there was little wasted room around the pylons, but no cuts (really). The little sucker was moving so fast that I was able to stay banked for the entire run, just yank the stick for the turns. This wing is marvelous. Even in a stiff breeze, it runs like it is on rails. The drag reduction was obvious, but the low end is still respectable. The airfoil is the MA409, a rather thin undercambered section recomended by Matt Keenon. The new prop is a 5 x 4.5, but the area is moved closer to the hub with narrow tips. Even the original wing moved better with this prop. The foam wing only cost me 1.0 gram extra weight.
The picture shows the parts that I have run through playing with this little jewel. One wing with the rounded tips is simply a 1/32" curved sheet. The other wing with rounded tips is the same layout on top, but the bottom has a fill in sheet on the front third ala Roadkill models (no big deal in flight). The wing with the pointed tips and elliptical curves is built like the original with curved 1/32" sheet. This one was a blast in flight. Fairly fast, but the model would start oscillations in yaw just like it was wagging it's tail (set it aside). The original prop is a 5-4 of fairly conventional shape, and runs quite decently. The props with the wide hub and skinny tips are 5-4.5, and really do pull better at top speed. So much to learn, so little time:)

[FLB]

Hi Dave,

Amazing work... Seems that the DRRRT :D (Dave Robelen Reno Racing Team) works hard to stay in the pole position. What's nice with this tiny scale is the easiness with which you can do some experimentations... You master this hobby.

Regards

Frédéric

[Dave Robelen]

Hello Frederick,
Thanks for the nice words. I have always had a soft spot for the tiny models. What has been lacking was the ability to fly and manuever in something other than calm condtions, or fly more than one flight on a single charge. With the RFFS-100, and now Li-Poly cells, things have changed dramatically.
While I have been playing "race plane", I could not help but note that now I have a 3-channel micro model that has the ability to fly in breezy conditions, and perform smooth manuevers without struggling. When I played with the numbers, the "scale speed" of the P-Nut compares with 200 mph of an 8' long jet model. That's moving!
Cheers, Dave

[Fwilly]

I have been working on mine as well. I added the kpoo and a U80. At first it would just roll over into the ground right out of my hand. Finally I figured out I could launch it at 1/4-1/2 throttle and let it build up as much speed as posible at that throttle before adding full throttle. speed and verticle is definetly better. It will now loop but rolls are now faster going with the motor torque and slower against it. I am going to spend some time practicing going around pylons before I drag somone out to the pasture to time me. Don't worry, I think your 50 sec time will be safe from me:D .

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Fwilly,
It's good to hear you are making progress. A large part of my motive for playing "race plane" is that it has given me something measurable to work with while I make an effort to get the most out of a plane. I see a very bright future in micro aerobatics wih the gear that is becoming available, and of course, the scale models have more and more options.
Take care, Dave

[Fwilly]

I just added vertical fins on the wing tips like on the Flap Jack. I put them on top of the tips so that they flatten out the airfoil. It now has an undercambered airfoil at the center that flattens completly out at the tips. Do you think this is a good idea? Hopefully I will be able to test it out tomorow morning. I plan on trying to build a micro Tiny or Mini Flash for aerobatics as soon as I can afford to send my rffs in for the upgrade. What kind of current does your 6:1 kpoo draw?
Thanks
Mike

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Mike,
The idea of flattening part of the airfoil will increase the minimum speed. Hard to say how much. In the same way that I went through a batch of wings finding some "goodies", you will find that time in the air is the final test. I used the fins on the Flap Jack to modify the tip vortex flow at high lift when upright, and this gave more dihedral effect in loops, landings, etc.
I use props on my KP-00 that keep the static current at no more than 1.0 amp. With my prent speedster, this drops to not much more than 500 mah in flight.
Dave

[Fwilly]

I couldn't tell if there was any speed diference because I was fighting a little wind but the flattened part of the air foil allowed the wings to flex and bind the ailerons a little so I took the tips off. I'm going to keep an eye out for a peanut scale AT6 or P51 next time I go to the hobby shop. Wish someone made a peanut scale Dago Red kit.

[Dave Robelen]

Hi Mike,
Actually, there is a decent peanut scale kit of the P-51. It is made by Peck-Polymers, and is strictly "stick and tissue". If you really want a sub-micro P-51 (even a Dago Red), why not scale the Micro Mustang down to about 35 sq. in. The structure is already set up for R/C, and all I would change is the wing, where I would go to a curved 1/32" sheet ala Brownie, etc. You could even play with the shapes and "morph" it into a Dago Red.
Take care, Dave

[Fwilly]

Sounds like a good idea. Especially since I crashed my plane today. It could be fixed but I only built it to see if I could get the ailerons to work. I need to get some more 1/32 balsa.

[accipiter]

Hi Dave
When you cut your cors with this foil how thick did you leave the trailing edge. I just cut some but left the thickness of th e .0625 wire that I glued to the template as the offcut support. Do ya think it necessary to sand to a fine edge. By the way, I will never become complacent with my building skills as long as your at it.
TNX
Robert

[Dave Robelen]

Hello Robert,
I made my templates about 1/64" thick on the top and bottom, with a 1/16 run-in strip. This resulted in a trailing edge a little less than 1/16" thick. By the time I had smoothed the rough surface the trailing edge was about 1/32" thick. This is plenty thin for a raw foam wing. At the low Reynolds numbers these wings are operating, the boundary layer is probably plenty thick anyhow, but without measurements I shoot for reasonably close to the original section. The added thickness of my templates was to account for my wire undercutting just a bit. I believe my panels came out pretty much the correct thickness when all was done.
Regards, Dave