A123 Systems, radical new Lithium Ion technology

PeterV · #1 07-13-2006, 10:51 AM

Exciting stuff from www.a123systems.com. See for yourself...

Using a unique, patented, revolutionary lithium-ion chemistry developed at A123Systems, HypersonicTM packs provide high performance and abuse-tolerance unmatched by any other battery chemistry.

With its ultra low-impedance design and high power capability, HypersonicTM offers high performance and long cycle life characteristics in a robust, safe package.

HypersonicTM packs can also be connected together to create custom configurations for almost any electric propulsion application.

Experience a new level of battery performance in R/C vehicles with A123 Racing HypersonicTM Lithium Ion.

World's quickest electric drag bike, A123-powered. Quarter mile time: 9.08 seconds at 160MPH, 0-60MPH in 1.5 seconds

PeterV · #2 07-13-2006, 11:01 AM

The HypersonicTurboTM system has all the features and benefits of the HypersonicTM products with the flexibility of adjustable output voltage and constant power output for your entire run.

The adjustable output gives you the ability to “tune” your battery pack to your exact need, whether it’s 7.2V or 8.4V all the way up to 10.8V!

While the constant output allows your vehicle to perform at its best for the entire run, start to finish, with no voltage sag as the battery is depleted.

PeterV · #3 07-13-2006, 11:09 AM

Check out these videos. If you ever wanted to see what happens when you put a nail through a Li-Ion cell, now's your chance. The standard cell goes off like a roman candle; the A123 cell doesn't. There's also a vid of the A123 drag bike doing a burnout.

http://www.rccaraction.com/video/nai...tionLi-ion.wmv

http://www.rccaraction.com/video/Race6-28-06.mpg

OutFrontFrames · #4 07-13-2006, 11:19 AM

The nail test is cool..
The burnout video was very cool.. Instant smoke, very impressive.. I want to see it run down the 1320..
as for the batteries, these things look very promising.. Isn't amazing how much faster electric technology moves than nitro..

rc10mike · #5 07-13-2006, 11:22 AM

It just keeps getting better..

Holeshot101 · #6 07-13-2006, 11:34 AM

Pretty cool, I just may get an electric if these cells don't cost a ton de dinero (of money). I'm a gringo I know.

PeterV · #7 07-13-2006, 12:13 PM

Did you guys notice the "boost box?" You can hook it up to the 6.6v pack and just dial it up to 7.2, 8.4, 9.6 or 10.8 volts. Pretty wild.

OutFrontFrames · #8 07-13-2006, 12:22 PM

wow... I see nitro driven companies making an attempt to keep up with electric technology. I dont know how they are going to attempt it but eventually they are going to have to do something.

skylineTT · #9 07-13-2006, 12:47 PM

how much?

captain america · #10 07-13-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutFrontFrames

wow... I see nitro driven companies making an attempt to keep up with electric technology. I dont know how they are going to attempt it but eventually they are going to have to do something.

To be honest, nitro still has one, dominating advantage over electric: the ability to run continuously with only the need to make quick pitstops for fuel. With electric, they would need to be able to trump that advantage with power cells that can go, say, a full 45 minutes or an hour without needing to recharge or change the battery, and they simply aren't there... Yet.

OutFrontFrames · #11 07-13-2006, 01:47 PM

no but battery changes can be done on some cars within the time it would take to refuel. In the old days of velodrome racing (nascar style) the cars were equipped with quck change battery holders. Within seconds the battery could be replaced and the car back on its way. If runtime is what your looking for, go check out some of the batteries used in heli applications.
So simply put the electrics can trump the nitro if need be. There just hasnt been a need to reintroduce that quick change technology again...... yet...

ElectricThunder · #12 07-13-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain america

To be honest, nitro still has one, dominating advantage over electric: the ability to run continuously with only the need to make quick pitstops for fuel. With electric, they would need to be able to trump that advantage with power cells that can go, say, a full 45 minutes or an hour without needing to recharge or change the battery, and they simply aren't there... Yet.

There are already people who can get 45 minutes to an hour with high capacity (8000-12000mah) lipos and a brushless systems. Of course....that costs money, and the packs take about 1-2 hours to charge depending on how high your charger's charge rate goes.

I've seen these cells before. People in the hobby have been tearing apart dewalt tools for them I think (the brand new ones they just introduced; the 32v line). It's nice that they're turning their attention towards our hobby though (A123systems). 15 minute charge times is nice (I think it must be at a certain temp. though).

That regulator box is neat! Just buy one 4600 pack, and you can adjust your voltage; no need for multiple batteries. That's pretty sweet.

Smib · #13 07-13-2006, 02:12 PM

Oops, bad info. I like these, I just wish I could afford them.

ElectricThunder · #14 07-13-2006, 02:15 PM

I think these cells are relatively cheap compared to other li-ion and li-po cells though. I think 10 cells sold for about 130 bucks (the dewalt packs). The packs just shown have anywhere from 2-4 cells total in the pack. Who knows how pricey the charger/voltage box-a-ma-jig will be though....

OutFrontFrames · #15 07-13-2006, 02:29 PM

I know that Milwaukee tools use Li-Moli ( something like that) cells that people have been using in e-heli's..

captain america · #16 07-13-2006, 02:34 PM

Indeed. I think Maxamps are the ones producing the 8000-12000mah batteries. Expensive, yes, but not nearly as much as the 4800mah Lipo from Orion. I've heard of some people being forced to run those alongside the nitros at their clubs--and win against the nitros.

I think there's another big factor holding back the potential of electric racing: race duration. When I was racing electrics some 15-16 years ago, the race heats were 4 minutes. I think now they're 5, and maybe 6 at some clubs. It would certainly be nice if the races could last a little longer than it takes me to drink a glass of water. Supposedly this move to longer races has been met with a great deal of opposition, but on the whole I think more time on track is a better thing.

Also, if races are made to last longer because of longer-lasting batteries, then the cars themselves will have to undergo changes too; they will no doubt be designed stronger to last through longer races, and personally I'd LOVE to see the concept of quick-change batteries developed even further; a pit-stop of some sort could definitely make the racing interesting.

In the end, the only limits in electric are the ones we set for ourselves.

OutFrontFrames · #17 07-13-2006, 02:46 PM

1/12th scale is 8 minutes in most places and we have went as long as 12 minutes at times. I know thats only a drop in the bucket for some but it seems like a long time when your driving a slot car with no pin.

ElectricThunder · #18 07-13-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutFrontFrames

I know that Milwaukee tools use Li-Moli ( something like that) cells that people have been using in e-heli's..

Yes, those are the 28v packs that miluakee uses (which people have been tearing apart also....

).

I'd rather go with these cells. They seem to bring some serious stuff to the table. And 15 minute charge times are unreal. (I REALLY like that voltage box too...that's just really neat)

MacII · #19 07-13-2006, 04:58 PM

A tiny magic box that can turn a 6.6v pack into a 10.8v pack?

I don't think so...

We were sceptical too, but it's actually common technology according to A123. We just haven't seen it in RC before because sub-Cs can't handle the load. --Pete

OutFrontFrames · #20 07-13-2006, 05:06 PM

Transformer possibly?
Maybe it is more than meets the eye..

MacII · #21 07-13-2006, 05:11 PM

At the expense of what? Does it step up voltage but cost you capacity?

I LOVE new tech, I run FMA LiPo's in a Psycho brushless Monster now...this all just seems a little too good to be true - hope I'm wrong...

No answers on their web site, yet, hopefully some coming...

DM

Skribble · #22 07-13-2006, 06:39 PM

Wow. Didn't expect Lithium Ion batteries to appear already.

cart213 · #23 07-13-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricThunder

Yes, those are the 28v packs that miluakee uses (which people have been tearing apart also....

).

I'd rather go with these cells. They seem to bring some serious stuff to the table. And 15 minute charge times are unreal. (I REALLY like that voltage box too...that's just really neat)

People like me.

I love my Emolis. They're much more powerful than my IB3800's. Top speed of my MT2 increased from 51 mph with the IB's to 60 mph with the Emolis. But these A123 batteries look amazing! I was wondering how the voltage problem would be addressed, but it looks like they've solved it! Now if only the price will be reasonable. (Fingers crossed.)

rc10mike · #24 07-13-2006, 09:34 PM

So it looks as if you NEED the box to make the 6.6 packs 7.2 volts... Why do they only show the 7.2 packs WITH the box?

MattHiggins · #25 07-13-2006, 10:18 PM

You don't need the box. Bashers will want it, but you won't need it for racing at most tracks. I run 4-cell oval (4.8V) and last summer I ran only five cells in off-road (6V). The current IFMAR Electric Off-road World champion won with only five cells. There is also serious talk about dropping voltage for touring car racing.